Just bought a Sport II and was wondering what kind of accuracy I can expect from it? The only mods I plan at this time is a improved trigger and a free floated handguard and barrel and some kind of scope, what are Youall getting.

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Sounds like your on the right track to making a more accurate rifle. All the right moves other than your personal touch features like hand grips, butt stock and such. But as we all know the furniture list never ends......haha
Good luck and have fun but always be safe!!

What kind of accuracy do you expect? What are you shooting now?
The SWaMPy 15s are known for their triggers and accuracy.
Instead of turning the carbine into something else, why not just get a long barreled upper with the features you want? Cross reference brownells.com or palmettostatearmory.com for example.

Geoff
Who notes most ARs can shoot a single hole group at 25 yard zero targets if the gun likes the ammo.

Like most carbines, you will probably see between 2 and 4 MOA.

It will shoot better than you can

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Still carrying my S&W 642

Ammo that your gun likes can make all the difference. I try as many as I can and then decide.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Well I haven't much of a chance to do much shouting yet, just to check function. I know it is not going to come close to my Remington 700 that shoots sub 1/2 MOA with it's pet hand load but I am hope I can closer to 1moa., but again it's an entry-level AR.
Thanks for your replies.


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When i put my Nikon p-223 scope on and sighted in, I got sub 2 moa at 100 yards on outdoor range in the cold weather using american eagle 5.56 55 grain. Probably could have improved upon that with a good shooting rest and warmer weather to spend time tuning.

Out of the box with Nato 5.56 It probably out shoot you.
Remember it's a Carbine Combat Rifle....

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US Army 71-73 USMC 75-78

With good handloads, 1 moa is doable especially if you get away from the fmj's. And you may find that you have a little more flexibility as to bullet/powder combo then you do with the 700.

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Peace was my Profession

Close combat at that--100yds. or less. If you want accuracy, don't buy a carbine. Buy a long gun. Carbines are for putting a lot of lead down range and that's about it.

In my defense, some have stretched it to 300yds. and can hit the side of a barn.

How cheap/expensive are you going to go on ammo? The firearm is just one part of the equation. Quality parts matter as well as quality ammo.... if your going for accuracy. I only bought much my rifles to sight in, afterwards it's all off hand

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My experience with Colt, Bushmaster, and Rock River carbines is that with a scope, good rest, free floated handguard, decent trigger, and quality ammo (usually not mil surplus), you should do considerably better than 2 to 4 inches at 100 yards. My carbines, so equipped and loaded are more like the 1 1/2 inch range.

Larry

I buy the cheap ammo for the grandkids can shoot milk jugs, I've been reloading for about 20 years so I understand the importance of good components BTW MY 700 is in 223 so the learning curve should be short I mainly bought the AR because my Wife wanted one, I have always been a bolt Guy but after I started shooting it and it is like a adult Legos, should be fun playing with it, and if you knew me I won't be able to leave it stock.

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Dont under estimate the accuracy potential of a 16" barrel.
With the right loads, a good trigger, a good barrel and a decent scope
MOA and even sub MOA is possible.
Jim

Well just was on Rainier's Web site and they have barrels with a Wydle chamber they guarantee moa or sub-moa with match ammo, Very Interesting.

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With a good trigger, free floated barrel, a good scope, a competent shooter, and Black Hills 52gr match grade ammo, you should easily get less than 1.5" groups at 100 yards. If you can't, you need a new barrel.

With cheap mil-spec ammo the same rifle will be 2 inches at best.

I mounted a BUSHENELL AR-223 scope on my sport II. I am getting 1 MOA using HORNADY VMAX AMMO. I did do a break in by firing 1x10, 2x10, 3x5, & 5x5, cleaning after each shot string. Really tedious but seems to have made a difference.

Jim is correct.

I guarantee you that the barrel voodoo made no difference, especially with a nitrated barrel.

Just something to consider before any modifications... it appears that many never shoot their unmodified, out-of-the box ARs enough to find out what the guns are capable of in terms of accuracy. However, a scope is pretty much mandatory for 100 yard bench rest accuracy testing unless you have the perfect vision offered by young eyes. The scope needn't have high magnification.

I've been shooting a Colt Expanse and a Colt 6920. Never fired an S&W, but I will assume they generally shoot fairly well, new and unmodified, other than the addition of scope sights. The Colts will group under 1 1/2" on a regular basis and sometimes well under an inch with select handloads and some factory match ammo. Not being able to shoot small groups consistently with good ammunition is my fault.

While these guns shoot well as is, it takes a decent amount of shooting to get used to things, including shooting from a bench rest and the almost six-pound trigger. To hurriedly change out handguards, triggers, etc. and installing a high-magnification scope without knowing a gun's capability might be an unnecessary and expensive shortchanging.

