Hey guys, just came back from the range and after shooting about 300 rounds through my M&P 15 one of the rounds get stock inside the upper on top of the bolt, please see picture attached, I need some assistance if you guys could help me. Thanks in advance.

See Owner's Manual and start disassembly like you were going to clean the upper receiver. You will have to remove upper and lower receiver pins to remove the upper assembly.

Good luck, there is a lesson here about steel cased ammo ! ! !

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S&WHF 366

Thank you, I tried to disassemble by removing the pins but the problem is that it won't come apart because the bolt carrier is stuck so it won't let the lower to come apart

The bolt is back in the buffer tube. It will not come apart.

I would find an extra hand.

Pull lightly on charge handle and use a dowel to push on the bolt and ease it back.

You have already done the first step which is to drop the magazine. Put the safety on, rest the rifle butt down on something then pull the charging handle back while pushing the bolt hold open lever in. If you can lock the bolt back, you should be easily able to shake the stuck cartridge loose.

Have someone hold back the charging handle. Safty on, exercise muzzle awarness.
Use a strong wooden dowel and light hammer and tap rearward on the exposed section of the bolt face until the cartridge comes free.
Jim

This sounds like it might actually work, I'll give this a try THANK YOU 🏻

Before breaking out the hammer, while holding the rifle with the muzzle pointed down try sticking your finger through the mag well and pushing the bolt face to the rear. If the bolt moves the round may shake free. If that occurs, sharply pull your finger downward allowing the bolt to slam home. Careful, move to slow and your finger will be the next round fed.

Some "Bolt Over Base" malfunctions can be cleared this way. Others require to use some sort of tool to force the bolt to the rear. I usually use the but end of my folding knife handle, but anything thin enough to clear the ejection port will work. Leatherman makes a tool specifically for this.

I had this happen on a Bushmaster once. All I could do was grab that cartridge with the biggest pair of pliers possible and work it out from between the bolt and the receiver. I had to smash the cartridge almost flat and twist/turn it out. I REALLY had to muscle it out of there. It was not steel cased. I did do a little cosmetic damage to the ejection port but other than that, no real damage.

I was using a cheap plastic 10 rd. magazine I bought from the LGS for $5.99. After many rounds using Colt 20 and Bushmaster 30 rd. magazines with no problems, I sent that cheap plastic magazine to the happy hunting ground with a soft point. Never had the problem again. I'm clueless as to how a magazine could cause this.

Make sure the chamber is empty. It occured to me that a double feed may have caused the jam.
Jim

I think, that's exactly what happened the second round was ejected. Thank you so much

You are welcome.
Stay Safe
Jim

Before you try anything else, please use CQB27's recommendation above. He knows whereof he speaks.

You may be surprised at how little effort this takes. Move the bolt back first with a dowel, a screwdriver blade or even your finger through the mag well. The round will probably drop right out.

UPDATE: After doing this the bolt moved back but also so did the round. The round still stuck but at least is now moving back and forth...

UPDATE: The round is OUT! Thank you so much guys, I really appreciate it. Lesson learned, don't buy/use steel cased ammo

Caveat emptor...... It might have seemed like a great deal, until things like this happen..... The OP is fortunate to not have to replace a broken extractor.....

I'm still not quite clear on PRECISELY what happened to get the round to its stuck state. Is it really blamable on the steel case per se? Or were folks using that term to generically refer to "lower quality ammo"? Was some dimension of the round off so it didn't come out of the mag right?

The same scenario is possible with brass ammo as well.

Here is my assessment on what happened: there were about 5 light primer strikes out of the 300 rounds, the last light primer strike I did not properly cycled the rifle therefore a 2nd round was fed in causing a "double feed", it was a combination of user error/lack of experience and poor quality ammo, at least this is what I think happened

Good thing you got the round out but one thing stood out;

You had this issue with your rifle yesterday, and fixed it today? So you transported your rifle in an unsafe condition from the range back to your house?

That's why range masters are available, to help in these sort of situations.

Steel cased ammo works great in commie rifles like the AK and SKS's, not so good in our AR based rifles.

Really? You can tell all that from the pic? There couldn't have been a faulty part? Poorly seated mag? Or a host of other issues? It's definitely the steel case! So if my Colt does something similar would there be a lesson about brass case? Or is that when we see if it's the firearm?

So what lessons are we learning here?

Just to be safe, send it to me to properly dispose of

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Forged From Freedom

Remove the buffer tube, and withdraw the bolt assembly through the rear of the receiver.

Its inconvenient, and requires a few very ordinary tools.

I notice you are shooting STEEL CASE ammo in your 5.56 NATO rifle.
Bad decision.

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Most times I go to the range in the morning when no one is there. No RO, no one. I don't know what you are expecting from the OP. Stay until/if someone shows up to help. Looking at the pictures of the problem, I see no problem bringing the firearm home to repair.

