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Old 04-30-2017, 12:26 AM
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The AR-15 is the best selling rifle in America. Of all the entry level AR-15's built, the top (5) were chosen as the best budget AR-15's produced. But, only (1) was chosen as the best budget entry level AR-15 all around.

The Best Budget AR-15 | Survival Sullivan
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Old 04-30-2017, 11:45 AM
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I don't trust anyone that says Delton is a good rifle for SHTF.

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Old 04-30-2017, 12:17 PM
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I don't trust anyone that says Delton is a good rifle for SHTF.

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That thar's funny rot thar!
I had never heard of the Mossberg MMR until I read the article. Does anyone here have any experience with this AR-15?
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:01 PM
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That thar's funny rot thar!
I had never heard of the Mossberg MMR until I read the article. Does anyone here have any experience with this AR-15?
No, but it doesn't appear to be a slouch. They have several models that are on par with any other on the market. The early reviews (2012) indicated a few shortfalls but it looks like those are just growing pains for any new product. They look pretty nice now. But what's a AR-15 supposed to look like?

This is just one.
MMR Tactical - Optics Ready | O.F. Mossberg & Sons
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:48 PM
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No, but it doesn't appear to be a slouch. They have several models that are on par with any other on the market. The early reviews (2012) indicated a few shortfalls but it looks like those are just growing pains for any new product. They look pretty nice now. But what's a AR-15 supposed to look like?

This is just one.
MMR Tactical - Optics Ready | O.F. Mossberg & Sons
$1253 MSRP? In the real world that's about $900.
I tell you what, it sure has transformed from its debut in 2012. I like it!
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:59 PM
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Wait, what?!?!? Growing pains, for a new product?!?! The AR has been around since the 1950's, if you can't get it right the first time around....

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Old 04-30-2017, 05:28 PM
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Wait, what?!?!? Growing pains, for a new product?!?! The AR has been around since the 1950's, if you can't get it right the first time around....

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Didn't COLT have growing pains in the very early 60's?
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:14 PM
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Didn't COLT have growing pains in the very early 60's?
Exactly! The design has been refined and proven in the last 60+ years already. Any company making an AR currently has lots of info at their disposal to create an AR with little to no flaws.

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Old 04-30-2017, 10:05 PM
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Any company making an AR currently has lots of info at their disposal to create an AR with little to no flaws.
Yeah that always works. Just bought a Llama 1911. It should be sweet. After all it's been over 100 years.

I wish gun makers were as committed to quality as they should be but that isn't always the case.
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Old 05-16-2017, 07:21 AM
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I don't agree with the statement that the Sport II is an improvement over the Sport because of the added FA and dust cover. In practicality these two additions are almost useless for civilian use. They were added more or less for looks. I would rather have the 5R rifling and Melonite finish even though the new S&W finish is supposed to be as good. JMHO
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:13 PM
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Yeah that always works. Just bought a Llama 1911. It should be sweet. After all it's been over 100 years.

I wish gun makers were as committed to quality as they should be but that isn't always the case.
Amen to that! Even S&W lets some through QC that shouldn't be sold. I ended up with one of them.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Kodiakco wrote:
Exactly! The design has been refined and proven in the last 60+ years already. Any company making an AR currently has lots of info at their disposal to create an AR with little to no flaws.
Technical information, perhaps.

But it's not simply a lack of technical information that produces flaws in a gun. The employees on a new production line take time to become proficient in their tasks.

If it was merely a question of the availability of technical data, Colt would not have suffered any quality problems in 1985 when it let all of its striking workers go and replaced them with people who had no idea how to built a rifle.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:08 AM
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S&W makes good handguns, but for rifles I always buy COLT.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:17 PM
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Well, if some guy called "Survival Sullivan" says it's the best, who am I to argue?

