Trying to decide which red dot sight to put on my SportII.
Looking at the SpitfireII, the Sparc AR or Sparc. Do you recommend just the red dot or the red/green?

I've got a Strikefire II and I like the green for use in daylight, I find the green stands out at a lower brightness setting than the red.

I'm running a sparc ar and am very happy with my decision. All are good budget friendly optics though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sparc AR here, love it!!!!

Strikefire II Has both the red and green dot. I do use both of them in certain situations.

strikefire 2 here also....it works well..budget friendly...and a no fault warranty...whats not to like?

Vortex Strikefire 2 here as well..
Love it...

My Strikefire II only does red but I'm happy with it. There are things the more expensive sights will do but you pay for them. Most impressive is that the higher priced sights will stay turned on for a very long time. The Vortex sights won't do that. It's good to know your sight is going to be ready to operate in a moment's notice. Aimpoint in particular makes sights that stay on for over a year at a time.

Went with the strikefire 2 r/g series. Several reasons why. On a fixed income, so have to go based on budget. The option of either the red or green dot allows me to use the one that best fits lighting conditions. Finally,
with my eyesight/prescription I see less blur/bloom with the larger dot.

__________________
Peace was my Profession

I'm looking to add a red dot to my Sport 2 this week.
I'm between the Vortex Sparc AR and the Vortex Spitfire AR.

Those running either.
Is everything necessary to mount these optics to a Sport 2 included when you buy them?
If not, what EXACTLY do you need to buy and modify?

How are the Vortex's shooting and how is their reliability?


Thanks in advance.




(I'm also considering the Primary Arms as well)
Primary Arms 3X Compact Prism Scope with the Patented ACSS 5.56 Reticle-CP3

Trijicon RMR.

I have tried many red dots. I won't waste my money again on a cheap one.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Cheap means different things to different people. I had people give me "cheap" red dots (the $25 kind) and I tossed them in a box about 10 minutes later. But $200 doesn't really seem "cheap" to me. I'm sure there are those that think it is. If you have a problem with the Strikefire II, Sparc, etc. can you please explain what that problem is? I know about things like better build quality and always on operation. But are there other things I'm missing? I'm not arguing with your choice at all. I just want to understand it a little better. I actually plan on getting a better red dot eventually but I was dealing with a budget when I bought my Strikefire II. In my family we give each other money to spend on things. It isn't money we stick in our pocket and save for something better. We expect each other to have something to show come birthdays, Christmas, etc.. I certainly have more expensive scopes than the Strikefire II. But beyond the things I mentioned I really don't know what all the differences are. Can you educate us?

The Spitfire is a "prism" design much different than a red dot reflex design like the Sparc.

The Spitfire has an etched reticle. One of the benefits is for those with astigmatism the reticle will be sharp, not blurry or distorted like with the Sparc (any red dot reflex design). Another positive is that even if the battery is dead the etched reticle remains useful. The negatives of the prism design is that you don't have unlimited eye relief like a red dot, and co-witnessing with irons will be blurry even though it's rated at 1x. The Spitfire 1x is also on the hefty side at nearly 3/4 pound.

Weighing the positives and negatives between prism and reflex should help you in the decision process.

Between the Sparc and Sparc AR, the differences are pretty well described by Vortex.

As far as multi-color.... eh.... The design and application of the optic is what's important... playing with it like a kaleidoscope not so much.

Happy optics hunting.

I just put a Strikefire II on my New Sport, Now I am new to optics so no expert! For me I think my Strikfire looks well made,has clear glass and am still playing with the dot color to see what is good for me. I can hit the paper at 100 yards with 63 y/o eyes and Bi Focals and can hit a Zombie in the head at 100 yards :O Plus I can miss his head alot as well lol,, Vortex has a GREAT warranty and a good price.. I can not see putting a 500$ Scope or Red Dot on a 600 $ rifle just to hit paper! NOW if I was hunting I would want the best scope I could afford so then 6/1000$ scope would be justified for me! As mentioned we all have our views , and Thanks for this thread I have learned alittle more

Attached Images

	DSC00223.JPG (61.0 KB, 86 views)
	DSC00222.JPG (75.9 KB, 95 views)

__________________
9mm Shield

Is the PRIMARY ARMS red dot better than the BUSHNELL TRS-25?

Not much in it really, I slightly favor the Primary Arms because I prefer the smaller 2MOA dot, but the 3MOA dot on the TRZ-25 is by no means bad and some prefer a larger dot for CQB use, personal preference.

