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10-17-2016, 06:56 PM
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courting disaster?
I have .223's in Ruger ranch rifles and Model 70 Winchester. Bought a Sport II in 5.56 and really like it. What happens if I inadvertently shoot 5.56 in my .223's? How about .223 in the Sport II? appreciate any feedback.
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10-17-2016, 07:15 PM
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I am a AR/556 Noob! So IMO a GREAT question!
So my take so far is !
The 223 in a 556 no problem, So far thats all I shot in my New Sport II, But they say DO NOT shoot a 556 in a 223 gun as there is a minor difference between the two.. I am no expert but the experts will give the proper answer, But I think the neck of the 556 may not seat properly! And the PRESSURES are a little hotter then a 223. What failure will you have?I would not want to find out! I will wait to hear from the pros .
I will be waiting to see what the pros say
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10-17-2016, 07:21 PM
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5.56 has higher pressure than .223. I would not chance it.
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10-17-2016, 07:29 PM
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"Can I shoot 5.56 NATO ammunition in my Mini-14 or Ranch Rifle?
With the exception of the Mini-14 Target Rifle, which accepts only .223 Rem. ammunition, .223 Rem. and 5.56 NATO can be used in all Mini-14 rifles and Ranch Rifles.
Please note that "Military Surplus" 5.56mm NATO can vary greatly in its quality and consistency."
Copied off FAQ on the Ruger website.
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10-17-2016, 07:31 PM
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The problem with 5.56 in .223 is that the 5.56 standard chamber has almost twice the leade of a .223. So it depends on how the ammunition is loaded whether it is a problem chambering in a .223 chamber.
The pressure difference is there (62K vs 55K), but IMHO not significant with the model 70 or Ruger Ranch, both of which are very strong rifles, IF the ammunition chambers correctly.
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10-17-2016, 07:32 PM
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Stick with the .223. Almost identical loads in the two calibers from most every manufacturer I see on the shelves, and like has already been said .223 is safe from the 5.56 NATO chamber. So, why not go shoot up all your 5.56 at your next range trip, and stick to only 223 from then on? Up to you...
From what goes on at my local Cabelas the 223 is usually a few cents cheaper anyway. I've heard all kinds of things about how the pressures are different, the case walls are thicker/thinner, the primers being staked, etc. I've never seen anything mentioned about ballistics, (I'm guessing because they are so close its a non factor...).
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10-17-2016, 07:39 PM
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If you are shooting 55 grain FMJ bullets, your rifle will not tell the difference between 223 Remington and 5.56 NATO. The difference is very similar to 6 eggs versus a half-dozen.
There is all the data, statistics, and warnings but 30,000 rounds fired through 5 different rifles proved to me there ain't much difference. There is a difference in energy levels in different countries loadings of the ammo. I wouldn't shoot any Korean ammo of any caliber in any of my firearms.
YMMV.
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10-17-2016, 08:03 PM
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Check the paperwork with your Ruger and/or their website. Ruger has long cut 5.56 mm chambers in their rifles and it's safe to use 5.56 x 45mm ammo in those with the correct chamber.
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10-17-2016, 08:06 PM
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Wikipedia's entry on the 5.56x45 cartridge contains a section explaining the differences.
5.56x45mm NATO - Wikipedia
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10-17-2016, 08:07 PM
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Bill Ruger himself covered this issue in an interview way back in the dark ages, in which he said, apparently in his gruff style, that his Mini 14 chamber could handle 5.56 NATO without issue even though the rifle was sold, likely for "sporting purposes," as a .223.
As to the bolt actions, I suggest you stay with the caliber marked on the rifle.
As to the Sport II, it will shoot either 5.56 or .223 without issue.
Good luck.
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10-17-2016, 08:21 PM
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The only primers I've ever blown were when I shot some WCC99 in a Bushmaster National Match. It happens, particularly in a tight match chamber.
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10-17-2016, 09:00 PM
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5.56 has higher pressures than .223 so a barrel rated at 5.56 will handle the .223 no problem, but not vise versa. Easy to remember.
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10-17-2016, 09:16 PM
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What happens if you shoot 5.56 in your .223? Probably nothing, but it's not a good idea to make a habit of it just in case.
I only shoot .223 in my 5.56 rifles. It costs a bit less, and I am cheap.
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10-17-2016, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer1911
If you are shooting 55 grain FMJ bullets, your rifle will not tell the difference between 223 Remington and 5.56 NATO. The difference is very similar to 6 eggs versus a half-dozen.
There is all the data, statistics, and warnings but 30,000 rounds fired through 5 different rifles proved to me there ain't much difference. There is a difference in energy levels in different countries loadings of the ammo. I wouldn't shoot any Korean ammo of any caliber in any of my firearms.
YMMV.
