Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?

leedesert · #**101** 02-07-2017, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaPes

The advice that a few others and I give is that after the initial clean, inspect, lube, is to fire between 250 - 500 rounds through your stock, fully furnished, AR-16, as it came out of the box. If you have an optics model or one that requires you to mount a front sight, mount whatever you need to aim the rifle. Why do I give this advice?

First, most people assume that a defect in a rifle is going to be something easy for the unitiated to remedy on their own. Some assume that everyone has enough mechanical aptitude to safely work on their firearm beyond a basic field strip. If someone recognizes that they don't know what they're doing, then a factory warranty / lifetime service policy is a godsend.

Second, what if it's a material defect in the rifle that isn't remedied by installing a cheap part? What if the upper receiver's barrel seating notch is slightly out of spec, throwing off the barrel, which then throws off the mating between the locking lugs on the bolt to the chamber lugs that causes intermittent issues? What if there was a flaw in the gas port which causes an intermittent issue? What if the rifle wasn't properly head spaced? What if the barrel's chamber has a burr in it, was reamed slightly off, etc. I've seen some odd-ball issues pop up from time to time with AR-15's that aren't easily remedied by a novice to intermediate enthusiast.

Third, say you take your factory fresh AR-15 out of the box. The AR-15 disease has already hit you. Before you hit the range, you ditch the A2 front sight post for a low pro gas block. You ditch delta ring and standard two piece drop in hand guard for a free float with a proprietary barrel nut. Might as well replace the trigger and install KNS anti-rotation pins. Pop in a heavier buffer because you've read posts and seen "the ejection chart" online. Find a NiBx BCG for $75? Install that too. You then take your decked out AR-15 to the range, where everyone has an AR-15 and they all basically look the same. You fire rounds. You start to have issues. Be it the 1st round or the 500th. Can't be! What went wrong? You've changed out enough to possibly affect the proper operation of your rifle. Time to put it all back to stock form so you can send it in. How hard was it to pound out those reverse taper front sight block pins?

I know this was for someone else but I feel like you read my mind. I did about everything you mentioned to my MOE mid length and it is perfect for me now and shoots great after 500+rounds. I also added the Larue 3.5T trigger kit and the break is so much sweeter now.

vonn · #**102** 02-07-2017, 01:50 PM

I would really be interested in how much most of these AR's weigh? Stock and modified.

Mark IV · #**103** 02-07-2017, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vonn

I would really be interested in how much most of these AR's weigh? Stock and modified.

I can't say exactly, but I know my carbine is noticably heavier and unwieldy after mounting just a little 2-7x scope and mount.
In fact I'm currently waffling between mounting this scope again on this latest rifle, or leaving it as is.
I love having the useful features of the scope, but I just hate how it makes the rifle feel so much less nimble.
It's surprising how such a relatively light,small package (scope and mount) can have such a noticable effect.

ChattanoogaPhil · #**104** 02-07-2017, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vonn

I would really be interested in how much most of these AR's weigh? Stock and modified.

Depends on what it is. Say a guy wants to install a free float handguard.

A2 front sight vs low profile gas and MBUS. Probably lighter.

A lot of slim free float handguards are under 10oz these days. A few ounce heavier than than standard handgaurd.

If a guy mounted something like a Vortex Strikefire on a Sport versus the Sport with the above changes and a Microdot it'd probably be close to a wash.

If a guy installs a 14.5in or lightweight profile barrel it would be lighter.

Some stocks weight an ounce or two lighter.

Depends....

leedesert · #**105** 02-07-2017, 03:32 PM

I know the mid length MOE hand guard is 12.13 oz. The A2 front sight averages around 6-7oz.
Total = 19oz best case scenario.

My change.
MI G3 12" Mlok handguard. 9.4oz
Low Pro gas block 3 oz
Magpul MBUS sight 1.2 oz

Total = 13.6 oz

Total saved = 5.4oz

Doesn't sound like much but remember that weight is suspended toward the front of the gun so after a long day of shooting it adds up.

Also, my surefire G2X light I have mounted on this rifle weighs 4.4 oz so its lighter overall with the light than it was before without the light.

Flash_80 · #**106** 02-08-2017, 12:50 AM

Doesn't take long to get fat. My Leatherwood CMR4 on a PEPR mount is currently off the gun sitting on a shelf, and I'd swear it doubles as a boat anchor.

Brian in Oregon · #**107** 02-08-2017, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vonn

I would really be interested in how much most of these AR's weigh? Stock and modified.

S&W says their Sport II weighs 103.2 oz, which is 5.45 lbs. I don't know if they are including the magazine in that figure. Most rifle manufacturers do not include the mag in their weight figure.

