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  #1  
Old 05-18-2017, 09:29 PM
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bevans555 bevans555 is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Default Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.

I bought my first AR (sport 2) a month ago. I'm hopefully suppose to get to shoot this weekend... I dont get to shoot often because we have no public ranges, so basically only get to go a few times a year when friends with land wanna go. So, because I know that it might be a while before I get to shoot again I went ahead and picked up my first RDS a Vortex Sparc AR today.

I tested the Aimpoint Pro , Sparc AR and Sparc II today. I first looked at the sparc ar and thought it had a fuzzy dot(round just fuzzy). I then tried out the Aimpoint and the dot looked identical( i thought it must be normal for RDS after viewing both), but moving the sight around the store I kept losing the dot... like could not see it at all. Had to give it back to the salesmen to make sure the battery wasnt dead. After going back and forth through the optics the Sparc AR was the best for me. I know Aimpoints are great but I kept losing the dot and when I could see it, it looked identical to the Vortex. The manager and salesman also spoke very highly of the Vortex AR and also felt for my needs it was the right fit.

Once I got it home I temporarily mounted it, as im trying to decide if I should go absolute or lower 1/3 co witness. As I was looking through the RDS out a window, I decided I better grab my RX polarized sunglasses because everything past 15 yards is fuzzy without glasses to me. I put them on and BAM!, theres that crisp, bright, perfect red dot I've heard so many talk about. After researching why is it clear only with RX polarized sunglasses, I read its due to an astigmatism. This sucks!

I thought maybe I can return the RDS for a prismatic optic, but the store receipt clearly says NO RETURNS ON OPTICS. The optic is great, my eyes suck, the return policy sucks... but im so happy I didnt buy the Aimpoint.

I wonder if Vortex would let me exchange it? Anyone have experience with their CS?

Last edited by bevans555; 05-18-2017 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:36 PM
Racer X Racer X is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Lots of people return red dot sights because of blurry dots. The vast majority are fine. You can still have 20/20 vision and have an astigmatism.
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:43 PM
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bevans555 bevans555 is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
Lots of people return red dot sights because of blurry dots. The vast majority are fine. You can still have 20/20 vision and have an astigmatism.
return where? To Vortex?

My LGS wont accept returns or exchanges on optics.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:09 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
return where? To Vortex?

My LGS wont accept returns or exchanges on optics.
You need to find a new LGS then... impossible to judge an optics performance inside a store.
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:28 PM
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bevans555 bevans555 is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
You need to find a new LGS then... impossible to judge an optics performance inside a store.
TRUTH!

You would think in a military town, there would be numerous LGS, ranges, etc... but we have 2 crooked pawn/gun shops that i want even walk in, a crooked gun shop whos owner just got busted for numerous class 3 violations including trying to sell a non registered 20mm anti tank gun that he stole from another state on social media(he's going to the pokey), and then the place I went to, that hires former military, and appeared to be pleasant and helpful.

Live and Learn.... maybe i can recoup 60% of my money on CL or something.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:14 AM
msauter msauter is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Have you tried adjusting the brightness? Sometimes lowering the brightness can clear it up. Also, if you have the rear peep mounted try looking through the peep, sometimes that is enough to make the dot look crisp and clear (pinhole effect).
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:28 AM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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The simple solution is to purchase some Prescription Shooting Glasses. You shouldn't EVER shoot without eye protection and if you want to shoot with iron sights or a reflex sights seeing the sights clearly is a real advantage if you are shooting for precision. BTW, even a scope won't correct for Astigmatism, all it will so is provide for more magnification and when your eyes get tired you won't be able to see the reticle. Take it from an old fart who has learned these lessons with EXPERIENCE.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:35 AM
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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You don't need that "crisp, bright, perfect red dot" for the sight to be effective, focus on the target not the dot like you should and you will hit the target.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:55 AM
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bevans555 bevans555 is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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---Have you tried adjusting the brightness? Sometimes lowering the brightness can clear it up. Also, if you have the rear peep mounted try looking through the peep, sometimes that is enough to make the dot look crisp and clear (pinhole effect).---


Yes, the brightness doesnt affect anything but looking through the rear sight does counteract the starburst affect.... but whats the pint in a RDS if i still have to look through the rear sight? Thanks for the recommendation though.