Primary Arms warranty is no hassle, which is a plus too. You'll do fine with either tbh. Wait for a sale the TRS-25 was available for $59.99 last week, and the PA regularly goes on sale for that price tooo.

Just added a Vortex SPARC II to my Sport. Did a lot of research and did not want to spend to much for a red dot, so this is the one that I went for that would not break the bank.

As for now I have not hand time to sight it in. The 2 MOA red dot is very clear, love the way the controls are set up and that it comes with front and back flip up covers.

As you can see I have the height set up as absolute co-witness to my front and back sights. My front sight post is not fixed so I can fold it down not having to co-witness with the red dot. This is just a preference of mine which some would not care for, as they say "To each their own".

Attached Images

	DSC01124.jpg (41.9 KB, 115 views)
	DSC01125.jpg (76.0 KB, 144 views)

__________________
NRA member since 1974

Looks great.

Why didn't you go with the updated version in the Sparc AR ????

Did not like the AAA battery set up. I read that the disc type battery last longer than the triple A, but price wise between both batteries I am sure the triple A is cheaper.

__________________
NRA member since 1974

This is an excellent question and I'll do my best to fully answer it.

You mentioned build quality and always on, but what do those things mean?

The long battery life is self explanatory. If you're going to use a red dot for self-defense, not having to turn it on when you need it should be a no brainer. This alone would put optics like the TRS-25 out of the running if the gun is for self-defense.

Build quality is a more complicated subject. The most obvious aspect is durability. What material it's made of, how it's constructed and how it's engineered are all part of build quality. Ease of operation is also part of build quality. How easy is it to adjust? When adjusted, how well does it stay?

Then people talk about quality of customer service. Primary Arms, Vortex and Trijicon all have fantastic customer service. I don't know about cheaper brands, but then does it matter? I mean, great customer service is...well...great, but wouldn't it be better if you never needed it? So, I want a device that won't break in the first place.

Ultimately it comes down to how you're gonna use it. If you just want to poke some holes in paper at the range, just about any optic will do. Or will it? When I go to the range, the amount of fun I have is proportional to how much work I have to do. If the gun or optic breaks, I'm not having fun. So, I want an optic that isn't going to break, that won't need to be zeroed every time I go to the range and that was easy to zero in the first place.

Have you ever tried to adjust a scope and felt that the adjustments were not positive? Or that they felt kind of squishy? I have. It's much easier to adjust the optic if the clicks are positive and easy to get to. For example, I had a Vortex Sparc, the windage adjustment slot was shaped so a coin could be used to adjust it. However, it was placed too close to the battery compartment and a coin couldn't be used to adjust it because the coin would hit the battery compartment wall. That's a design flaw. Not horrible, but frustrating.

What this means for me is no TRS-25 or similar optics. I have a Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot. I've had to send it back once because the windage adjustment quit working. They fixed it without question and I do think it's a decent enough optic, but it's no Trijicon.

I don't know if this dissertation answers your question. I'm just tired of stuff that doesn't work.

The Trijicon RMR is smaller and lighter than the TRS-25, PA Advanced Micro Dot and similar optics. The dual illuminated version requires no batteries. They are beyond tough. They have clear glass. When you absolutely, positively need an optic to work, these will.

The Aimpoint optics are also very tough, easy to operate and reliable. I've used the Comp M3 and it's a really nice optic. I haven't used the T-2 or H-1, but I'm sure they're fantastic as well. These are made in Italy. I admit that being made in the US biases me toward the Trijicon.

Ultimately you'll have to decide for yourself. All of these are a lot of money. Even $90 is nothing to sneeze at. I've done the cheap ones and I'm willing to take the time to save up to get the right one. If that means my wife gives me $25 at my birthday and I save it toward something more expensive, that works for me. In fact, we both do that for stuff we want.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

I threw the strikefire II on a tavor. In all honesty if you want pin point precision its not the optic you need. You want to hit an 8 inch plate at 200 yards with a 50 yard zero you can with a little practice do it quite consistently. But you need good eyes. The dot can obscure your target at even 100 yards so you need to get to know the distance target and hold. Sounds like any kind of shooting ive ever done

I put a vortext strike eagle on my AR 1x to 6x and find it better however it requires constant focus on 1x to ensure you have a clear target. Magnified it is like any other scope.

Optic choice is based on application and preference and how reliable you need the rig you put together to be.

I've had a SpitfireII on my M4 for nearly two years and for the $350 I paid for it I've been very happy with it.