Too many of us subconsciously reason that a light trigger and lots of scope will make up for personal shortcomings: a lack of shooting skill and poor bench technique. That never happens.

The quality of the ammo makes a big difference for group size. Groups will generally open up with cheap ammo and military ammo. Groups generally shrink with premium ammo.

Brian- That's exactly right, but I found good handloads will at least equal and usually exceed the accuracy level of Hornady, Winchester and Federal match ammo. I tried six, maybe eight commercial bulk ammos, 55-62 grs. Complete waste of money for anyone with a real interest in accuracy.

Anyone who has developed accurate handloads using the Sierra 65 GK and 69 MK will be disappointed in most anything else. I've had little experience with the heavier bullets. They may also shoot well.

I know this post is about the Sport II. I have a Sport I. I'm presuming the Sport II changes don't make significant difference in accuracy.

I've gotten 1-1.5 MOA using FMJs. And just under 1 MOA using match bullets.

Mine isn't totally stock: Nikon P-223 3-9x scope and Geissele SSA-E trigger.

OR

The Sport II made significant changes in the barrel over the Sport I. In theory the Sport I has a superior barrel, but from some threads I searched this is debatable from range results. I think the most significant difference is the change in twist from 1:8" to 1:9". The Sport II barrel favors the lighter bullets (40gr to 55gr with 75gr being about the max it can stabilize) while the original Sport could stabilize heavier bullets (up to 90 grains). In theory the Sport II should be more accurate with 40 to 55 gr bullets as faster twists over stabilize bullets, causing them to yaw the nose up at long range. On the other hand those shooting at these longer ranges will probably be using heavier bullets anyway, 62 gr and up. Personally 1:9" is the max twist I use as I've settled on 55 grainers for nearly all my 223/5.56 shooting. My non-AR15s in 223 are 1:12".

Here's a thread with debate on the differences:

MP 15 Sport barrel change from 1/8 5r to 1/9 6 lands and grooves. Pro's & Cons'. Any

I'd forgotten about the twist change. The move from 1:8 to 1:9 happened in the Sport I - prior to the Sport II, right?

It's tough for me to double check - but I'm almost positive my Sport I is a 1:9. So I got one of the latter ones. (I've had it for......3 years? I don't recall precisely.)

OR

I don't know if the Sport I changed twist or not. I did find a couple of old reviews that claimed it had gain twist rifling, but nothing to substantiate that. Maybe they were confused what 5R rifling is. I would think S&W would make a big selling point of that.

The photos I just dropped in the pics thread are from 2-19-17 which I was shooting Federal 69 grain match grade and hitting steel at 550 yards. 55 grains were hitting steel out to 400 yards and light breeze. That was the best I got from those weights but as stated earlier, its a carbine not a long gun and Im very happy with what I can get out of my Sport 2!

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nutnfancy had good things to say about its accuracy, but I've heard S&W are making the barrel to a different spec now ???

Those things do help but ONLY if you have put in the practice it takes to master shooting. People go on about trigger pull as if it was the key to shooting. Trigger pull is the key to shooting. Not the trigger itself. I've seen plenty of great shooting with bad triggers. If they are good enough to break at a consistent point, and nearly all triggers are, then all it takes is practice to shoot a gun like that well.

I'd much rather have a good trigger. Don't get me wrong. But the principles of shooting are simple. If you can pull the trigger consistently you can shoot well. And that takes practice more than anything. It takes less practice with a good trigger but it still takes practice.

We never had a gun with a decent trigger when I was growing up. We knew they existed and we even saw one occasionally. But they weren't our guns. Ours were the 6 lb. trigger kind. Yet we managed to learn to keep a pop can in the air with a .22 for 7 shots or more. We learned how to hit running squirrels in the eye. And we learned how to shoot stems in two so that nuts fell from trees. Shooting was almost a religion in my family. We had a trap range in our back yard but we didn't have a phone or running water. We had a spring where we got our water then carried it home. But dad bought a trap machine, which no one else had in 100 mile radius from where we lived, and people came from far and wide to shoot at our house. Dad gave us BB guns at 5 and we were shooting the real thing at 7. Shotguns at first because of the shorter range. By the time I got to the point I could shoot a shotgun I had already learned that trigger pull was important. I learned that on my BB gun.

Practice makes a shooter. Not equipment.

Seriously?

My Sport II with a 1-4 power scope shoots less than one inch groups at 50 yards from a rest. The scope is the only change I made to the rifle and I like the trigger just the way it is.

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USAF Retired/VN Vet

Not being critical; 50 yards is a good place to start, but even a mediocre gun with mediocre ammo should shoot well at that distance. Several 100 yard, five-shot groups will tell you a lot more.

I can not see a target at 100 yards and do not like walking that far. I appreciate your trying to be of assistance.

