|
|
01-26-2016, 02:01 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 425
Liked 33 Times in 23 Posts
|
|
Why I chose absolute co witness
Starting with an Aimpoint Comp M4 I had a choice between absolute and lower 1/3 co witness. As the subject line says, I chose absolute, and here's why. Let's say something happened to your battery, or even a full malfunction of your Red Dot. I don't want to have to change my position on the rifle even a little.
My theory is that I can still use the scope as a ghost ring since the Red Dot would normally sit just over the front sight kind of like an orange sitting on a post. Therefore if necessary, just center the post in the sight picture.
Does this make any sense to you guys?
In this photo the Red Dot is exaggerated due to having to zoom my lens in for the shot, (it's really a 2 minute dot) but you can see it sitting on top of the front post if you look carefully.
I'm still trying to figure out how to get a more accurate photo of through the scope.
|
01-26-2016, 10:35 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 4,670
Likes: 1,075
Liked 3,823 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
|
It's a theory... and one that you can test to see if it works for you. Next time you are at the range, turn that red dot off to simulate a failure. Put a B-27 silhouette up out at 50 and 100 yards and see how you do.
|
01-26-2016, 10:53 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,829
Likes: 3,902
Liked 5,900 Times in 2,542 Posts
|
|
This is traditionally why some choose absolute co-witness; also because some find lower-third to be distracting.
|
01-26-2016, 11:01 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 425
Liked 33 Times in 23 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext
It's a theory... and one that you can test to see if it works for you. Next time you are at the range, turn that red dot off to simulate a failure. Put a B-27 silhouette up out at 50 and 100 yards and see how you do.
|
Great idea! I will have to do just that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth
This is traditionally why some choose absolute co-witness; also because some find lower-third to be distracting.
|
These are also my thoughts. I want to keep it as least complicated as possible in a stressful situation.
|
01-26-2016, 11:05 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 891
Likes: 82
Liked 381 Times in 234 Posts
|
|
Do you not have a rear sight?
What's the point of a red dot if you always waste time aligning it to the top of your post?
Have you ever shot your rifle?
|
01-26-2016, 11:06 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: middle Tn
Posts: 1,401
Likes: 3,918
Liked 3,237 Times in 906 Posts
|
|
I went through a swat school using a eotech and a absolute cowitness.Worked fine two months later went to a carbine class did not change batteries before class.My first rotation on line batteries died I did not miss a beat going right into using iron sights.On break instructor saw me changing batteries and when told what happened he made a teaching point about always having your iron sights up and ready to use in emergency.
|
01-26-2016, 11:38 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 4,670
Likes: 1,075
Liked 3,823 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballenxj
Great idea! I will have to do just that.
|
Once you do, share your results... See if your experience is the same as mine.
|
01-26-2016, 11:56 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 425
Liked 33 Times in 23 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by McE
Do you not have a rear sight?
|
Of course I do, Magpul flip up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McE
What's the point of a red dot if you always waste time aligning it to the top of your post?
|
The Red Dot is new to me, so just doing some brain picking here. Also, if you re read the OP you will see that is just for alignment so they are both the same. This way I can keep going if the dot failed, but I will refer to the Red Dot only unless there is a failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McE
Have you ever shot your rifle?
|
Of course, but not with this set up yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shell627
I went through a swat school using a eotech and a absolute cowitness.Worked fine two months later went to a carbine class did not change batteries before class.My first rotation on line batteries died I did not miss a beat going right into using iron sights.
|
And absolute got you through, right? This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out from those of you that have had this happen. Thanks.
|
01-26-2016, 12:45 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 891
Likes: 82
Liked 381 Times in 234 Posts
|
|
Okay, in the original post you said "I don't want to have to change my position on the rifle even a little."
That is not congruent with "I will refer to the Red Dot only unless there is a failure."
The only way to keep the same position, is if you always shot as if you were shooting through your rear peep, in which case you might as well be shooting through your rear peep, in which case there is no point of that optic. Shoot iron sights if you "don't want to have to change [your] position on the rifle even a little".