It does for the most part but the sights I still wonder about are the mid-range priced models like the Vortex sights. You mention they have good customer service but you also mention that the Sparq has a design flaw that makes adjusting it hard. Do you think that applies to the Stikefire II and some of the other Vortex sights? I certainly get that the always on function is important for a SD weapon. And the Vortex sights don't have that. Would you think that's a deal breaker? I know it depends on what you intend to use your rifle for but I'm concerned about using it for SD. I certainly know always on would be better. But I tend to think that the irons are always on if you keep them ready to roll. In a really quick developing situation irons could be used but of course that's not as good as a red dot.

Ultimately I know it comes down to your budget and staying away from obvious junk. The questions about details are best answered by individuals I think but I was interested in your POV. Any former serviceman may have better knowledge about such things than I do. I'm just trying to pick your brain a bit.

Again I bought my Strikefire II because of budget constraints placed on me by my family donating to my birthday present fund. We tend to think we can wait for a bigger holiday (like Christmas) for more expensive gifts. I figure I can get some money back out of my Strikefire when I'm ready to move up an Aimpoint or some other top quality sight. But in the mean time I just wonder how far below the line of acceptability I am currently.

Acceptability? You tell me. You have an optic that it seems you're happy with. That's the only measuring stick that matters. If it's working for you, be happy and press on with it.

I have not owned a Stikefire. I have used Vortex customer service though and found it very good.

Since you mentioned self-defense, I would recommend a different optic that can be left on. No matter how easy it seems to turn it on, when the adrenaline is pumping, it will be hard to activate it. If it's already on, nothing to deal with. Not needing batteries at all is always good.

When it comes to self-defense, I'm with Phil, don't screw around. Your life is infinitely valuable and you want the best tool you can lay your hands on. This is when it boils down to functional reliability. This is another reason I'm sticking with Trijicon. Proven in the field time and again. Expensive? Yes, but worth it. I know it does little good to say this, but you'll see it when you own one.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Vortex is no further below the line than sub $100 budget optics like Primary and Bushnell for purposes of SD.

This is what I meant by "below the line of acceptability". Clearly many don't think it is acceptable because of this one issue. I just wondered if there were others. I appreciate the help.

Based on what?

I'm the first to admit that I'm clueless about optics/guns.
But, Vortex seems to have a good reputation based on my research. Not to mention, a lifetime warranty.

I keep reading this argument made and it still puzzles me if you are not a LEO (which I am not)...No question I see the validity in that a LEO or the like would benefit with that option. Maybe I have tunnel vision on this but a self defense weapon to me is my 3913 or my HK45C I have IWB on my person. Build quality,optic clarity and every other argument made for high end optics I understand. But for the average schmuck like me in a SHTF scenario where my AR is the last line of defense I still think I'll have the 1.5 seconds it takes me to turn it on....but I may be mistaken....it happens

If your handgun is your primary self-defense gun, then I agree, you don't need the option to have the red dot already on.

For those that use a rifle as a bedside gun, the "already on" aspect is absolutely necessary.

Obviously you have to operate at your own level of risk. However, even if you just intend it as a back up, the red dot already on can be a life saver. Even with handguns that have a weapon mounted light, operating the light is not as easy as it seems when there's pressure. I've done exercises with some where they just couldn't operate the light no matter how much time you gave them. Once the adrenaline starts pumping, all bets are off and any extra moves you need to make to bring your gun to bear cost you precious time.

I did an exercise once with two shooters standing next to each other. The object is to hit three targets, one hostage taker and two silhouettes at different distances, as fast as you can without hitting the hostage. Whoever finishes first wins. Sounds simple, right? Yeah, we had one guy who forgot to turn on his red dot. Another forgot to remove the lens cap. Both found out in a hurry just how important that "one second" is. They were both able to correct the issue, but both lost.

Sure, that's just a game, but it gives great insight into what happens when the pressure is on. Do you think it will be more or less pressure when your life is on the line? Think hard before you answer, your life depends on it.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

I think I can get the correct opinion by stating how and what I shoot at with my AR's.
I mostly shoot the Sport 1 because, IMO, the barrel is much better than my Ruger AR-556. I seem to get a tighter group with the Sport 1 when sandbagging with both. But, I might put it on my AR-556, or, buy another one at a later date.
I want a red dot to just look through, see the target anywhere from 10 yards up to 100 yards. If it's going to cost me more money for a red dot to go beyond 100 yards, then, I choose to stay at 100 yards.
So, in what I have stated, what red dot sight should be my choice?

