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  #1  
Old 08-07-2016, 01:04 AM
Reddd Reddd is offline
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Default Removing the Bullet Button on a CA M&P 15 Sport 2

Anyone have any suggestion on the best way to remove the bullet button on a M&P Sport 2? I understand the red Loctite is used. With the new CA laws it may be best to install an ARMaglock or something similar.
Thanks
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Old 08-07-2016, 01:47 AM
DavidWJ DavidWJ is offline
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You could get a Neodymium magnet of the same size as the button to avoid damaging your rifle.

Last edited by DavidWJ; 08-07-2016 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 08-07-2016, 01:17 PM
Reddd Reddd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers View Post
Red Loctite is not nearly as strong as you think....use a heat gun to heat up the area/parts, then just unscrew the screw down inside the "button" part.
On the scale of such small screws 250 psi results in mere fractions of a "psi" for the macro world.

As of 2017 you will need a completely different system...one that requires your upper reveiver to "shotgun" so the magazine release button can be depressed...it's NOT a "bullet button" solution!
Thanks. I will give the heat gun a try. The two systems I have been looking at are the AR Mag Release and the Patriot Mag Release and both pull the rear breakwown pin to open the receiver.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:13 PM
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Well, I tried the heat gun with no luck. Then I used Kroil and let it soak overnight and still cannot budge it. Anyone have any other ideas. I have ordered the AR MagRelease but it is on backorder so I cannot do anything destructive.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:20 PM
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Try a large soldering iron with a drop of solder to transfer heat to the insert. You could also use a small butane torch. Use a screw extractor to grab, twist and pull the insert.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:06 PM
poordevil poordevil is offline
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You come on to a firearms site and ask how to circumvent a state law? Even if you can you should not. I lived in Cal for all my life till moving to AZ. 50 years!. Now the Laws are different in Cal. In Cal you must do as they say or till you change atmosphere in the State .

My older Brother still lives there and says it is a big hassle! But for now the law is the law.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poordevil View Post
You come on to a firearms site and ask how to circumvent a state law? Even if you can you should not. I lived in Cal for all my life till moving to AZ. 50 years!. Now the Laws are different in Cal. In Cal you must do as they say or till you change atmosphere in the State .

My older Brother still lives there and says it is a big hassle! But for now the law is the law.
I am not trying to avoid the law. I am trying comply with the requirements of the new law effective 1 January.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poordevil View Post
You come on to a firearms site and ask how to circumvent a state law?
Instead of schooling someone...

The OP is asking about changing the obsolete system for a new CA compliant one.
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:18 PM
arnoob arnoob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddd View Post
I am not trying to avoid the law. I am trying comply with the requirements of the new law effective 1 January.
Aren't the old bullet buttons grandfathered in under the previous laws if purchased before Jan 1?

I couldn't help but laugh to see the bullet button inventor had already released a new mag release to circumvent the new laws before they even come into effect.

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Old 08-16-2016, 07:34 PM
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Unfortunately, under SB880 the bullet button makes the AR an assault weapon if you have any one of three features- flash hider, collapsible stock, or pistol grip. So, as the law is written, if you don't want to go featureless, you either register it as an assault weapon or install something like the AR Mag lock or the Patriot mag release.

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Old 08-16-2016, 09:18 PM
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CALIFORNIA state law! It's conceivable that someone would move to a free state and wish to restore their rifle to a standard configuration.
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Old 08-16-2016, 09:35 PM
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How does California have so many residents? I wouldn't go there even for the weather!
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:02 PM
arnoob arnoob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westie1 View Post
Unfortunately, under SB880 the bullet button makes the AR an assault weapon if you have any one of three features- flash hider, collapsible stock, or pistol grip. So, as the law is written, if you don't want to go featureless, you either register it as an assault weapon or install something like the AR Mag lock or the Patriot mag release.
What does it entail to register your rifle as an "assault weapon"?
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:38 PM
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To register, you fill out a form and file it with DoJ and pay a small fee. Problem there is as long as it is registered, you can not sell it to a private party instate. Nor can you give it to anyone-this includes leaving it to some one in your will. It can be sold out of state. Technically, it is possible once registered to de-register it by modding it to comply with the law.
Right now, I'm figuring on getting the ARmaglock, which has been around since 2014. And I'm planning on going with a fixed stock and muzzle brake to be one step ahead.
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Old 08-17-2016, 04:24 AM
Biggfoot44 Biggfoot44 is offline
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To make a Point -

