Good day everyone !

I just bought the very first to me AR-15 rifle, a Sport 2, and took it to the range for the first time yesterday, firing a hundred of Federal FMJ rounds with not one hickup . Only shot AKs before and never cared much for their ergo. The AR is a pure joy to shoot, by comparison (not sure how much is due to a lighter round with less recoil, but I think ergonomical design has had a lot to contribute there).

Two questions that I hope you may help with:

1) It has a fixed A2 style front post and a flip rear sight with a peep hole. At 50 yards I could barely see the 2" bullseye (the diffraction caused by the peep hole didn't help my eyes to focus either). At 100 yards I'm lucky to see the target. I want to put a sight on it to make shooting more enjoyable, while keeping the iron sights for backup. Asking questions here and there, it seems there's really no good way to mount a traditional scope on this gun without removing the front post or sacrificing the ergonomics - is this correct ?

Would going to a co-witness red dot (I was eyeing Bushnell TRS-25) and a flip-out magnifier help ? Any other suggestions ? I'd like to keep it under $200 total.

2) I ordered it from an online store, and while inspecting at my FFL saw what looked like a line of baked - on grease on the receiver starting just above the bolt catch and all the way towards the barrel. The area back from the bolt catch is clear & clean, and this is the only imperfection on the rifle. Upon cleaning and further inspection, I now think it's scuffing. Most likely from the factory.

I don't want to send the rifle back to S&W to fix a cosmetic damage - it would probably take weeks and cost me $50 - and was thinking of getting Aluminum Black pen and just covering the marks up. Any reasons why this would be a bad idea ? Can I use AB over already anodized aluminum, or does it only work on clear alum ?

TIA !

I know I can hit out to 200 yards with my red dot. More mature shooters may not be able to due to vision. You may want to consider a 3-9x scope as any power >2 will push the focal plane beyond your front post where it will disappear. I find that the red dot and magnifier is cumbersome and heavy. My intended use would drive my decision. The TRS is a good budget optic that is great for the range. It's not battle proven (for those that may care) but it'll work for 95% of your needs.

My sport came all knickered up as well. It came from the factory with what looks like baked on finish. It's definitely noticeable compared to the oem finish. I didn't worry but anything you do to correct it will not make it perfect.

I suspect that part of your issue is that you aren't using the sights correctly... I bet your eye is too far from the peep sight. You should be up close to it. The military teaches nose to charging handle.

Also, you want to focus on the front sight. The target should be fuzzy, but you should be able to dissect the target with the sight.

That front A2 site disappears from view with a scope, especially from about 2 on up..

Thanks. I may be using it wrong, I am used to pistols and hunting / sports rifles with scopes.

Still, what kind of optics would suit the A2 style front post ?

Any... At 3x to 4x power and above, the front post will not be seen through a scope.

A red dot can be used and you will not notice the front post if you shoot with both eyes open and focus on the target down range. You can also choose how much of the front sight is in the sight picture by choosing to co-witness at either absolute or lower 1/3rd height.

Not sure if you realized it or not, but that peep hole on the flip up site, can be folded down and out of the way...

Unless you have bare aluminum where it is scuffed, try applying some lube over the scuff. If that doesn't cover the scuff to your satisfaction, call S&W customer service. They will issue you a call tag so the rifle goes back on their dime. You have a one year warranty on cosmetics. I sent one of mine back because the receiver was wrinkled where it did not fill out in the forming die.

I like red dots on my AR's that I use as range toys. My serious AR's carry low power scopes like 1-4 or 2-8. A 1x can be used like a red dot and I find that at 2x the front sight tower blurs enough that it is no longer a distraction. I prefer to have a front sight tower so I can attach a rear sight that has been previously zeroed if necessary. The tower is hard to knock off adjustment.

Don't write off iron sights. When I shot high power competition, the hard holders regularly shot clean out to 600 yards.

Yes I know, but it leaves a large wide space - I can see it useful for really close quarters shooting, but not for distance.

So I took my son's 3-9x scope from his .22 and while I couldn't mount it on that AR without a riser, it seems at 3x the post completely disappears. Thanks !

Yes the front sight disappears starting at 2X so any scope you like will work fine. Here's my latest AR 15 with a Nikon P223 scope in 3-9x40mm.

