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Old 04-18-2017, 08:50 PM
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Unhappy First jam on the new Sport II

Well I had my first stinking jam today while zeroing a new night vision scope. The AR is only 18 days old and the first time I've had a chance to fire live rounds. Had to stop and take it into the house and use tools to unjam it. The bolt would not go into battery or pull back. After prying the bolt back, it's a good thing it didn't go into battery or I would have pulled the trigger. The round was bent and lodged in the chamber. Looks like it didn't feed right and got bent by the bolt going forward. Pretty good ding in the side of the casing with a noticeable cant to the bullet.

Sure ruined my plan to burn up some rounds before lunch.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:01 PM
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Interesting! Will you send it back to S&W?
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:08 PM
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What mag are you using?

did it happen right off the batt? or after multiple shots out of the same mag?
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:09 PM
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Well, crud. That's no fun.

The only times I've had an AR bolt lock up on me was while shooting TulAmmo. Tul has done that to me twice now. I'll shoot up what I have, but I won't be buying more. I've shot a lot of Wolf both Polyformance and Military Classic without issues. I've also never had the issue with any brass cased ammo.

Were you shooting Tul by any chance?
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:49 PM
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It was all brand new Federal FMJ. I had already put about 20 rounds through it. The first 10 was trying to figure out why I was getting flyers. Couldn't zero for squat. Finally figured out I had the rifle cinched down too tight in the Caldwell Lead Sled. Removed the Velcro tie and did a one-shot zero. (Digital scope) The rest were just getting used to the trigger and getting a good group of threes. Then it just jammed.

I'm using MagPul Gen2 Pmags just like what came with the rifle. I don't know if it was the one that came with the rifle or one of the three I bought at the same time. All four are identical and I didn't mark them.

I do know the bolt was pretty stiff in the BCG when I first cleaned it after buying the rifle but figured it would free up with use. When I finally got the BCG out, I pulled the bolt and cleaned it better then added a little Tetra Gun Grease. That made a huge difference and the only drag seems to be caused by the gas rings. But it's a smooth drag now. I also checked the chamber and didn't see any damage.

I'll take it back out tomorrow morning and try to throw some rounds down range. I just came in from sighting the laser to match the scope zero and the mosquitoes were out in force. It had to be dark enough see the laser spot on the target or so I thought. The dot showed up in the scope even in daytime mode. I was going to go into nighttime mode when it got darker but too many mosquitoes.
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:53 PM
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How many rounds did you have in the mag, when you first inserted it?
any chance it was not all the way locked in, and migrated down a tad after shooting for a minute?
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:07 PM
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I started with a full 30 rounds. It was locked in. I had to use the release to get the mag out during diagnostics. I couldn't see it but I was pretty sure there was a round in the chamber and that made me a little anxious while trying to work the bolt back and forth at the range bench. Even more so when I brought it indoors to work on it.

With the bolt moving easier now, I'm hopeful the problem is gone.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:30 AM
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There was another thread recently about someone having their S&W Sport II bend bullets. You might want to locate it and follow what happens with it.
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX-Dennis View Post
Well, crud. That's no fun.

The only times I've had an AR bolt lock up on me was while shooting TulAmmo. Tul has done that to me twice now. I'll shoot up what I have, but I won't be buying more. I've shot a lot of Wolf both Polyformance and Military Classic without issues. I've also never had the issue with any brass cased ammo.

Were you shooting Tul by any chance?
There is a 100% cure for that; the BCM Extractor Upgrade Kit. Check out youtube, there are several videos on there about it.

BCM SOPMOD Bolt Upgrade/Rebuild Kit
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:29 AM
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Don't totally throw out the idea of a bad round too.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:16 AM
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Me and my father in law just went to the range Tue so I could zro my sport II and DD for the first time.

Luckily we put about 200 rds through each without a single bad round using gen II Pmags.

I was using Wolf 55gr on my sport II and 62gr on my Daniel Defense.

Hopefully you get your issue figured, I would have been hot if I had any problems from a brand new riffle the first time I fired it.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disabled1 View Post
There is a 100% cure for that; the BCM Extractor Upgrade Kit. Check out youtube, there are several videos on there about it.

