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Old 11-15-2016, 07:27 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Default Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?

I will go ahead and put on the flame suit now because I know what is coming but I have to ask. So many of the threads in this section of the forum are about how to modify a Sport II to replace the hand guard with a rail system, remove the A2 front post, swap the gas block, change out the stock, the grip etc...

Most of the time is seems to revolve around the A2 post and the handguards but if you have posted here long enough you know what I mean. So if all these people are going to rip the handguards off their basically NIB Sport II and remove the front A2 post, gas block and the handguards I have to ask.

Why are people buying the Sport II? Why not buy a optic ready carbine with a low profile gas block no handguards and simply install what they want. Once they have hacked it up the warranty is not going to be 100% in play. It doesn't save any money to pay for parts you are not going to use. Buying an OEM optic ready gun and installing the parts you want from day one makes economic and just plain common sense.

So educate me why are people still buying Sport IIs?

PS this is not directed at anyone specific. I own a Colt 6920 LEO which was the standard when I bought it and I modified it to suit my needs but when I did that there were a lot less options NIB.
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:53 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Because the Sport is cheap, so people pick it up due to the low cost of entry, then after a while they decide they want a handguard and it's easier to just modify the rifle you already have than sell it and buy a new "optic ready" rifle. And hey it was a cheap rifle so I'm not so worried about voiding the warranty as on a DD or LMT, right? Then it snowballs from there, because after all you already invested in a new handguard. Plus you can pay in small chunks, and you can buy whichever handguard you like, and it's fun to learn how to take an AR apart and fitting your own parts is satisfying above and beyond just buying a rifle already made how you want it. "This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine".

Mostly though, just because they can. Who doesn't like playing with adult Legos that go bang?

Last edited by arnoob; 11-15-2016 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 11-15-2016, 08:49 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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My Sport II is stock and has a set of scope rings and a scope on it and that's all that will be done to it. Everyone one is different and the AR platform is modular so it's easy for people to swap out parts to make it the way they want it. It's their money and they get the satisfaction of making it the way they want it.
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Old 11-15-2016, 08:53 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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You all are right. I bought a Sport and threw it under the bed. Just a great gun to have and the floor won't hurt it. I've got a mil-spec Colt SOCOM that I could trip out, but it already is. Same gun my son used in the Middle East when he was deployed. I just like the Sport because it is cheap, functional, and dependable. . .sure wouldn't pour any money into it.
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Old 11-15-2016, 08:58 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Did the same with my old generation Sport. The only thing that is still part of the Sport is the lower, barrel and buffer tube. What can I say I got bit by the AR Gods.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:10 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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So its cheap is the reason to buy but so are a lot of other rifles... which in the end would be cheaper. When the Sport II was $500 this was the same with better specs and if you are only going to change the furniture out later a better value.

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Old 11-15-2016, 09:13 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Low entry cost is the reason. Most folks get the Sport because it can be found at a low price and is a well recognized manufacturer. They don't think about paying a little more to get what they really want...

I am one of the few that has a mostly stock, first generation Sport. Removed the Magpul rear sight and added a Matech sight and a red dot. Still even have the crappy hand guards.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:15 PM
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For the same reason people buy new cars and trucks and then spent big $$$ on new wheels and tires and other excessories. I spelled it that way for a reason.

Besides, the low entry price allowing more money to be spent on options.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:20 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
For the same reason people buy new cars and trucks and then spent big $$$ on new wheels and tires and other excessories. I spelled it that way for a reason.

Besides, the low entry price allowing more money to be spent on options.
But you can buy a better cheaper easier base to build on than the Sport II so it doesn't make any sense to me.

The Aero I linked to is an example. Mid length Gas on a 16" rifle, 1/7 twist, low profile gas block etc....

You can get the handguard you want, stock you want, BUIS you want and still come out ahead of what you would pay to buy the stock Sport II and modify it. Plus you would still have your warranty vs a hacked up Sport II which S&W might or might not take care of after you have "worked" on it yourself.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:26 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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My Sport II is exactly the way it came out of the box. Haven't changed or added a single thing.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:29 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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well, if you want to go as simply as the "stripped" aero that you posted, then why not just start with stripped lower and go from there? That's what I did.

