I looked around here and couldn't fine a specific thread to this issue - which I find absolutely a failure on my part I know you all have discussed this at length. I can't find a thread now, so I'll throw it up here.

What is the communities opinion on steel cased offerings in the likes of

Silver Bear .223 Remington Ammunition 20 Rounds, Steel Case BTHP, 62 Grain - A223RHPN - 4607094860815

or

TulAmmo .223 Remington Ammunition 20 Rounds, Steel Case HP, 62 Grain - TA223621 - 814950011197

the latter of which is also available in 1000 rd box for just over $200.

I am interested in growing my round count without killing myself to do it, along with grabbing some mags.

Have any of you had issues with steel cases, lacquered cases, with ftf, failure to fire, ftl, etc?

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Here, a grain of salt.

They are not surplus. Thats modern commercial ammo.

I use it all the time and have no issues but this question is a can of worms. You will get just about every response from technical to nationalistic

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When I used to shoot more than I do now I went through quite a bit of Wolf steel case with the lacquer sealer. Some here will remember it... the cases typically had lacquer drip marks. Not a single problem and plenty accurate for offhand shooting at steel.

Here, I've saved a couple boxes.

My real worry is what you've just pictured. The sticky stuff they warn you about at gun shows - that comes from cases leaving behind excess sealant after the action heats up a little bit.

Another question: what about the bi-metal projectile? Am I reading this correctly that there are bullets made with steel/xxx bi-metal jackets? I'm really not interested in shooting steel of any kind through my barrel.

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Here, a grain of salt.

There have been some good studies that the bimetal jackets on the cheap steel case ammo accelerates wear, but it's not a dramatic difference.

Just don't shoot brass ammo after steel and you should be fine. Steel case ammo deposits more stuff in the chamber and can cause problems with brass ammo. As always, clean well. The powder used by the Russian stuff is definitely dirtier and stinkier.

In my area there's a vendor with brass reloads that are about the same price as steel so I've been converted.

Taken directly from the description from CTD:

"This TulAmmo load features a Zinc Coated projectile. Zinc coating is a chemical method of surface treatment (galvanizing) which gives the bullet jacket a more uniform and consistent protective layer than that of machine-stamped bimetal bullet jackets. Thanks to this, cartridges with zinc-coated bullets provide up to 10-15% better shooting accuracy than cartridges with bimetal bullets."

"Bimetal jacket will attract a magnet"

Hmmmm... so much for the indoor ranges locally...


I would LOVE to find some local guys reloading for that money. Or even better... I NEED to get my Dillon 550B set up ... like, yesterday.

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Here, a grain of salt.

In addition to what was mentioned above by hk, if you are running your gun hard and leave a lacquered round in the chamber it can fail to extract after firing. For typical range practice this is not an issue. Not even sure of they sell lacquered cases anymore.

Like most things.... a bit of knowledge and common sense goes a long way.

Gun shows sent really a good place for information unless you like speculation and BS.

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I assume you notice I am asking the board members here, right?

Ill take Chattanooga's word. Somehow I'd bet he's got more than speculation on his side.

What I decided to run with for now was brass plated steel cased rounds boxer primed, iced with and 62gr hp copper-jacketed bullets. a little more money, but I don't have to worry about the above mentioned lacquers gumming up the works. And, if I'm lucky, I can get decent enough accuracy out of them to consider coyote and white tail hunting in a few months with the same ammo I'm practicing with. For another buck a box I can get the same setup with sp pills.

I'm still interested in opinions though, as long as they are based on something more than gun-show banter I guess...

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Here, a grain of salt.

I was mad when they chose to discontinue the lacquer sealant. It's excellent for long term storage

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If you don't reload, you can sell your once-fired 5.56 brass to those who do reload, to help off-set the cost of buying brass cased ammo. There seems to be an endless demand.

That's a very good point. I don't reload - yet. Until then, what are a hundred freshly fired empties selling for? Thinking further, perhaps a local reman guy would take trade in brass... hmmm. You've sparked my brain even more, delightful.

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Here, a grain of salt.

Well for starters, on the high side, Brownells sells it,

Brownells: $136.99/1000 But they clean it up, so something less than that obviously, if you just shoot it, and sell it, but it's money just the same!
Once fired 5.56x45mm NATO mixed headstamp reclaimed Military brass. All brass has been washed, tumbled, deprimed, swaged and de-crimped, full length sized, and trimmed to SAAMI Specs. Some minor case mouth dents may occur during shipping so its suggested you neck size the brass before loading. A great economical way to reload. Spend more time shooting and less time scrounging for range brass.

More examples on GunBroker:
556 once fired brass For Sale – Buy 556 once fired brass Online at GunBroker.com

Hey! I'm offering to remove the bullet and de-powder the rounds for free! that's gotta be worth something...

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Here, a grain of salt.

LOL! Such a deal!

That's the first half of reloading.

Been using this Bear ammo and fired over 500 rounds without any issues on my Sport 2...

