Gentlemen, Knowing what we do about this "Regime" in the WH, I would say that the Ban is a done deal. If the WH can't disarm the U.S.(and the amount of pvt. weapons in the U.S. is astronomical! Banning any firearms in this country would quite literally lead to a revolt or revolution, I will let you imagine how bad it could get!), then they will go after the ammunition. Now I am no Conspiracy wonk, but where is all the ammo? Some of it has come back, albeit at much higher prices, but where is all the 22LR? The manufacturers say they are running full tilt and have been doing so for the last 2 years and still we don't see much, if any. You can't use a weapon if you have nothing to load into it. Where is all of it, and why?
Oh, and someone asked if the BATFE ban would affect the Military. Short answer; NO. The Military gets what it wants, as a rule of thumb. And the ARMY is transitioning to a new, lead free round. M855A1, I believe. Sintered bronze bullet, IIRC. So the Military demand for M855 will drop to nothing soon.
Hold tight, Guys. This next year and a half will see attempts to destroy the Union from the inside out, it seems. OK, rant off.

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LEO, Instr, Armorer, Gov's 20

With reference to the Winchester .357 AP.

I still have 1/2 a box. When it first came out I tried it in a 6" bbl. It would not penetrate a wheel rim, just left a dent, and it barely made it through one side of a pick-up bed. Didn't try it on a bare engine block though. If the engine was in a vehicle the projectile wouldn't make it to the block. I was disappointed after all the hype.

1000 rd case - 5.56 PMC X-TAC M855 62 grain Green Tip FMJ 5.56K LAP Ammo | SGAmmo.com

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M&P15 for me! U.S. Army
Steve

Unacceptable

Further, any ambivalence from the gun-owning community is unacceptable regardless of your excuses.


I believe that 855 is far from ideal ammo, but it is relaible and inexpensive enough to suit many of my needs and I buy it over its closest substitute, the imported steel case garbage. However, we are seeing a net effect where the entire market is being disrupted by panicking individuals, me-toos, and profit driven speculators that reaches the entire .223/5.56 market. By the virtue of chicken little gun market economics, ALL 5.56/.223 is selling out, and will remain so like .22LR has done the past few years......

I wouldn't pay over 35 cents a round for any M855 or SS109, impending ban or not.

I don't see anywhere online or locally 5.56 or .223 selling out. The xm855 can still be had locally where I live.

Except it is already being sold for over $1.00/rd on Gunbroker. There is a profit incentive to buy low and sell high, particularly when it actually becomes banned.

The only stuff I can find (online/retail meaning not on auction sites) is the PMC. All the Federal stuff is sold out everywhere. I just spent 20 minutes looking and every place I found is sold out of Federal.

It is still quite plentiful on Gunbroker and the prices have already fallen back but eventually the supply will dry up and the price will rise.

Tell an American man he can't have something and he will want it that much more.

As long as you are fine with not having any of the ammo, thats fine. If the ban goes thru which looking at the way it was worded, it looks to be a done deal, you won't ever see that ammo for that price again.

Independence Ammo 5.56x45mm NATO 55 Grain M193 Full Metal Jacket Boat

Check on cabelas. They have tons of federal 5.56 and other brands of it. Midway USA, I could name a dozen more places.

Ammo will never be a collectable for me.

I shoot it.

If it's too expensive I buy something else.

I've fired plenty of Black Talons and various types of vintage .38spl.

It ain't banned yet and I'm gonna choot it.

This thread is about SS109 (XM855), not XM193.

I have about 250 rounds of 855 that I will consider trading for a smalll truck. Prefer 2012 or newer with trailer hitch and boat. May consider land or condo depending on location, of course.

Yes. I know that. I was replying to a member that said all .223& 5.56 was selling out. Read my quoted posts.

Originally Posted by DanP7 

Unacceptable

Further, any ambivalence from the gun-owning community is unacceptable regardless of your excuses.


I believe that 855 is far from ideal ammo, but it is relaible and inexpensive enough to suit many of my needs and I buy it over its closest substitute, the imported steel case garbage. However, we are seeing a net effect where the entire market is being disrupted by panicking individuals, me-toos, and profit driven speculators that reaches the entire .223/5.56 market. By the virtue of chicken little gun market economics, ALL 5.56/.223 is selling out, and will remain so like .22LR has done the past few years......

There has obviously been a run on all popular .223 and 5.56.
SGAmmo is my ammo candy store. They are out across the board.

223 / 5.56mm | SGAmmo.com

you need to contact your US Representative and have him sign Bob Goodlattes letter to the ATF

you should also email the BATFE and express your opinion on the issues

Send them to this email address: [email protected]

I did have this thought: All the manufactures have to do to keep this round on the market is leave the small steel penetrator out and make sure the bullet is all lead and copper jacket. Problem solved! And the round sans the penetrator will probably be more accurate, it's a known fact that the penetrator quite often wasn't seated well, and being a little off center, caused bullet wobble causing degraded accuracy. maybe call the new round XM855B or something like that.
Yes I know it is deplorable what that rouge agency, the BATFE is doing. It is basically illegal, but so is a lot of what this Regime in Washington is doing. And seems like no one cares to or can do anything about it. Where are the men like our Founding Fathers, 'cause Lord we need 'em. We are in GRAVE danger of losing our Republic.

