Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-18-2017, 09:29 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.

I bought my first AR (sport 2) a month ago. I'm hopefully suppose to get to shoot this weekend... I dont get to shoot often because we have no public ranges, so basically only get to go a few times a year when friends with land wanna go. So, because I know that it might be a while before I get to shoot again I went ahead and picked up my first RDS a Vortex Sparc AR today.

I tested the Aimpoint Pro , Sparc AR and Sparc II today. I first looked at the sparc ar and thought it had a fuzzy dot(round just fuzzy). I then tried out the Aimpoint and the dot looked identical( i thought it must be normal for RDS after viewing both), but moving the sight around the store I kept losing the dot... like could not see it at all. Had to give it back to the salesmen to make sure the battery wasnt dead. After going back and forth through the optics the Sparc AR was the best for me. I know Aimpoints are great but I kept losing the dot and when I could see it, it looked identical to the Vortex. The manager and salesman also spoke very highly of the Vortex AR and also felt for my needs it was the right fit.

Once I got it home I temporarily mounted it, as im trying to decide if I should go absolute or lower 1/3 co witness. As I was looking through the RDS out a window, I decided I better grab my RX polarized sunglasses because everything past 15 yards is fuzzy without glasses to me. I put them on and BAM!, theres that crisp, bright, perfect red dot I've heard so many talk about. After researching why is it clear only with RX polarized sunglasses, I read its due to an astigmatism. This sucks!

I thought maybe I can return the RDS for a prismatic optic, but the store receipt clearly says NO RETURNS ON OPTICS. The optic is great, my eyes suck, the return policy sucks... but im so happy I didnt buy the Aimpoint.

I wonder if Vortex would let me exchange it? Anyone have experience with their CS?

Last edited by bevans555; 05-18-2017 at 09:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:36 PM
Racer X Racer X is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 575
Likes: 27
Liked 156 Times in 87 Posts
Default

Lots of people return red dot sights because of blurry dots. The vast majority are fine. You can still have 20/20 vision and have an astigmatism.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:43 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
Lots of people return red dot sights because of blurry dots. The vast majority are fine. You can still have 20/20 vision and have an astigmatism.
return where? To Vortex?

My LGS wont accept returns or exchanges on optics.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:09 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
US Veteran
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 4,052
Likes: 894
Liked 3,071 Times in 1,690 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
return where? To Vortex?

My LGS wont accept returns or exchanges on optics.
You need to find a new LGS then... impossible to judge an optics performance inside a store.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:28 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
You need to find a new LGS then... impossible to judge an optics performance inside a store.
TRUTH!

You would think in a military town, there would be numerous LGS, ranges, etc... but we have 2 crooked pawn/gun shops that i want even walk in, a crooked gun shop whos owner just got busted for numerous class 3 violations including trying to sell a non registered 20mm anti tank gun that he stole from another state on social media(he's going to the pokey), and then the place I went to, that hires former military, and appeared to be pleasant and helpful.

Live and Learn.... maybe i can recoup 60% of my money on CL or something.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:14 AM
msauter msauter is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 56
Likes: 5
Liked 81 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Have you tried adjusting the brightness? Sometimes lowering the brightness can clear it up. Also, if you have the rear peep mounted try looking through the peep, sometimes that is enough to make the dot look crisp and clear (pinhole effect).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:28 AM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 6,135
Likes: 143
Liked 3,062 Times in 1,589 Posts
Default

The simple solution is to purchase some Prescription Shooting Glasses. You shouldn't EVER shoot without eye protection and if you want to shoot with iron sights or a reflex sights seeing the sights clearly is a real advantage if you are shooting for precision. BTW, even a scope won't correct for Astigmatism, all it will so is provide for more magnification and when your eyes get tired you won't be able to see the reticle. Take it from an old fart who has learned these lessons with EXPERIENCE.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:35 AM
Mack's Avatar
Mack Mack is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 15
Liked 197 Times in 116 Posts
Default

You don't need that "crisp, bright, perfect red dot" for the sight to be effective, focus on the target not the dot like you should and you will hit the target.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:55 AM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

---Have you tried adjusting the brightness? Sometimes lowering the brightness can clear it up. Also, if you have the rear peep mounted try looking through the peep, sometimes that is enough to make the dot look crisp and clear (pinhole effect).---


Yes, the brightness doesnt affect anything but looking through the rear sight does counteract the starburst affect.... but whats the pint in a RDS if i still have to look through the rear sight? Thanks for the recommendation though.

