Having trouble deciding which M&P 15 to purchase

[Tanglefoot]

Could someone explain to me the difference in the M&P 15, I've seen a lot of varieties and I'm not quite sure what the difference is. I'm looking to purchase one within the next month or so and would like to get the most bang for my buck.
Yes seeing as I'm more of a pistol man in this will be my first AR of any sort I would like to get opinions on which AR-15 would be best to personalize and also I would like to know which one is worth the money.

[TexasM&PBandit]

I'm no expert. But Bang for the Buck, M&P Sport II 5.56MM 16" Barrel MagPul MOE -LOK 10305. Has better furniture, and I ain't talking about a recliner. $499 delivered if you look.



Hard to beat that!!!! However, if you don't want Bang for the Buck someone else can chime in.

Good Luck!

Bandit.......




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The best bang for the buck is usually the model that best meets your wants/needs out of the box.

The two issues I see here most often with newbies are those who buy a Sport and soon discover they want a free float handguard and a folding front sight to remove it from view with their red dot optic or low power magnified scope at 1-2x.

Handguard and front sight options are worth the effort to understand prior to purchase.

[Kadonny]

It's hard to detail all the model since there are quite a few, but as Chattanoogaphil said the biggest thing to think about is if you want a specific type of rail and if you want the A2 front sight post. Once you decide on those issues, choosing a model is easier.

[wayne2356]

I bought a Sport I Magpul edition and 3 months later changed the rail and butstock for other Magpul products. Upgraded

I wish I had bought a AR without the front sight ... but its fine

1st) Decide what you want to use the gun for
2nd) price range
3rd) possible add on's or accessories you might want to add

[cyphertext]

I like the black ones... get the black one.

You basically have said something along the lines of "I like Fords. Which Ford should I buy?" with no info on how you intend to use it. Couldn't tell ya if a Ford Fiesta or an F150 would be more suited to your needs based on the info provided.

[Dad_Roman]

Oooo....Oooo....I like the black ones!

[hugger-4641]

I had to learn some of this the hard way also. I bought a stock MP Sport II for $500. Only after this did I educate myself about the various options and configurations available for the AR-15 and realized that I wanted some different features. I've since "built" an inexpensive custom AR to suit a specific purpose. I have about the same investment in it as the Sport II except: It has chrome lined 1/7 barrel, 15" free float key mod hand guard, tactical light, folding vertical grip, and plenty of places to add other goodies if I want to like laser, flashlight, illuminator, etc. You can buy the M&P T that already has the free float guard and a few other features for about $1000. Or you can spend even more if you want to pay for certain type of finish or a name like Colt, Sig, Daniel Defense, etc. Nothing against those brands and I've shot a few of the other "high end" names as well. Other than fit and finish, they don't perform any better than the Sport II. If I could do it all over, I'd still buy the Sport II because it serves a different purpose than the one I "built". What has already been said here is true; figure out what you want to do with the rifle and then buy or build one that suits that purpose. Or you can just buy something and then keep throwing money at it to change features and accessories until you are happy with it.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Just wanted to add... there's also lots of very experienced AR shooters who wouldn't have an AR without the A2 front sight. So it's not like the A2 front sight is just a purchase mistake by newbies who don't know any better, but rather for the newbie to be aware of front sight options and how that dovetails with handguard choices.

[C J]

You can get the optics ready Sport II which doesn't have the front sight post and it costs about the same as the regular Sport II. As far as the handguard goes I have no problems with accuracy with mine without the free floating design. I did find I wanted a better handguard to attach things to and to deal with heat issues better. I spent about $30 on a basic Magpul design and a few more dollars for the tool needed to change the handguard so it wasn't exactly a deal breaker because I replaced the OEM handguard.

As for the front sight post I don't think I'd want a rifle without one even though I thought I might for a short time. Being able to fall back on iron sights is a big plus IMO. You just never know what a red dot might fail and that includes models that are very expensive and durable. I just like the idea of having a backup.

[Rastoff]

Take a look on the S&W site. Scroll through the M&P15s and see which one catches your fancy most. Then have a frank discussion with yourself asking what it is about this particular model(s) draws you in.

Then ask what you want to do. Does that model suit your intended purpose?

Once you've narrowed it down, come back and list a couple models for us. Then we can be more accurate with our help.