I'd say one reason is the S&W name and reputation as well as athe warranty.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:29 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Originally Posted by jeffpo View Post
My Sport II is exactly the way it came out of the box. Haven't changed or added a single thing.
Perfect that makes sense! Good purchase! I have on many occasions almost bought a Sport II for a truck gun. The A2 front post with the Magpul rear BUIS would fit that role perfectly! No modifications needed.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:30 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Originally Posted by speedyquad View Post
well, if you want to go as simply as the "stripped" aero that you posted, then why not just start with stripped lower and go from there? That's what I did.

I'd say one reason is the S&W name and reputation as well as athe warranty.
I agree I have gone that route myself. That makes a lot of sense but still not an argument to buy a $600 Sport II and tear it down and turn it into a $800+ rifle without a warranty since you altered it especially when there are $800 rifled out of the box with the configuration you want and a warranty.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:37 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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I had the same thoughts when I started my AR research and search. I knew I wanted an EOTech sight. I thought about buying a cheaper rifle and adding flip up front and rear sights for backup. Also then thought I might like to add a quad rail if I bought a gun that didn't have one. After finding the M&P 15T I ended my search because it had what I wanted on in without having to add to it.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:38 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Originally Posted by WVSig View Post
So its cheap is the reason to buy but so are a lot of other rifles... which in the end would be cheaper. When the Sport II was $500 this was the same with better specs and if you are only going to change the furniture out later a better value.

OEM MID-LENGTH 16" RIFLE | Brownells

Yeah but OEM rifles like that are for people that know what they want / are doing before they buy the rifle. The Sport is a nice complete rifle, from a well known and respected manufacturer, that feels like a safe and low cost entry into AR ownership.

It's only after you own it and shoot it for a while, and read about the all the configuration options online, that you start to realize you want to change things.

That Aero OEM to me is a great second rifle, and probably what people should buy if they already know they want to customize something to their liking, but you have to discover the unknown unknowns first.

I started with a Sport I, slowly customized it trying out different options, first a new stock then drop in handguard then free float until it there barely any original rifle left at all. So then I had a bunch of spare parts left over so figured I should use them to build my own rifle from scratch suplimenting with a BCM upper and other quality parts as I saw good prices in them until I had a second rifle this time with a 20" barrel and rifle length gas system, then I went the other way and registered an SBR and built an 8.5" 300BLK with a suppressor, and then started 80% lowers.

Then eventually just as I was running out of space in the safe I went full circle and bought a Colt 6720 and left it completely stock except swapping the BUIS for a carry handle iron sight because I decide that it was important to have at least one unfettled rifle with a pinned FSB for a raining day if I ever needed to do something serious.

I still love my original Sport'enstein though, it's a great shooting rifle and in my eyes it looks perfect, was it the best use of my money? Maybe not in rifle terms but heck I sure learnt a lot and had fun doing it, and to me that's a lot of what I love about the AR.

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Old 11-15-2016, 09:41 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Some people like to tinker or realize after the fact that their original purchase wasn't quite what they wanted.

As a some what relevant example, I bought a 2011 Ranger XLT 4.0 4X4 specifically knowing it didn't have everything I wanted but it was one heck of a price on a platform I could upgrade to what I really wanted. Especially since nothing out there had what I wanted anyway and would require upgrading anyway. And I like to tinker, so it was a good match and I haven't regretted the purchase.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:56 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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I've sometimes wondered the same thing. I also wonder what it would be like to have such and such a part on my Sport II. Then I remember what I did with my Mossberg 500. I learned my lesson with that. As such, I am extremely hesitant to go down that road with an AR, especially since ARs have what seems like an infinite list of options compared to the Mossberg. I've also learned with the Mossberg that I don't like having unused parts sit around. In the end I took my Mossberg pretty much back to stock, except I switched the plastic furniture for wood.

I also like the basic M4 look that the Sport II has. It's got nice, clean lines. I'm perfectly happy with the standard A2 style parts that the Sport II has, that everybody seems to switch out. I looked at more expensive rifles, but in the end the Sport II does everything they do for a lot less. Even though the Sport doesn't have a heatshield in the handguard, I haven't found that to be a problem. Now that it's cold out, if I shoot it, I like the added warmth.