Nothing being discussed here is * Circumventing* anything. The discussion is about Complying with a Statute exactly as written. The fact that the process is so convoluted and silly is not the fault of the OP or other law abiding citizens, but of the Cali Legislature.
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:29 PM
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Just for information the solution I found was a #10 spanner bit found in a lot of cheap screwdriver bit sets. I filed down the tips just a little to fit and used it with a nut driver and was able to unscrew it. It still took some effort to turn it but it did come out without any damage to anything.
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Old 08-29-2016, 05:45 AM
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I picked up an Original S&W Sport that came from CA. It had the awful mag release and a 10 round mag. I knew this going in but the price was unbelievable. I tried heat on the release and ended up just drilling the release out and replacing it with a "normal" release.
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:13 AM
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California has brcome worse than Nazi Germany.
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:35 PM
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Default Here's what I did to remove the BB

So, I got rid of my bullet button but had a heck of a time removing it. I have a bullet button wrench, it broke under the torque. I made one with a .22 shell...it broke. I grinded a #10 spanner bit to fit. It fit perfectly but broke...I did this after heating up with heat gun and a soldering iron. I finally had it and decided to punch and drill it from the other side. Success. The RED threadlock used was a nightmare. Be careful if you plan on removing your BB this way. You can easily damage the finish if your drill slips.
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Old 10-15-2016, 03:55 AM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
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Quote:
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California has brcome [sic] worse than Nazi Germany.
Seriously?
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Old 10-15-2016, 07:23 AM
kramden kramden is offline
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Such a beautiful state yet I'd never move there. Cal. is an example of what all of America may look like unless we start to control the libs that are trying to take our freedom away.
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Old 10-15-2016, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattO View Post
How does California have so many residents? I wouldn't go there even for the weather!
My question is how are these laws being voted in, and why are these lawmakers being elected?
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poordevil View Post
You come on to a firearms site and ask how to circumvent a state law? Even if you can you should not. I lived in Cal for all my life till moving to AZ. 50 years!. Now the Laws are different in Cal. In Cal you must do as they say or till you change atmosphere in the State .

My older Brother still lives there and says it is a big hassle! But for now the law is the law.
He's NOT attempting to circumvent the law, he is simply trying to comply with the NEW law before it goes into effect. Sheesh, I wish folks would take the time to actually read a post before deciding something underhanded is afoot.

Locktite Red has to be heated to about 150 degrees before it will release and even then it will be a bit "sticky". If I were trying to heat an AR lower I'd remove the butt stock. grip and trigger group and then put it in a warm over for an hour or so. I'd also wear some good leather work gloves because 150-160 degrees will cause a mild burn. If the button is shaped to the oval recess in the lower you'll need to exert a bit of force while rotating the latch bar.

I am totally unfamiliar with these bullet buttons but of they are NOT shaped to the recess for the magazine release there may not be any means of holding the button firmly enough to overcome the "Stickyness" of Locktite that is well heated. If so you only other option will be to drill the end of the magazine release shaft out of the button. To do this I would suggest starting with a center drill, then a small diameter bit to establish a path for a larger diameter bit to follow. IIRC for the final drill you'll want a 3/16 diameter but double check that because it's been a while since I assembled my last AR.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:54 AM
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Default Hair Dryer Method Confirmed.