[MichiganScott]

Put me down as another fan of the A2 front sight. I have it on rifles with both scopes and red dots. I'm even a fan of carry handle rear sights when I get a burning desire to use irons. The one under my bed is so equipped.

[Flash_80]

Originally Posted by Dad_Roman

Oooo....Oooo....I like the black ones!

He didn't do nothing

[Whitwabit]

I think the best bang for the buck is one of the Tactical models for the first AR .. only thing left to get would be a red dot or a scope .. figure out which forearm you want and find the Magpul or Troy Tactical model you want ..

then after shooting for awhile and finding things you would like on the AR different then you have start the slow process of acquiring parts for a build ..

I bought a tactical model from Bud's and got a great deal with my Veteran discount in my safe under 800 bucks .. my first AR .. now my next is already in the works but I will build this one ..

[hugger-4641]

Originally Posted by C J

You can get the optics ready Sport II which doesn't have the front sight post and it costs about the same as the regular Sport II. As far as the handguard goes I have no problems with accuracy with mine without the free floating design. I did find I wanted a better handguard to attach things to and to deal with heat issues better. I spent about $30 on a basic Magpul design and a few more dollars for the tool needed to change the handguard so it wasn't exactly a deal breaker because I replaced the OEM handguard.

As for the front sight post I don't think I'd want a rifle without one even though I thought I might for a short time. Being able to fall back on iron sights is a big plus IMO. You just never know what a red dot might fail and that includes models that are very expensive and durable. I just like the idea of having a backup.

Nothing against the A2, I kept it on my Sport II, but you can still have iron sites with a free float hand guard. Some sights like the EOTech and some red dots will let you look right thru and use the irons, or you can use see-thru mounts or risers with other scopes that will let you use the irons too.

[C J]

Nothing against the A2, I kept it on my Sport II, but you can still have iron sites with a free float hand guard. Some sights like the EOTech and some red dots will let you look right thru and use the irons, or you can use see-thru mounts or risers with other scopes that will let you use the irons too.

True but to me that defeats the whole purpose of buying a rifle without the front sight post. I guess it's good to have options. I just don't have any problems with my A2 post. I still use a red dot with no problems. What you say makes sense if you want to be able to choose different setups after you buy but IMO a person should be able to decide what they want ahead of time. That A2 sight is on there pretty solid for one thing. No getting it banged around and off zero unless it takes a serious whack. Just saying.

[Disabled1]

Build one instead. That way you will have everything on it that YOU want!
BTW, you can build one even better than ANY M&P, IMHO. In fact, better than ANY entry level AR made out there.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by Disabled1

Build one instead. That way you will have everything on it that YOU want!
BTW, you can build one even better than ANY M&P, IMHO. In fact, better than ANY entry level AR made out there.

You will be hard pressed to build a better AR than the Sport for less than $500...

[Kadonny]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

You will be hard pressed to build a better AR than the Sport for less than $500...

Yup, you just can't buy all parts needed that cheaply. Start addding it up, they total over $500 pretty quickly. The other issue with a build is you want to use better parts when doing it yourself. So you buy a better trigger, a better charging handle, better handguard etc, etc. Before you know it you're bumping up on $1000 not $500.

[C J]

hat way you will have everything on it that YOU want

Except a lifetime warranty and a big name company standing behind the whole gun. I thought about building my own but I thought I'd be better off buying from an established gun maker like S&W. They make a pretty good rifle IMO. Mine is accurate and, so far, dependable. Melonite treatment (S&W says their treatment is identical to Melonite without the brand name price tag) has done well in testing. I can't see my rifle rusting that easily. It seems to be treated pretty well IMO. I've been around guns for darn near 60 years. I've seen the good and the bad from multi-thousand dollar Italian shotguns and that's 1960's dollars to throwaway Saturday night specials that rust before you get them home from the store like the 1950's Berettas and Yugo SKS bores which are not chrome lined. The Sport seems to have a good finish IMO.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Lifetime warranty is of course attractive.

That said, keep in mind the AR15 is a modular rifle. There's a zillion manufactures making every part in every imaginable configuration for the platform. The tools and knowledge required to fix, replace or alter configuration is minimal and parts are relatively cheap compared to something like an S&W revolver.

[hdwhit]

ChatanoogaPhil wrote:
The best bang for the buck is usually the model that best meets your wants/needs out of the box.

I think that's some of the best advice I've seen.