In my opinion, the entry-level AR has become such a basic and readily-available commodity that it's become hard to find a bad one. I know a guy nicknamed "Cooter" that'll build you one from assorted parts for $425 that'll run right with any other AR you can find.
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:52 PM
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I would say its one of the best cheap entry level models. Which is exactly what the article is saying. But not the best by far.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Pisgah wrote:
Well, if some guy called "Survival Sullivan" says it's the best, who am I to argue?
Quite right.

You'd have to change your name to something like Pisgah the Reaper to have standing to challenge Survival Sullivan!
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:56 PM
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Or "Bob the Nailer"
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:16 PM
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In keeping with my previous post, for purposes of this one I am renaming myself "HD the Decimator" so that I can have standing to talk about Survival Sullivan.

My parents got caught up in the survivalist movement that gripped the country around its bicentennial. I was carted off from a comfortable life in the Florida Gold Coast suburbs to a derelict catfish farm in Arkansas to await the end of the world and the second coming. And then the world didn't end. So, I tend to regard self-described "survivalists" and "doomsday preppers" as lunatics until proven otherwise.

I had never heard of Survival Sullivan before I opened this thread, so I don't know if the guy is on the level or not, but my past history says he's one traffic stop from the looney bin.

But, as things developed, I concluded along with a lot of other people that if Hillary won the election and the Democrats captured even part of the Congress, we might be bidding the AR and fond farewell. I'm old enough and set in my ways enough that I will carry my Mini-14 for the rest of my life, but I wanted ARs for my sons because they are the de-facto standard in America today.

I looked at the "entry-level" ARs (Colt Expanse, Ruger AR556, S&W M&P-15, Bushmaster, etc.) and concluded that the S&W represented the "best bang for the buck" so to speak.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:58 PM
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I agree with hdwhit, the S&W Sport II is/was the best buy out there. It wasn't meant to be 'mil spec' or top tier,but a solid, reliable economical entry level AR style.
It seems more entry level ARs are on the market, but the more they get, the more expensive they become and miss the point.
The Sport hits a home run for the 'entry' market. Come to think of it, it's a pretty good all around AR.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:24 AM
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I tend to regard self-described "survivalists" and "doomsday preppers" as lunatics until proven otherwise.
Ask someone who survived the Great Depression by moving back to the farm about this. Those old time farmers were the real survivalists. They did everything for themselves practically. What they didn't grow or make they traded to get. So it has happened in the past. And if you believe the politicians (who wouldn't believe those guys, eh?) we nearly bought the economic collapse bullet back in 2008 when banks were failing.

My grandmother was one of those back to the farm types who left their jobs in town so they could actually feed their kids. She took it very seriously and even went to college and majored in horticulture (raising and preserving food for those that don't know). She fed her family and mine when I was young. We lived on that farm the first part of my life. It was out in the middle of nowhere way off the pavement but we had good land and enough water even if we had to carry it from the spring on the hill. She made us promise to never sell that farm because it can feed the entire extended family if needed. And we have held onto it because of that. Whether my kids listen to that advice is another question. They haven't seen it done like I did. They don't know how good the food is.

FWIW I don't associate with the survivalist crowd mainly because I know how to do that stuff if needed anyway. It can happen again but I'm not losing sleep worrying about it. I have stocked up on certain things (guns and ammo) just to be ready in case it does happen again. But if it's going to do it in my lifetime it better get to it soon. I haven't needed that farm yet and I'm 61. I don't know how much farming I can do at this point anyway.

BTW her parents and my great grandparents on my mother's side always lived on the farm with no other job. It's hard work but it pays off in ways most people don't know about. You get to be your own boss for one thing but that can be a bad if you make mistakes. My grandmother's family lived on strawberry preserves almost a whole year because they counted on being able to sell them as a cash crop after making good on a smaller strawberry garden the year before. But the local railroad went under and they had no way to get their product to market and they had planted all their land in strawberries so it was either eat that or starve. Mistakes can be painful on the farm. So can drought, flood, fire, disease (livestock can drop like flies), etc. etc. etc.. There's a good reason people moved to the cities. It's an easier and more stable life. But things can go south and we can all be hurting.
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