My Sport II has:

Magpul CTR buttstock;
Magpul MLOK forend;
Magpul MLOK Quick detach sling adapter on the forend;
SIG drum rear sight on a 1/2" Picatinny riser base;
EOTech 552 on a Yankee Hill cowitness riser;
Magpul 20 round PMAG (no ammo)

Total weight is exactly 8.0 lbs.

Interestingly, my Remington R-15 18" predator carbine with a free float tube weighs 6-3/4 lb empty (one lb more than the Sport II) but weighs exactly the same dressed up, 8.0 lbs, with a Leupold Mark AR 3-9x on an ARMS riser base, rings and with a 20 round PMAG.

Now if anyone wants to complain about weight.....

....this weighs 15 lbs as you see it. Obviously I don't shoot it offhand.

stwings · #**108** 02-12-2017, 10:50 AM

For the same reason people will buy a Ford Focus and then try and make it a Mustang.

Flash_80 · #**109** 02-13-2017, 08:59 PM

Buy a Sport and change it up. Or build one from the ground up with the least expensive upper/lower/barrel. Its all a starting point. Is there a rule that says you must spend $$$$ on something? If you buy that LS model Silverado and put $1500 worth of rims on it, do you expect someone to tell you that you should have just bought the LTZ to begin with?

cyphertext · #**110** 02-15-2017, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash_80

Buy a Sport and change it up. Or build one from the ground up with the least expensive upper/lower/barrel. Its all a starting point. Is there a rule that says you must spend $$$$ on something? If you buy that LS model Silverado and put $1500 worth of rims on it, do you expect someone to tell you that you should have just bought the LTZ to begin with?

Well, if we are going to use car analogies, my son has a Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner... basically a two wheel drive with the same suspension set up as the four wheel drive. We could buy all the parts, or get them from a donor truck to make his a four wheel drive, but it sure would be easier to just buy a four wheel drive if that is what we really want.

Same with the Sport... You can change barrels, swap BCG, change to a low profile gas block, free float the barrel, ad nauseum... but at some point, you would be better off just buying a rifle configured in the style you wanted from the beginning.

Disabled1 · #**111** 02-15-2017, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Well, if we are going to use car analogies, my son has a Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner... basically a two wheel drive with the same suspension set up as the four wheel drive. We could buy all the parts, or get them from a donor truck to make his a four wheel drive, but it sure would be easier to just buy a four wheel drive if that is what we really want.

Same with the Sport... You can change barrels, swap BCG, change to a low profile gas block, free float the barrel, ad nauseum... but at some point, you would be better off just buying a rifle configured in the style you wanted from the beginning.

I agree. But then, where would the fun factor be if you just buy it like you want it VS changing everything out?

leedesert · #**112** 02-15-2017, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Well, if we are going to use car analogies, my son has a Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner... basically a two wheel drive with the same suspension set up as the four wheel drive. We could buy all the parts, or get them from a donor truck to make his a four wheel drive, but it sure would be easier to just buy a four wheel drive if that is what we really want.

Same with the Sport... You can change barrels, swap BCG, change to a low profile gas block, free float the barrel, ad nauseum... but at some point, you would be better off just buying a rifle configured in the style you wanted from the beginning.

A rifle that's configured the way you wanted from the start will cost more than if you build it yourself. Also, unlike a $40,000 truck, you can always just buy another AR15 since you can configure them for different missions.

cyphertext · #**113** 02-15-2017, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disabled1

I agree. But then, where would the fun factor be if you just buy it like you want it VS changing everything out?

Depends on your idea of fun, I guess. Some guys like to work on cars... me, I want to just put gas in it and drive.

cyphertext · #**114** 02-15-2017, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leedesert

A rifle that's configured the way you wanted from the start will cost more than if you build it yourself. Also, unlike a $40,000 truck, you can always just buy another AR15 since you can configure them for different missions.

No, not always, and especially with where prices are today. I would need to see a cost analysis to show that I could build it for less. Most folks forget to account for their time and tools when making that statement.

Pro2nd · #**115** 02-15-2017, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext

No, not always, and especially with where prices are today. I would need to see a cost analysis to show that I could build it for less. Most folks forget to account for their time and tools when making that statement.

I do hear and understand that.. for SOME people..

But for others, that is relaxation/fun time..

And when it comes to figuring in the cost of tools,
Once someone has either saved or earned the amount of money that they spent on their tools, that is a total wash..

For example.. if I figured in how many times I used my 265 piece socket set every time I did a job.
that $200 set, would now be worth thousands.. LOL

cyphertext · #**116** 02-15-2017, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

I do hear and understand that.. for SOME people..

But for others, that is relaxation/fun time..

And when it comes to figuring in the cost of tools,
Once someone has either saved or earned the amount of money that they spent on their tools, that is a total wash..