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And not just that. How many people are/were buying the Federal 556 overruns? Norwegian, Lithuanian, Israeli, Serbian military 556. All those people buying it to shoot in their Colts, S&W, Ruger, DD, Bushmaster, Windham, ...bla bla bla.....by now you'd think there'd be hundreds of videos online of people posting problems. Because we all know it WILL be on YouTube
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10-17-2016, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn mccarver
As to the Sport II, it will shoot either 5.56 or .223 without issue.
Good luck.
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This. Just like mentioned above, but prettier. For me, its like having two different powders on the bench. Don't do it, and mistakes are not possible. Do so, and it's only a matter of time till uncle Murph shows up at the door with a hospital bill and a ruined firearm... Why chance it? If you can show me the point of impact difference between the same load in a 223 vs a 556 I'd be impressed.
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10-18-2016, 09:34 AM
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For whatever it is worth..... I have a Remington Model 722 that was .222 and had it rechambered to .223. I also have a Winchester Model 70 chambered in .223.. I have shot 5.56mm ammo in both of them with absolutely no problems. If you have a good bolt action rifle, such as a Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Savage, etc., I believe that these actions are strong enough to handle any 5.56 ammo..
JMHO
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10-18-2016, 09:41 AM
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My .223 bolt guns are CZs............Model 527s....... CZ in their literature and on their website say their guns can handle both .223 and 5.56.
The general consensus is that .223 is GTG in 5.56........... but some .223 chambers may be to tight for 5.56...... don't force it!!!!
Now how about..... 7.62 vs .308 .....
Last edited by BAM-BAM; 10-18-2016 at 09:44 AM.
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10-18-2016, 11:07 AM
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Simple answer is shoot what is marked on your Barrel.
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10-18-2016, 12:01 PM
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I have a Ruger No.1 varmint in .223. It is plenty stout, but the 1-12 twist barrel does poorly with bullets heavier than 55 grains. 5.56 NATO (the REAL stuff with the circle cross headstamp) has always been a 62 grain bullet. This goes back to the late 70's.
" In 1977, NATO members signed an agreement to select a second, smaller caliber cartridge to replace the 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge.[8] Of the cartridges tendered, the 5.56×45mm NATO was successful, but not the 55 gr M193 round used by the U.S. at that time. Instead, the Belgian 62 gr SS109 round was chosen for standardization. The SS109 used a heavier bullet with a seven grain steel core for better penetration against lightly armored targets,specifically to meet a requirement that the bullet be able to penetrate through one side of a steel helmet at 600 meters. It had a slightly lower muzzle velocity but better long-range performance. This requirement made the SS109 (M855) round less capable of fragmentation than the M193 and was considered more humane."
So, if you are shooting an older, slow twist, .223 will be what you want, not the 'green tip' your National Guard buddy cadged from last AT.
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10-18-2016, 02:59 PM
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Inadvertently. He said inadvertently. Good information, but I don't think he's planning on intentionally shooting lots of rounds other than what's specified for his rifles.
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10-18-2016, 03:08 PM
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o.k., I think I will use up my 5.56 and begin buying .223 from now on, just to be ultra safe. I appreciate all of the responses.
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10-18-2016, 03:14 PM
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IMO.. this is another one of those old wives tails-voodoo stories that have taken root in recent years. Until recently I have not heard of these differences-dangers. I think they get repeated enough and then become gospel, like +P in the .38 Special.
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10-18-2016, 07:09 PM
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I believe 5.56 casing are thicker which puts the powder in a tighter area bringing the pressure in the casing a lot higher than .223.
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10-18-2016, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poordevil
IMO.. this is another one of those old wives tails-voodoo stories that have taken root in recent years. Until recently I have not heard of these differences-dangers. I think they get repeated enough and then become gospel, like +P in the .38 Special.
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What is wrong with +P in 38 spl?
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10-19-2016, 12:11 AM
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I'll just leave this right here:
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10-19-2016, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricrock
What is wrong with +P in 38 spl?
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Nothing is wrong with +P .38 Spl. But it seems to have acquired a super power mystic that people are always asking
" is +p safe in my this or that size frame revolver....or even in my .357 Mag."? It has become a boogie man story and people are afraid of it.
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10-19-2016, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plazzman
I believe 5.56 casing are thicker which puts the powder in a tighter area bringing the pressure in the casing a lot higher than .223.
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That, and 5.56 has more powder in 'em.
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10-19-2016, 11:30 PM
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A general good rule of thumb is you can shoot .223 out of a 5.56 chambered rifle but should not shoot 5.56 out of a .223 chambered rifle.
Have people done it? Yep. Have they done it successfully for years? Yep. It comes down to the chamber tolerance, the barrel quality, and a bunch of other factors. It's better not to play roulette that your firearm can do it.
