All that makes sense. The AR prices now are just an adverse of 2013. Everyone got scared that they were going to take them away. Everyone and their Grandma bought one. They sold like wildfire regardless of price. Now the market is flooded. Combine that with a Republican administration with the scare level lowered. Its a buyers market. Goes in cycles. Enjoy your opportunities I'd say. The reason Walmart doesn't put AR's on the shelves anymore is because they can't sell them now. During the height of all that, they were one of the biggest distributors. They made a ton off of it, but recognize when the sales opportunity has exhausted itself.

Academy Sporting Goods Ruger AR-556 price VS S&W Sport II price;
http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/ruge...dCatid=1364736

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/smit...dCatid=3394306

Cabela's price on the same (2) aforementioned AR-15's;
http://www.cabelas.com/product/RUGER...00%26CQ_st%3Db

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/smit...dCatid=3394306

Grab A Guns price on the same (2) aforementioned AR-15's;
Ruger AR-556 Black AR-15 .223 / 5.56 NATO 16.1-inch 30Rd

http://grabagun.com/smith-and-wesson...rce=igodigital

Rugers online are selling from $519-$549 at places like Gunprime and Prepper Gun shop. Within the last month Gunprime was selling them for $499 + Shipping.

Your locals are lying to you. AR15s across the board are coming down in price. I could have bought a BCM RECCE 14.5 from Brownells the other day for $1295. That is an incredible price for that rifle, about $200 less than it would have been this time last year. Prices across the board are lower because so many people panic bought over the last 2 years. The market is saturated but the manufacturers are still pumping out guns.

I mean even the SA Saint is already dropping. I have seen them for as low as $750 shipped and that is a brand new offering.

Ruger AR-556 556 NATO 16.1″ Black 30rd 8500 – GUNPRIME

http://wwhttps://www.preppergunshop....fles/rug-8500/

RUGER 8500 AR556 5.56NATO BLACK SIX POSITION STOCK (1) 30rd mag - PRESIDENT'S DAY SALE !!!

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You kinda messed up the links there, but you see what I was talking about....

Academy sells both for $699.99

Cabela's sells both for $699.99

Grabagun has the Smith for less money than the Ruger...

There are some online places where they have the Smith and Ruger at the same price, or within $20 or so...

Followed that Gunprime link, and they're showing the Sport II for 499. Everywhere except Cali, so you guys are getting some good pricing. And PrepperGun has the ruger on sale for 550, while their Cal legal ruger goes for 670.

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Just bought my Sport II two weeks ago from SMGA for $499 + free delivery. Was delivered to my FFL in 3 days.

Smoky Mountain Guns & Ammo - Smith and Wesson 10202 M&P15 SPTII 556NATO 16" 30RD BLK

Looks like they still have them in stock.

Those places are always high in comparison when it comes down to it. Cabelas is where you go to play with the gun. Then you buy it online once you know what you want. The dunderhead masses or those poor souls without a good FFL local are the ones they cater to. Though that statement is probably **** because anywhere that has a Cabelas should be a large enough area to have plenty of FFL options. But maybe I'm just spoiled with my varying $8, $5, and $1 transfers from those fine folks at Casino Pawn in Van Buren, AR.

The point is that they sell both the Ruger and the Smith at the same price... disagreeing with Disabled statement that the Ruger is more expensive.

I was actually basing it on the GAG website, AND, what my (2) cousins told me.
If I had to buy the AR-556 or the Sport II again, it would be the Sport II. I like the Sport II's lower over the AR-556's lower.
BTW, I have been working on an AR-556 threaded delta ring made from mild steel, and......
To be continued............

Fast delivery.

I bought mine for $539. No tax and free shipping. Plus an additional $25 for the FFL. I still thought that was a bargain, considering Cabelas is still listing them for $699 not including tax.

What was that about the more expensive "higher quality" Ruger AR-556 again? $455.99 inc delivery (with a code) on Sportsmansguide.

