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Old 02-22-2017, 11:06 AM
theirish81 theirish81 is offline
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Default M&P15 sport very weird cycling problem

Hello everyone,
I have bought a brand new M&P15 sport, 16 inches, very classic configuration. I had my gunsmith replace the handguard, remove the front sight post and replace the gas block. Unfortunately this happened before I could try the rifle.
As the mid/long range is far away, I played with it for a month using the Ciener 22LR conversion.

Now, when I finally could go to the right range, I encountered a number of problems. I used factory ammo.
The first 2 mags, the gun wasn't cycling at all and I had to pull the charging handle every time to eject the spent case and load the next round. I thought "damn, the guy did not align the gas block right".

Then something unexpected happened. The action started working BUT the gun was expelling both the spent case AND the following live round, leaving the chamber empty!

To exclude any other cause, I asked a pal to lend me a magazine and suddenly the gun started running perfectly!
Then I went back to my magazine and everything kept working flawlessly.

Did anyone ever experience anything like this?
Could it be 22LR gunk left in the buffer tube that cleaned itself?
Could it be just the stupid magazine?
I'd like to have an opinion before I run to my gunsmith because he's very busy and I know it'll take forever to get a fix.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:28 AM
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Default M&P15 sport very weird cycling problem

It's quite possible that the gas block and barrel port are misaligned, gas tube is gunked up, or the gas key is loose on the bolt. The buffer is a large spring and weight and shouldn't be an issue. I'd would run a new magazine, take a pipe cleaner and run it dry through the gas tube, and check the bolt carrier. If all that is done and checks out ok, I'd say it's the gas block alignment.

I've never seen or heard of a spent casing and live round being ejected at the same time. This is a valuable lesson learned...shoot it before you start modifying to check for any OEM issues. I'd say send it back to smith but you've voided your warranty. You'd have to return it back to stock configuration before trying it.

Last edited by jagular; 02-22-2017 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:59 AM
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Wait a minute, that's got to be impossible to do, eject 2 cases at once with only one trigger pull. It just physically can't be done.

But your first problem on the cycling sounds like a gas problem. Quick test to see if your gas block is aligned is to spray gun scrubber down the gas tube. If it comes out the muzzle then the tube is at least alinged somewhat. If nothing comes out, then you block is not lined up properly.
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:20 PM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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Probable that lead from the .22's plugged the gas tube and had to be blown out. Gas tubes should be self cleaning. Use gun scrubber if it makes you feel better.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:15 PM
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Yep I'm going with dirty from the 22LR (another reason why conversions are not the best idea) and/or not enough lube on the BCG for the short stroking. Easy to eliminate them before you go blaming the gas block alignment. Honestly even a ham fisted muppet can align a gas block the hole is a lot larger than the port in the barrel you have to be way off for it to be bad enough to cause cycling problems and at that point it likely wouldn't cycle at all, most short stroking is related to incorrectly sized gas port in the barrel in combination with buffer weight and ammo type, so doubt it's that. What angle was the brass ejecting at?

As for the double eject I've never seen that before, the only way I could see it happening is if a round was being stripped in reverse as the bolt went backwards, which could only be bad mag. Chuck that one away to be on the safe side mags are so cheap it's not worth messing around with them.

Last edited by arnoob; 02-22-2017 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Fixed typos
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:33 AM
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That makes no sense. How is the bolt going to stroke a 2nd time to eject a 2nd cartridge? Only thing I can think of is the magazine is bad and the upper lips are too wide and its ejecting on its own due to spring pressure. Where basically the only thing holding the top round in the mag is the bolt sitting over the top of it and when the bolt retracts it pops out. Seriously, there is no way the rifle could be ejecting a 2nd round from the barrel.
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Old 02-23-2017, 12:23 PM
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That makes no sense. How is the bolt going to stroke a 2nd time to eject a 2nd cartridge? Only thing I can think of is the magazine is bad and the upper lips are too wide and its ejecting on its own due to spring pressure. Where basically the only thing holding the top round in the mag is the bolt sitting over the top of it and when the bolt retracts it pops out. Seriously, there is no way the rifle could be ejecting a 2nd round from the barrel.
I have a semi auto riffle of a different variety then the AR, that did exactly that, and that was the reason..
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
theirish81 wrote:
I have bought a brand new M&P15 sport, 16 inches, very classic configuration. I had my gunsmith replace the handguard, remove the front sight post and replace the gas block.
Since the topic of Sport II modifications is being discussed in another active thread, would you mind saying why you chose to buy a Sport II and then pay a gunsmith to replace the handguards and replace the front sight/gas block rather than simply buying an AR that already had those things?

I have never had anything like this happen, but then I've never had a gunsmith perform that much "surgery" on a new rifle, either. The fact that the rifle did begin functioning again strongly suggests that the gas port, gas block or gas tube was temporarily or partially blocked and the repeated firing blew it clear.
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro2nd View Post
I have a semi auto riffle of a different variety then the AR, that did exactly that, and that was the reason..
I've had the same thing, but the mag would puke the rounds before I could even get it in the rifle... The mag split along the seam on the back.
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:46 PM
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I've had the same thing, but the mag would puke the rounds before I could even get it in the rifle... The mag split along the seam on the back.
that's pretty much what happen once I pulled it..
went to throw a few more rounds in it, but they were popping back out.. ouch..
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:00 AM
Flash_80 Flash_80 is offline
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Originally Posted by hdwhit View Post
Since the topic of Sport II modifications is being discussed in another active thread, would you mind saying why you chose to buy a Sport II and then pay a gunsmith to replace the handguards and replace the front sight/gas block rather than simply buying an AR that already had those things?
Again?

