Want to know what an M&P Sport 2, is capable of? I just got an optics ready version the other day and mounted a Vortex Spitfire 3X prism scope on it. I bore sighted it and off to the range. Got it quite close at 100 yards and put up a 4" shoot n' see type target. First shot, just to the right. Re-adjusted and made a three shot group of sub- one inch. Re-adjusted and took one more shot, which is the one that's a quarter inch off center. This is with a three power scope. If I'd had a 10 or 12 X scope, I'm sure it would just about produce close to a one hole group. I left it alone, at this point, because with just a three X scope, I could chase dead center all day. The ammo used was IMI, 55 grain FMJ. Cabela's is selling it for $6.49 a box. Veteran's get a 5% discount off that.

Attached Images

M&P AR at 100 Yards.jpg (54.6 KB, 146 views)

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Looks like you're good to go!

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Nice shooting but the optic is not the limiting factor in that group. It might tighten up with a 10 X scope but I doubt you would see one single hole.

Some Sport IIs are capable of 1 MOA accuracy at 100 yards but that does not mean all of them will be. Enjoy the rifle!

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Use should dictate gear!

Are you sighting in to kill something, or shoot paper targets?

Depends on how much money you want to sink into it. Better ammo will get you better results! Otherwise accuracy wise it's as capable as any other AR

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Ditto, Arik! A lot of people who say they are shooting sub MOA, well, I believe when I see. I can shoot sub MOA with good ammo. I cannot shoot sub MOA using the cheap Tullamo that I use for a lot of my range practice in my Sport II.

IMI is not bad ammo and in some rifles might shoot sub MOA here and there but in general plinking ammo like IMI, Wolf Gold, AE etc... gets you somewhere in the 3" range consistently in most guns in my experience.

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I would have to concur, I get 3 to 5" group at 100 yards with Tullamo and Perfecta. I get close to MOA with some American Eagle, Sellier, and PMC. The only ones I've been able to shoot sub MOA so far are Hornady and Black Hills. I haven't shot any Wolf thru my Sport II yet and I have never seen any IMI. I might have to try it If I run across some.

I'm a pretty good bench-rester, but never expected to get anywhere that small a group with an entry level AR, lower power optic and cheaper ammo like IMI. If I hadn't done it myself or been a witness to someone doing it, I wouldn't believe it either. Maybe it was a fluke. I only had time to shoot that one group, so I need to do more testing, maybe next week. I'll keep you posted.

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Entry level or not most ARs are the same in their design. Price difference comes from other things. Typically small things can improve accuracy but the design itself is inherently accurate. Along with that each individual rifle while identical is also different. It's not uncommon to find a rifle that gets excellent groups with cheap ammo

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I just measured your group. The 3 shot group in the upper left is .73MOA and the whole group, all 5 shots, is 1.86MOA. That's good for cheap ammo and an entry level rifle.

I pretty sure all M&P Sport guns will shoot MOA. It just takes good technique. At least every AR I've ever used was able to shoot MOA at reasonable ranges.

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I read an article this AM about WOLF ammo being capable of shooting a 1 MOA. I can post the article if the man states that it's ok.

Just post the link.... not sure why you would think that wouldn't be ok? It seems germane to the discussion here.

Wouldn't "RELEVANT" had been an easier word to use?
Watch: Can Wolf Ammo Get 1 MOA - AllOutdoor.com
BTW, I have over 5K rounds of WOLF GOLD & POLYFORMANCE (STEEL) ammo in my closet. Last year SGAmmo.com was running a special on both kinds of WOLF ammo. WOLF POLYFORMANCE ammo- 1K rounds of 55gr. steel case, $199 (+16 shipping, up to (5) cases). WOLF GOLD-1K rounds of 55 gr. $239 (+16 shipping, up to (5) cases). My son and I went in half, plus, we had a 20% off coupon.

Interesting but isn't MOA at 100 yards 1" or to be more exact 1.047"

Millett - Shooting Tips

The guy got 1.66" and determined that getting the extra .66 was not worth extra money. I personally am inclined to agree based on how and what I shoot.

So that Wolf Gold out of the Ruger Precision Rifle was not really MOA but close. I believe that the Wolf Gold made in Taiwan is the best value in plinking ammo.