The simple solution is to purchase some Prescription Shooting Glasses. You shouldn't EVER shoot without eye protection and if you want to shoot with iron sights or a reflex sights seeing the sights clearly is a real advantage if you are shooting for precision. BTW, even a scope won't correct for Astigmatism, all it will so is provide for more magnification and when your eyes get tired you won't be able to see the reticle. Take it from an old fart who has learned these lessons with EXPERIENCE.

Thank you, and yes If I wear my RX polarized sunglasses everything is fine. Its just my personal preference that I dont want to have to be wearing a particular pair of glasses to be able to fully use my sight. Also, prismatic scopes with etched reticles are suppose to work without distortion for people with an astigmatism. Apparenlty its the eye that cant properly compute the light from the red dot.. Also my cheap 4x32 scope on my 10/22 works perfect, with no distortion.


You don't need that "crisp, bright, perfect red dot" for the sight to be effective, focus on the target not the dot like you should and you will hit the target

Yes, I do... The problem isnt that the dot just looks blurry.. the supposed to be 2moa dot is huge. I can aim at my target 10 yards away and the dot cover a 3-4inch area.. When I aim my neighbors house, focusing on the house wall, the dot covers half the wall. You cant hit what you cant see.. and at 50 yards I couldnt see half a wall, no way I could see normal sie target.



Thanks for all the replies and info but bottom line is this is not going to work for me.. If I have to wear my glasses everytime I shoot id rather use iron sights or try a prism scope.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:05 PM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,265
Likes: 7,386
Liked 19,095 Times in 5,623 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
As I was looking through the RDS out a window, I decided I better grab my RX polarized sunglasses because everything past 15 yards is fuzzy without glasses to me. I put them on and BAM!, theres that crisp, bright, perfect red dot I've heard so many talk about. After researching why is it clear only with RX polarized sunglasses, I read its due to an astigmatism. This sucks!
Yep, same story here. But I wear my prescription distance glasses all the time, including while I shoot. Why wouldn't you? Were you planning on shooting long guns without your glasses and not being able to clearly see downfield?

For you guys wondering if it's the dot or your eyes.... The dot probably looks like a cluster of grapes, a smear or a comet with a short tail or two. Hold the optic in your hand and while looking through it rotate it in your hand. If the cluster of grapes and all the rest doesn't rotate with the optic then your eyes are the problem.

Generally, 99% of the time it will be your eyes and not the optic. Even the cheapest of my red dots under a camera is perfectly round.

ps. SPARC AR + ten 30rd Magpul PMAGS is at Palmetto for $199. Free shipping.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 05-19-2017 at 12:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:38 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Yep, same story here. But I wear my prescription distance glasses all the time, including while I shoot. Why wouldn't you? Were you planning on shooting long guns without your glasses and not being able to clearly see downfield?


I wear my RX sunglasses everytime I step outside, I dont wear my regular eyeglasses becuase they dont fit properly and are constantly unlevel and sliding, and Ive been back 3 times to lenscrafters alredy to have them fix them.

Also as I mentioned I dont have a public range to go to so this rifle purchase was never meant to be a long range rifle.

I just wanted something fun to shoot and if ever there was a SHTF/crisis it would fill that role.. Now, i hate using "SHTF" because im not a prepper or survivalist( not anything against it) but I wanted this to be able to handle up close to medium range. I feel like if there ever was a SHTF moment and I needed that rifle it would be useless if I lost or broke my sunglasses. If I had planned on using this for 100 yards and further I would have bought a scope to begin with.