I had such a pain in the butt removing this thing. I purchased the special tool off ebay to remove the button but it wouldn't budge at all. So frustrating. I have a cheap Conair 1875 (blue one sells around $15) that my GF left at my house. I heated the B button for around 3-4 min and then the button was removable. I am so happy to get rid of this stupid bullet button. BTW, I did this because I just moved from the most gun hating state (CA) to the most gun loving state (TX).
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Old 04-01-2017, 03:15 PM
Brian in Oregon Brian in Oregon is offline
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Mention was made about doing a new "assault weapon" registration in CA. Is this possible? Wasn't there a cutoff date for this?
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:29 PM
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There is a new "assault weapon" law here, but doesn't take full effect until 1 Jan 2018. Under the new law, you can get rid of the BB if you go featureless. Your other option is to rig the AR so you have to take it apart to change mags.

If you keep the "evil features", you have to keep the BB and do the register thing.

You can buy new AR's here, but they either have to be featureless or have a "fixed" mag. Not a fan of the "fixed mag", since it makes clearing jams a royal pain.
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Old 04-02-2017, 01:32 AM
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The younger generation will have to deal with it. It's coming everywhere. They almost have half the country as useful idiots already.
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:29 PM
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A new mag catch is cheap, about $6. I would just press the mag button in as far as it would go with a punch and then cut the mag catch post with a Dremel cut off tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in Oregon View Post
Mention was made about doing a new "assault weapon" registration in CA. Is this possible? Wasn't there a cutoff date for this?
Yes, the first registration period ended 17 years ago. However, because of the new law, they've opened a new registration. Of course they haven't put the rules in place on how to register yet. A CA resident has until 31 Dec 2017 to register an assault weapon, but no one can, even if they want to, because there is no system in place to do it.

I suspect they will continue to drag their feet.
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:39 PM
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I watched the video posted of the installation of a bullet button. Why is a bullet button necessary?
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Old 04-02-2017, 03:29 PM
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The BB was developed to comply with the requirement that a tool had to be used to drop a mag and reload an "evil" AR. It was an attempt to discourage people from owning AR's. The theory the politicians have is that since they can't out right ban black rifles, they can make it so difficult for people to use them that gun owners will eventually give up.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disabled1 View Post
I watched the video posted of the installation of a bullet button. Why is a bullet button necessary?
It has to do with the California definition of an "assault" weapon.

In CA, assault weapons are illegal. CA defines an assault weapon as:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
What the bullet button did was make it a fixed magazine. Because you had to use a tool (i.e. bullet tip) to remove the mag, it became fixed. Therefore, any semi auto that had the bullet button, was no longer an assault rifle and could have any of the features in the list.

This year they changed the definition of a fixed magazine to say that you have to disassemble the receiver to remove it. That mean that the current bullet button didn't make it a fixed mag any more.
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Old 04-02-2017, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
It has to do with the California definition of an "assault" weapon.

In CA, assault weapons are illegal. CA defines an assault weapon as:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
What the bullet button did was make it a fixed magazine. Because you had to use a tool (i.e. bullet tip) to remove the mag, it became fixed. Therefore, any semi auto that had the bullet button, was no longer an assault rifle and could have any of the features in the list.

This year they changed the definition of a fixed magazine to say that you have to disassemble the receiver to remove it. That mean that the current bullet button didn't make it a fixed mag any more.
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  #33  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poordevil View Post
You come on to a firearms site and ask how to circumvent a state law? Even if you can you should not. I lived in Cal for all my life till moving to AZ. 50 years!. Now the Laws are different in Cal. In Cal you must do as they say or till you change atmosphere in the State .

My older Brother still lives there and says it is a big hassle! But for now the law is the law.
if your firearm is featureless you don't need a button in calif.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:45 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
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Quote:
MattO wrote:
How does California have so many residents?
First, a lot of people aren't all that interested in guns, so the gun laws have no effect on their perception of the state.