Currently, sgammo.com is offering some of this type ammo as well. It's selling for.19 cents a round. I would rather just stick with WOLF ammo @ 21-23 cents a round. Check sgammo's website. There is a write up about what you need to do to your AR in able to fire it. I will just stick to WOLF ammo.

That old wolf and the Brown Bear in Warriorking's post looks a lot like the Monarch .223 that I still get from Academy. I have not had problems with any of these three.

The only stuck cases that I recall when using steel cased ammo was with the newer polymer coated ammo, and that was after shooting a mix of brass and steel cased ammo.

OK, so another question. Does the "stick with the same casing" rule apply only until the thing gets cleaned? Will I be fine with a few hundred brass cased rounds, then switch to the steel stuff without endangering feed issues, but not the other way around? Can you switch from brass to steel back to brass if the steel cases are nickle plated rather than lacquered?

I'm anticipating a big day at the range Sat and have mixed ammunition on hand. Thanks for any clarification.

I have probably 600 rds at the moment, about 200 brass cased 400 steel, and may well run over that. AWRIGHT!!! I may be buying some at the range, and wonder if I should just start with the steel and buy more of it from the range, and then stick with it for the day?

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Here, a grain of salt.

That's all I been shooting is steel cased wolf 223, 45acp, 9mm ammo. No problems yet. The only thing I read about is the extractor wear on the steel cases. I tuned the extractor on my 1911 and flared the bottom so it picks up the case rim faster on cycling. The Saiga in 223 shows no wear yet. The cz85db in 9mm also shows no wear yet on the extractor. I think the lacquer cases cushion the case when it goes in the chamber. I have a few cases of the older wolf 223 where the gun powder smells like horse dung when there fired. They all go bang. Eew that smell can't you smell that smell.......

And the extractor can be easily and cheaply replaced if needed.

To me its all about how much are you shooting and what are you shooting for?

If you are just plinking at 100-200 yards and are not concerned about sub-moa then steel cased ammo makes sense but you have to take into account a few factors.

First the ammo is cheap for a reason. The steel case, bi-metal jacket and the ****** powder all combine to make for a less accurate round out of most rifles then say Federal AE XM855. Not that any M855 ball is going to be the standard bearer of accuracy. I generally find steel case ammo to be about 1" to 2" wider at 100 to 200 yards off a bench in my rifles than quality brass cased ammo, match grade stuff. I find it closer to 1" to 1.5" difference with good plinking brass cased ammo, Wolf Gold, AE XM193 and IMI.

Second if you are shooting a lot. I mean a lot like 10,000 a year you will wear out a barrel faster than if you were shooting brass cased ammo. There are 2 theories as to why. First is the bi-metal jacket accelerating wear and the other is that the powder itself causes the additional wear. Either way tests like the Lucky Gunner test seem to show that bi-metal steel case ammo will shoot out a barrel faster. The barrel they used during the test was shot out after 6,000 rounds but they shoot those rounds much faster than most people would ever do it in the real world. So I would add at least a few thousand rounds to the 6,000 figure from the test to account for not shooting all 6,000 in one session.

If you shoot that 10,000 rounds you should have saved enough to pay for a new barrels +. One factory in this equation is do you know how to and have the tools on hand to replace a barrel or will you have to pay someone to do it.

For most people the second issues is not an issue because they are not going to send 10,000 rounds down the barrel in its lifetime. Even at steel cased pricing that is $2,2500 worth of ammo out of a $500 rifle. Yes some will do that easily most IMHO will not.

So it really comes down to function and accuracy. I general these days the steel cased ammo seems to function well. It feeds and exacts well enough and if it is accurate enough for your purposes then go for it. I personally would test it out in my gun with a box or two before buying 1000 rounds.

This was discussed at length in this thread. Undecided On Steel Or Brass Case For New M&P15 Sport II

Thanks WV, I looked for previous threads but never found much... Admittedly I'm bad with the search function.

Bravo, this here is what I wanted to know all along. Good, comprehensive thinking based on experience toward shooting for a rather average joe...

I'm planning on some tactical training on my own (about 3000 rds a year) and possibly a carbine class sometime over the cold months coming up (5k more?) So, your point is taken the savings from the ammo will cover the barrel anyway. Pretty sure the BCM BCG (not worried about the SW set either really) will hold up.

I don't anticipate any shots over 150 meters, and 4 inch accuracy at that distance gets my job done.

Thanks again, sir.

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Here, a grain of salt.

Before the ammo prices went ballastic I was buying the wolf steel cased 45acp ball (FMJ) ammo for $6.72 a box of 50rds. It was $67.20 for a 500rd case. It's boxer primed too. Is it worth shooting steel cased ammo? You bet.....

I reload too but the berdan primed imported steel cased ammo give me some more free time away from the reloading bench.

One point that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet: Ranges can be very unfriendly toward steel case ammo. Why in itself is a can of worms, but I can tell you that none of the ranges I frequent here in the DFW area will allow it, even one of the outdoor ranges.

