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Old 01-26-2016, 02:01 AM
Ballenxj Ballenxj is offline
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Why I chose absolute co witness Why I chose absolute co witness Why I chose absolute co witness Why I chose absolute co witness Why I chose absolute co witness  
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Starting with an Aimpoint Comp M4 I had a choice between absolute and lower 1/3 co witness. As the subject line says, I chose absolute, and here's why. Let's say something happened to your battery, or even a full malfunction of your Red Dot. I don't want to have to change my position on the rifle even a little.
My theory is that I can still use the scope as a ghost ring since the Red Dot would normally sit just over the front sight kind of like an orange sitting on a post. Therefore if necessary, just center the post in the sight picture.
Does this make any sense to you guys?
In this photo the Red Dot is exaggerated due to having to zoom my lens in for the shot, (it's really a 2 minute dot) but you can see it sitting on top of the front post if you look carefully.
I'm still trying to figure out how to get a more accurate photo of through the scope.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:35 AM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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It's a theory... and one that you can test to see if it works for you. Next time you are at the range, turn that red dot off to simulate a failure. Put a B-27 silhouette up out at 50 and 100 yards and see how you do.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:53 AM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
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This is traditionally why some choose absolute co-witness; also because some find lower-third to be distracting.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:01 AM
Ballenxj Ballenxj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
It's a theory... and one that you can test to see if it works for you. Next time you are at the range, turn that red dot off to simulate a failure. Put a B-27 silhouette up out at 50 and 100 yards and see how you do.
Great idea! I will have to do just that.

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Originally Posted by Hapworth
This is traditionally why some choose absolute co-witness; also because some find lower-third to be distracting.
These are also my thoughts. I want to keep it as least complicated as possible in a stressful situation.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:05 AM
McE McE is offline
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Do you not have a rear sight?
What's the point of a red dot if you always waste time aligning it to the top of your post?
Have you ever shot your rifle?
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:06 AM
shell627 shell627 is offline
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I went through a swat school using a eotech and a absolute cowitness.Worked fine two months later went to a carbine class did not change batteries before class.My first rotation on line batteries died I did not miss a beat going right into using iron sights.On break instructor saw me changing batteries and when told what happened he made a teaching point about always having your iron sights up and ready to use in emergency.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:38 AM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballenxj View Post
Great idea! I will have to do just that.
Once you do, share your results... See if your experience is the same as mine.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:56 AM
Ballenxj Ballenxj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McE View Post
Do you not have a rear sight?
Of course I do, Magpul flip up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McE
What's the point of a red dot if you always waste time aligning it to the top of your post?
The Red Dot is new to me, so just doing some brain picking here. Also, if you re read the OP you will see that is just for alignment so they are both the same. This way I can keep going if the dot failed, but I will refer to the Red Dot only unless there is a failure.
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Originally Posted by McE
Have you ever shot your rifle?
Of course, but not with this set up yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shell627
I went through a swat school using a eotech and a absolute cowitness.Worked fine two months later went to a carbine class did not change batteries before class.My first rotation on line batteries died I did not miss a beat going right into using iron sights.
And absolute got you through, right? This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out from those of you that have had this happen. Thanks.
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:45 PM
McE McE is offline
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Okay, in the original post you said "I don't want to have to change my position on the rifle even a little."

That is not congruent with "I will refer to the Red Dot only unless there is a failure."

The only way to keep the same position, is if you always shot as if you were shooting through your rear peep, in which case you might as well be shooting through your rear peep, in which case there is no point of that optic. Shoot iron sights if you "don't want to have to change [your] position on the rifle even a little".

The red dot is basically accurate as long as it's in your field of view, regardless of how it sits in relation to the front sight post. In actual shooting you will have the red dot floating around the front sight post, so with either absolute or 1/3, you WILL have to 'change your position on the rifle, even a little'.

If your super reliable expensive optic fails, and you do your shooting in super duper serious conditions, then you'd pop up your rear sight.
The view through the rear peep to front sight post is IDENTICAL whether your optic is absolute or 1/3.

Only relevance I see in your concerns of shooting through the optic with front sight only, with no red dot and no rear sight, is if both your red dot and your rear sight fail somehow. Veeeeeeeeery far down the list of likely stuff to happen.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:39 PM
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gwpercle gwpercle is offline
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A great man once said,
" In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice , there is. "
Before you stake your life on theory....try it out first. The results may surprise you .
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:18 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McE View Post
...What's the point of a red dot if you always waste time aligning it to the top of your post?..
Vastly improved visibility versus the iron post...
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:40 PM
McE McE is offline
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Quote:
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Vastly improved visibility versus the iron post...
Red dot above front sight post post has greater visibility than red dot on the front sight post.
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Old 01-26-2016, 03:06 PM
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ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
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No difference in cheek weld required.

Aim your red dot at something. Move your head around like a bobble-head. Notice the red dot stays on target regardless where your head moves.
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:30 PM
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The co-witness crowd always feels strongly about this.

I've never seen the need.
Put the red dot (wherever it is) on the target, and pull trigger.
I don't care where the iron sights are when the red dot is on the target.

That said, I actually prefer a low-power scope that does not rely on batteries or the general integrity of an electrical connection.
I'm an analog rifleman.
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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:41 PM
just plain joe just plain joe is offline
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I prefer to have my Aimpoint co-witness in the lower portion of the sight. My reason being this: If I use absolute co-witness, i.e. the red dot aligns with the front and rear sights, then when I bring the rifle up onto a bad guy, the front sight may obscure his hands/waist and I have lost my view of same.

With the sights in the lower portion of my sight, the red dot sits high enough above the front sight for me to see the subjects's hands.

Jm2c & YMMV.

Joe
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:22 PM
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I use lower third cowitness with fixed sights.
The dot sits right on top of the front sight post,
I get better field of view,
I don't have to worry about flipping my rear sight up if my red dot goes down,
and if my red dot goes down, I'm already on the irons...no need to move at all.
I don't see how you could be faster with an absolute witness.
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:58 PM
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Lower 1/3 is particularly useful with a small sight such as an Aimpoint Micro. The reason for this is because the tube is so small. The front sight significantly crowds the window with absolute and the distance between the tip of the front sight post and tube housing is quite limited. Larger tubes are much more forgiving with absolute.

With a larger tube like the OP has I'd be ok with absolute. However, with my H1 lower 1/3 is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.

Don't overthink cheek weld shift. Non issue.

My irons are "BUIS". H1 gets 95% of the action. I practice with irons only enough to be able, not highly proficient.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 01-26-2016 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:40 PM
Ballenxj Ballenxj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
With a larger tube like the OP has I'd be ok with absolute. However, with my H1 lower 1/3 is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks Phil, that makes sense.
I've picked up a few good ideas from you guys, like turning the dot down where I can't see it, then see how that works for me.
For the most part I plan on just using the dot.
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