The simple solution is to purchase some Prescription Shooting Glasses. You shouldn't EVER shoot without eye protection and if you want to shoot with iron sights or a reflex sights seeing the sights clearly is a real advantage if you are shooting for precision. BTW, even a scope won't correct for Astigmatism, all it will so is provide for more magnification and when your eyes get tired you won't be able to see the reticle. Take it from an old fart who has learned these lessons with EXPERIENCE.

Thank you, and yes If I wear my RX polarized sunglasses everything is fine. Its just my personal preference that I dont want to have to be wearing a particular pair of glasses to be able to fully use my sight. Also, prismatic scopes with etched reticles are suppose to work without distortion for people with an astigmatism. Apparenlty its the eye that cant properly compute the light from the red dot.. Also my cheap 4x32 scope on my 10/22 works perfect, with no distortion.


You don't need that "crisp, bright, perfect red dot" for the sight to be effective, focus on the target not the dot like you should and you will hit the target

Yes, I do... The problem isnt that the dot just looks blurry.. the supposed to be 2moa dot is huge. I can aim at my target 10 yards away and the dot cover a 3-4inch area.. When I aim my neighbors house, focusing on the house wall, the dot covers half the wall. You cant hit what you cant see.. and at 50 yards I couldnt see half a wall, no way I could see normal sie target.



Thanks for all the replies and info but bottom line is this is not going to work for me.. If I have to wear my glasses everytime I shoot id rather use iron sights or try a prism scope.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:05 PM
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ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
As I was looking through the RDS out a window, I decided I better grab my RX polarized sunglasses because everything past 15 yards is fuzzy without glasses to me. I put them on and BAM!, theres that crisp, bright, perfect red dot I've heard so many talk about. After researching why is it clear only with RX polarized sunglasses, I read its due to an astigmatism. This sucks!
Yep, same story here. But I wear my prescription distance glasses all the time, including while I shoot. Why wouldn't you? Were you planning on shooting long guns without your glasses and not being able to clearly see downfield?

For you guys wondering if it's the dot or your eyes.... The dot probably looks like a cluster of grapes, a smear or a comet with a short tail or two. Hold the optic in your hand and while looking through it rotate it in your hand. If the cluster of grapes and all the rest doesn't rotate with the optic then your eyes are the problem.

Generally, 99% of the time it will be your eyes and not the optic. Even the cheapest of my red dots under a camera is perfectly round.

ps. SPARC AR + ten 30rd Magpul PMAGS is at Palmetto for $199. Free shipping.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 05-19-2017 at 12:11 PM.
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:38 PM
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bevans555 bevans555 is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Yep, same story here. But I wear my prescription distance glasses all the time, including while I shoot. Why wouldn't you? Were you planning on shooting long guns without your glasses and not being able to clearly see downfield?


I wear my RX sunglasses everytime I step outside, I dont wear my regular eyeglasses becuase they dont fit properly and are constantly unlevel and sliding, and Ive been back 3 times to lenscrafters alredy to have them fix them.

Also as I mentioned I dont have a public range to go to so this rifle purchase was never meant to be a long range rifle.

I just wanted something fun to shoot and if ever there was a SHTF/crisis it would fill that role.. Now, i hate using "SHTF" because im not a prepper or survivalist( not anything against it) but I wanted this to be able to handle up close to medium range. I feel like if there ever was a SHTF moment and I needed that rifle it would be useless if I lost or broke my sunglasses. If I had planned on using this for 100 yards and further I would have bought a scope to begin with.