For example.. if I figured in how many times I used my 265 piece socket set every time I did a job.
that $200 set, would now be worth thousands.. LOL

I get that, but if you buy a $85 armorers wrench and build one rifle, that $85 is a cost of building the rifle. If the rifle you built ends up costing $75 less than one off the shelf in the same config, in reality you spent $10 more PLUS your time. Even if it is relaxation/fun to you, that time has a value.

I was mainly commenting on the car analogy though. If you buy a truck and all you are going to do is put fancy wheels on it, that is the equivalent of buying a Sport and changing the furniture... no big deal, not a lot involved.

But if you are going to buy a Sport and try to turn it into a VTAC II rifle, might as well be making a 4 wheel drive out of a 2 wheel drive.

And just for the record, my son is a high school kid... his truck is not a $40,000 truck... it's a 2003 model

Flash_80 · #**117** 02-15-2017, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Well, if we are going to use car analogies, my son has a Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner... basically a two wheel drive with the same suspension set up as the four wheel drive. We could buy all the parts, or get them from a donor truck to make his a four wheel drive, but it sure would be easier to just buy a four wheel drive if that is what we really want.

Same with the Sport... You can change barrels, swap BCG, change to a low profile gas block, free float the barrel, ad nauseum... but at some point, you would be better off just buying a rifle configured in the style you wanted from the beginning.

Full 4WD front end swap out is a little different ballpark than just slapping a rail and a trigger on an AR I think. Thats a pretty extreme undertaking.

Flash_80 · #**118** 02-15-2017, 06:33 PM

Anyone buying a Sport II and then dumping an extra $1000 in it, well thats their money and problem. Me, I'd consider that stupid as all get out. But buying a Sport as a base and swapping the plug and play items - trigger, rail, stock, grip - well thats to be expected. Because you can spend more on something and then change out the same stuff again and that $1200 rifle is now even more expensive.

That last AR I got was like $1200. I've since changed the stock, grip, and added a Daniel Defense drop in rail to it. Could I have paid about the same and got something better up front - well, not in April of 2013 I couldn't.

But as for the Sport II just bought, I added a free float rail to it and bought an MBUS front sight. Gun $525, rail $175, Sight $28. I'm not buying something else I want for that price. As for adding an optic, you're doing that to anything else you buy. And grip/stock/trigger - whatever else you buy probably isn't coming with the higher end rifle.

Flash_80 · #**119** 02-15-2017, 06:35 PM

And I also agree, should have got that 4wd up front. Prerunner is just Mall Rated.

WVSig · #**120** 02-15-2017, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash_80

Anyone buying a Sport II and then dumping an extra $1000 in it, well thats their money and problem. Me, I'd consider that stupid as all get out. But buying a Sport as a base and swapping the plug and play items - trigger, rail, stock, grip - well thats to be expected. Because you can spend more on something and then change out the same stuff again and that $1200 rifle is now even more expensive.

That last AR I got was like $1200. I've since changed the stock, grip, and added a Daniel Defense drop in rail to it. Could I have paid about the same and got something better up front - well, not in April of 2013 I couldn't.

But as for the Sport II just bought, I added a free float rail to it and bought an MBUS front sight. Gun $525, rail $175, Sight $28. I'm not buying something else I want for that price. As for adding an optic, you're doing that to anything else you buy. And grip/stock/trigger - whatever else you buy probably isn't coming with the higher end rifle.

I feel you on that type of purchase but I think that there might be better deals like this.

$509 shipped to your FFL + a $25 gift card at Brownells which you can use to buy your stock, rail of choice and sight set.

You now have a mid length carbine with an excellent spec that for me would work better.

As I have said many times for me if I wanted a truck gun I would look at the S&W Sport II. Throw a used Aimpoint Pro and a LaRue trigger in it and call it a day. Perfectly serviceable carbine for under $900 with a duty ready/combact ready optic and a great trigger that I don't have to worry about bouncing around in the trunk.

Pro2nd · #**121** 02-16-2017, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVSig

$509 shipped to your FFL + a $25 gift card at Brownells which you can use to buy your stock, rail of choice and sight set.

You now have a mid length carbine with an excellent spec that for me would work better.

LOL!...........

WVSig · #**122** 02-16-2017, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

LOL!...........

So insightful. I am not sure what to make of your comment. I am willing to bet you are ignorant of who Aero is and the quality of their products but honestly that does not surprise me.

Pro2nd · #**123** 02-16-2017, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVSig

So insightful. I am not sure what to make of your comment. I am willing to bet you are ignorant of who Aero is and the quality of their products but honestly that does not surprise me.

No man, I just think it is pathetic how much you whine about the sport II and what people decide to do with THEIRS..

I don't understand why it offends you so much? That's all..
Carry on....