If I ever get to the point where I want to start modifying the Sport, I'll just build another AR. That's something I've always wanted to do anyway. Until then, the standard Sport II satisfies all my AR desires.
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
sgtsandman:
Some people like to tinker or realize after the fact that their original purchase wasn't quite what they wanted.
That right there. Yep
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:46 PM
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Thought about getting an AR on and off for years. When I finally decided to get one, checked around and looked at several different ones at all price points. The Sport II was at the price I was willing to pay, and fit my needs.

Still have the Irons on it, even though it can wear a Red Dot or a 3x9 Optic. Been wearing bifocals for over 25 years. As far as mods, replaced the fore grip with a MOE-Sl. Fits my hand better, and gives a cleaner look. Recently replaced the butt stock, since we've got an Anti Gun State government, and I'm not about to register it as an "assault weapon". Still deciding on the rest so I don't have to register.
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:47 PM
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I bought a sport II to see if I liked the AR platform. Now that I have one, and decided I like the AR's, I am in the process of building a custom AR with all the bells and whistles that I like on an AR. I get your post, and I am in agreement with you, and entry level rifle is just that. Leave it alone, and shoot it.
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Old 11-15-2016, 11:45 PM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Quote:
WVSig wrote:
So educate me why are people still buying Sport IIs?
I'll join you in the classroom. I have two Sport IIs and they are just as stock, standard as the day I bought them.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSig View Post
So its cheap is the reason to buy but so are a lot of other rifles... which in the end would be cheaper. When the Sport II was $500 this was the same with better specs and if you are only going to change the furniture out later a better value.

OEM MID-LENGTH 16" RIFLE | Brownells

This is a relatively new idea. To ship a rifle without handguard or stock. Don't know who thought it up first but I started seeing Colts this way in gun stores about 6 months ago or so

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Old 11-16-2016, 12:50 AM
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I'll tell you why I bought a Sport II and then modified the hell out of it. I was new to the AR platform, and although there was a lot of conversation on these forums about brands that to me (NOOB), were unknown! I had never heard of Daniel Design, Aero, Anderson, Palmetto, Radical, BCM and others, but I had heard of Smith & Wesson and Colt. I had S&W revolvers and handguns, and the Sport was priced right for me, about 40% cheaper than the Colt, with a warranty and I knew in my heart, it would work. I wasn't sure of the other unknown brands.

So I bought the Sport, and I love it. Sure I have put a lot of money into it, but it's been fun, and I knew I still had a reputable brand firearm!

Now, many months later I know there are other options, but honestly when I was new, I didn't trust them.

So I have my S&W, I'm happy and I feel like it is original to me!

Now I'm playing with a S&W M&P 15-22. I already have a "tactical" Ruger 10/22. but I always liked the design of the S&W.

And yes, I'm pouring money into it too. But, I'm having a blast doing it!

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Old 11-16-2016, 08:11 AM
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Interesting thread. Every option known to man is available for AR platforms and obviously the consumers spend a lot. Doesn't have to make sense if people like it and are willing to pay to play and are having fun with what they buy. Enjoy it in the form you prefer!
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Old 11-16-2016, 09:41 AM
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Most of the time is seems to revolve around the A2 post and the handguards

It's true that there's a ton of postings from folks seeking information about concerns with the A2 front sight on their Sport. They've come to the right place . That said, I'm not sure that of all the Sports S&W sells more than a small fraction don't still retain the front sight. Satisfied buyers.

In order for something like the Aero Precision to be attractive a buyer would first need to know that they could not find precisely what they wanted already configured and understand the costs involved and possess the know-how. That's a fairly sophisticated buyer in terms of a specific firearms purchase. I certainly wasn't when I purchased my first AR.

So if the question was -- Why do people who know they want to remove and A2 front sight buy a rifle with an A2 front sight, I'd say that's an excellent question but I doubt that's the overriding scheme of things. My guess is that a lot of folks who end up replacing the A2 front sight initially recognized the S&W brand name, found the price and warranty attractive then clicked the buy button and let the learning curve begin.
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:01 AM
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My guess is that a lot of folks who end up replacing the A2 front sight initially recognized the S&W brand name, found the price and warranty attractive then clicked the buy button and let the learning curve begin.
Agree 100%. You don't know what you don't know when you first start out with an AR. Attractive price from a brand name manufacturer make the Sport the perfect gateway rifle.
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:51 AM
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Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them? Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil
So if the question was -- Why do people who know they want to remove and A2 front sight buy a rifle with an A2 front sight, I'd say that's an excellent question but I doubt that's the overriding scheme of things. My guess is that a lot of folks who end up replacing the A2 front sight initially recognized the S&W brand name, found the price and warranty attractive then clicked the buy button and let the learning curve begin.
I understand the learning curve, name recognition and price point being the motivation behind many of the people purchasing the Sport II. Really I get it but I see so many people who are making the modifications after so few rounds down the pipe. Guns that have not even really been broken in.

