Did quite a bit of research on the Holosun Red dot, and what I gathered was all positive. They are compared to the Aimpoint T1, and all but the 403A/C uses the same mount. The 403A (and 403C) have the battery mounted on the bottom and held in place by the mount, thus the reason they do not accept the same mount. They are operated by a 2032 3 volt battery which last up to 5 years, rated at 50,000 hours.

I decided to pick on up, bought the 403A paralow. Comes with the standard low mount, and the high rise mount for lower 1/3 co witness. Glass is exceptionally clear and the 2 MOA dot is crisp even with my astigmatism. These have an 8 hour auto shut off, or manual off by pressing both the +/- button together. They turn on via the button or by simple movement. They even have a lifetime warranty. Rated as water proof as well. They weigh in at ~120 grams, are extremely compact, and a fraction of the cost of the T1. I paid 150.00 for mine on Amazon, it was the cheapest model offered.

The 403G has the battery mounted on the side, like the T1. the 403C is solar powered with battery backup. All models are offered in the 503 line that has a circle/dot and dot only option. The 403 line is dot only. They also offer a true co witness mount.

I eyeballed mine with my Magpul MBUS to get on paper, first shot was 2" low and to the right. 3 shots later and I was right on the 1" red bullseye of which I followed up 4 more shots in the bullseye before calling it quits for the evening.

Will probably pick up another for mounting atop a carry handle, they are really compact. They claim parallax free, the shortest distance I shot was 25 yards and it was parallax free at that distance.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Looks like a very neat sight, it resembles the Bushnell TRS25 which I have on my Buckmark 22 and I think is great for the money. I had decided to get a high end optic for my M&P 15 Sport so I have an Aimpoint Pro on layaway at a local store. I'm paying $425.00 for it, I think I have about $300 left to pay... I wonder if I'm doing the right thing. I've never heard of the Holosun sights, do you know where they are made?

Made in China. Primary Arms has a sight that is very similar, except that they changed the battery location. Rastoff has posted about it on here.

The Holosun lifetime warranty that I read only applies to the metal shell.

HOLOSUN® Limited Lifetime Warranty

August 1, 2014
To the original owner, your Holosun product is warranted free of defects in materials and workmanship with the Holosun Limited Lifetime Warranty. This warranty specifically applies to the metal structure of the product and does not apply to the optical and illumination systems.

I believe this has been amended, I'll take a photo of my owners manual and post this evening. That August 1st date in 2014, I believe is from the month before they even launched them.

Initially they didn't claim water proof. Now they do, to 100 meters I believe.

I haven't heard of many issues, but those that have had called the company direct and had a replacement issued along with a return label. All I could scrounge up that had an issue claim to now own multiple after their replacement proved correct and apparently the customer service was favorable.

Please don't think I'm posting this as the end all be all to everyone's beloved Aimpoint/Trijicon/Eotech. If you have the coin for those, great. As was mentioned when I asked about lower parts kits quality, we aren't going to some third world countries jungle, I'm actually just in my back yard and/or pasture/woods. Turns out, one of the take down pins from a budget lower parts kit would hit the detent when closed, so it could walk open... Apparently just a fluke because I used 3 more of the same lower parts kits without issue.

I've had one optic fail to deliver, a Center Pointe, it changed POI with every shot (this was a 3x9 scope). Returned it and got a refund. I have yet to have a bad experience with a UTG product. They aren't the most beautiful piece of optic in the world, but have proven reliable and accurate for me. So when I find a 'mid range' red dot that has tons of favorable reviews and youtube videos, I wanted to see for myself. And I'm not disappointed.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

What I posted was directly from the Holosun website.

No, I didn't take your post that way. The only real gripe about the Holosun that would make it a no-go for me is the image shift that has been reported. Primary Arms also confirms the Holosun does suffer image shift.

Yeah, I understood you got that from their website, I was just mentioning the date, in relation to how things change. I can understand PA piling it on, its direct competition for them. It's not so much direct competition for Aimpoint since its well over half the cost of an Aimpoint. I'll have to check out the image shift on mine this evening, when I'm looking at my target I don't notice such things.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Whats up with the Primary Arms - Holosun HS403 Parallax Free Red Dot? - Page 1 - AR15.COM

Found out where CP got the photo from

It's on the page that the link will take anyone to. Interestingly, the go that took the photo and was complaining of the image shift, sent it back and received a full refund. Later he reordered and compared his new model with his T1, in which he proclaims the image shift is absent and thinks the dot is crisper than the T1.