If you still have 5K left how much did you buy originally. Either you bought a ton or you aren't shooting enough.

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Use should dictate gear!

No, it wouldn't. "Germane" has only 7 letters while "relevant" has 8. So, it's actually easier to use germane. Plus it has a connotation that fits the situation better.

And for the record, I shoot sub MOA groups all the time with Wolf Gold brass case ammo:

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Just trying to aggrandize your vocabulary!

Thanks for posting the link... I'll take a look at it.

I haven't got an AR yet, but, I would like to be able to do what my .30 Cal. Carbine did when I was in the service. Man-size targets at 300 yards...no problem. MOA of coke can bottom at at 100 should get the job done, and still be effective if I were to see a Coyote at ~200. Of course, I'd shoot just to scare him off!

My choices seem to be...entry-level ARs, like the Smith M&P II, or the Ruger AR 556, or the Ruger Mini 14. They all should be able to meet my requirements, not break the bank, and have the back up of a major manufacturer, if the unthinkable happens!

I was introduced to an expen$ive red dot sight (Trijicon) on a Smith M&P today...Wow! the dot was about 2 centuries sharper than the Burris Fastfire II I have on my pistol!

Is this just an urban/internet legend, or can a person use a "battle sight" setting for 50 yards, with the 5.56, and have it on center again at ~200 yards, with little compensation needed for intermediate ranges? Is this just for .308 ammunition?

I would stick with the AR over the mini... cheaper, and much more after market support.



Yes, sight it in at 50 yds, and it will be within +/- 2 in. out to around 225 yds.

Yes and yes. Ok, it might be 4K. I can't count too well, or I seem to exaggerate. Pick one, I don't care anymore.

I don't think I would buy a Mini 14 now. It's an outdated rifle compared to an AR. They did improve the accuracy but my understanding is it still isn't as accurate as an AR. There are so many more options with an AR. They have made improvements in an attempt to keep up with the AR explosion but IMO they are putting lipstick on a pig as it were. They aren't bad rifles. It's just that AR's are better in several ways. You can go into every gun shop in America probably and buy a mag for an AR. Not likely with a Mini 14. I might consider the Mini 30 because of the more powerful round it uses but not a 14.

No, not an internet legend, but it is caliber (more accurately stated as speed) dependent.

It's all about the trajectory of the bullet. Trajectory is the path the bullet follows toward the target.

Since gravity works, the bullet doesn't travel in a straight line.
Because the sights are higher than the bore, the barrel will need to be angled up a little in order to hit the same point you're looking at.
Because the barrel is elevated in relation to the line of sight, and because the bullet travels in an arc, there are two points of convergence where the line of sight and the path of the bullet are the same. Look at this picture:


Line of sight is referred to as Point-Of-Aim (POA).
Where the bullet impacts the target is Point-Of-Impact (POI).
So, a simpler way to state it is POA=POI at two points along the trajectory. This is true with every distance you zero at unless you zero at the apex of the trajectory.

Now let's do some real math. Take your example of zeroing at 50 yards. With a normal AR and a sight height over bore of approximately 2.5", this is what the trajectory will look like:

Notice that at 50 yards and ~235 yards the bullet path crosses 0. This means POA=POI at those two points. The problem with this is everything between 50 and 235 will hit higher than POA. That means you'd have to hold under for those ranges. Everything closer than 50 and further than 235 will hit lower than POA. This means you'd have to hold over for those ranges.

Change that to a zero at 100 yards and we get this:

Notice that there is only one place where POA=POI in this chart; 100 yards. Also notice that from 0 to ~205 the POI will be anywhere from 2" low to 0. This means that at any distance other than 100 yards, you'd have to hold over a little. At no time will you ever have to hold under. This simplifies the aiming from 0-200 yards because you know your round will hit within 0-2" low. That's only a 2" total spread.

With the 50 yard zero your round will hit between 2" low to 2" high in that same distance. That's a 4" spread over the same distance.

So, the question comes down to, how often will you shoot beyond 200 yards? If you shoot past 200 a lot, then the 50 yard zero might be for you. If you're like me and never use an AR to shoot beyond 200 yards, the 100 yard zero makes more sense.

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