I'm looking to purchase my first AR-15 which I plan on being an M&P15 due primarily to S&W's reputation for quality and cost-effectiveness.

My question is this: Is there much difference between ...

A) Getting an M&P15 ORC (model 811003) and buying my own backup iron sights, or
B) Getting an M&P15-T (model 811041) which comes with its own backup sights

From what I can tell, the only difference between the two would be the hand guard, but for either model I'd likely swap it out. The costs for A vs. B look to be about the same, too. And I'm planning on mounting a red dot.

Thanks for helping a newbie.

If S&W doesn't offer a configuration to your liking, I'd consider looking at BCM which offers a wide array of configurations. Top quality.

You sound like a money conscious buyer. Buying a rifle just to start replacing parts isn't a path to save money.

There is a lot more difference between the M&P 15T and the OR than just a hand guard... The barrels are different, the lowers are different, the T barrel is free floated....

I think you might want to slow down and look at things much closer than just the price tag...

I have owned a lot of AR 15's but find little difference in the entry level AR and the premium AR's. The "fit and finish " on a battle rifle is of little concern to me. I now have only one and that is a S&W M&P 15 T. Works every time and is accurate and robust. Get one and enjoy. If you don't want to hang a lot of **** on the rails, just go for the S&W Sport model and have a great shooter that will provide a lifetime of fun and protection.

Plus one on the Sport. I recently purchased the Sport II and it's awesome. I shot my first 200 rounds the other day without any issues. It was dead on accurate right out of the box. No sight adjustment needed. I'm very impressed. The fit and finish are great. Overall it's a excellent rifle. All I plan to do is add a scope and shoot the c**p out of it.

Nice!!! I too purchased the sport II recently, planning to add a sparc 2 soon. I just gotta get to the range and start shooting it...

I agree with Phil. Picture the AR-15 that you want in your mind. Imagine how you want it decked out: grip, stock, forend, iron sights, gas system length. Go buy the rifle that has as many of the build details you want that fits in your budget.

I'm living proof. I took a $500 M&P 15-Sport Gen1 and dumped a couple thousand into it over time. Dumbest thing I've ever done. I should have just been patient, put some thought into it, and bought exactly what I wanted from the get-go.

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-John

I was on the Fence about my first AR15 purchase..
Went to my local Cabela's today and they had the Sport 2 as well as the Ruger 556 in stock...
Handled both and went with the sport 2..
Can't wait to get her to the range but weather is terrible today so hopefully this weekend I will give the gun a good run...

I really like the colt 6920 that comes with no furniture. put whatever your want on it and don't waste money.

Colt LE6920 AR-15 5.56/223 Carbine with No Furniture or Stock - Hyatt Gun Store

I don't know what people are looking for in an AR that they think it takes a lot of money to make it happen. That can certainly work but there are almost always cheaper ways of getting where you want to go. I bought an SKS back in 1992. It hasn't had a problem with more than 20 rounds in all that time and I've run thousands of rounds of cheap ammo through it. The problems I had were ammo related and it was easy to prove that. I waited too long and didn't get mine at the really cheap prices. I paid $100 for mine. The ammo was even cheaper and I've been shooting the heck out of that rifle ever since. I only bought an AR to take advantage of more modern ammo loads. Specifically I wanted to have ammo that wasn't prone to going right through a door and half a mile down the road like my 7.62 x 39 did. Still I can hit minute of man at 250 yards with that SKS and it is as reliable as it gets.

I do understand that some cheap AR's have problems. But my S&W hasn't given me any trouble yet. I'll reserve judgement until after I've fired about 500 rounds through it but right now it looks to run smooth and shoot accurate. I don't know what else to look for. Everything is where it's supposed to be.

I do know there are some not so well made AT's on the market. I've watched people work on them at the range for hours and once in a great while they even got to shoot a round or two. But I'm not having any issues with my M&P Sport 15.

It typically starts with using a 1x red dot and an A2 front sight. Many find that they don't like the A2 front sight in the sight picture. This leads to buying a freefloat handguard to support a folding front sight and of course a new low profile gas block. A quality hanguard, good pair of steel folding sights and gas block can cost $300 or more. This also requires the purchase of a reciever vice block and AR armorers wrench for the barrel nut or have a gunsmith do the work. So now you're up to around $400 or more and start scratching your head why you were in a hurry to buy that $599 rifle cuz now you're up to a $1,000. And that new Magpul stock looks pretty good too, don't it? Now maybe somone will come along and say they got a great deal on a $19.99 Tactical Death Squad handguard, $15 PTS plastic sights, and all they needed was a claw hammer and vice grips to do the work... but ya know... And of course there's always the option of just hacking off the top half of the A2 front sight.