Ruger AR-556, Semi-Automatic, 5.56 NATO, 16.1" Barrel, 30 Rounds - 643528, Semi-Automatic at Sportsman's Guide

$479.99 inc delivery at Sportsman's outdoor superstore.

Ruger AR-556 5.56 NATO M4 Flat-Top Autoloading Rifle | Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore

And $475 at GrabAGun.

Ruger AR-556 Black AR-15 .223 / 5.56 NATO 16.1-inch 30Rd

Don't remember seeing the Sport 2 for under $499 yet.

Interesting. Two weeks ago, when I was ordering mine, the cheapest I could find AR-556 was around $600. I chose S&W in the end not only because of $ but also because there were some complaints about Ruger's quality control - something I didn't see about S&W.

I like being one of the dunderhead masses. At least I can completely look the gun over before purchase. Can usually look at several. Sometimes Cabela's has sales, which at least brings them to online prices. But I seem to always buy two weeks before the sale.

In a way, I can sometimes make the price difference up. In the last two years, around Christmas, Cabela's sold several gun related products that are normally around $200, for $99 to $129. No one on the internet was going this low, since I always check.

I may never purchase a gun over the internet, even though I'll buy many parts online (such as AR-15 barrels, triggers, etc.) Whenever I pull a product off the shelf, I inspect it closely, to see if there is a chance that it was returned. I have a feeling, that in the future, when most shopping is done online, that many customers will end up with someone's returned piece of merchandise. I do look at stores return policies, just to see how liberal they are, in accepting returns.

Do me a favor please. Can you PM me with the information you saw/read/noticed/all of the above, about the AR-556? I own an AR-556 and have NEVER seen any of these QC issues. It will make good reading for me. BTW, I own a Sport I as well.

I've bought from gun shops on the net but I did a LOT of research about the seller before I ordered. I bought an SKS from Classic Arms. It was a great price on a still packed in cosmoline SKS. I rarely shot that rifle but it was a great deal. I ended up trading it for a silver bracelet for my daughter and came out way ahead.

I said it was only a matter of time until we hit the $450 mark from large manufacturers like S&W & SA. I have been the Sport II for $495 shipped.

There have also been a ton of ARs like Anderson, Deton, American tactical going for $400 and under. If you are in the market for a AR15 now is the time to buy!

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Use should dictate gear!

Just some of the ones I read through, copied from my browsing history. I am sure that AR-556 is a great rifle and these kinds of things tend to be blown out of proportion, but this being my very first AR I wanted to make sure any malfunction is user error. There were of course issues reported with S&W as well, but overall I found more complaints about Ruger's QC.

Ar 556 troubles. - Ruger Forum

Have you bought a Ruger AR556 and had a problem with it? - AR15.COM

Ruger AR-556 problems - The Firing Line Forums

RugerForum.com • View topic - Ruger Quality control

Is anyone else having problems with Ruger QC? : guns

Finally, see the comment by Jeff Coleman below that comparison video - I think this was the last straw that pushed me towards S&W. Not because of what he said, just literally the last such comment when I made up my mind. I did consider getting Ruger at first, primarily because of reading tons of comments on how 1:7 twist rate is vastly superior to the 1:9. Which seems also to be blown way out of proportion.


Oops, sorry, looks like the forum automatically embedded the video instead of following the link to Youtube. So I copied the comment below. He is not piling on Ruger, quite opposite.

Jeff Coleman1 year ago
My brother and I both have the Ruger, he has had zero problems after 1500+ rounds, and most reviews will confirm this rifle is well liked. We run a gun store in Oregon, do gunsmithing, cerakote, etc. I am picky about my guns, and a big fan of Ruger and SW, I chose the Ruger mainly for the barrel, the nicely done front sight, etc. When I got my Ruger, I tried to clear a cartridge, no go, round stuck, as mentioned in this video. This was before it had been fired, brand new, never fired. After firing a 30 rnd mag, checked out ok, no problem since, break in? Not sure, but my brass is getting a scrape on the top (I used a sharpy to index), bullet has a scratch even if you hold it away from the lugs with your finger during extraction of cartridge.