There are dozens (maybe more) threads here where someone has barely gotten their M&P-15 home before they're posting about changing the handguards, grip, sawing off the front sight, etc.

[Disabled1]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

You will be hard pressed to build a better AR than the Sport for less than $500...

About $480 for the PSA bought ALL Magpul MOE furniture build. Looks like a better built AR deal to me.

PSA 16" M4 Nitride 1:7 MOE BLK Freedom Upper With BCG & CH - 508045

PSA AR-15 Complete Blem Lower Magpul MOE Edition - Black, No Magazine - 37403

Magpul MBUS Back UP Sight Gen 2 - Rear - MAG248

Magpul PMAG 30 GEN M2 MOE MAG571

[walkin' trails]

I'm not all that savvy of all the M&P15 configurations that are available, but recently noted the new 15T with the extended slimmer free-float tube looked promising. I like the longer rails. I don't care if he gun does or doesn't have a fixed front sight, but haven't seen any of the longer, free float rails that work with them.

For a new AR shooter, I offer the same advice as with a new pistol shooter - sink your money into ammo and training after acquiring a pistol. Hold off on the accessories (other than decent gun leather and something to secure the weapon if not being carried) until the shooter has gained a competent level of proficiency.

If the AR is only going to be used for plinking, a Sport is probably more than adequate. When buying a Sport, one gets a gun that can be upgraded with a new upper, barrel, pistol grip, sights, rail, optics, light, etc. Or, the shooter can go out and buy a model with more features that are standard. It simply depends on how a person is comfortable spending their money.

In terms of the fixed front sight in relation to optics, it really shouldn't matter if properly mounted. If a shooter is using the red dot as it was intended, the front sight assembly should not be an issue. A portion of the sight picture depends on how one holds the gun as well as how one uses the sights. As a LE trainer, I've seen some shooters who just couldn't comprehend that the front sight was not needed when using the optic. For others, it doesn't bother them. My employer issues 10.5 and 14 inch ARs with fixed front sights. Personally owned ARs are allowed, and the two options have flip-up fronts - one uses a free-float rail while the other a flip-up on the gas block. While I prefer the flip-up front sights, I do most of my shooting with a 10.5, fixed front sight assembly, with a Sig Romeo4M. If the dot constantly appears in the center of your front sight assembly, adjust your cheek weld.

If you're wanting an AR for home defense or competition, take stock of what you believe you need for the task and decide what package you want. For home defense or any AR usage, I prefer the minimalist approach - a red dot, a simple weapons light, and a sling.

For what it's worth, I've seen a few M&P Sport Is show up on my ranges that were being used for LE. They have always shot better than the shooters. The only problems associated were actually caused by all the gadgets and add-ons that were attached without reading the accompanying instructions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by Disabled1

About $480 for the PSA bought ALL Magpul MOE furniture build. Looks like a better built AR deal to me.

PSA 16" M4 Nitride 1:7 MOE BLK Freedom Upper With BCG & CH - 508045

PSA AR-15 Complete Blem Lower Magpul MOE Edition - Black, No Magazine - 37403

Magpul MBUS Back UP Sight Gen 2 - Rear - MAG248

Magpul PMAG 30 GEN M2 MOE MAG571

Blem lower.... right off the bat you picked stuff that did not pass QC.

[Dad_Roman]

My recent fav...

DeltaTeamTactical Pistol kit 220
DeltaTeamTactical BCG 80
Run by Primary and pickup an Anderson for 30 bucks
Throw in a Shockwave Blade for 35 from DTT for giggles.

Im out little under 375 w/sh and a dab of tax at Primary.

Do you have to wait on sale prices? Of course. (they have gotten ridiculous lately havent they?)

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

You will be hard pressed to build a better AR than the Sport for less than $500...

In the past I would agree with you, but not so much right now.

The market has been flooded with AR stuff. They're so cheap right now you can build for right at $500. It is better quality than the M&P Sport II? No, but it will be pretty close.

One problem with building for a new guy, is they don't know what they want. How could they? They have no experience which is why they come here asking questions.

As Phil stated, there is a plethora of stuff. Barrel length, twist rate, material, civ vs MIL Spec buffer tube, free float vs drop in forearm, type of butt stock, billet or cast, type of material for BCG, gas system length,...the list goes on and on. Get it wrong and you're quickly surpassing the budget.