AR quality add-ons aren't cheap. Just my Aimpoint and Wilson Combat trigger was close to a $1,000. But in relation to shooting costs (ammo) a quality optic and trigger are insignificant costs for those who actually shoot thier rifles. Just a couple thousand rounds of M855 or M193 will be $700 delivered... and that's a never ending cost.

If it's just going to be a toy to go to the range once or twice a year and take pics to post on the Net.... that's one thing. But for those who are genuinely interested in learning how to shoot the rifle and practice, there's not a whole lot to be gained by handwringing over the initial price of the rifle and other quality components.

Purchase what best suits the intended purpose.
Happy AR hunting.

Yup, this is exactly correct and great advice. Save up for the rifle you really want and minimize the mods, that's the most prudent thing to do.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

I wanted an entry level AR and went with the Sport II as my first. I have about 100 trouble free rounds thru it so far. I'm just a weekend warrior, not a soldier, so the Sport suits me fine.

If I buy another rifle it will be a difficult choice as there are so many available. It has to be light, as the original Colt civilian models were. I have no use for flashlights, lasers etc. but wouldn't mind a rail in case I change my mind later. It has to be a name brand, like Colt or S&W.

Thanks for all the feedback. Part of my thinking revolved around the notion that the Sport and Sport II weren't good enough to justify the lower price (I can afford the full M&P15 or M&P15T, so I figured, go big or go home). From what I'm reading here -- and what others have said elsewhere -- is that the Sport II is pretty darn good, and considering this would be my first AR15 and the difference between the Sport II and ORC is about $250 or so, it might be better to go with the Sport II and make sure I have a quality optic on top.

It depends on what you want... The Sport II, OR, and the 15T are all different from each other... again, look a little deeper than just the price tag.

Hi Guys,
I am a first time Noob, I would just like to say I bought my M&P15 the other day at a Gun Shop for $500.00. It was bought there 2 months ago and as I far as I can tell probably never shot. The Guy traded it in. I am so glad he did :-) I bought a Refurbished Nikon P223 3X32 on line for $79.00. I can not tell any difference in it and a new one. Nikon refurbishes them. There was not a scratch on mine. The box it comes in is plain white stating Refurbished by NIKON in red. I bought a Millett one piece mount at Wally World for $29.99. The Millett mount was perfect. The front sight does not show through the scope in any way. I like the fact of keeping the M&P15 Sport stock without moving anything or taking anything off of a perfectly great shooting AR. The Millett one piece is high enough to also get over the back sight also. If it stops raining, I plan on setting it up. I will post the results :-) I am retired and did not have very much to put into a fancy AR. I now have $608.99 plus tax in a great gun with a great scope. If money is tight on you like it is with me, This is a great way to go.

If you have that kind of money to spend more power to you. My problem is that I have a bunch of other guns too and they need to fed and shot and cared for and you can't be good unless you practice. I spent $3500 one year just on .22 ammo. Where did I go wrong? My point was and it's still valid is that you don't "need" to have the best trigger on the planet. You don't need to sink more money in a single gun than most people put into a boat. I have an M500 Mercedes. Do think that's cheap? Then there's my Pro 4X Xterra. And my ATV. And a whole safe full of other guns and ammo and various other valuables. And there's my cameras and my video equipment and my audio recording equipment. And my house of course. We all make choices. You made yours. Don't pressure others into making the same ones.

It ain't about the money. It's never about the money. It's about the quality. And sometimes quality comes cheap. Ask any Toyota Corolla owner from the 1970's.

Aren't you assuming that there's no such thing as a quality AR at a reasonable price? A lot of people think the Sport is that quality AR for a reasonable price. It goes bang every time and it's accurate.

Why are you posting in this section anyway? Clearly it isn't to talk about your Sport. Are you just here to tell us what you have and why we need to be exactly like you? I think you need to buy a nice Mercedes because you just can't imagine how much better it is than pretty much everything else on the road. Why am I saying this? I figured since we weren't on topic we might as well go all in for a "mine's bigger than yours" round. That's what you did. Are you really just here to bash the choice the rest of us made? What kind of car do you drive? Do you have a genuine off road vehicle like an Xterra? What about your ATV? None of those things are M&P Sports either. Just like your super impressive $2000 rifle. Care to compare how well it does at 500 yards up against my Savage 12 LRPV .223? Unless you've shot a 1" group at that distance you might want to say no, you don't want to compare. And you really don't want to ask about my house.