It seems like, and maybe I am wrong, the owners start the modification process before then even really understand why they are doing them or what they want to achieve by doing them. Maybe its just my impression. So many people go don't seem to really know what they are trying to accomplish by changing the rifle. It seems like most of the time they are looking to make a cosmetic change vs a real change in the functionality of the rifle.

If they did not like the cosmetics of the rifle right out of the box why did they choose this rifle? When I am at the range it seems like the people shooting their AR15 don't shoot modified AR15s any better than a basic setup like a Sport II. Function and use does not seem to be driving configuration and gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil
In order for something like the Aero Precision to be attractive a buyer would first need to know that they could not find precisely what they wanted already configured and understand the costs involved and possess the know-how. That's a fairly sophisticated buyer in terms of a specific firearms purchase. I certainly wasn't when I purchased my first AR.
This maybe true that the Aero OEM rifle and others of the same nature have more appeal to a knowledgeable buyer but it doesn't always mean it is not a new buyer. The beauty of the OEM style rifles is that everything but the handguard is super easy to install or is already installed on the rifle. You don't need a ton of tools. I mean how hard is it to put stock on a buffer tube? Maybe I just do more research than the avg.

The other option that is out there that is often cheaper than the Sport II is to simply buy a complete lower and a complete upper and pin them together. You can get a lot more rifle and have a lot more flexibility in its setup right out of the box.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:04 PM
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All my upgrades are cosmetic in nature, so nothing is voided with the warranty..

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Old 11-16-2016, 12:28 PM
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When I purchased my first AR back in the olden days there weren't a lot of choices or aftermarket stuff. Fairly easy choice at the gun store back then... an A2 or the A2 . Today, there's a dizzying array of choices both OEM and aftermarket.

I think the below is kinda how it works for a lot of first time AR buyers.

Newbie is starring at 100 different ARs on the rack at Sportsmans Warehouse ranging in price from $500 to $2,500. Eyes glazed over, he turns his head and sees a half dozen racks with a zillion accessories. Into full overload at this point, the sales guy says here's a popular Smith & Wesson Sport that we sell for $550. The newbie breathes a sigh of relief and says I'll take it and figure everything else out later.

I'm pretty sure that newbie would be me if I was buying my first AR today.

As far as newbies buying accessories before they shoot much... sure. Newbie gets the rifle, takes it to the range and has a blast. Reads a couple AR mags and joins an AR forum... get's excited and starts clicking the buy button at our favorite AR candy stores... it's all good.

Of course cosmetics and looks are important to gun owners of all stripes.... ARs to revolvers.

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Old 11-16-2016, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by WVSig View Post
It seems like, and maybe I am wrong, the owners start the modification process before then even really understand why they are doing them or what they want to achieve by doing them. Maybe its just my impression. So many people go don't seem to really know what they are trying to accomplish by changing the rifle. It seems like most of the time they are looking to make a cosmetic change vs a real change in the functionality of the rifle.

.
No you're not wrong. Majority of the people buy accessories before/right at the time/right after the rifle comes in. They change a bunch of stuff and go to the range with 100 rounds or less.

Often times these accessories are strictly visual. Something that looks mean and aggressive. Make a muzzle device that does nothing except look good and you'll sell far more than if you made a plane looking one that actually works

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Old 11-16-2016, 01:31 PM
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No you're not wrong. Majority of the people buy accessories before/right at the time/right after the rifle comes in. They change a bunch of stuff and go to the range with 100 rounds or less.

Often times these accessories are strictly visual. Something that looks mean and aggressive. Make a muzzle device that does nothing except look good and you'll sell far more than if you made a plane looking one that actually works

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For me it's not how good looking the muzzle device is, it's how obnoxiously loud it is. I want the guy at the range next to me to feel like he's getting slapped in the face every time I shoot, then I know I've got my money's worth from my compensator.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:49 PM
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I bought my Sport as an AR noob, so I didn't know better. It was inexpensive, it was S&W made and it was how I wanted to enter the AR world. Even today my Sport only has a drop in rail change which I am soon converting back to stock.

