I've been searching high and low for my first AR. It came down to the NEW M&P Sport 11 or the Ruger AR-556. I finally decided on the Ruger because of the 1:8 twist barrel. But finding one has become very difficult. I got an email today the New M&P Sport 11 was back in stock. I'd like to hear from those of you that have one or both rifles. What do you think ? Would you wait for the Ruger or jump on the M&P ? Thanks, Jim

I'm in the same boat. Leaning towards the Ruger with the 1:8 twist, hammer forged barrel and milled front site. Both are available in my town and the Ruger is $50 more. The Rugers were going for under $600 online, but seem to be sold out everywhere.

I also was leaning toward the Ruger. Every time I tried to buy one they sold out and the price keeps going up. I did find them on Impact guns site for $683. I think that's to high. The new M&P seems very nice. It has a lot of the features as the Ruger and I could buy it today for a decent price. I'm just not sure about the 1:9 twist barrel. If it was 1:8 twist I would jump on it. It's a tough decision.

I had a first generation Sport with the 1:9 barrel. It was capable of 1" at 100 yds. I rarely was. There is nothing wrong with the Sport.

Both are fine manufacturers and I have products from both. All I can say is you won't go wrong with either. I do think the S&W stated warranty is better. In practice, I have not had to use either, so I can't comment on either in that regard.

As far as the twist rate, for most people, there is little difference between the two. 1:8 will allow you to go a little heavier in bullet weight but if all you plan on shooting is the most common rounds, there will be no noticeable difference. You would have to get into long range shooting to really see a difference.

That's just my 2 cents.

While I have a M&P15A that I purchased a few years ago I believe the Ruger AR15 is a better value. It has a bolt assist, chamber door cover and I like the screw down delta ring feature plus the neat design of the front sight. A few months ago they were selling for $579 plus tax at a local gun show, so if I were looking for another AR15 it would be the Ruger.

Sgtsandman is absolutely right... all the handwringing over 1:8 twist vs 1:9 twist is moot if you are going to shoot the 55gr or 62gr military ball ammo. If you are not planning to shoot 70 gr or longer, special purpose type ammo, then either twist rate is fine.

Let me ask you this... Do you have other rifles? If so, what are the twist rates on them? Most people don't know... they only argue twist rates on an AR 15 because someone on the internet told them that they should get a 1:7 twist because that is what the military uses.

Personally, I would choose the salt nitride treated barrel in the S&W over an unlined or untreated barrel of the Ruger, if I were looking at features of these two rifles.

I also would choose the Sport, or PSA, over the Ruger due to Ruger's proprietary parts... Yes, I know they say that you can replace them with standard parts, but why buy a rifle with them just to replace them when I could buy a rifle with standard parts for less money to begin with?

The Sport II has the bolt assist and the ejection port cover. The screw down delta ring has shown to be more issue than what it tries to solve over on the Ruger forum. The delta ring has worked fine for over 50 years...

This is all great information. It's brought up several good points. ie: The D ring. I have read that it is or can be an issue on the Ruger. I think I was leaning toward the Ruger and the 1:8 twist because it's a good middle of the road barrel (between 1:7 & 1:9) I probably won't be doing any long range shooting and I'll probably be like most people these days and purchase the most reasonable priced ammo I can find. I want it basically for a fun to shoot weapon and because I want one if and when the "powers that be" start restricting AR sales and ownership again. I think if I were to go to a more expensive gun I'd build it myself. That being said this will be my first AR and I need to start somewhere. Thanks for the information and keep it coming. Jim

Fellas, if you want to buy an AR-15 or any other modern sporting rifle do it now. IMO, go for the Sport II. Ruger contains proprietary parts and that screw on handguard ring is goofy.

1. The election year is fast approaching.
2. Demand is slowly increasing, prices will creep upwards.
3. Don't forget to buy magazines while they are available and readily cheap.
4. Don't forget to stock up on ammo.

I just got back from the Christmas party at my favorite LGS. The LGS had about 15 plain Colt LE something or other AR-15's that are sold. They have another 30 that are expected to sell through in two months. The owner is trying to secure more. AR-15's are out of stock or slim pickings at distributors. Gun stores are stocking up for the election year. None of them want to get caught without stock to sell (like what happened last time).

The number of panic buyers is inversely proportional to the length of time to the election. The closer to the election, the more panic buyers come out of the wood work. AR-15 prices jump overnight. When AR-15's are cleared off shelves, the panic buyers start buying everything.

