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Old 05-25-2016, 03:11 PM
C J C J is offline
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Default What am I looking at inside the handguard?



The silver rod inside the handguard - what is it? And will I affect the operation of the rifle if I put a rail on top of the handguard here. It appears the nuts on the back side will touch the rod. I want to mount a small laser and my Vortex Strikefire II doesn't leave enough room unless I remove the iron sight and I don't want to do that. I also will be putting a rail on the bottom of the handguard to attach a vertical grip. I ordered one rail and the tool to pull down the ring but I haven't ordered a grip yet. Should I forget trying to mount a rail on top of the handguard?
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:15 PM
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Gas tube. Part of the recoil system.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:20 PM
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It will not impact the operation if covered. Properly oriented and installed aftermarket handguards will work just fine . . .
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Properly oriented and installed aftermarket handguards will work just fine . . .
Even if the nuts on the inside of the handguard rub against the rod? I'm guessing I would have to restrict gas movement to cause any real problems but I'm pretty new to AR's obviously.
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:47 PM
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Even if the nuts on the inside of the handguard rub against the rod? I'm guessing I would have to restrict gas movement to cause any real problems but I'm pretty new to AR's obviously.
You just don't want to break it, kink it, or cause it to disconnect . . .
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:59 PM
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You just don't want to break it, kink it, or cause it to disconnect . . .
If only Phil would let me get away with posting my original response...
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Old 05-26-2016, 08:00 AM
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If only Phil would let me get away with posting my original response...
Go ahead! Sometimes one infraction is worth it!
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Old 05-26-2016, 08:23 AM
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Go ahead! Sometimes one infraction is worth it!
Nice to know that the enabling isn't limited to just buying stuff around here!
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Old 05-26-2016, 08:25 AM
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Since you're buying accessories, why not just get a new handguard with rails already on it?
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Old 05-26-2016, 09:06 AM
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Since you're buying accessories, why not just get a new handguard with rails already on it?
This. The stock handguard is not really meant to hang a lot of stuff off of it. If you want to do that, your best bet is getting a drop in quad rail, then you'll have plenty of space to hang gadgets off of.
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Old 05-26-2016, 09:45 AM
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Mounting things that are used to deliver aimed fire to a stock handguard is going to be a frustrating experience. Your laser and Strikefire will be all but useless beyond looking cool.
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Old 05-26-2016, 09:47 AM
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You don't want anything rubbing against the gas tube really, a) it gets bloody hot and b) if you wear a hole in it the gun won't cycle any more. Avoid.
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Old 05-26-2016, 10:49 AM
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You don't want anything rubbing against the gas tube really, a) it gets bloody hot and b) if you wear a hole in it the gun won't cycle any more. Avoid.
That's the response I was looking for arnoob. I'll work out something else. BTW I don't intend to be hanging a bunch of stuff off my rifle. A quad rail is overkill in a big way IMO. I wanted to go the way that required the least amount of modification. I'll use the rail I ordered to mount a vertical grip which I already had planned to do. It will go on the bottom of the handguard of course away from the gas tube.

BTW as close as the gas tube is to my handguard I don't see how even a MOE would work because whatever is mounted to that is going to come in contact with the gas tube also. It is very close to the top of the handguard. Maybe it isn't supposed to be like that but it is.
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:00 PM
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I changed my hand guards to MAGPUL guards (29.95) and mounted MAGPUL MOE rail (8.95) on the left side for my ITAC light and laser combo. Works just fine and if doesn't interfere with my Vortex Surefire II which is mounted on top of the upper receiver. I'm right handed and operate the buttons on the rear of the ITAC light and laser with my left thumb.

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Old 05-26-2016, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OldChief View Post
I changed my hand guards to MAGPUL guards (29.95) and mounted MAGPUL MOE rail (8.95) on the left side for my ITAC light and laser combo. Works just fine and if doesn't interfere with my Vortex Surefire II which is mounted on top of the upper receiver. I'm right handed and operate the buttons on the rear of the ITAC light and laser with my left thumb.
+1