After that first rifle, I soon learned it was cheaper, easier and way more fulfilling to just assemble what I want, that's all I do now. I'll probably never own another non-free floated rifle beside the Sport.
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Old 11-16-2016, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
No you're not wrong. Majority of the people buy accessories before/right at the time/right after the rifle comes in. They change a bunch of stuff and go to the range with 100 rounds or less.

Often times these accessories are strictly visual. Something that looks mean and aggressive. Make a muzzle device that does nothing except look good and you'll sell far more than if you made a plane looking one that actually works

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For me the real tell on this one is that the best $$$ spent in improving a lower end Milspec rifle is to change out the trigger. Even moving to a ALG Quality Milspec trigger or BCM PNT in the $60 range will improve the shootabilty and accuracy of a Sport II more than a free floated rail or removing the A2 post to make for a cleaner sight picture for an optic. It is also one of the easiest modification you can make. If you have a ball peen hammer, screw driver, Youtube and a pin punch you can do it. Yet so few people talk about changing out the trigger.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:08 PM
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You Got me. I buy Colt rifles, and they need no modification. My latest is a Colt LE 6940. Everything about it is perfect, and mil-spec.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:11 PM
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What the heck do you use a screwdriver for when changing a trigger? Personally I don't think you need a hammer or even a punch either really, but I guess they might make it slightly easier if you have weak fingers.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:14 PM
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What the heck do you use a screwdriver for when changing a trigger? Personally I don't think you need a hammer or even a punch either really, but I guess they might make it slightly easier if you have weak fingers.
You might need to remove the grip depending on the type of trigger you are installing.

The punch and hammer make is much faster. I swapped two triggers today. Installed LaRue MBT-2s and a BCM PNT. The PNT was moved from one rifle to another.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:35 PM
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One thing I see missing in all the posts, is what's available in the local shops. My Sport II is my first AR. When shopping for mine, I kept seeing the same selection. Everybody had Sport II's and DPMS. Not everybody had Colts, DD's and the like. S&W I knew, DPMS didn't. So in my case the choice was easy. Go with the SportII and spend the rest on ammo.
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Old 11-16-2016, 06:24 PM
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One thing I see missing in all the posts, is what's available in the local shops. My Sport II is my first AR. When shopping for mine, I kept seeing the same selection. Everybody had Sport II's and DPMS. Not everybody had Colts, DD's and the like. S&W I knew, DPMS didn't. So in my case the choice was easy. Go with the SportII and spend the rest on ammo.
I totally understand that. Putting your hands on something before buying it is always the best option but honestly I buy stuff sight unseen all the time these days, most of it used. If you know what to look for your risk is minimal.
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Old 11-16-2016, 06:32 PM
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Skimming the thread and counting back, I realize my experience with the platform goes back almost 50 years. Gads, that's frightening. Most of that experience has been with whatever was issued, as issued in the environment at hand and covers a number of brands. Many of which I would not accept again as a gift.

That said, I'm somewhat amused/bemused by the wealth of mis-information about the platform and the variety of options. I'll admit my usage has never been as a range toy and my viewpoint is skewed by that.

I find the fixation on 1-7 twist misplaced unless you're shooting very heavy bullets. Also the angst about the A2 sight base. Pinned on, it's most reliable and always available for use as needed.

But, like the meg-buck wheels on your ride, it's your property, do with it what you want. But at least your ride has to pass a state safety inspection in most places. Oh, and please spare us from spiels about what you MUST have on your AR or you ain't .....I think you know.

Last edited by WR Moore; 11-16-2016 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 11-16-2016, 06:35 PM
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Skimming the thread and counting back, I realize my experience with the platform goes back almost 50 years. Gads, that's frightening. Most of that experience has been with whatever was issued, as issued in the environment at hand and covers a number of brands. Many of which I would not accept again as a gift.

That said, I'm somewhat amused/bemused by the wealth of mis-information about the platform and the variety of options. I'll admit my usage has never been as a range toy and my viewpoint is skewed by that.

I find the fixation on 1-7 twist misplaced unless you're shooting very heavy bullets. Also the angst about the A2 sight base. Pinned on, it's most reliable and always available for use as needed.