But , im open to any suggestions but I honestly feel like if you guys could see what I see it would be unacceptable and you would start looking for an optic that works for you, instead of keeping an optic that you have to work for.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:42 PM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,265
Likes: 7,386
Liked 19,095 Times in 5,623 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
I wear my RX sunglasses everytime I step outside, I dont wear my regular eyeglasses becuase they dont fit properly and are constantly unlevel and sliding, and Ive been back 3 times to lenscrafters alredy to have them fix them.

Also as I mentioned I dont have a public range to go to so this rifle purchase was never meant to be a long range rifle.

I just wanted something fun to shoot and if ever there was a SHTF/crisis it would fill that role.. Now, i hate using "SHTF" because im not a prepper or survivalist( not anything against it) but I wanted this to be able to handle up close to medium range. I feel like if there ever was a SHTF moment and I needed that rifle it would be useless if I lost or broke my sunglasses. If I had planned on using this for 100 yards and further I would have bought a scope to begin with.

But , im open to any suggestions but I honestly feel like if you guys could see what I see it would be unacceptable and you would start looking for an optic that works for you, instead of keeping an optic that you have to work for.
I doubt your red dot looks worse than the cluster of grapes that all of mine do without my prescription glasses. But if you are determined not to wear your glasses you've got a few options.

-- Look at red dot optic with a 5MOA dot. It will likely look a lot better. And for the distances you mention, a 5MOA dot is well suited.

-- Vortex Spitfire AR Prism Sight 1x. Should look good to your eyes but you won't be able to co-witenss with your irons like you can with the SPARC you have..

-- Choose a variable 1-4x scope. Won't be able to co-witness.

-- Chose a low power fixed magnification compact scope. Won't be able to co-witnss.

-- Forget using an optic.

-- Rethink using your glasses.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 05-19-2017 at 01:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 05-19-2017, 05:33 PM
Racer X Racer X is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 575
Likes: 27
Liked 156 Times in 87 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
You don't need that "crisp, bright, perfect red dot" for the sight to be effective, focus on the target not the dot like you should and you will hit the target.
Up until recently, I shot with safety glasses and soft contacts. My contacts weren't corrected for my astigmatism, but the aberration wasn't that bad. My red dot was fuzzy but fairly uniform in shape, so the center was pretty much in the center. No big deal. More of a "cosmetic" issue.

FAQ's

"Why isn't my dot round or why is it fuzzy?

This usually indicates an astigmatism problem. Even with 20/20 vision, you may still have an astigmatism. Glasses will also cause problems with the dots clarity and shape. Try different powered glasses to determine if this is what is causing imaging problems. Incorrect brightness settings will also cause the dot to flare. Always start with the lowest brightnest setting first and then turn up until you reach the desired level of brightness and a clear shape. If it starts to distort, turn the knob back down.
Please bear in mind, multiple dots, poor dot clarity or irregular shaped dots are rarely caused by the sight itself. The majority of issues of this nature are caused by: Poor user vision, glasses, readers, bifocals, trifocals or incorrect brightness settings. The dot is formed by an LED shining through an aperture onto a mirror, the mirror passes everything but the red light. There are no wearing parts that would change the dot. "
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:27 PM
Plazzman's Avatar
Plazzman Plazzman is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Northern, MO
Posts: 197
Likes: 210
Liked 80 Times in 54 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msauter View Post
Have you tried adjusting the brightness? Sometimes lowering the brightness can clear it up. Also, if you have the rear peep mounted try looking through the peep, sometimes that is enough to make the dot look crisp and clear (pinhole effect).
That is exactly what helped me, looking through the peep hole on the rear sight, which cured the problem.
__________________
NRA member since 1974
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:33 PM
REM 3200's Avatar
REM 3200 REM 3200 is offline
US Veteran
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posts: 1,104
Likes: 1,934
Liked 1,201 Times in 475 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Rethink using your glasses.

Here is the correct answer.
Even if you had perfect eyes you still need
to use glasses for safety reasons.
__________________
CSM, US Army(Ret), 1963-1990
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 05-20-2017, 04:31 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

I agree about the safety issues and I do wear safety glasses and hearing protection when I shoot for recreation, Always.