Flash_80 · #**124** 02-16-2017, 08:21 PM

Agreed, good deal. Just comes down to whether you want that or the S&W really. Wouldn't call it a better deal, but its comparable. The Sport was pretty much the same price and you could shoot it the day you got it in the case that you didn't have the hardware on hand yet.

WVSig · #**125** 02-16-2017, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash_80

Agreed, good deal. Just comes down to whether you want that or the S&W really. Wouldn't call it a better deal, but its comparable. The Sport was pretty much the same price and you could shoot it the day you got it in the case that you didn't have the hardware on hand yet.

I agree. I have no issues with the Sport II and recommend it all the time to people I just make sure they understand what is involved in changing things out.

I think so many entry level shooters are told that it is simple to modify their AR15 so the original configuration is not an issue but they don't understand gas blocks, gas tubes, gas lengths, free floating vs standard etc...

All they see is price and have been sold on the idea AR15s are ticker toys easily modified.

Today I was at the range as saw a guy with his new build. Used a Spikes trigger groups but swapped out the standard spring for a light spring and it was light striking every other round. It was his first build. He did not know what was wrong and I am sure is posting right now on some board on how to fix it.

He is the type of guy I would have told get a Sport II leave it alone. Shoot the **** out of it. After you learn how the AR15 works then go out and build one.

Disabled1 · #**126** 02-16-2017, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

No man, I just think it is pathetic how much you whine about the sport II and what people decide to do with THEIRS..

I don't understand why it offends you so much? That's all..
Carry on....

IMHO, the Sport II is WAY over rated! But, as you know, opinions are like donkey holes........But, it's a good AR. Heck, with them selling at $400-$425, I would buy one if I had the money.
I own a Sport I and like it VERY MUCH! I also own a AR-556.
I am building an AR. So far I have a $50 Anderson lower, a MAGPUL MBUS rear sight, and the BCG from my AR-556.
WVSig DOES have the right idea though. The AERO platform is a GREAT way to start with an excellent AR build. I would buy it as well, if I had the money.

fyimo · #**127** 02-16-2017, 11:03 PM

I have a S&W M&P Sport II, a DPMS Oracle, and a PSA Freedom Stainless and I have left them basically stock except for scopes and mounts. They are all excellent in terms of firing without feeding problems. They all shoot about the same size groups with the PSA Freedom with a 1 and 7 barrel twist being the most accurate. The only other changes I added was to install Magpul CTR stocks on them that have both the Quick release sling hole and the friction lock which eliminates the wiggle in the adjustable stock. With these changes I'm done with changing them and now I just want to shoot them a lot.

Pro2nd · #**128** 02-16-2017, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVSig

I think so many entry level shooters are told that it is simple to modify their AR15 so the original configuration is not an issue but they don't understand gas blocks, gas tubes, gas lengths, free floating vs standard etc...

All they see is price and have been sold on the idea AR15s are ticker toys easily modified.

He is the type of guy I would have told get a Sport II leave it alone. Shoot the **** out of it. After you learn how the AR15 works then go out and build one.

As for me.. I was already well educated on all of the above.. and still choose the Sport Two.. And have no plans what so ever on purchasing another AR 15....

And as far as "Entry Level Shooter" I have been blasting rounds since the 70's

Point is.. Not EVERYONE just HAS to have the best of the best etc, to be happy with their (insert whatever)..

Brian in Oregon · #**129** 02-17-2017, 01:02 AM

I looked at the "OEM" guns, which are simply sans furniture. Good deals if they meet your specs. None met my specs. The Sport II did.

As for this thread....

Flash_80 · #**130** 02-17-2017, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disabled1

IMHO, the Sport II is WAY over rated!

How can you call a $500 production AR overrated? Bargain maybe, but seriously should it be a $300 gun then? Hard to be over rated at a dirt floor price point in comparison to everything else thats out there. If it cost $700, I might agree with you. Thats almost in the same league as calling a Hi Point, Heritage Rough Rider, or NEF Handi Rifle over rated.

Disabled1 · #**131** 02-17-2017, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash_80

How can you call a $500 production AR overrated? Bargain maybe, but seriously should it be a $300 gun then? Hard to be over rated at a dirt floor price point in comparison to everything else thats out there. If it cost $700, I might agree with you. Thats almost in the same league as calling a Hi Point, Heritage Rough Rider, or NEF Handi Rifle over rated.

"Yawn, Stretch"

JaPes · #**132** 02-17-2017, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash_80

How can you call a $500 production AR overrated?

Because some of us remember when S&W was crazy enough to install a Thompson Center, 1:8 5R progressive gain twist, Melonite barrel in the entry level gateway Sport V1.0. The rifle was also equipped with a very nice chopped A2 rear sight, not those plastic flip up abominations that are everywhere now.