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USAF Retired/VN Vet

I don't like walking that far either. And I'm too cheap for a spotting scope. But its worth doing from time to time just to see.

One would hope so.

Honestly shooting a rifle at 50 yards with a 1X4 scope is not a test of accuracy. Unless you are shooting at 100+ your groups are not telling you much about how accurate you or your gun is. Especially if you are shooting off a bench.

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Use should dictate gear!

I'd go as far as saying that at 100yds a 4X scope isn't that telling of the guns potential either. At 4x, you don't have the greatest magnification from that distance, at least I don't. 12-18X and you can lock in on a very small target area. And as far as all that jazz about a true rifleman doesn't need a lightweight trigger to be accurate, well, thats a load of garbage too in a way. You don't see those benchrest guys jacking around with 7lb stock levers either. Yeah, a good shooter can hit with a heavy trigger, but he can probably hit better with a lighter pull as well. There is no hit to be made on someone for lightening up a trigger pull. I read that macho B.S. on forums all the time. Yeah, your dad can whip my dad and all. Whatever. (this last bit is not in response to posts above me, just a rant for whatever reason. I evidently got myself off on a tangent)

I have not been able to take mine out to a 100 yard range but I just dropped in a Velocity 3.0 trigger(the trigger is really 3.5lb) but almost as crisp as a Geissele SSE E. I also put a vortex Strike eagle so probably will get some great groups if I can do my job.

Take the word of a guy with a bad back that has trouble walking 50 feet. ATV - that's how I get to the bottom of the small hill where I set up my targets. I know it isn't practical at a range. That's the advantages of country living I guess.

I agree less than 100yds is not a true test of accuracy, but I don't take issue with those that shoot at 25 or 50 yds. To me, I know the difference and take it for what it's worth.

Another thing on accuracy, is how good is the bullet and is it fired in a barrel that has the proper twist for the length of the bullet. There is a couple of posts in the thread referencing a Sport II for a friend that touch on accuracy and bullets. Pictures are shown of targets shot with two different 75gr bullets.Both of those bullets are over 1 inch long. That's why they're not stable. Weight has nothing to do with it.
JBM - Bullet Length List

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Peace was my Profession

Agree... we group by weight, as typically the longer projectile will be heavier... unless they are made of a different material, such as copper vs. lead. An all copper round at 55 gr is going to be longer than a lead core round at 55 gr.

I shot my M&P15 outdoors today for the first time, up to 100 yards. Previously I had only shot at 25 yards indoors. I use a Bushnell TRS25 red dot and no magnification and was easily able to hit a 6 inch target at 100 yards, and it was crazy windy today (50 mph gusts). Happy enough with that should I ever need to use it in a real life situation. The gun is plenty accurate. Next time I'll keep my targets and get pics, hopefully it'll be less windy.

You need a good eye, steady constant finger on the trigger and practice practice practice to make a good shooter on just about any weapon. It has more to do with the person shooting, NOT what they are shooting.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psiujnkb30.jpg

S&W M&P 15 Sport II Model# 10202, 1:9 twist, Rock River Arms National Match 2-Stage Trigger, Vortex 3x12x56 Hog Hunter Scope With lighted center dot, MagPul Grip & Handguard, XLR100 Kill Light and Bipod. The M&P 15 Sport II is reasonably priced on the lower end of AR-15 prices. it has some features i really like, 1:9 twist, No stupid M4 grenade launcher cut out, trigger opening big enough for gloves, good factory trigger and comes with a rear sight that a lot of guns don't come with. I have tried many differant brands of ammo. the Fiocchi 50gn V-max has proven to be the most consistantly accurate ammo for me, 1/2 to 3/4 moa at 100 yrd in an indoor range. a few other brands will get around 1-1.5 moa, but most the average cheap brands will be in the 2-5 moa. Shooting those brands is a total waste of money. I don't just look for a bullet to go bang - i expect it to hit where i'm aiming. The Fiocchi 50gn V-max is reasonably priced at around 40 cents a round.. I think good shooting skills and good ammo are more important than the gun its self, that said the M&P 15 is an excellant Rifle.

I won't say i am the most accurate shooter with the Sport 2, i am far better with a scoped 308 bolt action rifle. But i was at the range shooting at 100 yards sighting in my 308 and pulled out my new sport 2 with iron sights. I was hitting the target at 100 yards with iron sights and biggest spread on the bullets was 5.25".. Thats pretty damn good for this gun. I was quite happy with that. Keep in mind i was shooting American Eagle .223 (yes the cheap 55gr from Walmart). I would say this rifle has the potential to be very accurate.

This is an older post, so I'm sure you figured it out.

Here are my groups from Sunday with an M&P Sport and three different hand loads. I'm using a stock trigger and stock barrel. I did put new hand guards and free float it.

Next time I'll use my other Sport with the Geiselle trigger.

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