No, not at all.

Between the considered rifles, Sport, OR and 15T, it's not a difference in quality, all are good quality, but rather the type configuration suited to the shooter. Do you understand the difference because your entire post indicates that you don't?

It's also important to understand the investment in quality optics, trigger, or if nothing else just the ongoing cost of shooting. These costs can be significantly greater than the initial price tag of the rifle, which glarringly illustrates the short-sightedness of somone buying a rifle in a configuration they don't really want just to save a few bucks.

So whether it's a Sport, OR or 15T, it's not a difference in quality but the configuration that best suits the shooter. In the big picture the price difference isn't all that great anyway, so why not buy the right rifle for you to begin with? If that's the Sport, fine. It's a great rifle for those who want that particular configuration. But buying something just because it's less expensive quite often doesn't end up that way.

Hope that helps.

It's really funny when I read about people really wanting to get an AR on the cheap. The thing is if you actually shoot it, which it's meant to do, you will burn up the cost of the gun many, many times over in ammo costs. If/when you actually shoot the gun, you'll soon realize the initial investment on your rifle is just a small portion of your total costs that you'll spend on it.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

CJ, Phil has never knocked the Sport... He questions those who purchase a Sport and then their first question on the forum is "how do I get rid of this front sight post"... The OP clearly is looking at the price tag only, because he is not even recognizing the differences between the three rifles he is talking about.

Oh, and by the way, Phil is also here because he is a Moderator... I'm guessing he explained that portion to ya in a PM...

What I see is someone not talking about getting rid of a A2 post but upgrading triggers, buying sights that are more expensive than the rifle, and accusing others of not knowing anything. BTW Phil didn't send me a PM. Maybe you should remember that you aren't a moderator. I'll say what I think and if they don't like it they can ban me. I never insulted anyone. I just think it's a bit much to be talking about upgrades that cost $2000 when someone just wanted to get rid of the post. It's a relatively minor operation to get rid of that A2. It doesn't cost that much either. The whole point of the AR configuration is to be able to get what you want and if that means getting a basic rifle that you want to modify slightly then that's what you can do. BTW I don't intend to put any sight on my AR. The irons work just fine for the intended purpose of my rifle.

I bought exactly what I wanted. I didn't buy an AR for many years because I couldn't find what I wanted which was an entry level rifle that works well. That's all I need in a rifle. I have plenty of other rifles for other purposes believe me. I bought that rifle because it will shoot modern ammo that won't likely kill a neighbor half a mile down the road. Yes I intend to use it as a HD rifle. People who think it won't serve that purpose amaze me. If it shoots consistently it will do that job and from all I've read the Sport does just that. People trash the trigger it came with but I was shooting blades of grass in two from 35 yards with ease. Some of us learned to shoot with bad triggers and don't need a 4 oz. target trigger on a HD rifle. It just takes some practice to know how it breaks. Practice is always key with every weapon.

Yes if you wanted something else you should have bought something else. I've been telling 10/22 owners that for years. They buy a rifle then stick half of it in a box because they replaced the parts. Why not buy one already built? They do exist. The very same situation goes with an AR. I know that. But if you want a basic 10/22 or AR with a couple of minor mods then you don't need to upgrade everything else.

And don't act like there was no "you gotta buy more" because Phil had an entire post that said nothing else from "it starts with" then ends up with a spending $1000 on a sight and a trigger. Then there's the "just going to take photos to post on the net" stuff. Give me a break. That's not "you are OK with what you wanted" it's "you will need this eventually". Well I won't be changing my trigger or adding a top level sight. I don't need one. I have excellent vision and I was taught to hit what I shot at with iron sights. A WWII sniper I knew said if you could see it you can shoot it with iron sights. And I saw him drop crows at 300 yards with no scope. Don't assume everyone here is a newbie. They aren't. I won 13 out of the last 15 shooting competitions I was in. But there's always someone trying to tell me I don't know anything. Just for kicks I'll throw in a target I shot with a .22. Shooting is the same as far as accuracy goes unless you get into a much more powerful round btw. This is only 4 shots instead of 5 because I ran out of ammo. I shot this with a $300 rifle BTW.

That's quite enough. This section is about ARs and related. It's not about cars, homes, ATV, .22 rimfire or suffering personal ego issues. Enough.