Second, available good paying jobs, good quality of life, and reasonable cost of living (for everything except housing).
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  #35  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:39 AM
hawaiiboy58 hawaiiboy58 is offline
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I feel stupid for asking but here goes. I just purchased a M&P 15 Sport II in depressing California and am new to this type of rifle. I am currently waiting for my 10 days till I can pick it up. I heard about but did not understand the "Bullet Button" law going on until I joined this site. Could you please tell me what "Featureless" means?? Sorry if that is a dumb question! I would like to be able to get around that law legally.
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  #36  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiboy58 View Post
Could you please tell me what "Featureless" means??
Sure, it's simple, but not what most people think. Here it is in plain English:

Assault rifles are illegal in CA and have been for a long time. This raises the question, "What makes a rifle an 'assault' rifle?" So, they defined it in the law. Here is the current definition:

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
  • A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
  • A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
  • A thumbhole stock.
  • A folding or telescoping stock.
  • A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
  • A flash suppressor.
  • A forward pistol grip.
  • A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
  • A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Section 12276 is a list of guns by name that are illegal in CA. You can't get them so, don't worry about that.

So, what a featureless rifle is, is any rifle that doesn't have the features listed above. Notice the bold, underlined "and" in the first feature. This is to emphasize that it must have a removable magazine AND one of the other features. Take away the other features and you CAN legally have a removable magazine.

So, if you recently bought an AR, it's probably already featureless since you can't buy an assault rifle in CA. This means you have a fixed stock, no flash hider, no vertical fore-grip, the over all length is >30" and no pistol grip. You also only have 10 round mags. You probably have a grip that looks something like this:


But that is only one compliant type of grip. There are many others.
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  #37  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:03 AM
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Rastoff beat me to it. Since you bought yours this year, nothing to worry about. The Sport II's sold in California this year are featureless. Those of us that bought AR's before the end of last year are the ones having to worry about the new laws.
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  #38  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:14 AM
hawaiiboy58 hawaiiboy58 is offline
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Is it legal to change the buttstock to something like the Magpul as long as it is kept fixed? And I guess I can't change that stupid looking grip either? Wow, I'm beginning to wonder if I should of purchased that gun? Too late though, if I stop the sale I lose over $200.00 I just have to be one of the people that do everything possible to get the idiots out of office. This is depressing!! I can't wait until I can leave this state.
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  #39  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:30 AM
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Yes, you can change the stock out to any one of the fixed stocks as long as the existing stock is removable. To get rid of the fin grip that you have, you can can either with a stock like the thorsden or the hera cqr. Or there are replacement grips like the exile machine hammerhead, the monsterman and others

Only other option would be to install something like the Armaglock. Problem with that is, you have to pull the take down pin and break the rifle open to reload. There is at least one "speedloader" that loads the mag through the ejection port

Good place to follow what's going on is Calguns

MMG-AR - MonsterMan Grips California Legal AR15 & AK47 Grip — MonsterMan Grips

FRS-15 Stock Kits - FRS-15 Gen II Rifle Stock | Thordsen Customs

Hera Arms CQR Featureless Stock California Version - Botach

Introducing the most advanced "featureless" AR15 stock system on the m



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Last edited by Westie1; 10-17-2017 at 03:09 AM.
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  #40  
Old 10-17-2017, 06:22 PM
rum_runner rum_runner is offline
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Holy ****!
After digging thru this thread , and trying to understand the requirements....I am glad to say....I am from the Great REDNECK State of Alabama!
No "bullet buttons" here.
No "Mag Cut-offs".
No ...really NOTHING to do with your firearm....other...than...no caliber under .243 for Deer hunting....and no "Bubba" here uses a .243 to hunt.
I'm blessed....
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  #41  
Old 10-17-2017, 08:43 PM
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Out here, unless they've changed the regs. AR's are legal to hunt deer. We've also got Hogs, turkey, elk and pronghorn.

Lived in Tenn, Ark, and Tex, so am familiar with that way of life. Won't get into all the politics involved out here, so enough of that.
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