But , im open to any suggestions but I honestly feel like if you guys could see what I see it would be unacceptable and you would start looking for an optic that works for you, instead of keeping an optic that you have to work for.
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  #12  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:42 PM
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ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
I wear my RX sunglasses everytime I step outside, I dont wear my regular eyeglasses becuase they dont fit properly and are constantly unlevel and sliding, and Ive been back 3 times to lenscrafters alredy to have them fix them.

Also as I mentioned I dont have a public range to go to so this rifle purchase was never meant to be a long range rifle.

I just wanted something fun to shoot and if ever there was a SHTF/crisis it would fill that role.. Now, i hate using "SHTF" because im not a prepper or survivalist( not anything against it) but I wanted this to be able to handle up close to medium range. I feel like if there ever was a SHTF moment and I needed that rifle it would be useless if I lost or broke my sunglasses. If I had planned on using this for 100 yards and further I would have bought a scope to begin with.

But , im open to any suggestions but I honestly feel like if you guys could see what I see it would be unacceptable and you would start looking for an optic that works for you, instead of keeping an optic that you have to work for.
I doubt your red dot looks worse than the cluster of grapes that all of mine do without my prescription glasses. But if you are determined not to wear your glasses you've got a few options.

-- Look at red dot optic with a 5MOA dot. It will likely look a lot better. And for the distances you mention, a 5MOA dot is well suited.

-- Vortex Spitfire AR Prism Sight 1x. Should look good to your eyes but you won't be able to co-witenss with your irons like you can with the SPARC you have..

-- Choose a variable 1-4x scope. Won't be able to co-witness.

-- Chose a low power fixed magnification compact scope. Won't be able to co-witnss.

-- Forget using an optic.

-- Rethink using your glasses.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 05-19-2017 at 01:46 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2017, 05:33 PM
Racer X Racer X is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
You don't need that "crisp, bright, perfect red dot" for the sight to be effective, focus on the target not the dot like you should and you will hit the target.
Up until recently, I shot with safety glasses and soft contacts. My contacts weren't corrected for my astigmatism, but the aberration wasn't that bad. My red dot was fuzzy but fairly uniform in shape, so the center was pretty much in the center. No big deal. More of a "cosmetic" issue.

FAQ's

"Why isn't my dot round or why is it fuzzy?

This usually indicates an astigmatism problem. Even with 20/20 vision, you may still have an astigmatism. Glasses will also cause problems with the dots clarity and shape. Try different powered glasses to determine if this is what is causing imaging problems. Incorrect brightness settings will also cause the dot to flare. Always start with the lowest brightnest setting first and then turn up until you reach the desired level of brightness and a clear shape. If it starts to distort, turn the knob back down.
Please bear in mind, multiple dots, poor dot clarity or irregular shaped dots are rarely caused by the sight itself. The majority of issues of this nature are caused by: Poor user vision, glasses, readers, bifocals, trifocals or incorrect brightness settings. The dot is formed by an LED shining through an aperture onto a mirror, the mirror passes everything but the red light. There are no wearing parts that would change the dot. "
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:27 PM
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msauter View Post
Have you tried adjusting the brightness? Sometimes lowering the brightness can clear it up. Also, if you have the rear peep mounted try looking through the peep, sometimes that is enough to make the dot look crisp and clear (pinhole effect).
That is exactly what helped me, looking through the peep hole on the rear sight, which cured the problem.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:33 PM
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Rethink using your glasses.

Here is the correct answer.
Even if you had perfect eyes you still need
to use glasses for safety reasons.
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:31 PM
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bevans555 bevans555 is offline
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I agree about the safety issues and I do wear safety glasses and hearing protection when I shoot for recreation, Always.

I'm new to wearing RX glasses and the point that I guess im trying to express is that, while I dont have a problem wearing my rx glasses while shooting for recreation. I do not want to be dependent on them for the use of my optic if I was having to use my rifle for non recreational purposes.