WVSig · #**133** 02-17-2017, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian in Oregon

I looked at the "OEM" guns, which are simply sans furniture. Good deals if they meet your specs. None met my specs. The Sport II did.

As for this thread....

Don't think it's a dead horse at all. Any rifle is only a good deal or a bad deal if it meets your specs. The whole point of the thread is that it seems like lots of people buy rifles like the Sport II when the gun doesn't seem to fit their needs requiring modification of the gun.

Sometimes that modification is very basic other times it seems more involved and that maybe another rifle would have been a better starting point. If you are done with the topic I respectfully suggest you stop posting in the thread.

cyphertext · #**134** 02-17-2017, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash_80

But as for the Sport II just bought, I added a free float rail to it and bought an MBUS front sight. Gun $525, rail $175, Sight $28. I'm not buying something else I want for that price. As for adding an optic, you're doing that to anything else you buy. And grip/stock/trigger - whatever else you buy probably isn't coming with the higher end rifle.

So you are at $203 for your additional items, plus your time, agree?

Or, you could have bought the new M&P 15T with the free float M-Lok rail for $869. Yes, it is $141 more than your Sport, but you get the 1:8 twist, 5R barrel and possibly mid length gas (specs at store say it is, but S&W site has no mention of it).

Or like WVSig pointed out, go with the Aero OEM, get the handguard of your choosing, and come away with a rifle with better specs than the Sport on paper for the same money spent.

cyphertext · #**135** 02-17-2017, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVSig

I think so many entry level shooters are told that it is simple to modify their AR15 so the original configuration is not an issue but they don't understand gas blocks, gas tubes, gas lengths, free floating vs standard etc...

All they see is price and have been sold on the idea AR15s are ticker toys easily modified.

This is the point right here...

If you have the skills, knowledge, and experience to take a $500 Sport and make it comparable to a higher cost rifle for less money, then rock on!

But if you were just asking what size handguards you need two days ago, this build up of a Sport is probably above your current skill set.

Pro2nd · #**136** 02-17-2017, 11:06 AM

Okay to answer the OP Question.. (As if it has not been answered a few times already)..

"Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?"

"Most of the time is seems to revolve around the A2 post and the handguards but if you have posted here long enough you know what I mean. So if all these people are going to rip the handguards off their basically NIB Sport II and remove the front A2 post, gas block and the handguards I have to ask. ".
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think there is any single answer that would cover everyone...

1. I think the handguard and grip is a given and VERY common items changed out on New AR purchases..

2. I do believe some folks may pick up the sport II not realizing what all would be involved in swapping out that front A2 post, Gas block etc.

3. The name.. Some folks just dig SMITH and WESSON, and when they stumble upon the Smith and Wesson VS of the AR, they like it and buy it..
Perhaps for the same amount of money, they could have got a bit more for their money.. but it would not be a Smith and Wesson AND! (and this is important), For the use THEY have in mind, the barrel twist, yada yada, is not an issue at all..

All that said.. For the life of me, I can not understand why it is, that I find my self on a Smith and Wesson forum, with a section dedicated to the Smith and Wesson sport 2 and having to steady defend it against people who apparent see it as a ***, or other wise a "Truck gun" blah blah blah..
Man, cant the actual OWNERS of a Smith and Wesson M&P Sport II, Just ask questions and do whatever we want with OUR guns without getting lectured on how we could have done better to begin with?..

Obviously the question has been answered over and over.. Yet still, here we are..

WVSig · #**137** 02-17-2017, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaPes

Because some of us remember when S&W was crazy enough to install a Thompson Center, 1:8 5R progressive gain twist, Melonite barrel in the entry level gateway Sport V1.0. The rifle was also equipped with a very nice chopped A2 rear sight, not those plastic flip up abominations that are everywhere now.

You also have to remember that none of those changes were done to make the rifle "better". They were done to keep the price point down in a market that was getting more and more competitive. Kudos to S&W for recognizing the trend and adjusting.

Right now the basic AR15 market is a race to the bottom. I am seeing complete M4 style rifles like the Sport II from people like Anderson as low as $450. I think we will see $400 rifles by the end of the year.

LAA · #**138** 02-17-2017, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

...snipped for length...

Obviously the question has been answered over and over.. Yet still, here we are..

I totally agree!!! It's been answered over & over, & over......

LAA · #**139** 02-17-2017, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVSig

snipped

Right now the basic AR15 market is a race to the bottom. I am seeing complete M4 style rifles like the Sport II from people like Anderson as low as $450. I think we will see $400 rifles by the end of the year.

As a standard pricing point, I don't think we'll be seeing $400 AR-15's. When they are priced that low, it will just be clearance at a loss sales, for those getting out of the business. Seems I said that last month, also. Must be the same thread.

