Finally took the plunge and picked up my first AR. Went with the M&P Sport II. Son and I took it out for some plinking. We shot 3 - 30 round mags of Hornady .223 ammo (55 grain).

It wasn't fast fire. Just normal target shooting. My concern is the barrel got EXTREMELY hot. We shot the 90 rounds in about 15 minutes. Hot enough that the front hand guard was very warm to the touch.

Is this normal? I did my searches here and didn't find any other info with this problem. I completely stripped it down and gave it a good cleaning prior to shooting. Cleaned it when we got home.

Any advice and help is greatly appreciated.

Yes. Normal. Isn't a problem, the heat shields under the handguards are there for that purpose.

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Straight shootin'
SWCA#2439

The Sport 2 does not have heat shields.

That stinks. NO wonder.

To the original poster - get some better handguards. You can probably score some for free or next to nothing. A lot of folks take them off and replace with rails and such.

You want some that look like the attached picture.

Attached Images

33as60i.jpg (37.1 KB, 385 views)

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Straight shootin'
SWCA#2439

Thanks for the help. Since I am new to the AR scene I have lots to learn. Looks like I'll be doing some searching unless someone has something for sale.

Mike first WELCOME from another new Sport owner! I had the same question a couple weeks ago, Man the sucker gets hot lol
You already have your answer from the above posts, I may change the hand guard if I find a good deal . I have been feeding my Sport alot so it is eating extra cash lol
For extra mags check out Mag Warehouse! I got a 6 pack of 30 rounder for 49$ shipped!

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9mm Shield

When the barrel gets hot like that it means to go buy a better AR-15, a Ruger AR-556!
About the magazines, I too got in on that deal as well. But, here is a great deal as well; 30 round PMAGS for $9! At checkout enter the code 9PMAG
MAGPUL PMAG 30rd NON-Window GEN M2 - Black. DSG Arms - Defense Solutions Group, inc.

One more thing, on that PMAG site, scroll down and you will see muzzle guards for .17 cents. That's a darn good deal!

that's one shot , every 10 seconds (if evenly spaced) for 15 minutes, yes the barrel is going to get hot. Its normal .
The faster the shooting the hotter the barrel gets.

WOW great deal on P Mags just what I need to do is spend more $$$ on my Sport lol Thanks

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9mm Shield

That included the time it took to change out the mags and switch shooters.

We have plenty of pmags and ammo. I know; you can never have enough. Just like firearms!
I am a huge Ruger fan and did consider the 556 but this deal came along and I couldn't turn it down. I'll use this as a training tool and someday probably sell it (or my son will take it) and I'll invest in another.

Thanks.

Can't say that I'd call that rate "normal target shooting". That just a bit slower than a mag dump.

Remember what destroys barrels is heat. I've turned down several decent looking used AR's over the years simply because you have no idea what sort of abuse the bore has received without a bore scope.

Yes it gets hot, and I have the scars to prove it !

I broke down and put a extended 13" Keymod rail on mine so very little of the barrel is left exposed..
After a 100 rounds or so the barrel can get very hot...
And as stated I have the scars as well ...

As others have already said, the rate of fire you mentioned and the number of rounds, that is completely normal.

Any firearm I have, if I ran that many rounds through it in 15 minutes would get pretty darn hot. You can feel the barrel start to warm up after about 5 rounds during slow fire, even with a bull barrel.

That is part of the reason precision shooters limit their number of shot strings to no more than four or five. Often times, the group will start to open up if the barrel isn't allowed to cool.

Running a hot barrel also shortens the barrel life due to increased wear.

Yes. 90 rounds in 15 minutes will really warm a barrel up. This is not unique to the S&W M&P-15, any .223 rifle fired at that rate will get hot, whether it is an AR, a Mini-14 or even my new Savage Axis bolt gun.

If you are going to normally shoot at that rate, you may want to invest in a set of handguards that have a thermal liner. You can get an M4 length set of insulated handguards for about $20 (plus shipping): CDNN SPORTS - AR15 M4 HANDGUARD CARBINE INSULATED COLT - GUN PARTS

I actually received a 2nd degree burn on the back of my hand when I accidentally touched the front sight of my AR. That was after a couple of 30 round mags. Not really rapid fire either. But it was a very hot July day.

Get a pair of gloves like Mechanix Tacticals and wear it on your off hand. This is what I do on hot day because I typically wrap my hand around the rail when firing off hand. It will protect your hands from burns and also help you get a firm grip on the rail.

You think your AR gets hot try dumping a 75rnd drum mag through an AK. The smoke pouring off the furniture is rather unnerving.

+1, burnt myself accidentally one too many times so always wear gloves now. Mechanixx are OK, but after trying many brands I've settled on PIG tactical gloves, really good fit hardly effects your dexterity at all and they have conductive fingertips so you can still use your smartphone with them on.