And if you do get it wrong and want to sell it, it's more difficult with a built rifle. It has no brand name backing it up. Therefore, it has no verifiable history or reliability stats. It's just your word that it's OK. Buy an M&P15 instead and if you don't like it, it's still an M&P backed by S&W. Much easier to sell. Or at least easier to sell while not taking a huge hit on price.

No, Phil's advice is spot on, buy the already made one that is as close as you can get to what you want. It's cheaper in the long run.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

In the past I would agree with you, but not so much right now.

The market has been flooded with AR stuff. They're so cheap right now you can build for right at $500. It is better quality than the M&P Sport II? No, but it will be pretty close.

That italicized part is the kicker though... If I can't build better at a lower cost than what I can purchase, there is not a lot of incentive to build for me.

[Disabled1]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Blem lower.... right off the bat you picked stuff that did not pass QC.

Ok, there are others from $10-$30 thare NOT blems. I can choose one of them and STILL be under $500!

Here's one that's not a BLEM, and STILL under $500!
PSA AR-15 Complete Classic Lower - No Magazine - 7244
Or, this one. Still under $500!
PSA AR15 MOE EPT Lower, Black - 7780991

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by Disabled1

Ok, there are others from $10-$30 thare NOT blems. I can choose one of them and STILL be under $500!

Here's one that's not a BLEM, and STILL under $500!
PSA AR-15 Complete Classic Lower - No Magazine - 7244
Or, this one. Still under $500!
PSA AR15 MOE EPT Lower, Black - 7780991

But are they better quality? Specs look ok, but it is still a budget line. I know PSA has had some assembly QC issues in the past... not sure if that is still an issue, but seems strange to me that you can buy complete, assembled upper and lowers for the same price as you can buy their rifle kits and have to assemble the lower yourself.

[Rastoff]

There are some who only see the price tag. They think that a lower price means a better deal. Then there are those who just have to have the super most mostness of anything. They are happy to pay a premium because they think that higher price means it's better quality.

Just because it costs less doesn't mean it's a better deal.
Just because it costs more doesn't mean it has better quality.

In my opinion, the M&P15 is the better deal for a new shooter. It has both low price and good quality backed by the second best warranty in the business. You can't get that from PSA.

[hdrolling]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

But are they better quality? Specs look ok, but it is still a budget line. I know PSA has had some assembly QC issues in the past... not sure if that is still an issue, but seems strange to me that you can buy complete, assembled upper and lowers for the same price as you can buy their rifle kits and have to assemble the lower yourself.

I would compare PSA and S&W to both be budget level quality, but the sport is still only going to have a 1-9 or 1-8 twist.

And the $500 sport is only going to have milspec furniture were you can buy PSA kits with the magpul already in the kit.

I would never personally build a PSA rifle for myself, but I would never buy another S&W sport either. Mines getting passed down to my oldest son.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by hdrolling

I would compare PSA and S&W to both be budget level quality, but the sport is still only going to have a 1-9 or 1-8 twist.

And the $500 sport is only going to have milspec furniture were you can buy PSA kits with the magpul already in the kit.

I would never personally build a PSA rifle for myself, but I would never buy another S&W sport either. Mines getting passed down to my oldest son.

Yes, I agree... both are made for a price point. I don't see the twist rate as an issue though... If you are buying the ammo that requires a 1:7 twist, you aren't buying a Sport, or PSA for that matter.

I don't have an issue with the standard furniture... just wish S&W would have used standard furniture with heat shields. More of that building to a price point.

I wouldn't buy another Sport either. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great rifle for the price. I also think it is best left stock. It does what I need it to do... goes bang when I pull the trigger and puts the round in the vicinity of where I was aiming at.

[agksimon]

I have the M&P Sport 2, optics ready and I mounted a Vortex Spitfire 3X prism scope on it. If the battery takes a ****, the lens is etched and gives a black reticle and useable that way. I'm not concerned about damage to the scope, as it's just a range gun.

[Disabled1]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

But are they better quality? Specs look ok, but it is still a budget line. I know PSA has had some assembly QC issues in the past... not sure if that is still an issue, but seems strange to me that you can buy complete, assembled upper and lowers for the same price as you can buy their rifle kits and have to assemble the lower yourself.