When people start buying everything, magazines and ammo quickly follow. If you need magazines, replacement magazine springs, spare parts, do it now while supply is high and prices are low. During a panic a $7 regular 30 round GI magazine with a Magpul follower turns into a $100 mag.

Store shelves get cleared out first, then online retailers get cleared out. Estimate the amount of ammo you consume over a year. Stock enough ammo to support your firearms enthusiasm for 1.5 years. Remember, volume is relative to the marksman. I advise buying ammo online (SGAmmo). Buy case quantities and save some money in the long run. Handloaders, you already know the drill. Buy that keg of powder. Buy those projectiles. Buy primers. Stock up.

Once you have acquired what you need in order to insulate yourself from the inevitable election year panic, you can relax. You can watch the panic unfold. When you go the range and have ammo to shoot, the unprepared will look upon you with envy and loathing. You'll get called all sorts of names from hoarder, to gouger, to profiteer. Watch the unprepared firearms enthusiasts deride the prepared as being traitors to the cause. Watch the unprepared firearms enthusiasts advocate the equivalent of ammo & consumables socialism; wanting those who prepared to sell them ammo & consumables at pre-panic prices.

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-John

Is the Ruger's barrel unlined? If so then that would be a no go for me.

I was in the same boat. When I was shopping for my first AR, it was down to the Sport and AR-556. I've always wanted an AR, and with the political climate getting more uncertain everyday I wanted to get one while they were available. I chose the Sport for a couple reasons. Cyphertext already mentioned one with the nitirided barrel. Even though the Ruger's barrel is 1:8, it's just matte blued. I wanted something more durable. I got my Sport at the beginning of October, just before the announcement of the Sport II. Even though my Sport doesn't have the FA or DC, I still chose it over the AR-556. The 556 has an unshrouded firing pin. This may eventually become an issue since the hammer will rid the pin instead of the shroud like on the Sport (and most every other AR out there). I wasn't sold on the screw on delta ring. I've read numerous reports of the ring getting heated up and "welding" itself in place. It's also been reported to be very tight from the factory. I don't plan on changing the gas block or barrel, but the 556's gas block has the pins on top of the barrel instead of the more common under the barrel. The nut for the barrel is also a Ruger design, so that could be an issue if you ever need to replace the barrel. The trigger is also known on the 556 to be rather bad. Hickock said it felt like a gritty two stage trigger. Other videos on YouTube and on forums said it wasn't good. Hickock said the Sport's trigger was very good. With all that said, the 556 is still a good gun. All that stuff may not matter to you. However, I decided to go with the Sport.

I love Ruger products. But my AR of choice is S&W. All 4 of them. The quality is there IMHO.

Just noticed that there are no pictures of the new Sport II, so I've attached a pic of the one I just bought.

S&W makes a real nice AR. I prefer my Colt ARs, the quality is excellent. But, Smith puts out a very nice quality AR, as well, and a good value, too. I had one of the first M&P 15 when Smith introduced them several years ago. I sold that one to a friend a few years ago, and had been thinking about replacing it.

So when I saw the new Sport II, I figured I'd jump on it. Plus, I wanted to pay homage to the gun-grabbing SOBs trying to ban the things! Always nice to have an extra AR laying around. My M&P 15 was very accurate, I hope this one is too...

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NRA Life Member

The proprietary parts would be a deal breaker for me.

Beween the two, I'd take the Sport purely on the grounds that it's a better vetted and trusted AR among serious enthusiasts of the platform when they're recommending an entry-level model. Either the S&W or Ruger will likely serve you well, but I see the Sport consistently get the nod from the hardcore whereas the Ruger is rarely mentioned.

Unless it would seriously break the bank, though, I'd pay a couple hundred more and get a Colt 6920 or 6720.

Anyone happen to know if retailers are expected to get the AR-556 back in stock at some point, or about when? They are OOS EVERYWHERE except one site that says they have 5 for something like $700 I think..

This may help you choose what if any the twist rate will affect what you shoot. (See pic.) I would go for the sport (and did) . I love my Rugers, (all long guns) but in the Ar-15 platform I would take the Smith.

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Not so Free in the Free State

I just wanted to update this thread. I ordered the S&W M&P Sport II this morning. Can't wait to get it and put some rounds down range. Thanks to everyone for your input. Jim

Nice choice! You will not be disappointed!

Not sure if it was mentioned, another thing that swayed me to the S&W vs. Ruger was the trigger. With the two I compared the Smith felt a lot smoother with a crisp break and perhaps even a lighter pull than the Ruger. Even if it's the original sport, a good trigger is more important to me than 1:8 twist, dust cover, and forward "jam it good" assist.