My second outing with the Ruger AR556. the front pin on the front sight just FELL OUT. I punched it back in, its fine now. The castle nut came loose, no prob but was the assembly line drunk? The charge handle button spring was binding, turned out to be a bur, I fixed it. The crush washer is way off center, not a big deal but come on! no pride in your work? I love Rugers, and this rifle is very accurate and in 200 rounds no fte or ftf, most people praise it, I got a lemon? I called Ruger and they were willing to pay shipping both ways to fix it, but I can do that myself.

As for the sport 2, I have not fired it, but the trigger feels better than any ar15 in that price range, the feed ramps are polished nicely, overall feels high quality (although the front sight cant compare to the Ruger, not even close). The sport 2 is a great value, I put more faith in Smith and Wesson quality control now, but honestly, on paper, and/or perfect factory build to perfect factory build, the Ruger is overall better IMO. Thanks for the review fellas, just thought I'd chime in.

A lot is blown out of proportion. For instance, the QC on the last link. I own three Ruger revolvers. Nothing like what's said.

We can also do the same with S&W. If I just went with the complaint section, I'd never touch a S&W Shield. Yet, I own two, and they've worked perfectly.

I am sure it is. I am not taking sides, especially since this is my first S&W and would've been my first Ruger, the other firearms I own speak German. I am merely saying that being on the fence regarding which one to buy, I just found more complaints about Ruger issues - not only specifically pertaining to AR-556, but overall QC - to make me chose S&W. In the end, I am sure I'd be just as happy with Ruger, most likely.

I think you made the right choice. Even putting any QC issues aside and take a perfect rifle from S&W and Ruger, I would still go with the S&W. Why?

1. S&W uses standard parts. Ruger uses a non-standard front sight base and a non-standard delta ring assembly. This has caused issues for people who wanted to use some drop in hand guards, particularly if they extend past the FSB on the Ruger.

2. The firing pin in the Ruger is unshrouded and the collar of the firing pin cocks the hammer, vs the ramp cut on the BCG of the S&W. This can cause the firing pin and firing pin retaining ring to wear. Older design from Colt trying to appease politicians. No reason to deal with this today with the choices available.

I think Ruger has fixed the problems with the taper pins falling out of the gas block. That was a real issue, reported by many.

There are two dealers online on Gun Broker selling them for $499 plus shipping.

It is indeed blown way out of proportion.

And the advice that 1:7" is best is just a flat out ignorant statement.

The fact is, if you primarily shoot 40 to 55 grainers then 1:12" will work perfect fine and is ideal, especially for hunting bullets for varmints and predators. I have a Browning 1885 Single Shot in 223 with a 1:12" twist and it is more accurate than any AR15. Have killed more critters with it than all my other guns combined.

Twists up to 1:9" will stabilize bullets weights of 40 to 62 grains. Groups start opening up with heavier bullets. 77 grain and higher may or may not tumble.

1:8" is ideal with bullets of 62gr to 77gr. Groups may be a bit larger with heavier bullets. Lighter bullets at long range (600+ yards) may land body on instead of nose on due to overstabilization (spinning too fast, which keeps the nose up).

1:7" is ideal for 69gr into the 90gr range. It works OK with bullets down to 55 grain but may open up groups. It can badly overstabilize bullets of 40 grains and will do so with some 55 grainers.

In addition, if you use varmint bullets, there is concern about too high of an RPM blowing them up in midair. This is why some 22-250's have 1:14" twist. They are designed to shoot the same varmint bullets as the 223, but the increased velocity gives them increased RPM, so this helps keep bullets from blowing up and from overstabilizing them at longer ranges. Those using an AR15 for varminting with 40 to 55 grain varmint bullets should consider slower twists.

So, one should consider what bullet they will primarily be shooting? The least expensive are in the 55 to 63 gr range. I think that may be why S&W chose that twist for the Sport II. When I was looking for an AR15 to set up for low light use, that was one of my criteria. No twists faster than 1:9" because I almost always use 55 grain and rarely even 62 grain.

