I’m back again humbly seeking advice regarding my first AR. I’ve been reading a lot since I posted my previous thread and with more knowledge gained I now may be a little bit more focused.

Uses: mostly range (out to 250 yds); truck gun/logging road plinker; defense (should societal chaos/anarchy ever occur). This would not be my go-to weapon for interior home defense. I doubt I’ll use it for hunting.

Preferences:

• I like quality construction/parts and good value (bang for the buck), good warranty
• $1K – ish price range
• Lighter is better -- I don’t envision mounting anything beyond optics
• 16” free floating barrel 1/7 or 1/8 preferred
• Front fold-down sight (not the fixed A2 gas block/sight)
• Optics ready upper (I imagine iron sights being used for backup)
• Perhaps a pencil barrel
• Perhaps a mid-length gas system

I keep coming back to a couple of Colt and M&P models that incorporate a number of these elements but none have all of these features. It’s the relative trade-offs I’m struggling with. Note that Pros/Cons I’ve listed are not absolutes – I’d love your opinion on them. The four ARs I keep coming back to are…

Colt LE6940 ($1300 street):

Colt LE 6940 at G and R Tactical

Pros: Quality/value. Has the monolithic upper with free floating 1/7 barrel and front folding sights. Ready for optics.

Cons: standard heavier barrel, carbine length gas system, highest price, slightly heavier at 6.7 lbs. May be hard to find.

Colt LE6720 ($800 street):

Colt AR6720 AR15-A4 Carbine Semi-Auto 223 Rem/5.56 NATO 16.1" 30+1 4-Position Stock Blk

Pros: Quality/value, lighter at 6.2 lbs. Pencil barrel 1/7, optics ready, lowest price.

Cons: Carbine length gas system, A2 non-folding front sights, non-free float barrel.

M&P15T ($950 street):

Product: ARCHIVE: Model M&P15T Rifle

Pros: Quality/value, free floating 1/8 5R melonite pencil barrel, folding front sights.

Cons: a little heavier at 6.8 lbs. Carbine length gas system, 4140 (rather than 4150) steel barrel. No longer in production – may be hard to find.

M&P15MOE-Mid ($900 street):

Product: Model M&P15 MOE Mid MAGPUL® SPEC SERIES

Pros: Quality/value, lightest at 6.5 lbs. complete Magpol MOE furniture, Mid-length gas system, 1/8 5R Melonite 4150 barrel.

Cons: A2 gas block front sights.

Please let me know your opinions on those differences that are most important vs least important. For example:

How much less of a distraction would the A2 gas block/sight be on a mid-length gas system rifle vs on a carbine length system? Would it be less “in the way?” Am I making a bigger deal out of the A2 sight than I should?

How important is 4140 vs 4150 steel?

Is the LE9640 $400 - $500 “better” than the others?

I’ve gravitated toward these primarily due to reputation, warranty, and value. I understand that I probably could build exactly the rifle I’m imagining but I’m unwilling to take on that project at this time.

Thanks up-front for all the input! I’m currently leaning toward the LE6940 followed by the M&P15T and M&P15 MOE-Mid (tied) with the 6720 bringing up the rear. Help sway me one way or the other!

This is the view of the A2 front sight post on the MOE-Mid looking thru a scope at 1X.



The post disappears from the scope view at magnifications above 2X. The post doesn't bother me even when it is in view.

The last two digits in a 41xx series steel denotes the carbon content in hundreds of a percent. 4140 = 0.40% carbon and 4150 = 0.50% carbon. The higher carbon content in 4150 means the steel is slightly harder and a little more durable compared to 4140, but you're unlikely to notice the difference in practical use. I will say though, the barrel on the MOE-Mid is awesome, and capable of producing very tight groups.

If you haven't seen the TNP review of the MOE-Mid, you may want to check it out (Warning: It takes the reviewer 3-mins to get to the actual review, but it is a good review):

S&W M&P15 Magpul: FULL REVIEW {Thin Barrel AR-15) - YouTube

Good luck with your decision.

The or variant has a receiver rail height front gas block, look into that one if you are planning on optics.

Yes! I saw that and it was the primary reason I included that rifle in the short list. It impressed me.

Yes, thanks. Isn't that simply a "T" without the sights?