Ok, if not PSA, there are MANY others that make the same quality as S&W, even better. Shall I start a build sheet here from one of the other manufacturers out there?
And, where's the fun in not building your own AR like YOU would want it?
Sorry OP, but I just thought I would open your eyes up to the potential of the AR build out there. I went to the S&W website, closed my eyes, and pointed to the M&P VTAC II. That's the one for you. I'm sure the F.B's will agree.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by Disabled1

Ok, if not PSA, there are MANY others that make the same quality as S&W, even better. Shall I start a build sheet here from one of the other manufacturers out there?
And, where's the fun in not building your own AR like YOU would want it?
Sorry OP, but I just thought I would open your eyes up to the potential of the AR build out there. I went to the S&W website, closed my eyes, and pointed to the M&P VTAC II. That's the one for you. I'm sure the F.B's will agree.

I know there are manufacturers that make the same quality... but the key phrase was "better quality" for the same money. I'll stand by my assertion that it would be difficult to build a BETTER gun than the Sport for the $500 or less that the Sport is available for. Not saying it can't be done, but it wouldn't be easy. You would have to shop for deals through multiple dealers. You couldn't just place an order for all the parts on one day through one or two shops... That takes time, and my time is worth something.

I can tell you that building an AR the way I want is way more expensive than a Sport. A good free float, M-LOK rail is going to cost over $100!

As for the VTAC II, it's a nice rifle, but unless you find a heckuva deal, it's overpriced. You can buy or build same quality for way less money... dare I even say "Better"!

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Agonizing over a few dollars difference in price comparing PSA to S&W is entertaining fodder for discussion. However, consider a couple cases of cheap brass case ammo will cost $600 and if you practice much will evaporate in a couple months... uh... the initial price of the rifle can quickly become insignificant.

Buy the rifle you REALLY want. Ammo is too expensive to shoot through a rifle that isn't what you wanted to begin with but chose it to save a buck... not to mention the price of a quality optic, trigger, sling, magazines... on and on.

[WVSig]

Originally Posted by Tanglefoot

Could someone explain to me the difference in the M&P 15, I've seen a lot of varieties and I'm not quite sure what the difference is. I'm looking to purchase one within the next month or so and would like to get the most bang for my buck.
Yes seeing as I'm more of a pistol man in this will be my first AR of any sort I would like to get opinions on which AR-15 would be best to personalize and also I would like to know which one is worth the money.

It is so sad because what has totally gotten lost in this discussion as usual is the OP. The question has no answer because no one answering knows what the OP intends to do with the AR15 he or she is looking to buy. There has been no follow up and no clarification so in the end what is the point of answering the original question. I would ask the OP to join the conversation they started because more information is needed. The very basic starting point for me to even attempt to answer the OP's question would be the following.

1. What is the intended use for the AR15? Is it a range toy? Home defense gun? Gun games like 3 gun? Car/trunk gun? Just another gun that will sit in the safe?

2. What distance do you anticipate shooting this rifle at? 50 yards, 100 yards 250 yards and what type of groups are you expecting desiring to shoot?

3. Is this going to be your one and only AR15 or do you anticipate it being the first of many?

4. Since you are a pistol guy more than a rifle guy how many rounds do you anticipate shooting out of this rifle a year?

5. Do you want a gun with a A2 gas block front sight like this:



or do you want a folding front sight like this?



6. Do you plan on shooting heavy bullets like 75gr or 77gr Sierra matchking, Hornady superperformance match etc...?

7. What type of optics if any are you looking to put on this rifle? Red Dot, Reflex, Variable power etc...

8. Finally what do you want your rifle to look like. Do you want it to look like this::



or this:



Because lets face it the look of the rifle is a huge feature that way too many people overlook when the make their first AR15 purchase.

If you can narrow down and define how you are going to use your rifle than you can start to narrow down which one will work best because in the end "use should dictate gear".

In the end without this information all the answers given are worthless because they simply amount to talking about a particulars members personal subjective preferences. They are simply telling you what they bought which may or may not have any bearing on what is best for you. For example I am not a tiny group and 250 yards kind of guy. I am a minute of man kind of guy at 50 to 100 yards. Sometimes a little longer so all of my rifles and my gear are setup to let me hit man sized targets at reasonable speed with reasonable accuracy. My use dictates my gear. My gear won't suit a guy looking to shoot tiny groups at 300 yards. They are better served with different gear it does not make my gear bad or their gear better it just means there are different tools for different jobs.

I recommend the OP or anyone else looking to buy their first AR15 to find a friend who has a few or go to the local range a rent a few. The immediate feedback you will get from holding and shooting an AR15 will be much more valuable than a bunch of subjective posts on an Internet forum.