Edit: This illustrates what I'm referring to by overstabilization. You won't see this at 100 yards but you will out around 500+ yards when shooting lighter bullets like 55 grainers. The gyroscopic stabilization keeps the nose pointing in the air instead of the nose following the trajectory path. There is also a tendency to yaw off the flight path to the side.

I've been looking to purchase a new rifle, did some shopping & decided on the S&W Sport II.

Stopped into my local shop Friday morning (I like to keep the local guy in business) told him I was there to order a Sport II, he said it would be $619 + tax.

I showed him this ad for the sport II at Gunbuyer for $498 with free shipping.
Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport II 5.56mm 16" Barrel 30+1 10202 - Gunbuyer

He told me his cost is $569, and to let him know when my new Sport II was on its way from Gunbuyer.
That's the 2nd reason he gets my business.

I called him a few hours later to inform him to keep a eye out for it next week.

Thanks ! Very interesting.

At what distance would the stabilizing effect of a tighter twist rate on heavier bullets become noticeable ? I.e. if I limit myself to 300 yards, would I really see much difference between a 55 gr and a 77gr ?

Yup because lots of people are shooting their Sport IIs or other $500 AR15s at 500 yards. Most times when I am at the range most people are shooting under 100 off a bench with a rest and their targets still look like shotgun blasts. You are not going to see the effects of overstabalization before 300 yards with a 1:7 twist 16" barrel and a 55gr projectile IMHO. Maybe we should do a poll and see how many people on the board regularly shoot their AR15 at 300 yards yet alone 500. I would bet not many.

We get it the 1:9 was the perfect choice for you and if the rest of the world used their rifle for the exact same purposes in the exact same way you do then the Sport II would be the perfect rifle for everyone.

I agree the S&W knows that the 1:9 twist will satisfy the needs of the Sport II's target audience but if they believed it was the perfect all around choice why did they offer the Sport with a 1:8? They started with the 1:8 and switched to the 1:9 while keeping the 1:8 for all the higher end rifles. I wonder why.... = Cost.

I also agree that people should choose the twist rate based on what they will be shooting and what they want to accomplish with their rifle. There is no one single correct answer for everyone.

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Use should dictate gear!

My rifle range only is 100 yard so that's what I shoot at with my 3 entry level AR-15's. I have a S&W AR 15 Sport II, a DPMS Oracle, and a PSA Freedom. The PSA Freedom with a 416R Stainless 1/7 barrel and the other two have 1/9 barrels, They all shoot about the same 1.5 to 2 inch groups at 100 yards with the PSA AR being more accurate and closer to 1.5 inch.

I enjoy shooting all three and my main ammo is usually either 55 grain Nosler Ballistic tip or 55 grain FMJ BT. I don't plan on these 3 rifles being hunting rifles except for maybe varmints. I have lots of bolt action hunting rifles from 22-250 to 338 Win Mag for those purposes.

I own the At 15's because they are fun to shoot and have the capacity to be useful in a bad situation if ever needed. I was a Combat Infantry soldier in Vietnam so I'm comfortable with the platform.

I agree 100%. I might just go list the S&W complaints later tonight when I have nothing else to do.
I own (8) S&W firearms. I NEVER complain about them, the QC, etc. It just never ceases to amaze me how the S&W fanboys are so much like the Glock fanboys. SMH!

If I ever get burned on an online purchase, I may end up that way as well. Knock on wood. But... I just bought 2 Walthers this past week at a local LGS. P99 for $389 ($544 on Buds currently) and a PPQ Navy threaded barrel for $424 ($630 currently on Buds). So those deals do in fact exist. On the adverse of that, my M&P Sport at $525 after everything, my M&P40 and my Beretta 92FS Trident were all online buys that I could not get close to locally.