I went to shoot today with my rx glasses on and ear plug with ear muffs and started zeroing in my irons at 50 yards with a target that was a 12" orange circle with a 1" green bullseye. Even with Rx glasses I could not see any green at all(maybe thats normal, I'm not sure). The target was basically a small orange blur. I kept all shots in the orange but had difficulty finding the center, basically danced all around it but never hit green. Within 25 minutes of shooting it started raining, right as I was mounting the red dot. Lightning came before I got to test it which forced us to leave, so I still have not shot with the red dot. But while looking at the target without glasses through the optic the dot was the size of the the target. It was not a fun day... and the whole time I was zeroing in the irons looking at that orange blur 50 yards away, all I could think of was I wish I had some magnification.... especially as I tried to see the targets at the 100 yard mark.

I know red dots arent for precision, and maybe I should be happy that all shots hit the target at 50 yards the first time using this platform and with these type of iron sights... but theres no way I could consistently hit targets with irons at 100-200 yards... And it sucked knowing that my 1972 stock 10/22 with a cheap tasco 4x32 scope on it could consistently shoot 3-4 inch groups at that distance.

I'm leaning hard towards some magnification... im thinking 1-4 or 1-6 variable power will be how I go.. and this will be bumped to a range rifle, and one of my shotguns will again take over for cqb if ever the need arises.

Last edited by bevans555; 05-20-2017 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:51 AM
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Leupold VXR Patrol 1.25-4x with FireDot reticle might meet your needs for magnification and CQB.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:19 PM
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
return where? To Vortex?

My LGS wont accept returns or exchanges on optics.
Yes, to Vortex.

Vortex has some of the best customer service out there. Call them up and explain your situation. Tell them the place you bought it won't let you return it. Also, ask for advice on how to deal with your astigmatism. They are a great bunch of guys and will help you.

I'll be stunned if they don't let you send it to them for a swap.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:20 PM
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
I went to shoot today with my rx glasses on and ear plug with ear muffs and started zeroing in my irons at 50 yards with a target that was a 12" orange circle with a 1" green bullseye.
A 2MOA dot will completely cover a 1" circle at 50 yards. Sounds like you've got the right sight picture.
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Old Yesterday, 12:50 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Quote:
Racer X wrote:
You can still have 20/20 vision and have an astigmatism.
That's my problem. The far-sightedness that people develop when they age (i.e. presbyopia) canceled out my nearsightedness almost perfectly, so I'm 20/20 but with a pronounced astigmatism, so I still wear glassses.
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Old Yesterday, 10:10 PM
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bevans555 bevans555 is offline
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Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Yes, to Vortex.

Vortex has some of the best customer service out there. Call them up and explain your situation. Tell them the place you bought it won't let you return it. Also, ask for advice on how to deal with your astigmatism. They are a great bunch of guys and will help you.

I'll be stunned if they don't let you send it to them for a swap.


I actually emailed them on Friday and explained my situation to them and asked if they had any type of exchange program. Today, I heard back from them and they said they normally dont exchange, but due to my situation they would. I was told to send it to them with a copy of the receipt along with a note stating which optic I would like to exchange for and my full mailing address. I dropped it in the mail today and will hopefully be receiving a Strike Eagle 1-6x24 soon. They recommended an optic with etched reticle like the spitfire AR or Strike Eagle. The strike eagle has an etched reticle that should eliminate the astigmatism problem, the option for magnification and I love the reticle and after watching the 3 gun guys use these, I think it will fit my needs perfectly.

They are going to call me once they receive the Sparc and I can pay the difference over the phone. They did not tell me the price. I just hope their price on the strike eagle is comparable to what brownells sells them for(on sale now with pepr mount for $350) and not the MSRP ($450 w/o mount).

Vortex customer service truly is top notch! If they do me right on the price difference, I will be a lifetime Vortex customer.

Last edited by bevans555; Yesterday at 10:16 PM.
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