My red dot is absolutely lined up with my front A2 sight.
About the cosmetic issue, it's a new rifle. You DO want what you paid for, correct? If it were my rifle I would be on the phone first thing tomorrow morning telling S&W to send me a shipping label!
I know, some of you are saying,"If it doesn't effect the way it shoots I wouldn't worry about it." My reply would then be,"Did you pay for my rifle? NO! I paid for it, and if S&W F'ED up my rifles finish, then they can just make it right!"
Drop the mic..........

Sure, but the problem is, if it takes them 6 weeks turnaround time + a week for shipping, that's about 2 months that I don't have my new rifle. I did contact S&W and sent them a photo & a question about turnaround times, will see what they say.

Again here is evidence of a misunderstanding of how to use the sight. Don't look at the hole or the size of it; just look through the hole and concentrate solely on placing the front sight where you want the bullet to go. Regardless of hole size, used this way your eye will automatically center the front sight in the hole, and some very tidy shooting can be done at long range even with the larger peep.

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Pisgah

OK, will try ! My whole training so far was based on making sure the front post was in the center and level with the rear post.. and centering the front post inside rear sight with peep post dropped is difficult. But I will certainly try. Always open to new ways / ideas. Thanks !

Technically, the front post should be centered in the rear apeture opening, but don't over concentrate on it. Just FYI, iron sights are not meant for pinpoint shooting at 100 yards, they are meant to be battle sights where the target is a bit larger than a 2" bullseye. Still, with good eyes and familiartity with your rifle hitting bull with irons is absolutely possible.

Personally? I think you need magnification, it makes things so much easier and it will make shooting that much more enjoyable.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

You need to stick with the peep sight. The large aperture sight is used for low light conditions, and quicker target acquisition on close range targets... The only time I ever used the large aperture while in the military was while firing the rifle in a chem warfare suit.

Watch the videos I posted... get close to the peep sight, nose to charging handle. Focus on the front sight, target will be fuzzy... But with proper sight alignment, proper sight picture, breath control, and trigger control, you can hit the target using iron sights.

At first, don't worry so much about hitting the bullseye. Bring the target in to 50 yards. Use a 6 o'clock hold on the black so that your sight picture is easily repeatable. Shoot for groups. Do not change your sight picture while shooting the group, even if the bullet is impacting way high and right... keep the sight picture consistent and make a small group way high and right... then you can adjust your zero.

I don't understand your logic. When you inspected it at your FFL, why didn't you do something then and there? Maybe you knew it would have taken too long to get it fixed?
If it were mine I would send it back. If it were a new car and the fender were painted, except for one spot that was just primer, would you think to yourself,"Maybe I can just try and match the paint and do it myself."
Or, you now know it's damaged and you want to get it set up like you want it. That, and you have fondled it enough now to go ahead and let it go back to get it fixed. I don't know, but again, I would send it back.

When I sent mine in (November 2012) I had it back in 10 days.

This is a lousy snapshot, and it's an AR10 style gun, not an AR15, but it will illustrate the point. With tall AR15 style rings, a scope with a small enough occular (eyepiece bell), and the ability to mount the rear ring far enough forward to allow enough Picatinny slots to be free to mount a rear sight, yes, it is possible to mount a folding backup sight. While a folding backup sight is not mounted in the pic above, there is room for one. You just have to use the right combination of parts. Some cantilever monolithic scope mounts will work, and some of these have quick detach levers. Some rings do too.

That's a mighty tall order for anything with any quality.

Since you mentioned a scope as well as a red dot, and a $200 budget, perhaps you might consider spending an extra $129 and get an illuminated reticle scope set up specifically for AR15s. Most places retail this scope for $329.

Vortex Optics - Strike Eagle 1-6x24 AR-BDC

Millet makes a similar scope that retails for $299.

Millett - Designated Marksman Scope

As cyphertext pointed out, you may have your eye too far back from the peephole. On one of my M&P-15s the sight was about a third of the way up the receiver so I had to take it off and move it further back.

Interestingly, the video cyphertext posted shows an M-16 with carrying handle and integrated rear sight. On one of my M&P-15s, I removed the backup sight entirely and added a carrying handle with adjustable A3-style rear sight. It works very well and I never worry about batteries.