Thanks, HDWHIT! Just ordered. Will also use a glove on off hand.

Keeps your hands warm in the winter too!
Jim

I've been debating getting a handguard with heatshield for my Sport II, as well. I like the feel and look of what it has, so I would get one just like it but with heatshields. What I'm wondering is, does a heatshield in the handguard really make that much of a difference? Is it drastic or just slightly reduced?

So true.. This is why chrome lined barrels were adopted by the military. Imagine an M16A1 on full auto dumping 3 or 4 30 rnd magazines in combat. One decent firefight will ruin an unlined barrel. About the only unlined barrel in an AR I would have would be a strictly target shooting barrel. Any kind of speed shooting guns should have a chrome bore.

Wrap some bacon around the barrel and shoot a little faster

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The barrel on my Sport 1 has seen a few mag dumps.
But, it's the 1/8 twist 5R barrel, not like the coated 1/9 twist barrels S&W is using now.
When I bought my AR-556, I knew it was not chrome lined, but, rumor was, it was NOT even treated! Well, before I bought it I contacted Ruger and they stated it was treated similar to a Melonite coating. So, that made me feel better. And, it's a 1/8 twist.

Bozz10mm wrote:
Well, I'm outside of Dallas and last July, I could have burned myself touching any black colored metal that had been exposed to the full sun. It didn't have to be a gun barrel.

There is a reason that Tanya Tucker once sang that she would "...ride through all of Hell and half of Texas..."

I bought my S&W M&P-15 specifically because it had a 1:9 barrel.

I've been loading .223 Remington/5.56x45 for nearly four decades. I need a rifle that is going to be able to shoot my 45 grain loads as well as my 60 grain loads without causing the lighter bullets to disintegrate half-way to the target. The S&W offers me that. The rifles optimized to shoot heavier bullets do not.

HD, I agree with you. But, from my readings and research, a majority of competitive shooters prefer the 1/7-1/8 twist barrel. I also know that there is only a slight margin in difference between the 1/8 twist and the 1/9 twist.
The original Sport barrel (1/8 5R) is not made any more, which is a shame. I have also read the the "SERIOUS" competitive shooters prefer a 1/7-1/8 5R barrel and will pay a pretty penny for one.

If he's going to make a BLT the mayo and lettuce will cool the barrel down.

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A Country Boy Can Survive

When I first shot my Sport 2 with the original (unshielded) handguards, they didn't get very warm; most likely due to the good ventilation. I did get the Magpul MOE for the heatshield, though, as well as the accessory mounting feature. Plus, I just like the looks.
I will probably pick up a set of GI handguards with the shield, just to have the option.

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Registration? NEVER!

Picked up some handguards with heat shields at gunshow for $5. There was a whole pile of them taken off of ARs that someone upgraded. LGS installed them on my Sport II in a couple mins, no charge. Problem solved.

Yes, it gets hot, but not this hot:

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Freedom isn't free.

The ar 15 range gun I rented still has my burned finger prints on the barrel.

Received the new guards w/ heat shields. Can't wait to get them installed. Bought 500rnds of .223 American Eagle. Made a low offer and seller even threw in 3 fully loaded p-mags. Wish I had time to shoot. It's deer season and we can't shoot on state land for a few months now.

Guys, this is really a great thread. I bought a Sport 2 about 2 months ago and have not fired it yet. I plan on getting out there this coming weekend to the range and seeing how it goes.

I had no idea that 90 rounds in 15 minutes would be that hard on this rifle. Several of you mention potential excess barrel wear if I fire too many rounds in too short a time period. This is kind of troubling. Again, I'm an AR newb.

I knew going in, this was a value priced rifle, so I'm not expecting it to operate like a high end, spendy AR. That said, I figured I might be able to put 500 rounds down range in a few hours. Now I will proceed with great caution. I don't want to wear my Sport 2 out too soon.

I'm not a big fan of the guards on the rifle. Can you guys suggest something that looks a bit more tactical, like on my MP15-22?

Thanks for this awesome thread guys, I learned a lot.

I wouldn't worry about it. Just shoot it. If you perhaps shoot out the barrel in 6000 rounds due to excessive heat, buy a new barrel... problem solved.

LOL, as if I would know where to begin when it comes to installing a new barrel. You're right though. I'm going to shoot it and enjoy it.

Thank you. I concur that competitive shooters seem to want a faster barrel twist, but I don't shoot competitively. I suspect many of the people on this board don't either.

I'm not trying to shoot five shots and come away with one hole in the target. Where I shoot, I have no open spaces larger than about 200 meters, so that's as far as I shoot. I'm interested in punching holes in paper and getting a shot on the vital area of a deer at less than 200 meters. For that, I regard the 1:9 twist to be ideal.