I'm new to wearing RX glasses and the point that I guess im trying to express is that, while I dont have a problem wearing my rx glasses while shooting for recreation. I do not want to be dependent on them for the use of my optic if I was having to use my rifle for non recreational purposes.

I went to shoot today with my rx glasses on and ear plug with ear muffs and started zeroing in my irons at 50 yards with a target that was a 12" orange circle with a 1" green bullseye. Even with Rx glasses I could not see any green at all(maybe thats normal, I'm not sure). The target was basically a small orange blur. I kept all shots in the orange but had difficulty finding the center, basically danced all around it but never hit green. Within 25 minutes of shooting it started raining, right as I was mounting the red dot. Lightning came before I got to test it which forced us to leave, so I still have not shot with the red dot. But while looking at the target without glasses through the optic the dot was the size of the the target. It was not a fun day... and the whole time I was zeroing in the irons looking at that orange blur 50 yards away, all I could think of was I wish I had some magnification.... especially as I tried to see the targets at the 100 yard mark.

I know red dots arent for precision, and maybe I should be happy that all shots hit the target at 50 yards the first time using this platform and with these type of iron sights... but theres no way I could consistently hit targets with irons at 100-200 yards... And it sucked knowing that my 1972 stock 10/22 with a cheap tasco 4x32 scope on it could consistently shoot 3-4 inch groups at that distance.

I'm leaning hard towards some magnification... im thinking 1-4 or 1-6 variable power will be how I go.. and this will be bumped to a range rifle, and one of my shotguns will again take over for cqb if ever the need arises.

Last edited by bevans555; 05-20-2017 at 04:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:51 AM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,265
Likes: 7,386
Liked 19,095 Times in 5,623 Posts
Default

Leupold VXR Patrol 1.25-4x with FireDot reticle might meet your needs for magnification and CQB.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:19 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,695
Likes: 1,736
Liked 10,893 Times in 4,471 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
return where? To Vortex?

My LGS wont accept returns or exchanges on optics.
Yes, to Vortex.

Vortex has some of the best customer service out there. Call them up and explain your situation. Tell them the place you bought it won't let you return it. Also, ask for advice on how to deal with your astigmatism. They are a great bunch of guys and will help you.

I'll be stunned if they don't let you send it to them for a swap.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:20 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,695
Likes: 1,736
Liked 10,893 Times in 4,471 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
I went to shoot today with my rx glasses on and ear plug with ear muffs and started zeroing in my irons at 50 yards with a target that was a 12" orange circle with a 1" green bullseye.
A 2MOA dot will completely cover a 1" circle at 50 yards. Sounds like you've got the right sight picture.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 05-22-2017, 12:50 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Texas
Posts: 561
Likes: 27
Liked 317 Times in 197 Posts
Default

Quote:
Racer X wrote:
You can still have 20/20 vision and have an astigmatism.
That's my problem. The far-sightedness that people develop when they age (i.e. presbyopia) canceled out my nearsightedness almost perfectly, so I'm 20/20 but with a pronounced astigmatism, so I still wear glassses.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-22-2017, 10:10 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Yes, to Vortex.

Vortex has some of the best customer service out there. Call them up and explain your situation. Tell them the place you bought it won't let you return it. Also, ask for advice on how to deal with your astigmatism. They are a great bunch of guys and will help you.

I'll be stunned if they don't let you send it to them for a swap.


I actually emailed them on Friday and explained my situation to them and asked if they had any type of exchange program. Today, I heard back from them and they said they normally dont exchange, but due to my situation they would. I was told to send it to them with a copy of the receipt along with a note stating which optic I would like to exchange for and my full mailing address. I dropped it in the mail today and will hopefully be receiving a Strike Eagle 1-6x24 soon. They recommended an optic with etched reticle like the spitfire AR or Strike Eagle. The strike eagle has an etched reticle that should eliminate the astigmatism problem, the option for magnification and I love the reticle and after watching the 3 gun guys use these, I think it will fit my needs perfectly.