Where I shoot, the longest open space is 225 meters and that's where I set up my shooting range. All the other open areas are smaller, so most of my shooting is done at 100 meters or less and iron sights are more than sufficient for that.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. It was an "either / or" decision, but after getting all the advice and information (thank you all) I decided to go with a 3-9x scope, as I think this setup would be more fun at 50-100 yards.

Anyway, I decided to stop measurebating this to death, and ordered a Nikon Bushmaster 3-9 scope with offset mount rings. The next question is, if this doesn't clear the rear sight, should I get a more expensive Aero mount, a riser (which seems like it could create problems with too many things stacked up and prone to shaking loose) or just take that rear sight off altogether. Would it hold zero if I re-attached it in the same T slot later on ?

For a 3-9x scope, I like the Leupold Mark AR. The elevation knob is calibrated for 55 gr bullets, and you can order custom knobs for other bullets weights, cartridges, etc.

If you got a cantilever mount that is made for mounting to an AR, it should be fine... if not, just remove the rear sight... you can't use it while the scope is on the rifle anyway.

I know, just didn't want to mess with re-sighting it - no idea if it will hold zero if I just plop it back in the same place.

If you get it back in the same rail spot with the same tension to tighten it, it will be close.

Came here to thank you again. I had a little extra time today so I pulled out the gun & changed the stock extension to where I had my nose very close to the handle. Of course this made all the difference. I probably won't have a chance to fire it for another week but I was able to see right away what I was doing wrong. It feels so much more natural looking through the sights now. I did watch the video, too. Thanks again !

Glad I could help! Happy shooting!

So, S&W did send me a return shipping slip, but I decided to try and fix it myself. Got some Aluminum Black, covered the scratched up portion & some around it (looked ugly as sin when it dried), then took a fine steel wool pad and a can of automotive paint polish, and 20 min later it all looked like new. Saves me a trip to the post office and two weeks of wait, or more.

You and the others were right, of course, the front sight is invisible at 3x.

I do have a question. Cyphertext had posted the instructional video that said you have to keep your nose close to the charging handle when using the iron sights to achieve best sight picture. Wouldn't it than make sense to position the scope to maintain roughly the same stock length & the same distance from face to the rear of the scope ? Even if simply to maintain consistency ? Seems a lot of people position the end of that scope a bit farther back than I did.

Yes, when mounting a scope, you should still use the same, consistent cheek weld you use with irons and mount the scope forward enough for proper eye relief. This will also move the scope forward enough to help ease getting to the charging handle. Cantilever mounts made for the AR make it easier to mount the scope in this manner.

Thanks, that's exactly what I did, but the photos like the one I re-posted threw me off Well, I'm sure that just like with sporting rifles, there's no hard rules, just preferences Just was curious as to why so many people put the scope to where it protrudes behind the charging handle. I made sure mine was positioned such that I could just take it off and use the rear sights (using the technique you posted earlier) and not have to change the way I hold the gun.

Anyway, here it is ! Haven't had a chance to zero in the sight yet, it's been freezing here. But this is final, not going to start throwing tacticool stuff on it, to me it's perfect as it is. Well, maybe a sling. And a better pistol grip.. one day.

Put the scope where it lines comfortably and repeatedly for you when shouldering quickly at all power levels, biasing towards the lower power end for quick shooting.

I physically cannot get my nose to the rear of the receiver. I have three fused vertebrae in my neck.



The scope on my Remington R15 is much further back than how most people like it. I wouldn't mind it back a little more, but the mount I'm using is at its limit. Works. Maybe some day I'll wind up reversing a cantilever mount for another inch.



Here's a more extreme example. This is what it takes for me to properly and comfortably shoot a Remington 700.

So don't worry about what is "correct", do what works for you.

Make the gun conform to you, not you conform to the gun.

For me with the stock fully extended when I shoulder the AR-15 I have a perfect circle with the reticles where they were when I zeroed the rifle.

Brian, while you may have a limiting factor that does not allow you to follow correct and proper technique, I don't think advising a shooter to set up his rifle in the same manner as yours is sound advice. The scopes on your rifles are so far back, proper eye relief in a sitting or prone field position would be impossible.

That is NOT what I said. Let me refresh:

Put the scope where it lines comfortably and repeatedly for you when shouldering quickly at all power levels, biasing towards the lower power end for quick shooting.

So don't worry about what is "correct", do what works for you.

Make the gun conform to you, not you conform to the gun.

There is nothing in that which advises to set up the gun same manner I did.