Might want to take a look at Rock River Arms. They offer a wide range of options and will build to your specs. I own a RRA ar-15, and a buddy shoots one of their .308 ar's. Both are well made and accurate. Most come with an accuracy guarantee.

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm

Larry

Whether the A2 sight bothers you or not is something only you will be able to answer. If you read the Forum you'll see plenty of folks replacing the A2 front sight and handguard on Sports.

The general configuration of the 15T (folding front sight on handguard) is quite popular.

You mentioned weight as a consideration. I have a Yankee Hill Machine 7810 / 8810. Basically a 15T configuration with a lighter handguard and fluted barrel which comes in a quarter pound lighter than the 15T, including steel folding sights instead of the plastic MBUS on the 15T. You can find them for around $1k.

You mentioned gas systems as a consideration. I put a Syrac adjustable gas block on my YHM so I can adjust it to whatever I want.

Also, consider the diameter of the handguard. Quad rails can be a bit much to wrap you hand around. Round handguard with attachable rail sections and Keymod handguards are worthy of consideration.

Happy AR hunting.

Here's my 2¢ that cost me 325,000 X 2¢ to learn:

1. AR-15's are built on standardized dimensions.

2. For your 1st AR, buy a factory complete AR-15 from a well known, long established manufacturer that has the financial resources to fully back their warranty. Anyone can hand out a warranty, but not many can truly staff a customer support center and repair center for quick response time and repair turn around time.

3. Think of the AR-15 in your mind. Remember that image. Buy the rifle that closest fits that image, yet fits in your budget. Standard disclaimer: budget means available money after meeting all financial obligations including retirement savings.

4. Remember to make room in your budget for those additional items you'll need to run your AR-15. An example list:

• Rifle case / bag.
• Flexible rod cleaning kit.
• C.A.T. M4 cleaning tool. (you'll thank me later)
• Chamber brush
• Cleaning solvent / oil
• Extra magazines
• Ammunition

5. Learn to shoot the iron sights.

6. Because you're list of duties is defense of life, buy a red dot optic. At this point, I can recommend Aimpoint.

7. Remember your purpose of use is defense of life and the unlikely event of the breakdown of law and order. You could be forced to evacuate on foot. Keep your rifle as light as possible. Resist the urge to add on accessories for purely aesthetic reasons.

The A2 gas block front sight post system disappears when looking through a magnified optic. The annoyance can come when looking through an unmagnified red dot. Some people don't like the dot hovering (sometimes over) the front sight post.

If a low profile, foldable front sight is on your wish list buy a rifle that has it.


For us civilians who don't have access to full auto or burst mode, not much. What does make the difference is barrel treatment. Since you're intention is SHTF, make sure the barrel is treated for enhanced corrosion resistance: salt bath nitriding or hard chrome lined.

__________________
-John

I have had many Colts and found all of them to be great rifles. I now own a SW MidMOE with the thin 1/8 5R barrel and really love it. I did float the barrel using a AGL 12" rail and it just got even better. My groups shrank and the rifle got lighter. The fixed front sight is gone and not missed either.

The only thing I can add to the above comments is the 1/8 barrels will be more flexible in ammunition choices.

1/7 is more for people looking to "reach out and touch someone" with heavier and longer bullets. The basement floor in bullet weight is about 55 gr.

There are plenty of 55gr and 62gr offerings out there, so it's not a limiting factor but if you want to shoot lighter bullets, you may have problems with them breaking up before they reach the target from spinning too fast. Emphasis on MAY.

The 1/8 barrels will still let you shoot bullets around 70-77 grain and maybe 79 if you are real lucky but it will be at the edge of the stability envelope. Depending on the barrel, 77gr may be pushing it. Every rifle is different.

Anyway, for what you are looking to use the rifle for, I would go 1/8, regardless of what brand you pick. It will be the most flexible.

Thanks, Larry. RRA has a dizzying array of offerings!

Thanks. I did a bunch more research on the quad rails that are involved with the LE6940 and the S&W T and OR models and think I'd be unhappy with the size/feel. I appreciate that you tipped me off to that.

Thanks for taking the time to post that, JaPes. I appreciate you boiling-down a great deal of experience.