They are going to call me once they receive the Sparc and I can pay the difference over the phone. They did not tell me the price. I just hope their price on the strike eagle is comparable to what brownells sells them for(on sale now with pepr mount for $350) and not the MSRP ($450 w/o mount).

Vortex customer service truly is top notch! If they do me right on the price difference, I will be a lifetime Vortex customer.

Last edited by bevans555; 05-22-2017 at 10:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #22  
Old 05-23-2017, 07:29 AM
vonn's Avatar
vonn vonn is online now
US Veteran
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: houston,texas
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 75,109
Liked 17,115 Times in 3,904 Posts
Default

That sounds like awesome customer service! Keep us updated please.
__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #23  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:31 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Update:

Vortex contacted me today and said they received my red dot and were ready to send out the strike eagle, however after talking to the tech department trying to figure out if the fixed front sight would block the reticle at the 1x setting , I couldn't get a definite answer. So, I switched my replacement to the Spitfire AR, it's a 1x, with etched reticle, and illumination, lighter weight and comes with a mount. I've read many positive reviews about this optic since Kim at Vortex originally recommended the spitfire ar to me, and I think it's going to work out great And allows me to stick with the original plan/use for my AR.

I am still interested in the Strike Eagle, so I can see myself in the near future either picking up a bolt rifle or building a long range AR to use with the Strike Eagle.

As a bonus Vortex is also sending me a Tshirt. I'm sure I'll start a thread after I get some trigger time with the spitfire but I have to say Vortex customer service is absolutely awesome!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:07 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
US Veteran
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,732
Likes: 762
Liked 1,320 Times in 677 Posts
Default

The problem isn't the Red Dot .. its you not wearing your glasses because you can't get a proper fit .. I really feel for you because I have had that happen several times in my 30 plus years of wearing glasses ..

Next time try Costco .. good price and frames that will stay put and won't get bent out of shape because of the double hinge design of the eye pieces ..

I have the same problem along with dry eyes which keep me from wearing contacts .. so I have glasses that change to sun glass when outside .. so the red dot is crisp looking with my glasses but a blob when not wearing them ..

Get your glasses fixed or a new pair and keep the Red Dot !!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:55 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
The problem isn't the Red Dot .. its you not wearing your glasses because you can't get a proper fit .. I really feel for you because I have had that happen several times in my 30 plus years of wearing glasses ..
Thank you for your concern and I agree the red dot was fine mechanically, it was my eye that was the problem. I'm happy for you if red dots work for you with glasses, but I didnt feel comfortable with mine, even with my RX sunglasses that do fit properly.... its my regular rx eyeglasses(not sunglasses) that dont fit properly.

I did go out and use the red dot with my sunglasses and didnt care for it. My sunglasses kept fogging, constantly having to alternate between wearing glasses and then taking them off to use my bioculars to check POI, it was just not enjoyable.

Also , I prefer certain features on prism scopes over red dots, specifically the etched reticle and not having to rely on batteries. I will continue to shoot with my rx glasses, but I like knowing that if they should break or I lose/forget them. I can still use my optic. The same with the battery, people always want the longest battery life they can get, etched reticles you can continue to use with a dead battery. But the particular optic's reticle i'll be receiving has a nice dot with 2 rings around it, according to user reviews and youtube videos people with astigmatism are claiming they much prefer a prism scope over a red dot and target acquisition is about the same. I know there is no 1 optic that is perfect for everyone....

Have you tried a prism scope with etched reticle? If not, you might find that you like it more. You'll never know what you actually like best till you try them all. I'm sure you already know this but just in case here is some info regarding astigmatism and red dots aand prism scopes.

Red Dot Sights:
The reason an astigmatism is problematic for shooters who use red dot sights is because the dot is created with a collimating minating mirror. In a normal eye, those beams of light all have one focal point However in an astigmatic eye, those beams of light are refracted into multiple multiple focal points. The result is a blurry, distorted or “bursting” dot.


Polarized glasses and the tiny hole in the BUIS help to sharpen the dot because both devices restrict the light rays entering your eye to only those that are both direct and parallel with the other light rays, eliminating reflections and some of the additional focal points.