This was from over a year ago, and honestly, I didn't think they'd been out then. I noticed complaints of lack of stop feel in turret adjustments in that thread, of which mine has positive stop turret feel to it. As with most things new, there were things to work through, and if which it appears the image shift and turret stops have been addressed, but I'll check mine anyways.

To me it appears the Holosun and the PA Advanced micro dot are manufactured in the same plant? I noticed during that thread that PA even mentioned the parallax on the Holosun to be, and it may just be the way I read it, better than what they notice on the T1. Less dot movement when moving your head side to side.

I do know when it arrived yesterday, I aimed it at the mailbox across the street and was able to move my line of sight, putting the dot all around the inside circumference and it stayed on the mailbox, no matter where I was viewing through. This I like, I've had low end red dots that didn't have this good of parallax and it's a bit frustrating to focus on the target as well as keeping the dot centered, to say the least.

My Vortex Strikefire II is another that seems to be parallax free (all of them are going to have some sort of parallax at really close distances)

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

The paper says to refer to the Holosun website for current and complete warranty information and other conditions. So it would appear the only thing they warranty for life is the metal housing. Still, the three and five year on the rest isn't bad.

Glad the guy got a different one that he likes better. Chinese quality control can be like that. Primary Arms got a good reputation years ago by checking their optics before sending to the buyer. I have two of their MicroDots that have worked well on .22s for years.

My guess is that a lot of these optics are made at the same plant/parts boxes/specs of the week. If you look at the various Chinese red dots on the market most of the models will look identical or eerily similar to others with the just a different label on the side. I've Got a Primary Arms compact 4x that is identical to a ton of others, including one that Sig Sauer labeled as their own.

A couple years ago I remember Marshall at PA working with the manufacturer to develop a new and improved compact 4x (compared to the old one I had). Lots of input from Forum members and reticle design posted... What Marshall got wasn't what he asked for. Not too sure anyone really knows what goes on behind walls at the labor camps.

I tried from all sort of angles this evening, on parallel lines, angled lines, but I couldn't see an image shift at all.

The mount allows for lower 1/3 co-witness, but when I lower to the sights, the dot is spot on.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

I have the Primary Arms Advanced Microdot. I'm relatively pleased with it. I don't seem to have the "image shift" issues as bad as that photo, but they do exist. However, the images posted above can be misleading.

Look again at the photos. Those green arrows were added by me. They are pointing to the location of the actual red dot. Notice that the top one is more in the center where the bottom pic has the dot close to the edge of the body. By changing the angle they were looking though the optic, they change the way the light travels through it. ALL glass will distort if you look through it at any angle that isn't perpendicular.

The real question here is not, is there a light shift, but does that light shift affect how it operates as the gun is shot? The answer is, if the bullet goes where the dot is, who cares if there is a little shift?

I don't know if the Holosun is the same as the PA AMD, but if it is close, it's a good optic.


Got this three shot group with mine:

Not bad when you get a sub MOA group while using a 2MOA dot.

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Freedom isn't free.

Magnification image shift makes it quite distracting for me. I've got a Burris FFIII that is 1.07x on a Ruger pistol. Shooting with both eyes open it's like part of my vision is looking through a moving fish tank across the target zone. Guys I've talked to on the Net don't notice it much because I think they just shoot at a piece of paper in front of them. Most of my shooting is at various targets positions/distances at our Plinking range so there's a lot of moving around. If I was going to shoot my AR at a piece of paper and try to make small groups I'd replace my Aimpoint with a magnified scope and crosshairs.

I hear ya Phil, but I really don't think the "shift" is as bad on this optic as some are tying to make it out to be. At least my PA is so small I don't notice anything and I use my gun like you use yours.

I have a FFIII as well and it is worse than the Trijicon RMR08G I have. I don't use it much though. I'll have to play with it some more.

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Freedom isn't free.

I'd guess the Holosun 403A and the PA AMD were built at the same plant.