This leads to another problem. A bolt carrier will not slide out through the rear of an AR lower, due to the gas offset.

Chances are very good that this problem resulted from a bad magazine! Think about it. If the BCG properly stripped the round from the magazine, the base of the cartridge would slide into the bolt face. But in this instance, the cartridge slipped out of the magazine and had to have been above the bolt as the BCG slid forward. I would suspect that the magazine lips spread so that the cartridge popped out of the magazine and threw off the timing.

I would check the magazine, by loading it and see if the cartridges stay in, or if they pop out under spring tension.

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Judge control not gun control!

I just saw it as; take care of the situation while at the range.

Every range I've attended whether it was in Northern/Southern CA, Texas, or South Carolina, there were always range masters unless it was on private land which was not specified here.

Not every range has Range Masters or a bench/tools for fixing a malfunction. Small, private ranges often have neither unless there is a scheduled event happening. Even then, tools would be whatever people bring with them, so transporting a firearm in the condition like in this thread to a place where there are tools and a bench wold be unavoidable.

You're right.

OP just learned something new which we've all at one point experienced; bring tools with you in your range bag that'll help resolve an issue should one arise.

Yeah, I'm only missing a couple things myself. I need a broken shell extractor for my various calibers and chamber brushes for my non-AR platforms yet. Otherwise, can do pretty much a complete tear down of my firearms if I wanted to.

I bring a limited amount of tools to the range. Between gun, ammo, targets, stapler, things add up. At the trap range where I am a member the shotgun can be completely taken apart. At the rifle and pistol club I belong to, there is a trailer usually locked up. It's a small range and if there are 5 people there when I go I think it's crowded. Even at the States WMA ranges I'm usually the only person there.

Just to clear up the confusion, I bought the rifle home because the bolt would not move, ZERO movement, the magazine was removed and the safety was engaged, it was put in a rifle bag and drove it home. I was told by the range officer that someone there could take a look and see, but honestly I took a lot longer at the range than I expected and my wife was already burning up my phone so I had to take the chance and go home, I felt it was safe for me to do so. Gladly for me I did because I learned how to fix it myself with you guys' help. I forgot to mention that I did sprayed some break free in it while I was trying to free up the round that was stuck, that really helped out by the way.

I have to be very careful how I say this for obvious reasons, but I see absolutely nothing wrong in your actions. The rifle could not fire because there was no way the primer was going to be struck. Also, you did the prudent thing: you contacted others and resolved the problem. Sadly, it appears there will always be those ready to ridicule; I would take what they say with a grain of salt.

And I am very pleased you got it fixed. I have been working on a 35-caliber wildcat on the AR platform for about a year and a half, and I have had stuck BCGs more than I wish to think about. Apparently, had some of the members on here seen what I had to do to get the live rounds to extract, some of them would have had myocardial infarctions (a fancy name for a heart attack...).

Range masters are not armorers or gunsmiths. Even if a range master had been there, it's unlikely he would have received any better advice than what's been posted here.

Further, this gun was not unsafe to carry. There was no round in the chamber and the stuck round was no more unsafe than any unchambered round.

As has been said, this cannot be done.

The upper can be separated from the lower by pulling the take down pins. With both the front and rear pins out, the upper can be pulled forward. It will take a little extra effort, but it can be done. You would have to take a small device and press the hammer down to get it to clear the bolt. Then the upper will just come off forward.

If you can't get to the hammer, there is another way. You can press out the hammer pin. It will rattle around in the receiver, but it will then allow the upper to come off. Of course you'd have to then reassemble everything which could be difficult to do in the field.

In an emergency this problem can be fixed by doing a procedure called mortaring. This is accomplished by pulling back on the charging handle while at the same time slamming the butt stock on the ground. This is a dangerous procedure and I don't recommend it except as a last resort.

I know the OP has already fixed this. I just wanted to offer up a few alternatives for posterity.

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Freedom isn't free.

Oh yeah, one more thing.

Be sure to check your gas tube. It is possible that the end of the gas tube was damaged with this malfunction. If it was squashed, replace it.

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Freedom isn't free.

I know I'm late to this dance but oil applied at contact points might help a lot.

To continue this discussion, please explain why mortaring is dangerous if you control the muzzle. I realize that it's a good way to break a stock if done improperly, but I was taught that it is a quick and easy tool-less solution for removal of most stuck cases. Using Google, I can't find an answer to my question.

In the OP's case, a screwdriver or cleaning rod section could have been used to pry back the bolt, but that is not alway possible or the tools are unavailable. For complete disclosure, I shoot at a private range and carry a small quantity of tools and a couple of cleaning rod sections with me, so mortaring is a last resort.