But, like the meg-buck wheels on your ride, it's your property, do with it what you want. But at least your ride has to pass a state safety inspection in most places.
I think you are spot on in many ways. People unnecessarily mod a perfect fictional Sport II. There are reasons to like the 1/7 but most people do not shoot in a manner that makes difference.

As to the A2 post well it might be a generational thing. LOL
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Old 11-17-2016, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KSDeputy View Post
You Got me. I buy Colt rifles, and they need no modification. My latest is a Colt LE 6940. Everything about it is perfect, and mil-spec.
Mine was not perfect. My milspec Colt trigger was absolutely horrible. I put in a RRA NM trigger and it's light years better.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:12 AM
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Because it's fun.
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:29 AM
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This is exactly why I bought a 15T. Got what I wanted the first time rather than dump all that money into mods. Don't get me wrong. I like to tinker with stuff too, but I'd rather shoot my AR and spend money modifying my Mausers or 1903.
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Old 11-18-2016, 03:48 PM
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My first AR was a RRA Elite CAR Mid-length as the mid length gas system ARs are just smoother and suffer less bolt & extractor issues than the carbine length sytems do. Great rifle and like many I went through stages with it where I added all sorts of stuff and then later decided it was way too heavy and so I went for light weight, removing most of the junk I added.

In addition to removing most stuff, I shipped the HBAR to ADCO and asked Steve to reprofile it to a light weight (including a smaller gas block), shorten it to 14.7", give it a target crown, and then weld on an A2 FH to make it legal. Then I replaced the furniture with Magpul CTR and MOE and loved it's light weight and compact style.



When my son decided he wanted to 'liberate' it for his own use, I went looking for a replacement mid-length, hopefully something I didn't have to go through all the mods to get it like I wanted. The M&P15 Sport was a carbine gas system and needed all of the changes I didn't want to go through again.

Then I found the M&P15 MOE Mid Magpul and it was set up almost exactly the way my RRA ended up. Currently available as the M&P15 MOE Mid, it's set up and all ready to go. Yes, it costs more, but my M&P15 MOE Mid Magpul was exactly like I wanted. The only mod I've made to it was to simply replace swapping S&Ws long FH for an A2 FH. Stock it makes a great light weight carbine and the mid-length gas system makes for smooth operation as well as increasing the sight radius by 2". Something to consider.



Shown here stock before I swapped out the FH. Later, I also added a custom made pistol grip like the one on my RRA above. Even today, some 3 yrs later, it's still as shown, still working great, reliable as heck, and still a favorite light weight AR.

Now that 'Hildabeast' is politically DOA, there likely won't be a frantic rush to buy ARs next year so the prices will likely stay low. My recommendation is to save up so you can get a model that's as close to what you really want so that you have something that starts out ready to go.
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Old 11-18-2016, 04:43 PM
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I guess I fall into the OP's main category as I took a new bone stock II and immediately added a new handrail, Eotech, compensator and cerakoted it tungsten. I wanted to customize mine so it looked a little different than the plain black version.

I've modded all my mustangs too so it must just be in my blood. I can't leave anything alone.
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Old 11-18-2016, 06:29 PM
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2 M&P 15's

1l) added flat dark earth Magpul M-Lock furniture and pmags, as well as a Nikon P223 scope. (Range and longer distance shooter).

2) went with black Magpul M-Lock furniture, Primary Arms red dot sight and streamlight polytac light on M Lock cantilever mount. (Close quarters and home defense)

I keep the stock furniture it came with in a box so if it ever has to go back to Smith &Wesson on warranty, it takes about 10 to 15 minutes to return it to stock form.

We dont have a gander mountain, Cabellas is like 150 miles away, and local shops have limited inventory.

Some people may be overwhelmed with parts and suggestions when it comes to building an ar and just prefer to start with a complete, ready to shoot weapon. And modify it to their liking.

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Old 11-18-2016, 08:31 PM
Brian in Oregon Brian in Oregon is offline
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So its cheap is the reason to buy but so are a lot of other rifles... which in the end would be cheaper. When the Sport II was $500 this was the same with better specs and if you are only going to change the furniture out later a better value.

OEM MID-LENGTH 16" RIFLE | Brownells

Compare the specs. The Sport II has a 1:9" twist, which is as fast as I want to go. The gun you linked to has a 1:7", which I did not want.