I agree, the one I just got has a very good stock trigger. No creep, not gritty, and relatively light. One of the best out-of-the-box AR triggers I've seen.

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NRA Life Member

My new sport also has a smooth, comfortable trigger. It squeezes off nicely. I'm pleased with it.

I would buy a Colt.

If you want to spend $200 - $300 more, go for it.

I have a Sport and also a Colt LE6920MP-B. the Colt has better features, but the fit & finish on my Sport is equal to it, and shoots just as well.

This place has the Sport II for $610:

Smith and Wesson MP15 SPORT II 556 Rifle

I ordered one from Kentucky Gun Co. on Monday at the $610 price. I've seen them for as low as $605 but that didn't include shipping. It should be here next week. I can't wait to put some rounds through it.

I would vote for the Sport II. The twist issue is not an issue, as far as I am concerned.

Nothing against Colt but aren't they looking for a buyer because of bankruptcy?

Until that issue is settled, I wouldn't get a Colt.

Colt's in another round of its all-too-common financial shenanigans; production and quality remain best ever.

Colt is doing just fine, they should be out of bankruptcy at this point. They are working on ramping back up, I look to a bright future for them. I believe the civilian market will be gin to see some big positive changes in how Colt is run.

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Jack C

I agree... I'm even hearing rumors of different configs being available from Colt, such as a mid length gas system. Looks like Colt is going after the civilian market... at least until they score that next big Gov. contract.

Yep, I have a bud in the office... they really are trying to get it squared away over there.. it's not like, they didn't know what was wrong long ago, just didn't have the power to do it... things have changed

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Jack C

Glad to hear they are refocusing their strategy. Putting most of your eggs in basket is rarely a good idea in the long term. As Indian Motorcycle how that worked out for them.

That's been confirmed.

Update - Mike Pannone - Colt Light-Weight Mid-Length Prototype 16" Carbine - Soldier Systems Daily

Anybody have more info on this teaser?


Back on topic: S&W Sport II, still the best bang for the buck.

I was agonizing over those 2 AR's and a Mid MOE (at the LE/Military discount) and I just went with the Sport II today. I'm happy with my choice and now looking for an optic for it. Cant wait to shoot it! Anything that needs to be done before going to the range, like cleaning out packing grease, etc?

Strip it, clean it, inspect it, lube it, shoot it.

Helluva campaign slogan.

First time, long time....

Took the plunge today and ordered the Sport II from Ky Gun. Was really deciding between the M&P and the Ruger, but the Ruger is MIA. I wanted to give it one last shot so went to the 1,500 table show today in Virginia in the hopes of maybe at least really holding one in comparison to the new M&P. 1500 tables, NOT A SINGLE RUGER! I couldn't believe it. Decision was just made a lot simpler due to the unavailability of the Ruger unfortunately, but I'm sure I'll be happy with either one for what I'm asking it to do.

Amen brother.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

M&P and Ruger.. I love the Ruger Rifles. All of them but.. from the Model 77 series to the mini 14 to the 10/22. However, my Mini 14 has obsolete parts that I can only get from Ruger..if I can get them. It's a 180 series from 1996. Since an AR is an ever changing/ super customizable platform I would be hesitant to go with Ruger for the long term.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

I wish I had came here first to read this as I am new to the AR platforms and know little about them as I was at my LGS today in chance of scoring another Ruger LCP380 for $209 but all sold out.. so I started looking at these type of weapons which I know little and I ask which was the cheapest one they sold and they handed me the M&P 15 Sport which I did love the fit and finish of the gun and wow Smith & Wesson brand so I put it in lay away but now I feel I over payed at $650 and now S&W is releasing the Sport II at a same price so *** S&W are you doing to trolling customers .

FWIW I have a 1:12 twist Savage rifle (12 LRPV) that loves 75 gr. bullets. It fires them better than any other weight. It does fine with anything down to 50 gr. but if I go above 75 it instantly loses stabilization. But up to that point it continues to get better right up to the 75 gr. level.

I bought a Sport II today at a local retailer for $699. I asked about the Ruger 556 availability and was told that it would have to ordered and they had no idea how long I would have to wait.

Stupid me. I meant to say I have a 1:9 twist Savage. I guess I was thinking Savage 12. Sheesh! Don't get old guys. You won't like it.

I can't believe I said something that stupid. Another senior moment. I could write a book but I'd probably forget where I put it.

It's a 1:9 twist barrel that shoots 75 gr. bullets best of all. I know everyone got away from 1:12 barrels because they don't spin heavier bullets well. Really I do know that. Just ask me.