WVSig · #**140** 02-17-2017, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAA

As a standard pricing point, I don't think we'll be seeing $400 AR-15's. When they are priced that low, it will just be clearance at a loss sales, for those getting out of the business. Seems I said that last month, also. Must be the same thread.

Whittakers and Anderson are not getting out of the business, $399 for an OEM rifle.

e-Commerce

Prepper Gun shop is also selling an Anderson pretty close to $400. $439 + shipping and transfer.

Anderson Manufacturing AM15 5.56NATO AR-15 rifle 16'' barrel BLACK (1) 30rd mag OPTICS READY CARBINE ***This gun has to be oiled it is not RF85 treated*** 76874

Prices have dropped since last month. The Sport II is once again a $499 rifle. A few months ago it was $550-$600.

KY Gun Company is selling the Anderson for $429 with free shipping to your FFL so you should be out the door at $450.

These are sale prices but not loss leaders from a big box store or close outs. They are low priced offering because things are not moving at higher prices. IMHO

I would take the Sport II at $499 + shipping and transfer over the Anderson but the Anderson is not a bad rifle. DPMS, Insert Pin PSA guns are right around $400-$450, Diamonback, Del Ton etc.... are all getting down to the $450 range.

For a little more $$ I would take the S&W Sport II but bottom end of the price point for entry level basic carbines is dropping.

cyphertext · #**141** 02-17-2017, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

All that said.. For the life of me, I can not understand why it is, that I find my self on a Smith and Wesson forum, with a section dedicated to the Smith and Wesson sport 2 and having to steady defend it against people who apparent see it as a ***, or other wise a "Truck gun" blah blah blah..
Man, cant the actual OWNERS of a Smith and Wesson M&P Sport II, Just ask questions and do whatever we want with OUR guns without getting lectured on how we could have done better to begin with?..

Obviously the question has been answered over and over.. Yet still, here we are..

Well, first of all, this is not a section dedicated to the Sport 2. It is for M&P 15 rifles... they do make more than just the Sport, but it is hard to tell that from this board.

And that is kinda the point of the question... why buy a Sport 2 in a configuration that you don't want, when there are configurations available that match what you do want? Forget about other brands... look at S&W's product offerings. They have several free floats to choose from, at different price points.

I've seen folks on this board who have never fired a shot through their rifle, and they want to know how to make it look like some pic they found on the net.

And for the record, I own a Sport. The first model... no dust cover, no forward assist. When that was the entry model, so many people would buy them and then ask about adding those features.. again, buying a rifle that they really didn't want based on price alone.

WVSig · #**142** 02-17-2017, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Well, first of all, this is not a section dedicated to the Sport 2. It is for M&P 15 rifles... they do make more than just the Sport, but it is hard to tell that from this board.

And that is kinda the point of the question... why buy a Sport 2 in a configuration that you don't want, when there are configurations available that match what you do want? Forget about other brands... look at S&W's product offerings. They have several free floats to choose from, at different price points.

I've seen folks on this board who have never fired a shot through their rifle, and they want to know how to make it look like some pic they found on the net.

And for the record, I own a Sport. The first model... no dust cover, no forward assist. When that was the entry model, so many people would buy them and then ask about adding those features.. again, buying a rifle that they really didn't want based on price.

Exactly! If the Sport II is setup the way you want it then it is a great deal. For many shooters it is a great spec for their intended use and there is no need to buy more rifle or a different rifle. The Sport II is a perfect fit.

If you go back and read the OP it states:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVsig

I will go ahead and put on the flame suit now because I know what is coming but I have to ask. So many of the threads in this section of the forum are about how to modify a Sport II to replace the hand guard with a rail system, remove the A2 front post, swap the gas block, change out the stock, the grip etc...

Most of the time is seems to revolve around the A2 post and the handguards but if you have posted here long enough you know what I mean. So if all these people are going to rip the handguards off their basically NIB Sport II and remove the front A2 post, gas block and the handguards I have to ask.

Why are people buying the Sport II? Why not buy a optic ready carbine with a low profile gas block no handguards and simply install what they want. Once they have hacked it up the warranty is not going to be 100% in play. It doesn't save any money to pay for parts you are not going to use. Buying an OEM optic ready gun and installing the parts you want from day one makes economic and just plain common sense.

So educate me why are people still buying Sport IIs?

PS this is not directed at anyone specific. I own a Colt 6920 LEO which was the standard when I bought it and I modified it to suit my needs but when I did that there were a lot less options NIB.

The top answers seems to be price point and lack of knowledge and understanding of the platform and what they want the rifle to do and what they want the rifle to look like. Oddly enough most of the time its not about function because what trigger should I install so my Sport II shoots better is asked in about a 1/5 ratio vs how do I install a free floating rail and remove the A2 front sight post and gas block. The number one thing you can do to most factory mil-specish rifles like the Sport II that will actually improve its shootablity is the trigger. IMHO.