IMO, just get an M-Lok Magpul (MOE or SL). They're cheap, solid, run cool and you can move/remove anything around you attach without having to remove the handguard. It won't rub the gas tube unless something is very abnormal about your AR.
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:21 PM
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I may go with a MOE setup sometime if I don't like what I get with the way I'm going. I really just don't want to do a lot of mods if not needed. If the rail I bought doesn't work I only invested less than $10 in it. And according to the ad where I bought it it will work with an MOE setup.
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Old 05-26-2016, 03:08 PM
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That's the response I was looking for arnoob. I'll work out something else. BTW I don't intend to be hanging a bunch of stuff off my rifle. A quad rail is overkill in a big way IMO. I wanted to go the way that required the least amount of modification. I'll use the rail I ordered to mount a vertical grip which I already had planned to do. It will go on the bottom of the handguard of course away from the gas tube.
Not really overkill. You already are putting on a VG and you want to add a laser on top. Might you ever want to attach a bipod for bench shooting? Might you ever want to add a flashlight? It's not really overkill, it gives you "lots of options" as I like to put it.

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BTW as close as the gas tube is to my handguard I don't see how even a MOE would work because whatever is mounted to that is going to come in contact with the gas tube also. It is very close to the top of the handguard. Maybe it isn't supposed to be like that but it is.
MOE what? Handguard, rail section? If you are talking MOE handguard, it is taller than a stock handguard thus allowing top mounting.
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Old 05-26-2016, 05:17 PM
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If you're going to put a laser on the top rail.... do you have a flip front sight or an offset laser?

I'v got a laser on the top rail of my 15-22.


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Old 05-26-2016, 10:55 PM
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No flashlight. No bipod. Just a small laser mounted on a 45 degree offset mount from either the top or bottom. A quadrail would definitely be overkill for me. I have the handguard that should do everything I want already installed. Again I'm not going to be hanging the kitchen sink off my rifle. Small laser on an offset mount. Vertical hand grip. The sight already mounted on the stock rail. That's it. I have no desire for anything else and if I do I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. But not likely at all. Excess weight can slow down the way you move your weapon. This isn't my first rodeo guys. I've been shooting for well over 50 years.

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Old 05-26-2016, 11:22 PM
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You asked "what is this rod". DUH. Well your a 50 year shooting expert?
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Old 05-27-2016, 01:08 AM
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I'm new to AR's. Duh yourself. Didn't you read that part of my comments? This is the first rifle I ever owned that has a gas tube. There are things I could say here but I respect what you have done even if I don't respect the attitude. Trust me when I tell you there are things I can do with a rifle that very few people can do. Bet on that. Here's a hint. This is a 4 shot group at 50 yards with an off the shelf .22. I did pillar bed it but that's it. I ran out of ammo or I would have shot 5 times. Yes this is my best group. It can't get better than this. It's not the only group I've shot similar to this however. I'll send you a bunch like this if you ask but not in an open forum.



If this doesn't impress you ask me about my 1 inch, 500 yard groups with a .223.

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Old 05-27-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by arnoob View Post
You don't want anything rubbing against the gas tube really, a) it gets bloody hot and b) if you wear a hole in it the gun won't cycle any more. Avoid.
You do realize that the barrel nut continuously, and carrier key every time the weapon is fired, rubs against the gas tube, right? There is not really a way to rub a hole in the gas tube by mounting a rail to the stock handguard. Your right about the tube getting HOT. Hot enough to damage anything susceptible to heat that contacts it.

The gas tube is actually incredibility tough. When the military did sustained automatic fire destructive testing on the M4 they found the gas tube warped/drooped/contorted, but the barrel failed before the gas tube.


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Old 05-27-2016, 10:10 AM
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So I can't really let the nuts that go on the inside of the handgrip contact the gas tube without melting the nuts, right? Maybe once I take the handguard off I'll see what's going on better. I'm getting ready to do that in a few minutes.
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Old 05-27-2016, 10:35 AM
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So I can't really let the nuts that go on the inside of the handgrip contact the gas tube without melting the nuts, right? Maybe once I take the handguard off I'll see what's going on better. I'm getting ready to do that in a few minutes.
I don't think you have any worry when it comes to melting metal screws/nuts.....Unless you have the ability to move your selector to "giggle" and fire in full auto mode until the barrel droops.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:17 AM
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No flashlight. No bipod. Just a small laser mounted on a 45 degree offset mount from either the top or bottom. A quadrail would definitely be overkill for me. I have the handguard that should do everything I want already installed. Again I'm not going to be hanging the kitchen sink off my rifle. Small laser on an offset mount. Vertical hand grip. The sight already mounted on the stock rail. That's it. I have no desire for anything else and if I do I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. But not likely at all. Excess weight can slow down the way you move your weapon. This isn't my first rodeo guys. I've been shooting for well over 50 years.
Understood, no disrespect. As others said, I thought you were new at this.