The advantage of a red dot is fast target acquisition via unlimited eye relief and field of view. If you are interested in small groups on paper shooting from bags there is no 1x red dot well suited regardless of price compared to a magnified optic.

But for sake of discussion... you're not going to magically shoot better from the bench using a $700 Aimpoint vs a $100 Primary Arms. They'll both hold zero fine and any small difference in parallax won't be noticeable from the bench with a good cheek weld. You may prefer a small size dot such as a 2moa dot versus a 5moa dot.

For general plinking entertainment... PA vs Vortex vs Bushnell... a red dot is a red dot (absent any QC issues). For duty/SD... that's an entirely different matter.

If price is an issue my advice would be to buy a sub $100 Primary Arms and don't look back. Pay more for a Vortex if you want a lifetime warranty.

point made.....we agree on more than we disagree on

You don't say in your OP what you are going to be using your Sport II for. Use should drive gear, accessories and sights/scopes IMHO.

Without knowing what you intend to do with the rifle and how you intend to use it no one can make intelligent recommendations to meet your needs. All we can do is list what we like based on our needs which may or may not apply to you.

Do you want to use is as a plinker or as a defense/SHTF/duty type optic?

Just about anything will hold zero and let you hit a mansized target at 100 yards. If it doesn't it is defective. IMHO

At the sub $100 I like the Primary Arms regular dot because its cheap.

The next step up is the Primary Arms Advanced dot which can be had with mount on sale for about $169.

I also like the Vortex Sparc II and Sparc AR. Lifetime warranty and borderline ruggedness for duty use but suffer from limited battery life. Both can be had around $169. In a $$$ crunch I believe these could be used for home defense or limited duty use in non-harsh environments. Many will disagree but with proper BUIS if this is all I could afford I would rather had it than not have it.

From there I jump right to the Aimpoint Pro. I skip the ACO unless you can get a killer deal which sometimes you can, $300 is a killer deal. The Pro can be had used LNIB often for $350 and NIB for $400 to $425. This is really where you can start to trust your life with the optic.

The 1st pic is an AIMPOINT RED DOT. The 2nd pic is my red dot & riser I received in the mail today. I was told AIMPOINT makes it, but, does not put their name on it.

Attached Images

	HTB1XG26HXXXXXaHXVXXq6xXFXXXm.jpg (49.7 KB, 63 views)
	1021161225.jpg (52.4 KB, 75 views)

That does not look like an Aimpoint product Disabled1. Here is the riser Aimpoint makes for the optic you pictured:


No matter, what you have will work nicely. I have used a similar riser with good results.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

That's correct, it's NOT an AIMPOINT RISER. I DIDNT state that either. I DID state that the red dot was made by AIMPOINT, according to the advice l received from the gunsmith that suggested l buy it. I will say this though, when l was comparing the 2 together side by side, the cheaper in price one l bought, the red dot was better in every aspect you can ask for in a red dot compared to the HIGH $$$ AIMPOINT! I'm glad l didn't spend big $$$ like a lot of people l see spend on a red dot!
I also watched a few videos, read some very good firearms magazine articles, and, took several shooters and a well known gumsmith's advice, before l bought the red dot. And, it has a lifetime warranty, waterproof, fogproof, shockproof, etc. I'm sort of laughing inside at the little bit of money l spent vs some of the mega $$$ red dots l see people buying!

When I replied to your reply I was on my phone reading your reply. The words were so small, even with my reading glasses on, I was squinting and didn't see the second part of your reply.
I kind of got the feeling you didn't believe me and was "kind of" being sarcastic. But, now that I'm on my laptop, I can see the second part of your reply. Please, don't feel offended.
I think you might know what brand it is and its value if you have used them before as well. There is an AR website that has some hard core AR users on it. If I were to post that red dot there, I would get cut to pieces from the sarcastic replies as to why I didn't spend at least $500 minimum on a red dot!

(Chuckles) It's no big deal Disabled1. I made a mistake too. I thought you were only talking about the riser. I didn't realize you were talking about the optic as well. So, my comment only applies to the riser.

Now that I look closer I can see that's not an Aimpoint optic either. Still, if it works for you, have fun with it.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Ok, I'll bite. What kind of red dot is this? What are the specs? What is the battery life?

I think you got some bad advice on first pass, but with more info I would be willing to research it. I'm always looking for a steal on optics... never have found one though.