I am asking specifically why do people buy a budget gun in a configuration they don't want? It is not directed at people who know what the Sport II is and got it because it meets their needs. I am asking why do people buy this rifle and too often immediately start to swap parts sometimes even before hitting the range or after only a few hundred rounds down the pipe. It seems like 99% of the time its not about the function of the rifle its about how the rifle looks. They saw a gun in a magazine, on the web or on a forum and they want to make theirs look like that one.

The question isn't geared toward guys like Brian in Oregon who knew what he bought and he bought it because it meets his needs better than other guns. It is asking why is the novice buyer continuing to buy something they actually don't want.

In the end it seems like people are so personally attached to their gun of choice that any negative comment or discussion of the gun is treated like a personal affront. It is as if their ego is intertwined with this piece of steel, alum and plastic. I never understand why people take it so personally. This is not emotional question. It is not "personal" question in that one's answer does not define one's worth as a human being. It is a question which originally was intended to prompt another question which I will pose in another thread.

LAA · #**143** 02-17-2017, 01:19 PM

Quote:

I am asking specifically why do people buy a budget gun in a configuration they don't want? It is not directed at people who know what the Sport II is and got it because it meets their needs. I am asking why do people buy this rifle and too often immediately start to swap parts sometimes even before hitting the range or after only a few hundred rounds down the pipe. It seems like 99% of the time its not about the function of the rifle its about how the rifle looks. They saw a gun in a magazine, on the web or on a forum and they want to make theirs look like that one.

It's far too easy to figure out why. They buy the rifle without much, or no experience with AR15s. Once purchased, they start looking at internet forums, all the pics, etc. It only takes a week or two. Then they want to upgrade. I did the same thing myself. I think this is a very simple explanation.

WVSig · #**144** 02-17-2017, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAA

It's far too easy to figure out why. They buy the rifle without much, or no experience with AR15s. Once purchased, they start looking at internet forums, all the pics, etc. It only takes a week or two. Then they want to upgrade. I did the same thing myself. I think this is a very simple explanation.

Which begs the question is that the best most cost effective and efficient route to take when buying a S&W M&P AR15?

Pro2nd · #**145** 02-17-2017, 02:39 PM

Well there ya go, you see things one way, others see things a different way..

case closed.. Unless of course.. you can not stand the fact that others do not feel the same as you, that is..

I mean, this IS the Smith and Wesson Sport II section..
Which I do not believe is tittled the "Smith and Wesson sport II, you should not have purchased" section..

One would think they could discuss their Smith and Wesson sport II here in this section dedicated to it, without steady getting an ear full about it being a "bad purchase", "You could have done better", "You must be a newbie shooter" blah blah blah..

If someone wants to make radical changes to their Sport II, how about simply trying to post information on how to, or why NOT to etc Vs steady complain and tell them they don't know what they're doing, they should have purchased something else, boo hoo hoo..etc..
my god man..

Disabled1 · #**146** 02-17-2017, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaPes

Because some of us remember when S&W was crazy enough to install a Thompson Center, 1:8 5R progressive gain twist, Melonite barrel in the entry level gateway Sport V1.0. The rifle was also equipped with a very nice chopped A2 rear sight, not those plastic flip up abominations that are everywhere now.

Thank you JaPes, well said! I own one of these fine pieces of machinery! This S&W is frowned down upon by the "new age" owners of AR's. Just because there is no dust cover or forward assist, they think their "over rated" Sport II is so much better.
"Ew, my Sport II has a dust cover and forward assist......Ew, Ew....."

cyphertext · #**147** 02-17-2017, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

Well there ya go, you see things one way, others see things a different way..

case closed.. Unless of course.. you can not stand the fact that others do not feel the same as you, that is..

I mean, this IS the Smith and Wesson Sport II section..
Which I do not believe is tittled the "Smith and Wesson sport II, you should not have purchased" section..

One would think they could discuss their Smith and Wesson sport II here in this section dedicated to it, without steady getting an ear full about it being a "bad purchase", "You could have done better", "You must be a newbie shooter" blah blah blah..

If someone wants to make radical changes to their Sport II, how about simply trying to post information on how to, or why NOT to etc Vs steady complain and tell them they don't know what they're doing, they should have purchased something else, boo hoo hoo..etc..
my god man..

If you would take a deep breath, read what WVSig is saying, and not look at it as a bash against your rifle, you would see that he is actually trying to tell you why complete configuration changes may not be the best way to go to arrive at the rifle of your dreams... That there is something closer

He, and I, are not talking about simple hand guard swaps for the most part... although if you aren't married to S&W, the OEM rifles offer some nice features or upgrades.