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

Buy the rifle you REALLY want.

Well that's the rub isn't it? How does a new shooter know what they want until they get something and shoot it?

I bought my first AR because it was cheap (for the time) and I just wanted to get-in-the-game, as it were. No one would pay what I paid for that rifle now. Even so, that rifle looks nothing like it did. I'm pretty sure I've replaced everything. One piece here, another there, a new (used) upper, etc. and all because I didn't know what I wanted/needed until I tried it.

I've used iron sights, red dots, variable magnification optics, fixed magnification optics, offset sights, drop in forearms, free float forearms, GI triggers, modified GI triggers, cartridge type triggers, fixed butt stocks, collapsing butt stocks, plastic grips, rubber grips, 16"-20" barrels, 1:7, 1:8 and 1:9 twist rates, muzzle brakes, no muzzle brakes, Carbine, mid and rifle gas systems,...the list is endless. I choose not to tally the cost of all that. Of course I've sold off parts too.

The don't call these "Barbie dolls for men" for no reason. Just when you think you've got the perfect configuration, there's some new gadget or methodology or whatever.

The only advice that is consistently good is to just buy the gun you can afford and that makes you smile. Then go shoot it. You'll change stuff, everyone does. The closer you get to what you want in the first place, the less you'll change, but how will you know until you try?

As I said earlier, think hard on what you think you'll use the gun for. We can help with the model that will best fit that need. Then just go shoot. You'll change something, I guarantee it.

[Disabled1]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

I know there are manufacturers that make the same quality... but the key phrase was "better quality" for the same money. I'll stand by my assertion that it would be difficult to build a BETTER gun than the Sport for the $500 or less that the Sport is available for. Not saying it can't be done, but it wouldn't be easy. You would have to shop for deals through multiple dealers. You couldn't just place an order for all the parts on one day through one or two shops... That takes time, and my time is worth something.

I can tell you that building an AR the way I want is way more expensive than a Sport. A good free float, M-LOK rail is going to cost over $100!

As for the VTAC II, it's a nice rifle, but unless you find a heckuva deal, it's overpriced. You can buy or build same quality for way less money... dare I even say "Better"!

You said $500, so, there you go.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

Q: Well that's the rub isn't it? How does a new shooter know what they want until they get something and shoot it?

A: As I said earlier, think hard on what you think you'll use the gun for. We can help with the model that will best fit that need. Then just go shoot. You'll change something, I guarantee it.

That's about it.

[WVSig]

Originally Posted by Disabled1

You said $500, so, there you go.

PSA 16" Midlength MOE Freedom Rifle - 516445960

$449 shipped LOL

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by WVSig

PSA 16" Midlength MOE Freedom Rifle - 516445960

$449 shipped LOL

Complete is cheaper than upper and lower... I just don't get it...

[WVSig]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Complete is cheaper than upper and lower... I just don't get it...

Either do I. I am also not saying it's better rifle than the Sport II but in most shooters hands I doubt they would see a difference in performance. Still looking at the spec on paper the PSA is a decent rifle. It has a lot of things that the Sport II lacks. Full Auto 158 test bolt, 4150V barrel with 1:8 twist, midlength gas, Moe furniture, 7075-T6 buffer tube etc...

Barrel: 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:8 twist rate, M4 barrel extension, and a midlength gas system. Barrel is finished off with a MOE handguard, F-Marked gas front sight base, and A2 flash hider.

Upper: Forged 7075-T6 A3 AR upper is machined to MIL-SPECS and hard coat anodized. These uppers are made for us right here in the USA by a mil-spec manufacturer.

Bolt: Full-auto profile bolt carrier group. Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel bolt, shot peened, high pressure tested, mag particle inspected, gas key hardened to USGI specifications, fastened with grade 8 screws, and staked per mil-spec. 8620 steel M-16 profile carrier is chrome lined and phosphate coated.

Lower: These forged lowers are quality made using material is 7075-T6 and are marked "MULTI" for caliber. Finish is hardcoat annodized.. Mil-spec diameter 7075-T6 buffer tube is hardcoat anodized, has 6 adjustment positions, is fitted with a Magpul MOE Carbine Stock and MOE Grip. The fire control group is a PSA polished assembly.