Rastoff, does the front lens on the PA have a tilt to it? The Holosun's do, I forgot why this is and what it is said to achieve, but I do remember running across an explanation from guy that brought out the Holosun RDS. I went through several threads on AR15 where PA was actively involved in the thread and watched it progress from the initial Holosun offer where there were complaints of the turret not having a positive stop, to the image shift and both items were addressed according to PA.

Either way, it appear customer service from both Holosun and PA are excellent should you have an issue with their product.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

It's part of the operation of the optic.

But why are only a few produced with a tilted front lens? IIRC the MRO has a tilted front lens as well. My Vortex does not. Do others have a third glass in there that's tilted?

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

I don't know what Vortex you have but front reflective lens is angled to properly reflect the LED back to the eye. The LED on these type optics are typically off to the side and bottom of the housing and the lens is angled accordingly.

It's not unusual for people to think something is wrong. Aimpoint even has a Q&A on their website addressing it.

"My objective lens is a little bit inclined!

This is not a broken sight! The front lens is a little bit inclined due to the fact the diode is not located in the centre of the sight but it might be located either in the roof part or the lower part of the sight depending on the model. The lens and the diode are in line with one and other."

Vortex strikefire II. I say it isn't tilted, but I should also say I didn't get that impression. I knew the holosun was going in, and it does stand out rather obviously that it is tilted.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

The Striikefire has a longer tube. Perhaps there's a separate forward front clear lens that you're looking at like my old Japanese Tasco PDP2s have. (not to be confused with the below)

In any event, here's bit more on how these optics work.

The Firearm Blog had a good write-up of this optic.

Unsuitable at Any Range: A Holosun Review - The Firearm Blog

In case it's not clear from the link address, the reviewer was less than impressed.

All firearms and accessories can be broken into two groups: those for fun (this can include high-level target shooting), and those to bet your life upon. My impression (no firsthand experience) is the Holosun is in the former group.

Here's a bit more positive review than the one above. Still, the Holosun rear lens fell out.

Gear Review: Holosun HS503C Circle Dot Sight - The Truth About Guns

If I had a nickel for every time I've read to use lock-tite... I read the article, the guy didn't want to use it in the first place, he's not going to like it, and that's ok. I'll assume these were fairly early models since this was yesterday and he's had it for a year. If I were so inclined, I could link to a couple of current topics of users with the LED out on their Aimpoint, I'm just not inclined.

I did notice that in the comments section below the article, I didn't notice anyone that mentioned they have the Holosun, were un happy with it.

I just chaulk all this up with the old adage that if a person doesn't like the answer to something, they'll keep asking until someone gives them the answer they want to hear.

If I have an issue with mine, I'll post about it. It wasn't given to me, I paid for it, based solely on reviews and research.

I thought I really really liked my Vortex until I received and zeroed this RDS, now the Vortex, while still functioning flawlessly, just seem a bit huge.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Yes it does. In fact, the literature specifically mentions it and the fact that its normal. Personally I never thought about it. My focus on all things gun is, how do they help me put bullets where I want them to go?

Looks are secondary to me so, as long as the bullets go where intended, I would never question things like lenses that seem to be not square to the tube.

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Freedom isn't free.

Perhaps, but I think the reviews were what they were. I've seen glowing comments from TFB about dime store optics, including PA, so I'm not too inclined to think it was a determined hit piece.

There were four Holosun optics in the two linked reviews. All four failed. Two stopped working entirely. The auto-on failed on one, and a lens fell out of another. I think it's more a reflection of Chinese quality control. Some work absolutely perfect and others may have a variety of issues.

When I bought my Primary Arms Compact 4x about four years ago there was a BIG stink about the reticles being canted. Pursuant to that, Marshall made sure the reticles were checked before being shipped. Where did the others end up? Probably e-bay or..... That's why I have repeatedly recommended doing business with Primary Arms when buying this level of optic. They have a solid reputation for making things right. So you get a great one out of the box or maybe happen to get one that isn't and Marshall replaces it. Either way, you'll end up with a solid working optic for recreational use.

The Chinese companies still have a ways to go to make a dead-nuts-reliable combat optic. Shotgun News seems to love the Hi-Lux line and these seem to be the cream of the crop. Unfortunately it's tough to tell if these are "combat worthy" since the men who use/procure such gear don't buy Chinese.

I don't cringe when I see a Holosun/PA/Vortex Strikefire on a 10/22 or other plinker. I do when it's on an AR or shotgun set up to defend the castle.