But if you know going in that you want a free floated barrel, with a BCM 13" Keymod rail, a gun fighter medium charging handle, and a full auto type BCG... is the Sport really the best way to get there?

Fully configured, complete rifles are typically best purchased in a configuration that is closest to what you want.

This is the thought that WVSig is trying to convey.

ETA: I have not seen him bash the Sport II. He even says he would get one for a truck gun, that he is going to leave stock.

Pro2nd · #**148** 02-17-2017, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext

If you would take a deep breath, read what WVSig is saying,

Sorry, it is CLEARLY the other way around, the dude done went nuts and is now putting up polls etc..
I haven't a clue why he is so butt hurt over the Sport II, but he needs to learn that people are going to continue to buy the Sport II, and people are going to continue to want to change various parts etc.
If it bothers him THAT bad, he should just avoid this section, especially since he does not even own the riffle in which this section is dedicated two..

This section is not called the "the M&P Sport II STOCK configuration only"..

P.s.. I am, and will always be two steps ahead.. He, will realize this eventually..

I started out here posting some very basic questions etc, breaking the ice here as a new forum member etc, and I really do not much care a thinks he knows it all, taking every opportunity to slip in a smart *** comment, or dig..

Lets take a look at my post about how poorly some items are described, and my comments on reviews.. His reply to that was loaded.. to ME, that was obvious as can be.. Instead of suggesting sites that perhaps have better descriptions etc, he choose to ask me what sites I am searching, reason is, he was HOPING, I would reply with some rinky dink amazon or whatever, but it didn't happen.. So I had to come out and ask if HE knew of any sites with good descriptions, he then listed sites I already am, and have been familiar with, but it was the point.. Twp steps ahead, always..

Just saying if someone wants to basically TROLL the M&P section and pick me as a target (I can easily read between the lines on his comments, poll etc), well, put your set belts on boys!

cyphertext · #**149** 02-17-2017, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

Sorry, it is CLEARLY the other way around, the dude done went nuts and is now putting up polls etc..

Sorry, you are the one coming off looking like you "done went nuts"... I'll show you why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

I haven't a clue why he is so butt hurt over the Sport II, but he needs to learn that people are going to continue to buy the Sport II, and people are going to continue to want to change various parts etc.
If it bothers him THAT bad, he should just avoid this section, especially since he does not even own the riffle in which this section is dedicated two..

This section is not called the "the M&P Sport II STOCK configuration only"..

He isn't butt hurt. He is just simply asking why folks continue to purchase a rifle that is not the configuration that they want, when something equal to or better is available at the same cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

P.s.. I am, and will always be two steps ahead.. He, will realize this eventually..

I don't think so... let's keep reading....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

I started out here posting some very basic questions etc, breaking the ice here as a new forum member etc, and I really do not much care a thinks he knows it all, taking every opportunity to slip in a smart *** comment, or dig..

Usually, I am told that I am the smart donkey of the group...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2nd

Lets take a look at my post about how poorly some items are described, and my comments on reviews.. His reply to that was loaded.. to ME, that was obvious as can be.. Instead of suggesting sites that perhaps have better descriptions etc, he choose to ask me what sites I am searching, reason is, he was HOPING, I would reply with some rinky dink amazon or whatever, but it didn't happen.. So I had to come out and ask if HE knew of any sites with good descriptions, he then listed sites I already am, and have been familiar with, but it was the point.. Twp steps ahead, always..

Just saying if someone wants to basically TROLL the M&P section and pick me as a target (I can easily read between the lines on his comments, poll etc), well, put your set belts on boys!

Let's take a look at that post. WVSig didn't reply to you. Japes, another respected member of the forum, replied asking what sites you were looking at, and then replied with the familiar ones. I also wondered what you were looking at... never had the issue that you did. But glad you were two steps ahead!

Pro2nd · #**150** 02-17-2017, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Sorry, you are the one coming off looking like you "done went nuts"... I'll show you why.

He isn't butt hurt. He is just simply asking why folks continue to purchase a rifle that is not the configuration that they want, when something equal to or better is available at the same cost.

I don't think so... let's keep reading....

Usually, I am told that I am the smart donkey of the group...

Let's take a look at that post. WVSig didn't reply to you. Japes, another respected member of the forum, replied asking what sites you were looking at, and then replied with the familiar ones. I also wondered what you were looking at... never had the issue that you did. But glad you were two steps ahead!

I am a bit short on time right now, but when I get back later, I will educate you on reality..
sorry to are unable to spot a TROLL when you see one, and WVsig is most CERTAINLY a TROLL in the M&P Sport II section..
P.S.. Japes is pretty much the same thing in THIS section..