Prismatic Optics:
Prismatic-based optics, on the other hand function more like traditional optics (like binoculars or rifle scopes), using lenses and etched glass to produce their reticles. Because of the lack of collimator or mirrors, most shooters with astigmatisms report less aberrations as compared to RDS or HWS systems. One side benefit is that since the reticle is etched in glass, rather than an image that is projected upon it, if a users batteries die or the electronics otherwise fail, most reticles revert to black.

Anyway, different strokes for different folks... thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-24-2017, 05:47 PM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,265
Likes: 7,386
Liked 19,095 Times in 5,623 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post

Vortex contacted me today and said they received my red dot and were ready to send out the strike eagle, however after talking to the tech department trying to figure out if the fixed front sight would block the reticle at the 1x setting , I couldn't get a definite answer. So, I switched my replacement to the Spitfire AR, it's a 1x, with etched reticle, and illumination, lighter weight and comes with a mount. I've read many positive reviews about this optic since Kim at Vortex originally recommended the spitfire ar to me, and I think it's going to work out great And allows me to stick with the original plan/use for my AR.
Your A2 front sight is going to be in the sight picture with the Spitfire AR just the same. Beware, the Spitfire does not co-witness well with irons because it's a prismatic design and not a 1x reflex design. "Well...today I talked to Vortex technical person who was servicing my Spitfire 1X prism scope and he claims it was not defective. We talked again about the co-witnessing issue and two different zeroes and he said that, because this is a prism scope, it should not be used at the same time with iron sights, because of the potential distortion of the front sight". Read post #51 and beyond. Co-Witnessing Sights Issue

With the Strike Eagle the front sight would have disappeared after 2x magnification. And with the Strike Eagle you would be able to use the focus to see everything sharp downfield without wearing your glasses. It's a shame the Vortex guys could not have explained this.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-24-2017, 05:47 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,695
Likes: 1,736
Liked 10,893 Times in 4,471 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
So, I switched my replacement to the Spitfire AR, it's a 1x, with etched reticle, and illumination, lighter weight and comes with a mount.
I would've recommended sticking with the Strike Eagle. It will still be an issue with the Spitfire. The front sight is easily changed out though.

I'm not surprised that they made this happen for you. Vortex does have fantastic service.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 05-24-2017, 06:20 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Your A2 front sight is going to be in the sight picture with the Spitfire AR just the same. Beware, the Spitfire does not co-witness well with irons because it's a prismatic design and not a 1x reflex design. "Well...today I talked to Vortex technical person who was servicing my Spitfire 1X prism scope and he claims it was not defective. We talked again about the co-witnessing issue and two different zeroes and he said that, because this is a prism scope, it should not be used at the same time with iron sights, because of the potential distortion of the front sight". Read post #51 and beyond. Co-Witnessing Sights Issue

With the Strike Eagle the front sight would have disappeared after 2x magnification. And with the Strike Eagle you would be able to use the focus to see everything sharp downfield without wearing your glasses. It's a shame the Vortex guys could not have explained this.

Just to be clear Im 100% happy with my decision on the Spitfire AR

yea, i saw some videos of guys with the strike eagle and the sport 2 and the front sight was just under the reticle at 1x, similar to a red dot sight picture. I also saw some other images where the fixed front sight encroached on the reticle. I was aware that after 3x the front sight would fade out and not be visible.

I also was on the fence about the strike eagle or spitfire AR. If I had a nice 18" or 20" precision AR with flip up front sight instead of a carbine length, fixed front sight, sport 2 budget rifle. I would have definitely got the strike eagle because its definitely a nicer optic.

However, some of my reasons for going with the Spitfire AR over the strike eagle are that I originally wanted my AR for CQB/shtf/plinking. The spitfire will handle that equally as well if not better. As far as cowitnessing, if the battery dies the reticle is still there... now if the optic was destroyed a QD mount is avaiable, but I would have bigger problems if I was doing something to completely destroy an optic.Also I would of had to pay $140 for exchange plus still buy a mount ($90), and not be 100% sure if the reticle was going to be impeded with the Strike Eagle. The Spitfire is 1x and still has an illuminated "dot" with a larger ring around it, so its similar to a red dot like my original plan, but will work better for my eyes. Also the strike eagle with mount weighs 1.5 lbs, whereas the spitfire with mount is 11oz, this will help as I still intend to add a flashlight.