The one common exception to the above rule of thumb is the .223 wyld (SP?) chambered firearms. Because of how the chamber is reamed, it can shoot 5.56 with no concern of a potential issue.
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10-19-2016, 11:33 PM
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This is an open question. Has any rifle chambered for .223 Remington ever broker or blown up because a .556 Nato was fired in it?
I have never hear of it happening.
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10-19-2016, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poordevil
This is an open question. Has any rifle chambered for .223 Remington ever broker or blown up because a .556 Nato was fired in it?
I have never hear of it happening.
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That's why I answered the way I did. I have read where people have shot 5.56 NATO out of a .223 Remington chambered rifle for years with never any problems. Due to manufacturer recommendations, the various dimensional differences, and the pressure differences, I defer on the side of caution.
Now I do some what break the "rules" myself. Meaning I shoot .308 Winchester out of a 7.62X51 NATO chambered rifle. The pressure differences aren't as high and the rifle I am talking about has a medium bull barrel on it. Plus, the manufacturer did not warn against shooting the more powerful cartridge out of it. And lastly, I've never seen anyone mention problems or primer pressure signs from doing so. It may have been a bit of a minor gamble but due to research I did prior to trying it, I felt it was a safe one to make.
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10-25-2016, 12:55 PM
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Well if one can shoot many and many rounds for years...then we should be able to conclude that it is safe to do so. At the very lest, its not dangerous and no explosion will occur.
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10-25-2016, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poordevil
Well if one can shoot many and many rounds for years...then we should be able to conclude that it is safe to do so. At the very lest, its not dangerous and no explosion will occur.
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When you continuously blow primers you will damage the bolt face due to flame cutting. It happens.
It may not be dangerous but it will damage your rifle.
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10-25-2016, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poordevil
Well if one can shoot many and many rounds for years...then we should be able to conclude that it is safe to do so. At the very lest, its not dangerous and no explosion will occur.
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Like Michiganscott said, be careful with that. If there are over pressure signs, something will eventually get damaged, even if it isn't a catastrophic failure.
For example. I have a Mossberg MVP Patrol chambered in 5.56. I found a spent primer in the action upon initial cleaning after buying it new. Thus far, I have only shot .223 through it, so have not had a chance to check if it was just factory junk or a potential problem. With that in mind, when I DO get a chance to shoot some 5.56, I will be carefully inspecting spent cases for over pressure signs. Being that it is clearly marked on the barrel as a 5.56 and sold that way, it should not be an issue but if it is, Mossberg will be getting a call.
I have done that with my 7.62 MVP because it isn't chambered for .308 and over pressure can be a problem. The chances are good that I won't have a problem with tolerance stacking but my luck isn't that great either. Murphy's Law likes to visit and I sweat the man setup residence at my house. Better to be safe than sorry. Once the trigger is pulled, you can't call or wish it back.
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10-26-2016, 01:11 PM
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If your AR-15 has 556 on the barrel you can shoot either 556 or 223 all day long. I looked at my S&W Sport II and it has 556 on the barrel as did my PSA and DPMS AR 15's. The only rifle I have that says 223 on the Barrel is a Browning A Bolt and I shoot 223 through it as I reload my own ammo.
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10-26-2016, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Well if one can shoot many and many rounds for years...then we should be able to conclude that it is safe to do so. At the very lest, its not dangerous and no explosion will occur.
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That's not the conclusion you should draw. A person can shoot over-pressure loads repeatedly, but they are stressing the components of the gun beyond their limits accelerating fatigue and they will fail eventually. The problem is that failure may be catastrophic and result in injur or death.
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10-26-2016, 08:02 PM
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Check your barrel markings some Ruger Mini 14's are marked 5.56, so one can shoot both 5.56 and 223.
The older ones may not be marked as such and the guessing begins, did they just add the 5.56 with a minor chamber mod and or a change to barrel twist or did they just remark the barrels of the newer ones.
Every Mini 14 on the Ruger website is marked 5.56 safe, but I would swear the older ones were not marked as such.
The reason I know about the 5.56 markings on the barrels is I purchased one last Saturday.
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10-26-2016, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penmon
Every Mini 14 on the Ruger website is marked 5.56 safe, but I would swear the older ones were not marked as such.
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Prior to the Ranch rifle, the Mini-14 was marked .223Rem. That was a long time ago.
Yes, firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber could be problematic, but considering Ruger's reputation for building tough guns, I don't think it would be a problem in any Mini-14.
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10-26-2016, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
What happens if I inadvertently shoot 5.56 in my .223's?
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Nothing.
Inadvertently firing a 5.56 round in a modern 223 gun in good condition should not cause a problem. Regularly and routinely firing 5.56 in a 223 can cause problems and should be avoided.
Since you have both, you should purchase and shoot 223 ammunition to avoid any inadvertent mix-ups.
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