I think any of the Colt LE or M&P offerings generally will meet the requirements you outline initially. As far as the folding front sight, it appears that they are only found on those models that use quad rails -- something I'm shying away from after doing a bunch more reading. So in terms of a Colt or S&W offering (greatly meeting your criteria of long established companies with good warranties), I'm finding I'll likely not find specifically what I'm looking for. As such, I'm looking at what pathway gets me where I want to go with the least upgrading needed.

If I were to revise my short list at this point (seeing that there likely will be some modification needed), it would be the LE 6920 (instead of the 6940) and the M&P 15 Magpul Mid.

I guess I'm making progress thanks to you guys!

Scott, can you elaborate on your MidMOE modding? Did you put any front sight on after removing the A2 like in the Nutnfancy video? http://smith-wessonforum.com/redirec...%2FdX4BQl2nlek

Did you do the work yourself? Which ALG rail did you go with and have you attached anything else?

What are you using for sights?

Thanks -- good info.

As far as ARs go, I'm a Colt fan, myself, and I personally

feel they have somewhat of a home court advantage over the

rest of the AR field. That said, I must agree there are better

ARs out there, if you spend proportionally more, I.E. you can't

fairly compare a Colt to a 2500$ base rifle. But I've never

found a S&W firearm which I felt was a bad value, and

I really like both of mine.

If you want all the things you like on one rifle, and there is

nothing already assembled like it on the market, you may

want to look into getting the AR armorer's blocks and

wrenches, perhaps a good manual or two, and mix and

match your own rifle. I would try to stay with one brand as

much as possible. Best of luck.

+1 on the MOE Mid.
Love mine

The 6720 is a nice handy little rifle. The A2 sight is a nonissue, as is the stock barrel. What almost every of these CAN use is a trigger upgrade. That and a good optic will do.

You can overthink this stuff. It's not a "relationship".

HA! Yeah, you nailed it -- overthinking. Guilty as charged!

I used the AGL 12" V2 MLok version from Brownells and a low gas block from Sadlick also from Brownells. I ordered the Magpul action barrel tool for the work. Did everything my self after watching the video. Had to cut my front sight base off as one pin would not budge. Overall no problems at all. Reused my gas tube and roll pin. The rail is VERY secure and extremely well made and my barrel centers nicely.
Front sight on the short part of rail milled onto the tube is now a Magpul MBUS Pro. Small but very well made. I have a Magpul paraclip MLok sling loop on the tube as well both nothing else. Very light setup. I run a Aimpoint PRO as my main optic with a 50/200 zero.

Prior to the swap I needed 16 clicks of right windage and 12 clicks of down elevation using the factory provided sights to complete a military 25m zero. After the swap I now have 2 clicks right windage and 7 down for elevation at the same 25 meters. Prior to swap shooting 62 and 77 gr produced 2 very different points of impact so much so using the zero for one was making it hard to use the other. After swap I zeroed with 77gr SMK at 50 and confirmed at 200m shooting centermass targets...perfect. Loaded 62gr green tips and out to 300 I am now making good solid center mass shots using either round with my Aimpoint.

The only other thing I did to the rifle was get rid of the SW long *** flash hider and put a short A1 flash hider on it using the same crush washer.
My end result pleases me a lot and I am fully confident it it now as I have shot it with both rounds at full range. Everything is tight and centered and fits like a glove. The rifle runs wet or dry and seems to run well very dirty.
Would I do it again? YES. That AGL is one hell of a rail for anyone that does NOT want a bulky quad rail.

Very helpful info, Scott -- thanks again for taking the time to spell out the details.

You might also consider putting together your own. I have 2 M&P sports and really like them. I want a no frills down and dirty AR to be able to throw on the ATV, or in the truck. I grabbed a blemished lower from PSA, then got a PSA mid length upper. All in for under $450,and that includes shipping and FFL. I have since added a B5 systems mid length hand guard, PSA enhanced trigger, magpul moe stock, and hogue grip. Still under $600. It has become the on I grab the most. Lightweight and fun to shoot.

Attached Images

IMG_20150711_201621141.jpg (90.6 KB, 38 views)

__________________
M&P9/9C/Shieldx2/Sportx2/15-22

I'm trying to remember, one or more of these online retailers sell S&W complete uppers. It might be worth a look. It might not be cheaper but assembling a rifle, even one where you just snap together a complete upper with a complete lower, will get you most if not all the options you want. The retailers I'm thinking of is Sportsman's Guide, Cheaper Than Dirt!, and Natchez.