Bottom line, im not locked into an optic for life. I still plan on getting a variable power scope like the strike eagle or pst viper, I just want them for a different rifle built more for precision. This also gives me a reason to purchase a new rifle and scope which is never a bad thing.

Last edited by bevans555; 05-24-2017 at 07:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-24-2017, 07:47 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,695
Likes: 1,736
Liked 10,893 Times in 4,471 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevans555 View Post
This also gives me a reason to purchase a new rifle and scope which is never a bad thing.
That is always a good thing.

However, I still recommend replacing the front sight. If you're at all like me, the front sight will bug you by being in your vision through the optic.

EDIT: Here is a good one- YANKEE HILL MACHINE CO., INC. AR-15 GAS BLOCK FRONT SIGHT | Brownells
__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Last edited by Rastoff; 05-24-2017 at 07:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #30  
Old 05-24-2017, 09:14 PM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
That is always a good thing.

However, I still recommend replacing the front sight. If you're at all like me, the front sight will bug you by being in your vision through the optic.

EDIT: Here is a good one- YANKEE HILL MACHINE CO., INC. AR-15 GAS BLOCK FRONT SIGHT | Brownells

Can never go wrong with a new gun... I'm currently looking for a new rimfire bolt gun right now to start a new project on, but thats a different story.

Thanks for the link...

I looked a little into them recently, and ran across a thread where someone recommended letting a gunsmith swap it due to set screws or pins or something... basically stating that if you didnt know exactly what you were doing and didnt have the correct tools that the gas block could move and make the rifle inoperable until fixed. I, admittedly dont know how to work on this platform yet, as this is my first. After reading that and considering the price of the gas block and adding $60-$80(gunsmith per hour rate).. I kinda decided maybe I should stop putting money into the Sport 2 and K.I.S.S.. But, who knows... I change my mind daily when it comes to firearms and accessories.. If I do decide to swap it out do you know if it will work with the Magpul SL handguard? Or would I have to replace the handguard too?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-24-2017, 10:41 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,695
Likes: 1,736
Liked 10,893 Times in 4,471 Posts
Default

I picked that front sight and Brownell's for two reasons. First, everything from Brownell's comes with a lifetime warranty. Second, it is a clamp on sight. This means no pins and no set screws. And that means, no gunsmith necessary.

Brownell's also has really good videos on how to remove the A2 sight and install the new one. Even so, it's really simple. You'll need a punch to drive out three pins. One on the gas tube and two holding the sight. Drive out the pins, unscrew the flash hider and slide the original sight off the front.

To install the sight I linked, just separate the halves and place it on the barrel up against the step in the barrel. Make sure it's straight up and down. Tighten the screws and replace the pin holding the gas tube in place. Seriously, it's easier to install than it is to read this description.

I do understand that this kind of upgrade can be intimidating. However, if you have simple mechanical skills, you can do it. We'll help however we can. I'll do it for you for free if you ship me the upper and new sight.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #32  
Old 05-25-2017, 06:59 AM
bevans555's Avatar
bevans555 bevans555 is offline
Member
Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism. Bought first RDS... found out I have an astigmatism.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Thanks for taking the time to write that and the offer.. after I get the optic in, I might give it shot if the front sight bothers me. That's great to know that it's a no gunsmith necessary, version.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grail Gun Found and Bought today ... digiroc Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 17 09-05-2016 09:53 AM
Just found & bought a 60-7 LS sgc S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 5 01-11-2016 08:52 PM
Found and bought today at LGS tim c S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 23 07-29-2014 08:16 PM
WTB--S&W .32 H&R---Found & bought williamlayton WANTED to Buy 1 09-09-2011 10:23 AM
found primers and bought them, WooHoo duckloads Reloading 10 05-07-2009 12:35 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:57 AM.


© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)