Mortaring the rifle with a bolt over base malfunction will do nothing to fix the malfunction. Mortaring a rifle can fix a failure to extract/eject malfunction, but mortaring a bolt over base malfunction is an exercise in futility. I actually attended a carbine course where the instructor taught mortaring a bolt over base malfunction. The result was one student who ignored the solution, one bent receiver extension, one broken polymer lower, and multiple-repeated-stocks slammed into the good earth with no effect.

I will add mortaring a rifle to fix a failure to extract/eject is not inherently dangerous. Some damage can be done to the rifle if the collapsible stock is not fully retracted (bent receiver extension), but dangerous...not.

Bolt over base malfunctions are almost always caused by one round loose in the receiver, sitting on top of the magazine, as the bolt goes forward and feeds the next round from the magazine during the "fire, unlock, extract, eject, feed, lock" cycle. It occurs as the bolt moves rearward during the "eject" sequence, and a round pops out of the magazine and sits in the space above the magazine. As the bolt begins moving forward during the "feed" sequence, the round is pushed up onto the space between the top of the bolt and the charging handle channel. The cause of this whole ugly affair is almost always a bad magazine. Marking you magazines and noting which one is in use during malfunctions can go along way toward preventing repeating the self loathing these events bring.


One more thing: There is a lot of fail in this thread, "steel cased ammo", "broken extractor", "disassemble the rifle". OP, if I were you, the next time I had a technical issue/question about an AR I would consider heading over to an AR specific forum for advice. I don't get my S&W revolver advice from a AR rifle forum....just saying. As always, YMMV.

Steel cased ammo will function fine in your AR as long as you keep it well lubricated and cleaned. Steel cased ammo does have some accelerated wear characteristics. The link below is a very well done and informative comparison between brass cased and steel cased 5.56/.233 ammo.


Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo - An Epic Torture Test

While mortaring could help, the risk of hurting oneself in the process is very real. Go to youtube and see how many people have hurt their fingers and hands doing this.

This condition cannot be fixed.

As a free service to all members, I will dispose of rifles which are stuck like this.

Right.

The real lesson is that a 6 or 8 inch section of 1/4 or 3/8 in oak dowel in your range bag will solve a whole host of problems on almost any fired arm out there. You can almost always find a "hammer" (use the heel of your shoe if nothing else is available) but its really hard to find a good solid straight stick. Rebar will NOT work.

Mine is a little particular with reloads too
use a gauge block now before they go in the mag

This caveat applies to any internet forum out there, at times, I have seen just as much if not more bad information on the so-called dedicated ar15 forums. Even those forums have their brand fan boys, sometimes for the right reason and sometimes for no reason at all.

Like anything else in life a person should attempt to verify information before before acting on it, even weigh it against their own knowledge and experiences, while checking/verifying the information from other sources as well. One thing for sure there is no shortage of AR 15 information sources and opinions.

This thread did have some very good advice sprinkled with some bad as well. I don't think the advice would have been any more consistent on any other board.

Good article IF you plan to shoot 10k rounds in one day

OR if you read the above responses that seem to purpose that a single round of steel cased ammo is bad, OR stocking a few thousand rounds might be a mistake.

Agreed

......

Note to all those that said mortaring was not a good idea: Please go back and read what I said. Yes, it is an unsafe practice and should only be done as a last resort.

In this case it could help. The bolt was stuck by the round being wedged between the bolt and receiver. Moving the bolt back could release the stuck round. Which is in fact what fixed this particular malfunction.

Mortaring is dangerous because the muzzle is difficult to control. So, if there is potentially a live round in the chamber, it can be dangerous.

As many others have stated, it is also dangerous for many other mechanical reasons. I direct your attention to the clowns in the video posted by rtquig. There are a few failures in that video, but not collapsing the adjustable butt stock prior to trying to mortar the gun is the most glaring example of poor handling. Also, I would say that the technique was completely unnecessary at that time. The only time I would consider mortaring an AR is when I'm in the field, have no opportunity to get to a work space and my life depends on getting the gun back in operation right now.

These back yard commandos give gun owners a bad name in many ways. How about the one guy running in front of the other while there was still live fire?

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Freedom isn't free.

I don't really want to argue the point, but mortaring a bolt over base malfunction is worthless. What cleared this malfunction was pushing the bolt carrier back from the bolt face, not pulling the bolt carrier group back with the charging handle. In this case it makes all the difference, but feel free to mortar away.

This video is analogous to filming a man smash his thumb with a hammer and saying carpentry is dangerous. It's an example of operator error, nothing more. There is nothing inherently dangerous about mortaring a rifle when it is done properly.

I would say it is an operator error and shows what can happen when done incorrectly. Everyone knows it's smart to take your rifle and slam it into the ground. My gun isn't working, what should I do? Walk to a table/ tailgate and see if I can fix this or slam it on the ground like I would any good tool. Please don't also use that approach with your TV and PC.

Oh, by the way, if you look up monthly OSHA accidents you will find most job accidents are from carpenters falling off ladders and roofs, so yes carpentry can be dangerous.