Go back and re-read the posts.

Those comments are NOT specific to this rifle.

90 rounds in 15 minutes will generate a lot of heat IN ANY RIFLE, Colt, Rock River, Savage, etc., not just a S&W M&P-15. And "500 rounds down range in a few hours" is a recipe for shooting out the barrel of ANY rifle.

90 rounds in 15 minutes (6 shots a minute, or one every ten seconds) is not hard on a rifle barrel, any more than several hours at 70mph is hard on a car engine. Eventually both will wear out, but care and maintenence will extend the life greatly.
Heat is a fact of life.
I once read that the cumulative life of any barrel is about 6 seconds; the total time (that very tiny fraction of a second) of bullets are actually being driven down the bore. How long it takes to accumulate those 6 seconds is the barrel's longevity.

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Registration? NEVER!

Even with a standard three or five shot group, feel the barrel before and after, there will be a noticeable temperature difference.

The reason some prefer the five over the three is that usually a fire arm will show if it is going to open up the group or not. If it stays tight with five, you have a good firearm. If it only stays tight with three and opens up after that, one will have to take it under advisement and go from there. I feel a rifle should be able to hold a five shot group and if it doesn't, it needs to be addressed or gotten rid of but that is just my opinion.


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I don't know who's saying this, but you're not gonna hurt this rifle by shooting it. 500 rounds in a few hours? That's nothing.

Yes, the barrel will get warm. No big deal. It's designed to work that way. There is no difference in function between this rifle and one that costs $2K. The more expensive one will be more accurate, but only a few can realize that accuracy.

Go shoot it. Have fun. Don't sweat the small stuff. Unless you have a lot of money, you won't wear out this gun any time soon.

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Freedom isn't free.

I agree, just shoot the thing. All barrels get hot. There's a lot going on inside there. We used to do mag dumps in the Army and put 3-5 20 rounds mags through as fast as we could swap mags. Those barrels would glow orange. Next day we may be shooting at 300 meter targets. I never noticed a problem. And back then I bet the barrels were much worse than what we have now.

The 1/85R: A fabulous barrel from Thompson Center which Smith got when they bought TC. They put it on the Sport for some reason and sold them cheap. It's a great Barrel!! They still have it, you can find it on their target AR's.

Faster twists stabilize slower bullets and spin fast bullets apart. Slower twists stabilize fast bullets and cause slow bullets to tumble. There is an optimum speed for a bullet to spin, and that's what the twist rate is specified for. With AR's you may shoot lighter bullets that go 3200fps or more, you'd like a 1/9 or 1/10 barrel. I think Stoner started with a 1/15 or so.... for heavier slower bullets like 75g or up, the 1/7 barrel will give some advantage. If you see your bullets tumbling, get a faster round or a faster twist barrel.

The Ruger 556? It's not milspec so be prepared for not being able to swap milspec parts on it. Is it a good gun? I've heard it is, but all my AR's are milspec except for my .308.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

I've had smoke rolling off my SKS furniture like it was sending up smoke signals to the Indians. And that only took shooting about 50-60 rounds from detachable mags (yes some of them work just fine that way).

I put a front vertical hand grip on my Sport to deal better with the heat.

I haven't noticed any loss of accuracy due to heat with my SKS either... then again, I haven't ever noticed much accuracy with my SKS to begin with!

If heat is only concern, GI style handgaurds are cheap new, and take offs all but given away.

True Statement 1 - Bbl temperature is a bigger factor in throat errosion than round count per se.

True Statement #2 - The above may or may not matter to you.

If you have a sub MOA gun, and shoot sub MOA ammo, and use such to shoot one hole groups, it is an important thing.

If you shoot generic ammo, and do mostly medium to fast shooting at short to moderate distances, it will take a loong time to notice any Changes.

LOL They certainly aren't match grade for sure.

Mine shoots fairly accurate for what it is - a cheap semi-auto given to soldiers that weren't expected to live long. It will do minute of man at about 250-300 yards shooting off hand. It's well balanced IMO and that extra weight helps keep it steady.

But hey it goes off when I pull the trigger and I can hit the broad side of a barn (maybe not the narrow side) so it served me well all those years an AR was out of my budget.

Mine is about the same. It was cheap, but tough and reliable.

That's an SKS alright. Tough and reliable. And mine was accurate enough to hold the bad guys at bay. It wouldn't be fun to catch one of those 7.62 x 39 rounds in the chest. I wouldn't try to take someone that was firing at me with one that had a full mag. I didn't expect it do what my AR will do which is to shoot pretty darn accurate. And I sure didn't expect it to do what my Savage 12 LRPV or even my Savage 110 will do. That 12 is a real shooter and the 110 is no slouch. Plus it's a 30.06. That really carries a punch.