BCM SOPMOD Bolt Upgrade/Rebuild Kit
That couldn't hurt, but my problem wasn't an empty casing stuck in the chamber. It was similar to the OPs issue with a slightly bent/crushed live round that wouldn't fully chamber and jammed the bolt partially open. The extractor held onto the round just fine, but it was extremely difficult to exert enough force on the charging handle to get it out. It's more than a bit uncomfortable trying to beat on the charging handle with a live round in there. I wound up using the edge of the shooting table to force it open, but it was not a good feeling having to do that. Maybe I need an aftermarket charging handle of some sort.

I chalked mine up to the fact that steel casings are less slick than brass since I've only had the issue with Tul. I could be wrong, though since the OPs occurred with Federal brass.

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Old 04-19-2017, 10:53 AM
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That couldn't hurt, but my problem wasn't an empty casing stuck in the chamber. It was similar to the OPs issue with a slightly bent/crushed live round that wouldn't fully chamber and jammed the bolt partially open. The extractor held onto the round just fine, but it was extremely difficult to exert enough force on the charging handle to get it out. It's more than a bit uncomfortable trying to beat on the charging handle with a live round in there. I wound up using the edge of the shooting table to force it open, but it was not a good feeling having to do that. Maybe I need an aftermarket charging handle of some sort.

I chalked mine up to the fact that steel casings are less slick than brass since I've only had the issue with Tul. I could be wrong, though since the OPs occurred with Federal brass.
I was afraid of breaking the thin aluminum charging handle so I used a padded screw driver and pried the bolt back. It took some good effort as I tried first to push the bolt into battery. As soon as the round cleared the chamber it ejected just fine. Here's a couple of pictures of the round.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:10 AM
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I didn't take pictures, but that's very similar to what mine looked like. I didn't worry too much about the charging handle breaking. They are relatively cheap to replace compared to a BCG.

If it does that to you again it may be time to send her in.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:19 AM
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I'm using MagPul Gen2 Pmags just like what came with the rifle. I don't know if it was the one that came with the rifle or one of the three I bought at the same time. All four are identical and I didn't mark them.
.
But do you by any chance know which one was in use when this issue happen?..

if so, leave it at home, and try another.. Even though they are new, good named Mags, ya never know? maybe a lemon made it out of the factory?

And how bad the shell is bent, I'm trying to figure out how a BCG could cause that, by its self?
even if it had excess drag, I cant see it doing that?..

Anyway, a Short time back, I had a shell jam really bad my self, I thought for sure I was gonna break the charging handle trying to jerk it back.. in my case it turned out to be an old GI mag I was trying out, but again, whats to say a newer, good brand, well known to be dependable mag, did not in fact, act up?..

Ammo? or Mag issue?

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Old 04-19-2017, 11:23 AM
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Yeah, I know they're cheap but I'm about a 50-mile round trip from a stocking dealer or a week away from an online order delivery. I guess that should be an item in my spare parts box?

Had too many side-tracks this morning so couldn't get back out early to shoot. I'm on the way out now. I'll be back after lunch to report. I still have a red dot to sight in for it too.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:30 AM
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But do you by any chance know which one was in use when this issue happen?..

if so, leave it at home, and try another.. Even though they are new, good named Mags, ya never know? maybe a lemon made it out of the factory?
I'll try another mag. The one I was using hasn't been reloaded yet so I know which one THAT is. I'll try a few rounds of my hog killers also and see how they shoot. I only have two types of ammo at the moment--It's NEW!
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:35 AM
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I was afraid of breaking the thin aluminum charging handle so I used a padded screw driver and pried the bolt back. It took some good effort as I tried first to push the bolt into battery. As soon as the round cleared the chamber it ejected just fine. Here's a couple of pictures of the round.
So was this a double feed? Looking at the round it has the markings of another round hitting the middle of the round pictured.

I dealt with this a lot when I was a Drill Sergeant at Ft Benning for two years, thats just what the double fed round looked like.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:53 AM
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Does the bolt close on a double feed? I would think not. I assumed the marks were from the breach as the round went in. I put my little finger into the breach and the machining is like razor blades in there.

I'm 10-7 for a while. Over...
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:11 PM
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Semi-auto's occasionally jamb....ammo , magazine dirty action.....
Just a fact of life . Don't let it bother you...un-jamb and Carry On.

May be the first but it won't be the last !
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:27 PM
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So was this a double feed? Looking at the round it has the markings of another round hitting the middle of the round pictured.