Exactly, if you have access to your own private range then shoot whichever you want, steel or brass, it is up to you and of course your rifle. If you go to a commercial range, then there are a variety of reasons given for not allowing ammo with bi-metal projectiles. On a side note, do commercial ranges allow you to shoot steel cased ammo if it has a brass projectile, i.e., magnet doesn't stick to the bullet tip? I really don't know, because my range is in my back yard.

SWMP15Pks, before going out and buying up cases of steel case ammo, get a few boxes of each brand first and see what your rifle likes. My MP15OR likes steel case just as good as any of the cheap brass cased ammo. Despite what I have read and heard on the internet, I don't find steel cased ammo any dirtier or harder to clean up after than the cheaper brass cased stuff, either. The smell however is a different thing.

As for reliability some steal cased ammo can be very reliable but it depends on the manufacturer, as I have found in my experience that some brands are just more prone to problems.

Most of the time no. If they prohibit the steel case stuff because of the bi-metal jacket they do not want you shooting any bi-metal case. This often occurs at indoor ranges because of the back stop. Bi-metal jackets are hard on the backstop and ricochets are more common and IIRC there is an increased fire risk.

This used to come up when RWS, Geco, Raug & Dynamit Noble, really all the same ammo from the same parent company just manufactured in different places, came with a bi-metal jacket in a brass case. It was great plinking ammo and there was a time you could get it at Walmart for $6.99 a box. I shot thousands and thousands of it. My Sigs loved it! The only problem is that the bullet is magnetic so a lot of indoor ranges prevented you from shooting it.

I have also seen and heard outdoor rifle ranges which have steel targets prohibiting shooting bi-metal rifle rounds at their steel. I have also been told some of the matches in my local area that have steel portions prohibit the uses of bi-metal jacketed bullets regardless of the case.

Tula works just fine in my Mini 14 as long as you dont do a lot of rapid firing. If ya do you're almost guaranteed a swollen shell failing to extract.

Keep the chamber well-scrubbed and you should not have problems, whatever coats the cases. There are several YouTube videos that discuss the issue and affirm steel cases are fine.
IMO, the most informative is by the Military Arms Channel, titled 'The Truth About Wolf Ammo'

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Registration? NEVER!

I'm just being mischevious, not trying to start an argument, but if you bought boxer primed brass case ammunition and started reloading, you could recycle all the cartridges you bought.

Still, if you have no interest in reloading, then steel case ammunition is an economical choice that has worked well for me the times I have used it.

I have noticed that Hornady is now selling .223 Rem steel case ammo. As Hornady is a major U.S. manufacturer I would think this would help the whole steel case controversy a bit. Now with that said I will not run it through my AR's, may not be rational but that's my view.

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Stay safe people!

One factor to consider when comparing AR to AK ammo is the greater case taper of the x39 fodder, which makes 'sticking' in the chamber more difficult. Cases DO stick in the Commie guns, but it's less likely than with the Western cartridges.
Good chamber cleaning will only help with both setups.

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Registration? NEVER!

Whether it is 10,000 rounds or one round, but clean your weapon after every firing session and you should have no problems, too. Why potentially damage a tool that helps defend human life and limb, domestic pet life and limb, and property, too?

If you're really concerned, get an both improved BCG and an improved charging handle, also. Think a Fail Zero BCG paired with a Raptor charging handle, too. Or you could keep these two sames as reserve parts, too.

Another possibility could be using Hornady or Fiocchi V-MAX/SP ammunition value packs. These are relatively cheap at both Cabela's and Cheaper than Dirt, too.

Also,you should inspect you ammo upon purchase, too. Any dented, rusted, or corroded round should be thrown away. Even better, ask permission to inspect your ammo pre-purchase, too. Cabela's lets me do so.

This is mainly a non-issue. The days of the semi-junk AR-15 SP-1 died when Eagle Arms marketed the first AR-15A2 i 1982. Relax, and enjoy the shooting that is today's AR-15.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

Found this online a while back. Worth the read

It's not worth much. Unless you shoot 6k- 10k rounds in a day those results are meaningless. All that showed is what happens when you heat up your rifle and keep it that way for the whole day. It doesn't show what happens if you shoot 1000k rounds of steel case in a year.

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The Luckygunner article is accurate information, so it's informative. As Arik points out, it may not apply to each shooter's circumstance, but it's nice to know.
Another video (23 minutes) discussing use of steel ammo for training and competition. Again, most of us won't run our guns as hard, but the information and tips are useful--and encouraging for those of us using steel.

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Registration? NEVER!

I have been to multiple machine gun shoots... and the typical M-16 is fed a steady diet of Wolf... multiple thousands of rounds... and any issues are not ammo related... I have seen magazines become targets after the second or third failure... but it has not been the Wolf ammo... if it caused such problems it would not be used... these people do not have the time to waste on such things... but they appear to have all the money they need... and could shoot whatever was required to make the day go smoothly... no point in traveling 6 hours to shoot and spending the day with a broken shell extractor or replacing parts... I used to worry about all the "damage" steel would do to my AR... I stopped after my first shoot with my fun friends... I now buy wolf in 1000 round cased... never looked back...

RE...firing steel case ammo and damage to your gun.

Do you worry about damaging your hammer when you hit a nail?