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Old 05-07-2016, 04:07 AM
C J C J is offline
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One of the main reasons I wanted to get an AR was the availability of new types of ammo (which aren't made for my SKS - I love that rifle for it's accuracy and it's reliability which is astounding). Rounds that fragment and other types of rounds have been promoted by many as a safer alternative for indoor HD due to their lack of penetration through walls.

Now it seems I read more and more that people are going with old fashioned, high penetration rounds. 68 or 75 gr. Black Hills ammo is often mentioned as a top defensive round. Oddly enough I have a good stockpile of that kind of ammo because my .223 varmint rifle (Savage 12 LRPV) loves it. But I also bought enough Hornady TAP Urban 60 gr. to fill a couple of mags for my HD needs.

I suppose I'm about to stir a hornet's nest of opinions here but here goes anyway. Which way should I go? To be honest I feel like I could have saved the money I spent on my Sport and just went on using my SKS for SD if the answer is high penetration ammo. One thing 7.62 x 39 is good for is high penetration but no expansion at all. I love my AR but then I love dang near every gun I get near so that doesn't mean a lot.

Aside from the obvious stuff (more configurations, better sights, etc.) what would you say is the main advantage of the AR over something like the SKS. If you intend to knock the SKS as not having detachable mags be aware I changed mine over to detachables the first day I bought it 24 years ago and it has failed to feed maybe 2 dozen times and that was always due to bad ammo or alterations I did to the rifle to test things. It has been unbelievably reliable through many thousands of rounds. And I still have many more thousands of rounds sitting in crates. I bought when it was cheap and I'm still stocked.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:42 AM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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Use your stash of 68 or 75gr OTM from Black Hills. The military currently is quite fond of OTM bullets.

Any .223 bullet will penetrate drywall, but they fragment quicker than your average JHP pistol bullet. If you want penetration, choose any of the rounds touted for deer hunting. There is plenty of ammunition on the market loaded with Nosler Partition or bonded bullets, Barnes bullets, and even some of the older cup and core like the Winchester 64gr Power Point.

It's natural to worry about over penetration. Some people choose high speed, lightweight varmint bullets hoping to prevent this. You still will penetrate wallboard but lose the penetration needed for stopping an invader hiding behind soft cover. I choose to keep a magazine of my handloads of Nosler Partitions on hand because I live in the country and my nearest neighbor is 75 yards away.

Last edited by MichiganScott; 05-07-2016 at 11:45 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-07-2016, 09:04 AM
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I learned a long time ago during my career in law enforcement that there is no such thing as the magic bullet. The flavor of the month is a movable target that seems to shift regularly.

For example, in handgun loads alone they went from sub-sonic to high powered, from 115 gr to 147 gr and up in just 9mm. Black Talon, Gold Dot, Silver Tips etc etc etc

I don't consider the AR to be my go-to firearm inside the home though I'll use what's at hand in a pinch. Since I don't believe in the perfect round, I've purchased a few different ones...

Hornady TAP Urban 55 gr .223 which is less likely to penetrate aggressively and is designed to be used where (surrounding) collateral risk is high.

I've also recently purchased the Speer Gold Dot .223 in both 55 gr and 64 gr weights for a bit more aggressive capability.

I keep a magazine loaded with each in my rifle case and will pull out the one I feel most appropriate if I have time to choose in a given set of circumstances.

A lot of people on the web seem to put faith in an "approved list" compiled by "Doc Roberts" which addresses his testing of various rounds for self and home defense.

My own feeling is that most any quality round will work if you put the bullet where you intend and are mindful of the actions to take if the threat is wearing body armor or behind a barrier. Also, and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, be aware of the unique characteristics of your home and property and take advantage of that knowledge when choosing how and where to counter a threat.
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:32 PM
C J C J is offline
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The flavor of the month is a movable target that seems to shift regularly.
Don't I know it. That's why I'm here. I figure the people here are less prone to go chasing the latest and greatest and are more inclined to use what they know works.

It still boils down to this. I've heard for years from countless sources including some that should know, that a fragmenting type .223 round is "better" (not the perfect round) for HD because it loses power after penetrating barriers. Now that I bought a .223 battle carbine I hear people saying to go with deeper penetration.

I guess the question is will the fragmenting Hornady round be effective enough. I don't anticipate shooting through any walls and if I do choose to do that I do have my handguns laying around. They penetrate quite well. Then there's my SKS. It will penetrate concrete I belive (not seriously but it does penetrate deep in almost anything). I feel like the SKS round won't even slow down if it goes through a wall. My neighbors aren't close here but I've seen that SKS fire through a 20" tree trunk like it was mashed potatoes. I don't think the bullet even slowed down through that.

I'd like to be safe with a fragmenting round but if they won't penetrate enough I'll be using the Black Hills stuff. I actually have a bunch of rounds stockpiled of different types but the Black Hills ammo gets mentioned a lot by people. I know it's an excellent round. I bought a case of it now too long ago and I had another case before I got that one.
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Old 05-07-2016, 01:04 PM
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Unless they provide us with some test subjects in Gitmo I think we're going to have to rely on gel tests, anecdotal data and after-action reports from departments that have had to fire the given rounds in anger.

Personally, I'd have confidence with any of the rounds I mentioned. Even if the 55 gr TAP round "only" caused a deep (non-lethal) wound channel, I don't think it would prove deficient. Remember, from a legal and LE perspective, the goal is to stop the aggressor from continuing the attack that caused you to shoot in the first place. (Anything additional is good or bad depending upon your personal point of view and perspective.)

Given the choice, if my wife (and pooch) are in the same room or behind me, I'd probably opt for the 64 gr Gold Dot first.
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Old 05-07-2016, 01:29 PM
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223 penetrates less than a handgun caliber unless you're specifically using green tips. Use a SD bullet not a fmj.

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