For others asking why not the M&P-15 Optics Ready, it has an M4 profile barrel, which I do not want. I wanted the barrel profile on the Sport II.

And, while the Optics Ready carbine has a railed gas block, it lacks a folding rear sight. I don't see where this is worth the price difference, which exceeds what a railed gas block costs, and the gap is even more if you add the price of a folding rear sight, which I did want.

I did not want the free floating forend models either. They're even more money.

And, I wanted CAR length forend furniture, not mid-length.

The replacement furniture does cost money, but in my case I swapped with another gun.

Eventually a railed block with a folding sight or a combo block/folding sight will replace the A2 sight. But again, from a cost standpoint, it's still cheaper than getting the Optics Ready model. And the one linked to above does not have a railed block, just a smooth low profile.

So I think even when modifying it, you still get a lot of bang for your buck with a Sport II.


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Old 11-18-2016, 08:49 PM
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Why are people buying the Sport II?
A 15-Sport or any other sub $600 AR-15 is akin to a gateway drug. It's usually someone's first AR-15. The only way you discover your preferences is via experience. The only way you get experience is through ownership and trying things out. My 15-Sport v1.0 (when I owned one) went from a nice, lightweight, keep-it-simple-stupid, $550 AR-15 to a decked out pig:




When I was new, I was counseled by those with experience to save up and buy a factory complete rifle decked out with as much of the things I wanted instead of doing it piecemeal. I bought a 15-Sport. I thought, "This is it. I own an AR-15. Don't need to do anything to it". Then everyone was doing Magpul furniture. The handguard isn't that expensive. The stock isn't that expensive...

Total up all of the $$$ I spent on the parts pictured and the parts that ended up in my spare parts box, I should have just bought a Daniel Defense Mk4 A1 and had everything I wanted right out of the box. BUT... I was new. I had no idea what was what. At some point I was so far in the $$$ hole modifying the 15-Sport that I actively denied how much I spent on "upgrades". I'd gone too far to stop.

I try to tell the new guys to be patient. Save up. Buy a rifle equipped and configured from the factory with as many of the things you want. Don't fall into the same trap I did. Hypocritical of me, but I still do it.

You know how my infatuation with the AR-15 ended? When I finally realized that no matter what part or adjustment I make to an AR-15 I really don't interface with one well. I stopped. I sold my AR-15's. I had gained enough experience to know my preferences, and bought a semi-auto clone of a military issue rifle other than an AR-15. I found what is right for me.

So it's chicken or the egg.
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:45 PM
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A 15-Sport or any other sub $600 AR-15 is akin to a gateway drug. It's usually someone's first AR-15...
In my case it simply filled a gap in the collection.
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:53 PM
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Compare the specs. The Sport II has a 1:9" twist, which is as fast as I want to go. The gun you linked to has a 1:7", which I did not want.

For others asking why not the M&P-15 Optics Ready, it has an M4 profile barrel, which I do not want. I wanted the barrel profile on the Sport II.

And, while the Optics Ready carbine has a railed gas block, it lacks a folding rear sight. I don't see where this is worth the price difference, which exceeds what a railed gas block costs, and the gap is even more if you add the price of a folding rear sight, which I did want.

I did not want the free floating forend models either. They're even more money.

And, I wanted CAR length forend furniture, not mid-length.

The replacement furniture does cost money, but in my case I swapped with another gun.

Eventually a railed block with a folding sight or a combo block/folding sight will replace the A2 sight. But again, from a cost standpoint, it's still cheaper than getting the Optics Ready model. And the one linked to above does not have a railed block, just a smooth low profile.

So I think even when modifying it, you still get a lot of bang for your buck with a Sport II.

I guess I just don't see the value when you consider that the Sport II has moved up to $620-$650 OTD.

I used that Aero as an example of what I consider a better alternative but if it does not meet your spec I understand that. If you have a very narrowly defined spec isn't it better just to build exactly what you want from the ground up or simply buy a complete lower and then complete upper made to your desired spec.

If you are capable of swapping out all of those parts you are more than capable of building it from the ground up so why start with a $620+ complete rifle? There is nothing magical about the parts used by S&W that makes them better then say PSA.

You see value I guess I don't. When Sport IIs were $500 + transfer maybe but not at $620+ transfer.
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