I dealt with this a lot when I was a Drill Sergeant at Ft Benning for two years, thats just what the double fed round looked like.
I think you're spot on Sarge. Loaded five rounds of my hog killers and went through those like butter on a hot skillet. Pulled that mag out and inserted a freshly loaded mag. The second round jammed.

This time I just dropped the mag and ejected the round with a little effort. I unloaded the mag and examined every round carefully. Every round looked good to my old eyes so I loaded five rounds in the mag and tried again. Fired smooth as silk. Loaded up 10 rounds and that went without a hitch.

I was pretty confident at that point that the mags are just tight and the second round down may be sliding forward by friction. I was getting hungry so I loaded up the remaining 13 rounds and went "full semi-auto". Brass was flying everywhere!

What's the deal with the mags? Will they loosen up or do I need to do something to get 30-round use out of them? Or are they just junk?
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:25 PM
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Interesting! Will you send it back to S&W?
Nope! This thing isn't leaving my sight if I can help it.

Never did post a picture so here's one I took while out today. Lots of tonnage to carry around.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:33 PM
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If happens again Call S&W and they will send you a pre paid shipper to send it back and they will correct anything wrong with it.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:39 PM
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If happens again Call S&W and they will send you a pre paid shipper to send it back and they will correct anything wrong with it.
The mags or the rifle?

I'll put a few hundred through it first. I'm not convinced there's anything wrong with the rifle just yet. I think the mag springs are too tight, stiff, strong, whatever.

Anyone treat ammo with dry lube? Would that help?
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:58 PM
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Anyone treat ammo with dry lube? Would that help?
Great way to increase back thrust on the bolt. Don't do it.

Was the cartridge jammed in the chamber above the bolt or below it?
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:15 PM
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I think you're spot on Sarge. Loaded five rounds of my hog killers and went through those like butter on a hot skillet. Pulled that mag out and inserted a freshly loaded mag. The second round jammed.

This time I just dropped the mag and ejected the round with a little effort. I unloaded the mag and examined every round carefully. Every round looked good to my old eyes so I loaded five rounds in the mag and tried again. Fired smooth as silk. Loaded up 10 rounds and that went without a hitch.

I was pretty confident at that point that the mags are just tight and the second round down may be sliding forward by friction. I was getting hungry so I loaded up the remaining 13 rounds and went "full semi-auto". Brass was flying everywhere!

What's the deal with the mags? Will they loosen up or do I need to do something to get 30-round use out of them? Or are they just junk?
We never had time to mess with bad mags in the military and just marked them and didn't use the bad ones anymore.

You might have better luck with metal GI mags or stock up on the PMAGs when they have the 10 mags sales going on.

Others here might have better mag trouble shooting advice, hopefully that's what your issue is.

Good looking rifle you have there!
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:03 AM
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My friends had a jam a couple days ago when we went shooting. Put a little dent in the round, he fired it before we left however. He's put around 160 rounds through it in total. I haven't had a problem with mine "knock on wood". that was using wolf gold.
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Tinhack wrote:
Here's a couple of pictures of the round.
Every time I have had something like that, it has been an issue with the magazine.

I know the whole AR world is ga ga over P-Mags but I ditched mine for some blackened stainless steel mags from C Products and haven't had a single problem with them.
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Tinhack wrote:
Anyone treat ammo with dry lube? Would that help?
No on one.
No on two.

Take the time to properly diagnose the problem and get it corrected.
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:51 AM
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A lot of people go by the rule of always put two less rounds in the Mag.
28/30 18/20 etc....
Like mentioned above, I like the ASC metal mag's
And remember a Rifle is a mechanical device, S**T will happen....
And mosquitos in Texas, Who knew....
Enjoy your Rifle..
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Old 05-07-2017, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Semi-auto's occasionally jamb....ammo , magazine dirty action.....
Just a fact of life . Don't let it bother you...un-jamb and Carry On.

May be the first but it won't be the last !
Thank you X 100!!!! It's what they do. If somebody tells you they have NEVER had a stoppage in a semi of any kind, they are doing a lot more carrying and rubbing it than they are shooting it. Today there will be a dozen men here shooting thousands of rounds, when somebody has a stoppage we all shout..Don't be mad, that's what they do!!! Clear it and SHOOT!
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:26 AM
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Nope! This thing isn't leaving my sight if I can help it.