In the end, its an internet forum. Only people on here are people that just want to or like to talk about this junk. Likely the majority of people buying a Sport dont even know what the twist rate is. I've got a friend with a higher end S&W AR and a SCAR and I bet he hasn't shot either one over 3 times in the last 2 years. I GUARANTEE you he doesn't know the first thing about a twist rate. I guess bottom line of that is that for someone worried about a twist rate, they probably are going to know this going in. When I bought my Sig with its 1:7 twist, I didn't have the first clue if that was good or bad or what. And I guess its supposed to be for heavier bullets, but it shot a 7/8" group with 50gr Am Eagle 223's a couple weeks back with a 4x scope, and that was the 2nd of two groups I shot with it. Just seems like a lot of this is overthought. Kind of like this rail is better than that because it weights 8.5lbs instead of 8.8.

I kinda agree here. We talk about the specs of the AR because such a big deal is made about the specs... mil-spec this, commercial that... funny thing is that many know the specs of their AR, but have no clue about most of their other firearms. Does anybody know what twist rate or what the barrel material is on their old thutty thutty, or 30.06?

I'm going to say 1/12-1/14 and carbon steel?

Haha! Bro Notta Clue!

Back before the last round of shootings and price jumps on the AR I saw the Sport for as low as $475. The price can still get lower. I think $450 isn't out of the question.

I have no desire to wade into the twist debate again but I will say that I saw lots of entry level AR's shooting 500 yards at my gun club. At least they did before they closed the 500 yard range. I have no reason to go there now. That was the only place I could go shoot that far.

I agree with this too.... Beginner, expert, doesn't really matter... give folks an area where they can shoot that far, and they will try it, with whatever gun they got. I've seen guys shooting .22lr that far on another forum, just to see if they could do it.

On some other boards folks are recommending the Ruger now due to the price... forget features, price rules the day!

I've seen people hit targets at that distance with a .22 too. Bullets tend to fly fairly straight unless the wind is a factor. I've shot 250 yards with a .22 myself and hit within a foot of my target. It was out in the middle of a plowed, dusty field and it was easy to see the dust rise from the point of impact. My brother hit the target we were shooting at from that distance.

I shot several AR's at 500 yards too. People often switched rifles at our range. I never had real good luck at it but they weren't totally out of the ball park either. I would miss by a few feet - maybe 3 feet. And that's with very little practice to speak of with those guns. I shot an AR 10 that only missed by a foot or so.

For me the Sport II purchase was about S&W reputation and the cost for my first AR platform rifle. I was aware of the 1:9 twist rate but it did not deter me due to it being my entry level AR rifle at $599 in June 2016.
I hope prices do continue to fall for the Sport II, as the trend seems to be that other brands and models are also falling.

I agree with that I am not saying that people won't shoot at that range if it is available to them I am just saying that submoa accuracy will not be a consideration. LOL

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Use should dictate gear!

True... Measured in "Did I hit it?" and high fives all around if they did!

I heard gun sales started dropping the end of November ..

I just picked up a S&W AR 15 MagPul Tactical .. on Bud's military discount side for just under $800 to my FFL .. its an older model but not much difference between it and the new Tactical models costing more then 600 dollars more then it was .. Just need to save up for a good scope and red dot .. and will be setup like I want ..

So there are some decent deals and more showing up .. Talked to the owner of the range I go to .. he said after Christmas rush for small 9 mm pistols he said sales have dropped off more then 30 % in Jan & Feb from the end of last year .. said so far he was 15% slower this year then last .. but that range traffic was up .. with more than an hour wait sometimes on weekends to get a lane .. and more women shooting and buying

GrabAGun has Sport II Optical Ready for $525 today:
Smith and Wesson M&P-15 Sport II Optics Ready Black 5.56NATO / .223Rem 16-inch 30rd

How is this for a great price on the Sport II?

Smoky Mountain Guns & Ammo - Smith and Wesson 10202 M&P15 SPTII 556NATO 16" 30RD BLK

and free shipping to boot.
I must resist the urge.

Saw this at GrabaGun, while checking out pricing on a SD9Ve

Smith and Wesson M&P-15 Sport II Optics Ready Black 5.56NATO / .223Rem 16-inch 30rd

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