The red dot is basically accurate as long as it's in your field of view, regardless of how it sits in relation to the front sight post. In actual shooting you will have the red dot floating around the front sight post, so with either absolute or 1/3, you WILL have to 'change your position on the rifle, even a little'.
If your super reliable expensive optic fails, and you do your shooting in super duper serious conditions, then you'd pop up your rear sight.
The view through the rear peep to front sight post is IDENTICAL whether your optic is absolute or 1/3.
Only relevance I see in your concerns of shooting through the optic with front sight only, with no red dot and no rear sight, is if both your red dot and your rear sight fail somehow. Veeeeeeeeery far down the list of likely stuff to happen.
|
01-26-2016, 01:39 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,838
Likes: 7,394
Liked 8,050 Times in 3,652 Posts
|
|
A great man once said,
" In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice , there is. "
Before you stake your life on theory....try it out first. The results may surprise you .
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-26-2016, 02:18 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,829
Likes: 3,902
Liked 5,900 Times in 2,542 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by McE
...What's the point of a red dot if you always waste time aligning it to the top of your post?..
|
Vastly improved visibility versus the iron post...
|
01-26-2016, 02:40 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 891
Likes: 82
Liked 381 Times in 234 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth
Vastly improved visibility versus the iron post...
|
Red dot above front sight post post has greater visibility than red dot on the front sight post.
|
01-26-2016, 03:06 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,661
Likes: 7,937
Liked 20,623 Times in 5,958 Posts
|
|
No difference in cheek weld required.
Aim your red dot at something. Move your head around like a bobble-head. Notice the red dot stays on target regardless where your head moves.
|
01-26-2016, 04:30 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 13
Liked 831 Times in 390 Posts
|
|
The co-witness crowd always feels strongly about this.
I've never seen the need.
Put the red dot (wherever it is) on the target, and pull trigger.
I don't care where the iron sights are when the red dot is on the target.
That said, I actually prefer a low-power scope that does not rely on batteries or the general integrity of an electrical connection.
I'm an analog rifleman.
__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?
|
01-26-2016, 05:41 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SW PA
Posts: 368
Likes: 255
Liked 466 Times in 206 Posts
|
|
I prefer to have my Aimpoint co-witness in the lower portion of the sight. My reason being this: If I use absolute co-witness, i.e. the red dot aligns with the front and rear sights, then when I bring the rifle up onto a bad guy, the front sight may obscure his hands/waist and I have lost my view of same.
With the sights in the lower portion of my sight, the red dot sits high enough above the front sight for me to see the subjects's hands.
Jm2c & YMMV.
Joe
|
01-26-2016, 06:22 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 130
Likes: 3
Liked 210 Times in 65 Posts
|
|
I use lower third cowitness with fixed sights.
The dot sits right on top of the front sight post,
I get better field of view,
I don't have to worry about flipping my rear sight up if my red dot goes down,
and if my red dot goes down, I'm already on the irons...no need to move at all.
I don't see how you could be faster with an absolute witness.
|
01-26-2016, 09:58 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,661
Likes: 7,937
Liked 20,623 Times in 5,958 Posts
|
|
Lower 1/3 is particularly useful with a small sight such as an Aimpoint Micro. The reason for this is because the tube is so small. The front sight significantly crowds the window with absolute and the distance between the tip of the front sight post and tube housing is quite limited. Larger tubes are much more forgiving with absolute.
With a larger tube like the OP has I'd be ok with absolute. However, with my H1 lower 1/3 is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.
Don't overthink cheek weld shift. Non issue.
My irons are "BUIS". H1 gets 95% of the action. I practice with irons only enough to be able, not highly proficient.
Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 01-26-2016 at 10:09 PM.
|
01-26-2016, 11:40 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 425
Liked 33 Times in 23 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil
With a larger tube like the OP has I'd be ok with absolute. However, with my H1 lower 1/3 is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.
|
Thanks Phil, that makes sense.
I've picked up a few good ideas from you guys, like turning the dot down where I can't see it, then see how that works for me.
For the most part I plan on just using the dot.
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|