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So I can't really let the nuts that go on the inside of the handgrip contact the gas tube without melting the nuts, right? Maybe once I take the handguard off I'll see what's going on better. I'm getting ready to do that in a few minutes.
I wouldn't let them touch, but that's me. The nuts won't melt if they are metal, they will just get hot and may mark/melt the plastic handguard. Still, I doubt they would even do that unless you do multiple mag dumps consecutively. Still for me, I don't like anything touching anything it's not supposed to.
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Old 05-30-2016, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Understood, no disrespect. As others said, I thought you were new at this.
Not a problem. I just know what I want. I know the primary use for my AR and I have an idea what I need for that purpose. I just mounted the rail on the bottom and mounted the laser to that. And there's still plenty of room to mount a vertical grip so it all worked out. I do have rifles with bi-pods BTW. I have guns with flashlights. I have a shotgun for that purpose. But IMO a rifle is a more long range weapon so a flashlight would really be limited for such things as shooting the numerous coyotes in the area. The shotgun has a light for intruders who may have cut the power. I can hit the power switch and blind the intruder before blasting them if need be. I do think these things out. I don't mind suggestions though. For a lot of people a quad rail is a good idea for what they want. It just isn't what I want. And for whatever reason my gas tube is right up against the hand guard. It doesn't touch the hand guard without adding a nut but the nuts on the rail I bought were plastic. I suppose I might have bought a different one with metal nuts but it worked out mounting it on the bottom and that leaves me with one less rail to mount and a little bit less weight to swing around. Weight on the front of the gun can cause a slow reaction time more than weight at the back of the rifle. That's a big part of why I want to avoid adding too much in the way of rails and lights etc.. I really like lasers. The one I have can put me right on a blade of grass and slice it in two. I've shot nuisance flying critters in the air using a laser. It was actually pretty easy. I figure a moving pack of coyotes might make good targets for a laser that I can move quickly from one target to another. And no I won't be doing that stuff in the dark. I have a green laser that works well in low light. It works in broad daylight but not well.

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Old 05-30-2016, 01:00 AM
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If this doesn't impress you ask me about my 1 inch, 500 yard groups with a .223.
A .2MOA group with a .223 rifle? Wow, that's some great shooting. Yes, I'd like to see you do that.
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Old 05-30-2016, 05:35 AM
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This is the rifle I used - a Savage 12 LRPV:



You also see the ammo I use and the sandbags I shot from for a while. Yes I had to set the front bag on something. I used boards I kept with me. Notice the red trigger on the rifle. It's significant because it indicates that it's a Target AccuTrigger. They adjust down to 6 oz.. This photo doesn't show the scope I use now. I have a Weaver T-36 instead of the old thing in the photo.

Keep in mind that did not say I could shoot 1" groups all the time. I was pretty clear that 1" was the best target I shot. The thing about shooting targets at 500 yards where I shoot is that it's a 20 minute hike to the target area and I'm not young any more. And there's a dip between where you shoot and where the targets are placed. If someone doesn't see you there you could be under fire for quite a while. So mostly I count on things like this makeshift target. It's a sandstone rock with 5"-6" spots painted on it. I shot at one of them. Hitting that spot once is not that hard. Hitting it twice isn't that hard. But the thing is a chunk of the target comes off when I hit it. Just maybe about an inch or so in size. What I did was to shoot the entire amount of paint out from that target. Again the first shots were easy. Getting that last piece of paint wasn't. Not even close. I shot about 10 rounds to completely knock the blue out of that section. It was near the edge so it took an extra bit off between where the paint ended and the edge. There wasn't enough strength left in the rock to hold it. Again I do not average 1" groups at 500 yards. But I think this shows the ability of that rifle to put bullets in a tiny group at 500 yards. Again the last bits of blue were probably no bigger than half an inch but I managed to hit them.