Never did post a picture so here's one I took while out today. Lots of tonnage to carry around.
Is there an ATM somewhere on that rifle?
Seriously, you've got it going on there!
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:35 PM
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I have never had that problem either Pmags or brass cased ammo. I had a Bear steel case round that was jammed so tight the range officer had to take a rubber mallet hitting my charging handle to free. That was with an older generation M&P MOE. He knew exactly what to do and said is pretty common with a Russian ammo. I know this is a little off subject, but I have to think most causes of AR jams are either ammo or dirty chamber related.
I assume it was the cheap Russian steel case ammo so I gave what I had away and bought a BCM charging handle in case the original was bent. Just as a precaution, you might want make sure your charging handle is not bent.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batmann View Post
I have never had that problem either Pmags or brass cased ammo. I had a Bear steel case round that was jammed so tight the range officer had to take a rubber mallet hitting my charging handle to free. That was with an older generation M&P MOE. He knew exactly what to do and said is pretty common with a Russian ammo. I know this is a little off subject, but I have to think most causes of AR jams are either ammo or dirty chamber related.
I assume it was the cheap Russian steel case ammo so I gave what I had away and bought a BCM charging handle in case the original was bent. Just as a precaution, you might want make sure your charging handle is not bent.
There is NOTHING wrong with Russian ammo. Me and my gun shooting buddies use it (Wolf & TulAmmo) about 95% of the time. We buy it by the 1K round cases from SGAmmo.com
A bit of advice; by this Extractor Upgrade Kit from BCM and you can shoot Russian ammo to your hearts content!

BCM SOPMOD Bolt Upgrade/Rebuild Kit
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  #35  
Old 05-14-2017, 10:07 AM
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A week ago, I traded into yet another LNIB Sport II (I loves me some wheelin'-n-dealin' on the Armslist! ), and took it right out to my secret range nearby for a quick test fire. In the first couple rounds I had the exact same issue the OP had: a round jammed in tight, and wouldn't seat or extract. I finally pulled it loose (just tugging on the charging handle).
The round was bent and looked just like the one in the OP's pic.
I had a feeling my magazine wasn't fully inserted (I didn't think to check before removing it to deal with the jam).
After that, the rifle ran flawlessly, and did so for the next 3 consecutive days.
The last day I was out there (day before yesterday),while using my motorcycle seat as a rest, the seat rubbed against the magazine and pulled it out a little. I gave it a slap, and checked it, and it still didn't seat, so I popped it good, and it locked in. This was a P-mag, same as I used when I had the glitch, so I'm pretty sure it was just an improperly seated mag, and wouldn't be surprised of that's what happened to the OP, as well.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:30 AM
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Zero jams on my COLT LE 6940.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:02 AM
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...the seat rubbed against the magazine and pulled it out a little.
Did you mean the seat hit the mag release? I don't see how a properly seated mag could be "rubbed" and come out a little.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:20 AM
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Zero jams on my COLT LE 6940.
You probably just look at it and admire it more than you shoot it.

Do you think Colt has never had a rifle that had issues?
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:23 AM
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Did you mean the seat hit the mag release? I don't see how a properly seated mag could be "rubbed" and come out a little.
He is saying that the magazine wasn't properly seated to begin with. He had to smack it with some authority to get it to lock in.
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Old 05-14-2017, 12:49 PM
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Do you think Colt has never had a rifle that had issues?
I have personally cleared hundreds of jams on Colts in the two years I was a Drill Sergeant at FT Benning Ga., just saying.....
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Old 05-14-2017, 12:57 PM
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I don't understand the critical remarks directed toward those who have not experienced AR jams. Aren't these guns and magazines designed not to jam with a variety of ammunition? A reasonable person would assume that's the case. I suppose everyone should be prepared for a malfunction, but if it doesn't occur, that's okay.
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Old 05-14-2017, 02:09 PM
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I don't understand the critical remarks directed toward those who have not experienced AR jams. Aren't these guns and magazines designed not to jam with a variety of ammunition? A reasonable person would assume that's the case. I suppose everyone should be prepared for a malfunction, but if it doesn't occur, that's okay.
It's not towards someone who hasn't experienced a jam... It's towards the Colt fan boy who always posts about his Colt in the S&W forum, implying that the S&W is inferior.
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