I generally steer clear of CTD since they priced gouged ammo when people were grabbing up everything they could but I don't completely rule them out as a last option.

PSA does have some really good deals on things too. The quality you get for the money you pay is pretty darn good.

6720 . Don't sweat the front sight assy.

The M&P 15T is not discontinued... the first gen that had a Troy quad rail is, but the second gen with the 1:8 twist melonited barrel, or corrosion protective whatever S&W calls it now, is still available to my knowledge.
Product: Model M&P15T - 5.56 mm, Tactical

Out of your list, the Sport is the best value, if you can live with the A2 front sight post. If not, then the Colt 6920 takes the same hit.

Personally, I would take the Colt LE6940 off the list as a first AR. Monolithic upper means you cant change out the rail if you do not like it. I do not care for quad rails... they are older technology and earned the nickname "cheese grater". I like the slimmer handguards, and with key lock or M lock, you can still attach stuff to the rifle if you are so inclined. If it is your first AR, you don't really know what you would like or wouldn't like.

Basically, between Colt and S&W, you will get more features on a S&W than you will a Colt, but you may not get all the "mil-spec" features like 4150 steel barrels, etc. You will have to decide what is more important to you.

I would also recommend looking at BCM. They have many configurations and you can probably get very close to exactly what you want from them.

Maybe in the future but I'm just way too busy to do all of that research! It took me a week of reading to get this far. HA!

Thanks!

Would have liked to see that older Tactical model to which you refer as one of the reasons I chose against the Tactical is the quad rail on the current model as well as the slightly better barrel on the MOE Mid.

I also agree about the 6940 but may not have, if it had a non-quad rail like the one you mentioned on the old S&W Tactical.

Yeah, the M&P15 MOE Mid had the most on the wish list and I was especially interested in the 1/8 4150 semi-pencil barrel which folks talked glowingly about. Already outfitted with Magpul furniture so I won't have to endure that experiment.

Likely the only mods I'll (possibly) feel compelled to engage are a free floating (non quad) rail and folding front sights in place of the A2 -- but we'll see. Maybe it will be perfect right out of the box! I'm willing for that to occur.

Thanks much to everyone who took the time to share their knowledge. I appreciate that and it was helpful to me.

I ended up ordering the M&P 15 MOE Mid edition (specs here):

Product: Model M&P15 MOE Mid MAGPUL® SPEC SERIES

I think that it will require the fewest changes (and perhaps none) of anything else I may have considered. I still want a 6920 if for nothing more than to put it away for a rainy day and almost bought one of those as well but refrained despite the excellent prices over the weekend.

I think prices are crazy good right now and I may "collect" two or three more ARs or even AKs in the next year. I don't think it's possible these rifles can get any lower in price but history tells us how high they can go!

Cheers and thanks again -- hopefully this all is helpful to others as well.

Sounds like you went through the same mental gymnastics and reached the same conclusion I did one year ago. I love mine and the only change I made was to put on an SL hand guard. The m-lok makes moving accessories around so much easier.

Yeah, I'm a serial researcher. It's a genetic flaw. I'm into guitars, photography, birding, metal art, and a few other too expensive hobbies. But nothing has equaled the morass of thousands of confusing options with regard to AR variants.

Mental gymnastics....yeah...I need a vacation!

Thank you email4eric! When I was a kid, we had to add security doors due to a break-in. Our next door neighbor could have been called a serial researcher, too. My mom just called up the same door company he had used trusting his judgment. I brought home the same model M&P15 today after finding your thread last night. Smith & Wesson owes you a commission! It seemed like a reasonable upgrade over the plain Sport model for roughly $300 more.

I emailed photos to my friend and told him, "All I know is it is two colors, shoots 5.56 and 223, and the price. Don't ask me anything else about it, because I don't know!"

I've never been attracted to rifles, but I decided it was time to get one while prices were still reasonable.

Excellent! That's funny because I have a couple of friends that also just call me when they want to know what to get in terms of some item...tires, computers, etc., etc. They've learned to piggy-back onto that character flaw of mine! HA!

Congratulations!

I racked my brain when I bought a 1911 a couple of years ago. The easy way out this time was too hard to pass up!