This isn't the 1" group I shot BTW. That was done by shooting pieces of a clay pigeon. Someone else busted it. I shot all of the pieces which were no more than 1" each. But this is the target I have a photo of. Again closing the range to go check your target on this particular range is asking a lot of the other people who showed up to shoot on the same day. It just takes up too much time at this location. Anyway here's the rock target I shot.



Sorry I don't have a paper target to show you. They just aren't practical at this particular range. I do have witnesses that have seen me do these things. I'd go back to the range and shoot some more but they closed it because idiots were shooting over the back stop. Plus I live about 150 miles away now.

I will tell you that I started to join a club where I live now. It's near a fairly big city (Cincinnati). They have 600 yard competitions at that range but it takes almost 2 years just to get where they allow you to shoot there. Again they have to make sure you aren't someone that doesn't know what a backstop is for. But in my conversations with the rifle range master when I started to join but had kidney failure instead that nearly everyone who shoots in that event uses the same rifle I use. They are accurate. And I can shoot them. I think my other target I posted here proved that I can shoot.

I suggest you read this web page which has comments about the 12 LRPV. Here's a quote from one, "I have 2 LRPVs in 223 that I shoot in competition at 400 yards. With good conditions and good bullets the better ones can stay close to 2 inch off the bags." So I'm not the only one getting that kind of results from the LRPV. They are very accurate. At 500 yards wind plays a bigger role than at 400 yards. And at 300 yards I can shoot about a 1" group almost every time. Not all of them are great shooters. But if you look around I think you'll find a whole bunch of people saying great things about them.
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Old 05-30-2016, 12:44 PM
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OK, I see, not actually 1" group, but small pieces of clays. Still very impressive shooting regardless of the rifle. Especially with .223Rem cartridges.
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Old 05-30-2016, 01:24 PM
C J C J is offline
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I'm telling you that I put 5 shots into an inch one day. The minute I switched to another box of ammo that kind of accuracy went away. Even in .223 ammo the lot number makes a difference. Yes I could invest in a lot of equipment and spend years learning to roll my own but I do pretty well with what I have. And a one off group like that is not out of the ordinary for that rifle. I know what I did. I know what I can do. I said "ask me about" me 1" group. That's the story. If you have somewhere I can put up paper targets 500 yards from where I shoot then "drive" to the target after I shoot them I'll be glad to show you how well that rifle works. It's amazingly accurate. It practically shoots itself. It's actually hard to do bad with it. It's so heavy a flinch usually doesn't move it a lot and the trigger is so light there's no time to jerk it or push it.

People always want to criticize others and what they say. I really don't get that. I don't lie. I don't exaggerate. I'm sure I'm not the only one that doesn't. And I have more faith in my fellow man than some. Besides that I've see what the rifle can do. BTW you might want to ask about my 100 yard targets with that rifle. Those I do have. I shot these 3 groups recently after not getting to shoot my rifle for over a year. Health issues will do that to you. I don't have a lot of 100 yard targets because almost all the time I shot it was at 500 yards. That was before I moved and spent several weeks in the hospital one year. That's also why I didn't join the local gun club after being on a 3 year wait list to get in. Yes I tried to join when I lived back home because they have the only 600 yard range in a large area.


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  #31  
Old 05-30-2016, 02:19 PM
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Rastoff Rastoff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C J View Post
BTW you might want to ask about my 100 yard targets with that rifle.
No, I don't.

I said this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
A .2MOA group with a .223 rifle? Wow, that's some great shooting.
...and...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Still very impressive shooting regardless of the rifle. Especially with .223Rem cartridges.
...and you responded with...
Quote:
Originally Posted by C J View Post
People always want to criticize others and what they say.
If you're going to respond to a compliment by calling it a criticism, well, what's the point in continuing? Clearly you have a chip on your shoulder.
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Old 05-30-2016, 02:37 PM
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If I misread your post I apologize. I guess I've seen too many people be critical on forums. Again I apologize if I read you wrong. Sometimes it's hard talking and really communicating on a forum. My bad.
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Old 05-30-2016, 03:56 PM
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ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
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What does the accuracy of a Savage bolt action rifle have to do with the OP asking about the gas tube on a Sport, or in any way related to the M&P 15 section?

Let's move along.... and knock off the bickering.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 05-30-2016 at 03:57 PM.
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