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LEO, Instr, Armorer, Gov's 20

I made my weekly range trip yesterday afternoon. On the way back I stop at three stores to visit the friendly sporting goods folks.

It seems that some big national news outlet put out a newscast saying that ALL 5.56 was being banned (we know that is not true at the current time), which set off a run. I explained the real situation to several of the guys, who had not heard details. But Academy was happy just the same, as they had two barrels of 5.56 M855. Something on the order of 12000 rounds, at $5000. They sold BOTH of them.

There was a lot of the more expensive 5.56, but bulk was gone.

I guess the .22 situation was just a training run.

I am lucky I didn't invest in a .223 /5.56 platform, but all this leaves me wondering when they'll come for my .308

Sorry, I was only speaking of the M855 ammo which the thread was about. I do see you were speaking of all the .223 and 5.56 ammo.

Either way, the M855 is not easy to find right now, except on Gunbroker.

Again. I know this thread is about the XM855. Here is the quoted post i am talking about.



Originally Posted by DanP7 View Post
Unacceptable

Further, any ambivalence from the gun-owning community is unacceptable regardless of your excuses.


I believe that 855 is far from ideal ammo, but it is relaible and inexpensive enough to suit many of my needs and I buy it over its closest substitute, the imported steel case garbage. However, we are seeing a net effect where the entire market is being disrupted by panicking individuals, me-toos, and profit driven speculators that reaches the entire .223/5.56 market. By the virtue of chicken little gun market economics, ALL 5.56/.223 is selling out, and will remain so like .22LR has done the past few years......

AR pistols make up a very small percentage of firearms owned in America. Of those pistols I am not aware of any assaults on LEO's with them. In contrast, most LEO deaths are contributed to vehicle accidents, firearms are second I believe.

It's possible. It all depends on how you define "armor piercing".

Exactly. Someone markets a "handgun" that chambers .308, and we are done.

Any centerfire rifle round is likely to be able to penetrate a vest without plates. If the ability to penetrate LE vests is the criteria, then they'll be coming for it all... This is just the camel's nose under the tent. They will continue to test, and look for any opening (read:lack of pushback) to further restrict us.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I'll re-post this here. I put this into the 2A Forum version of this thread, but this does seem like a better place for people to see it, and TAKE ACTION!

==============================================================

Go to this link, use the form, and your comments will go not only to the BATFE, but the Pres, VP, and your congresscritters.

https://www.nraila.org/take-action/w...rs/stop-batfe/

This is what I put in the comments, clipped from the NRA website:

M855 ammunition should not even be categorized as "armor piercing" in the first place, given that lead is the primary material beneath its copper jacket.

BATFE's framework does not clarify the "sporting purposes" exemption; it simply interprets it into irrelevance.

The framework overturns nearly 30 years of settled law and the good faith expectations of gun owners and industry members.

The framework is totally at odds with the intent of the law to ensure that restrictions on armor piercing handgun ammunition do not unduly restrict common rifle ammunition, most of which is capable of penetrating police body armor when used in a rifle as intended.

BATFE incorrectly insists that it is required to establish an "objective" standard based on handgun design, yet it fails even to do that with the very broad "discretion" it retains to deny the exemption to projectiles that meet its "objective" test.

The framework will suppress the development of non-lead rifle projectiles that offer increased performance for hunters, decreased lead exposure, and solutions for hunters in states that restrict the use of lead in hunting.

The framework will likewise deter handgun development, as new designs could trigger bans.

Coupled with increasing attempts to ban lead projectiles, the framework could drastically reduce the availability of lawful ammunition for sporting and other legitimate purposes.

M855 ammunition in AR pistols is not a common threat faced by law enforcement officers.

By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.”

A few questions come to mind as this new proposal gets more attention. 1) Why now? 2) Is "armor piercing" .223 ammunition really being used at epidemic rates against our law enforcement officers? The answer is no.

This is a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, and I urge you in the strongest terms to reject this proposal.

Feel free to clip and send

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I honestly think that their true motive is to cause a defacto ban on all 5.56/.223 ammo by inducing a panic and making the ammo scarce and mostly expensive like 22 long rifle. That is the only logical explanation for their behavior because their stated reasons behind the ban just doesn't make any logical sense.

I believe if allowed to pass it will lead to similar such bans of common rifle calibers used in pistols.

By the people for the people my butt.

"Shall not be infringed" has become a fairy tale of the founders, it seems.

Exactly what part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" does this government NOT understand?

And the dangerous and scary part is that most of the general public doesn't seem to know or care. I bet they'd go bonkers if their Facebook accounts or favorite reality tv shows were on the chopping block instead of their Second Amendment rights.

All the anti gun libs on social media should flock to CA, NJ, NY and other such states were the utopia of gun control has been realized and see how well that works in the outskirts of the big cities.

The lies and manipulation by the total hypocrites in power to pass these laws on the uninitiated is terrible.

Most folks that aren't gun savy are saying things like, "oh, just the armor piercing stuff, right?"

Drifting too far into general politics...