Shoot, I'll answer again. Its less expensive, you get what you want. You aren't limited to whatever handguard comes on the production gun you are referring to. I mean, I wouldn't spend $1200 on a M&P15 TS and then pay more because I wanted something different than the Troy handguard that came with it. This is and was a stupid argument. Why do you care? What does it have to do with his question?
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Flash_80 View Post
Again?

Shoot, I'll answer again. Its less expensive, you get what you want. You aren't limited to whatever handguard comes on the production gun you are referring to. I mean, I wouldn't spend $1200 on a M&P15 TS and then pay more because I wanted something different than the Troy handguard that came with it. This is and was a stupid argument. Why do you care? What does it have to do with his question?
It's a fair question, especially since the OP does not have the skill to do the work himself and paid a gunsmith to do the work for him... for the price of the Sport, plus the hand guard and gunsmith fees, he probably could have purchased the 15T and had the configuration he wanted right out of the box... or, if he didn't do free float and just wanted the front sight removed, he could have purchased the Sport II ORC...

Note that he never fired the rifle before making changes, so he bought a rifle in a configuration that he did not want...
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Old 02-24-2017, 01:08 AM
arnoob arnoob is offline
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Who cares, it's off topic, he did what he did and now he has a problem, can't we just try and help the guy figure his problem out without a huge debate about whether he wasted money by not "buying the right rifle" in the first place? I think it's fine we have a thread dedicated to discussing that topic but to jump on every thread where someone modified a Sport with opinions on how stupid it was is not just unhelpful it's unfair. My 2¢.

Last edited by arnoob; 02-24-2017 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 02-24-2017, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by arnoob View Post
Who cares, it's off topic, he did what he did and now he has a problem, can't we just try and help the guy figure his problem out without a huge debate about whether he wasted money by not "buying the right rifle" in the first place? I think it's fine we have a thread dedicated to discussing that topic but to jump on every thread where someone modified a Sport with opinions on how stupid it was is not just unhelpful it's unfair. My 2¢.
Well, since the other thread was closed because some folks couldn't behave, we can't continue the discussion there...

Nobody has called the OP stupid... just curious why he would choose a certain gun and pay to have it made into something else before ever firing a shot. We have no way of knowing if the rifle functioned prior to modification, so the fact that it was changed is relevant to the problem. Had he fired it prior to mods, we would at least have a base line of a working rifle to base assumptions on. As far as being "fair", not even sure what you mean by that... if the OP thinks we are being unfair or mistreating him, he can choose not to answer.

ETA: To keep this on track, OP you have a couple of choices... keep putting rounds down range in it and see if the problem reoccurs, or take it back to the gunsmith. How many rounds did you put through it after it quit acting up? I would mark the magazine that you initially had issues with... keep it in your rotation, but mark it so that you can see if it is the only mag with problems.

Last edited by cyphertext; 02-24-2017 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 02-24-2017, 02:52 AM
Flash_80 Flash_80 is offline
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Indeed, if its limited to that mag, trash it and move forward. If the problem persists with multiple mags, then you've got a problem on your hands. I have a buckmark mag that doesn't hold the slide back and doesn't chamber from time to time. I put a scratch on to identify it from the other. Still wonder why I still keep the thing.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:07 AM
theirish81 theirish81 is offline
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Hello everyone,
thanks a lot for the lively responses, I really appreciate it.

I wish I could buy any AR I want, but unfortunately I'm writing from Italy, where guns, imported or domestic, are VERY expensive. Imported guns also have very low availability, so you need to buy what you can find.
Moreover, every "advanced" upgrade from the factory is charged like 3 times by the importer, so the gunsmith work was way cheaper than buying a "better" AR.

You are right though, I should have tried the rifle before modifying it. The gunsmith runs a shop and did a good bundle price for both the rifle and the work, so I thought it was a great deal.

I'll be at the range next week for a second attempt and will let you know how it goes.

Thanks everyone for the support
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by theirish81 View Post
Hello everyone,
thanks a lot for the lively responses, I really appreciate it.

I wish I could buy any AR I want, but unfortunately I'm writing from Italy, where guns, imported or domestic, are VERY expensive. Imported guns also have very low availability, so you need to buy what you can find.
Moreover, every "advanced" upgrade from the factory is charged like 3 times by the importer, so the gunsmith work was way cheaper than buying a "better" AR.

You are right though, I should have tried the rifle before modifying it. The gunsmith runs a shop and did a good bundle price for both the rifle and the work, so I thought it was a great deal.

I'll be at the range next week for a second attempt and will let you know how it goes.

Thanks everyone for the support
Thanks for the follow up! Being outside the USA is a whole different perspective on gun ownership that many of us here have no experience with.

Hopefully, the problem was just gunk from the .22lr, but I have my doubts... how much .22lr did you shoot?

As far as magazine issues, is it hard to get more magazines in Italy? Are they expensive as well? We can get 30 round magazines here in the US for less than $15.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:36 AM
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As far as magazine issues, is it hard to get more magazines in Italy? Are they expensive as well? We can get 30 round magazines here in the US for less than $15.
Not to throw salt in his wound because he's in Italy, but I saw a bundle yesterday from somewhere on the internet (can't remember where) with 10 Pmags for $85. That's cheap.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:52 AM
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Fortunately magazines are not very expensive here, so I will definitely give it a try!
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