[WR Moore]

I'm going to add to the list of guys who wonder what you want it for? That has major effect on the "bang for the buck" issue, as well as what you may NEED vs what you (think you) want.

I was fortunate enough to have employers who provided me with a varied selection of AR pattern firearms over decades to figure out what works (for me) under the conditions I used them. That said, just a couple of thoughts here, if you might use this for defensive purposes at some time consider the following:
1. A2 front sight tower is necessary-a front sight and a cheek/chin weld will work for CQB distances. Batteries fail, LEDs die, glass gets damaged and you may not have time to flip up folders-if you've got them. Also usually takes care of point 2 below. I believe in a fixed rear sight with A1 type adjustment dial too. Nothing to flip up, no chance of contact with gear or surroundings changing adjustments.

2. You want pins, not set screws, retaining the front sight tower/gas block. I've seen gas blocks with set screws loosen and blow forward in competition. That's embarrassing in competition, could be deadly under serious circumstances. The gas usually removes the hand guards with great vigor.

3. Per a retired CO of the USAMTU, if you want the best possible accuracy (probably not needed for most of us), melonite bore coating is the way to go. For all other uses, hard chrome is the way to go. It's about $40, that's much less than a barrel. Yes, you can burn out a barrel quickly without full auto. BTW, the USAMTU uses set screws in the front sight tower (the grooves for the pins may disturb the vibration patterns in the barrel-we're getting really nit picking here), but they tack weld them after they're in. Your tax dollars at work.

4. Triggers-unless you're building a range toy, leave the stock trigger alone. If you just gotta do something, ALG makes two different prepped hammer/trigger sets that will give you crisp, but on the low side of the factory trigger specs for pull weight.

Someone mentioned PSA. I talked with them several times and have doubts..... I'll leave it at that. Based on my experience with S&W M&P15s in abusive use, I'd stick with them. And their warranty.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by WVSig

Either do I. I am also not saying it's better rifle than the Sport II but in most shooters hands I doubt they would see a difference in performance. Still looking at the spec on paper the PSA is a decent rifle. It has a lot of things that the Sport II lacks...

It does look good on paper.

[hdrolling]

Originally Posted by WR Moore

BTW, the USAMTU uses set screws in the front sight tower (the grooves for the pins may disturb the vibration patterns in the barrel-we're getting really nit picking here), but they tack weld them after they're in. Your tax dollars at work.

Um, unless this is new they didn't do this when I was there. I received my Designated marksman instructor cert in 2006, who was the CO and when was he there?

[Disabled1]

Originally Posted by WVSig

Either do I. I am also not saying it's better rifle than the Sport II but in most shooters hands I doubt they would see a difference in performance. Still looking at the spec on paper the PSA is a decent rifle. It has a lot of things that the Sport II lacks. Full Auto 158 test bolt, 4150V barrel with 1:8 twist, midlength gas, Moe furniture, 7075-T6 buffer tube etc...

Barrel: 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:8 twist rate, M4 barrel extension, and a midlength gas system. Barrel is finished off with a MOE handguard, F-Marked gas front sight base, and A2 flash hider.

Upper: Forged 7075-T6 A3 AR upper is machined to MIL-SPECS and hard coat anodized. These uppers are made for us right here in the USA by a mil-spec manufacturer.

Bolt: Full-auto profile bolt carrier group. Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel bolt, shot peened, high pressure tested, mag particle inspected, gas key hardened to USGI specifications, fastened with grade 8 screws, and staked per mil-spec. 8620 steel M-16 profile carrier is chrome lined and phosphate coated.

Lower: These forged lowers are quality made using material is 7075-T6 and are marked "MULTI" for caliber. Finish is hardcoat annodized.. Mil-spec diameter 7075-T6 buffer tube is hardcoat anodized, has 6 adjustment positions, is fitted with a Magpul MOE Carbine Stock and MOE Grip. The fire control group is a PSA polished assembly.

WVSig, it does no good. You will get shot down EVERY time.
OP, did you pick a rifle yet?

[Rastoff]

This is the M&P15 forum. The OP asked which M&P15 to buy. Why are we even discussing other brands?

[Disabled1]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

This is the M&P15 forum. The OP asked which M&P15 to buy. Why are we even discussing other brands?

You're correct. I should have asked the OP if he had picked an MP yet. Or, taken my suggestion on an MP. Of course I picked it in a professional manner.
I wonder if we can get another 50 replies?