It's the FIELDSPORT MICRO RED DOT #D007R. I bought it from Amazon on 10/18/16, along with the .83" Tactical Gear riser mount, and it arrived in the mail 10/20/16. The cost was $19.99 for the red dot and $4.95 for the riser with my Amazon Prime account. With this riser it will co-witness on my Sport 1.
There are A LOT of videos on YOUTUBE about this red dot. Here is the best one;
Budget $20 Red Dot Keeps on Going !!! - YouTube
This is the website for the FIELDSPORT RED DOT.
Welcome to Field Sport! D007R

Is it me, or does your $20 red dot & riser combo look EXACTLY like the Primary Arms red dot they sell for $90 with riser ????

It very well could made at the same factory...using the same housing. Primary Arms are all Chinese made, with a little more quality control and testing before being sent out.

The PA has a removable base.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

At my LGS, the range master/gunsmith told me that AIMPOINT makes these, but, they don't put their name on it. They make them for FIELDSPORT. Also, several other shooters/members at the range stated the same thing. They were the people that advised me to buy the RED DOT ONLY, not the RED/GREEN DOT version!
In this pic, I have it on setting #5. It has 11 settings.

I guarantee you that this is not made by Aimpoint. They are not going to weaken their brand by making a $20 optic. Too much for them to risk... If word got out that they made this and it flopped, it damages their brand. If it was awesome, it damages their brand due to the pricing. You can't get an Aimpoint optic for $20.

It is a Chinese made optic that has been imported for sale in the US. The company looks like they may be trying to copy the Primary Arms model. Their website even looks like the old Primary Arms website.

So the question here is how does it compare to the known qualities of Primary Arms or Bushnell TRS-25? Can you save yourself $40 over the Bushnell?

Why do you keep trying to knock me down? So, I don't have the money that you have, or, any other AR snob that thinks I am below them for buying a cheap red dot! It's all I can afford for now! In order for me to buy a BUSHNELL I would probably have to cut 1 meal a day or something like that. Why don't you just be happy for me and let go at that! Yeah, I own 2 AR's. But, I struggled to save for them. Could I have just saved the money for other things needed in life? Yes. But, if it takes me forever to save for something I want, then I will cut things out of my life! I still have hobbies and interests that I like to do.

Not trying to knock you down. I don't think you are beneath me because you bought a "cheap red dot" either. But you spent your money on some bad advice. That optic is not made by Aimpoint and is not comparable to an Aimpoint.

My statement above was saying that it is more comparable to a Bushnell TRS-25... if the optic works out for you, then you saved yourself $40 over what I feel is a more comparable model. I wasn't saying that you had to go get a Bushnell.

Like I told you in the PM. Mount it and shoot with it. See how it does. If it holds zero, then cool. If it doesn't, send it back.

I know nothing about this particular sight but I do know that companies make unbranded versions of their products and sell them at a greatly reduced price. I've seen it with my own eyes. I bought a winch for my ATV that was half the price of a name brand winch but the parts were identical. I had access to the name brand models and of course to the one I bought. It wasn't a $25 winch but it was way cheaper than the name brand. I've seen this with other items too. The company sells what they can with their brand on it at the higher price but they can make and sell them cheaper if they wanted so they do an unbranded version and deny they ever did it. Again I can't speak for this item but just one example that everyone might get. Isuzu made an SUV in the 1980's called the Rodeo. Honda bought a bunch of them and rebadged them. They sold their model for over $10,000 more than the identical (except for the badges) Isuzu version. It does happen. But even the Isuzu model was $20,000 or so.

GM cyphertext.
Again, I took your reply out of context. I have been on gun websites for a LONG time. Of ALL of them, THIS website is by far the BEST! AR members can come here and be themselves. Those "other" AR forums, well, they hold you to a higher standard. If you don't meet said higher standards then all you are is the scrapings off of their shoes after they walk through something nasty. Here, you can get friendly, knowledgeable information and advice, no matter what make AR you own. That was the one thing that I thought you were infringing on, by being like those "other" websites.
The red dot I purchased was only temporary until I get the money for something better. But, I wanted to get to know what a red dot was first. I figured this one wasn't going to bleed my savings, that and, I received great advice about it.
So, if I came off as to calling you an AR SNOB, you can see why. My apologies go out to you my AR friend.
Ok, now let's get this post back on track. I am going to mount my new toy very soon. When I do I will give an update on my results of how it worked. I will try to take pics of the targets and write on them what each group was and how I fixed/shot the next grouping.