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Old 06-29-2017, 03:34 PM
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I have three AR's. The S&W Sport II is the one used for home defense and lives behind the bedroom door (no kids, wife & I only!). It has a Primary Arme Advanced Micro Dot (50,000 hr battery life) and flip up rear sight for b/u. I am totally happy with this set up.

I have another that is used strictly as a plinker an it has a Vortex Strikefire II red/green dot which also works well.

My thire is the problem. I built from hand picked parts a semi-lightweight AR (14-1/2 pinned etc.). It has a Vortex Strike Eagle which works well for the ranges I shoot it at, (100 yds plus a little, with some plinking). But it is HEAVY. I love the etched illuminated reticle and the 1 power lets me use it like a red dot (both eyes open). When I need to reach out I can zoom up to 6X. Is there something that would work well for me that is LIGHTER than the Vortex? This heavy scope kinda defeats the semi light weight I was looking for.
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Old 06-30-2017, 05:06 PM
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I have run the gamut of scopes on my AR. From irons to ACOGs and variable to fixed. I've used RMRs and red dots. I've even run magnified optics with RMR at a 45 mount.

In all that, and based on my own eyes, I've finally settled on one optic; ACOG. Yes, it's a fixed magnification, but for me it just works. From 7 yards to 200, I have no trouble hitting what I need to. Nothing to fiddle with or adjust. It's always on and works in bright light to complete darkness.

I'm currently running a TA33R-8. It's a 3x with the red chevron reticle. It weighs in at just over 7oz. Light, fast, easy to use and the most durable scope on the market. I find the 3x to be enough magnification to hit the thoracic cavity of a man at 200 yards and still fast enough to hit the eye box at 7 yards in under 1.8 seconds.
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Old 06-30-2017, 05:26 PM
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Leupold VX-R Patrol Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 1.25-4x 20mm. Etched glass with Firedot.
11.5oz compared compared to the Vortex at 17.6oz.
About the same price range as the Vortex.

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Old 06-30-2017, 05:39 PM
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I've got Aimpoints on 2 ARs......... a 1-4x20 Leupold on another AR and an Vortex viper on my 15-22.

If the SisHingTF ........ I like the Aimpoint.

Light sniper/ fun at the range the Leupold.........

Just got the Vortex...... really like the 6moa dot .... field of view.......
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Old 07-01-2017, 01:25 AM
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I really like the 10 oz. weight savings with the ACOG. I do NOT like the $900 to $1100 price point! It's a little above my "gag point". The Leopold sounds OK but the weight saving of only 6 oz. doesn't seem like it's worth it to have less than I have now. 10 oz, sounds great. but I can't afford it.

I hate to say it, but it is looking more and more like a red dot for this rifle is in the future. It's a shame, because I really like the features of the Vortex Strike Eagle.

Maybe one of the Primary Arms 2.5 scope/dot options would work?

Anything, thanks for the info. Hopefully someone can solve my problem.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:03 AM
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I don't think you'll see much weight savings with PA magnified optics. Maybe some with the incorporated mount.

If budget is an overriding factor and more weight savings...

Maybe something like the Leupold VX-2 1-4x would be worth considering. At 8.1oz it's less than half the weight of the Vortex. For out to 100yd recreational plinking that you're doing the duplex reticle would probably work fine.

On sale they go for around $250. Midway is selling them for $239 free shipping. Leupold VX-2 Rifle Scope 1-4x 20mm Duplex Reticle Matte - MPN: 110793

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Old 07-01-2017, 07:53 AM
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As I stated above I really like the Leupold 1-4x20 scopes ..... I've got them on not only the AR but my CZ 452 .22 magnum and a 527 in .223.

Another light and inexpensive scope is the weaver 1-3x20 shotgun scope..... it was popular in 3gun.

Red dot the Aimpoint PRO is a good buy at about $400...... LOL IIRC only 30,000 hours out of a battery vs 50.000 on the top $$ military models.
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricrock View Post
I really like the 10 oz. weight savings with the ACOG. I do NOT like the $900 to $1100 price point! It's a little above my "gag point".
Mine too, but I've learned a thing or two the hard way; optics is not where you want to save money.

I can use a $500 rifle and a $1,000 scope to shoot 1/2MOA.
I cannot use a $5,000 rifle and a $50 scope to shoot 1/2MOA.

If I took all the money I've spent on cheap optics (including wasted ammo trying to chase a decent zero) and just bought one good optic, I'd be money ahead.

Yes, the ACOG will run $1,200 or more if bought new. Used I've seen them as low as $650. The trouble with the used market is it's hard to get the exact configuration you want.

Cost cannot be ignored, but you have to look at the long view. It might require saving a for a while, but it's worth the wait. I saved my pennies, searched for a few months through the classified ads and eventually found the one for me. It was indeed worth the wait.
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Old 07-02-2017, 08:46 AM
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I have three AR's. .

My third is the problem. I built from hand picked parts a semi-lightweight AR (14-1/2 pinned etc.). It has a Vortex Strike Eagle which works well for the ranges I shoot it at, (100 yds plus a little, with some plinking). But it is HEAVY. I love the etched illuminated reticle and the 1 power lets me use it like a red dot (both eyes open). When I need to reach out I can zoom up to 6X. Is there something that would work well for me that is LIGHTER than the Vortex? This heavy scope kinda defeats the semi light weight I was looking for.
I also have the Vortex Strike Eagle. I'm 72, weigh 155lbs and didn't notice much difference between my M&P Sport, with or without the scope. Stance and hold, has a lot to do with how well you shoot. Granted, it's not like shooting a Ruger 10/22, but with practice and technique, it gets better. The only problem with the Strike Eagle is holding zero. I may replace it.
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Old 07-02-2017, 11:02 PM
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You add a magnified scope, it changes the game. Check your mount as well. Leatherwood CMR4 and a PEPR mount are like a boat anchor on mine. When I take it off, its night and day on the weight.
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Old 07-03-2017, 02:42 AM
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i Strike Eagle is mounted on an Aero Precision ultralight SPR mount weighing 3.36 oz. Add that to the Strike Eagle's 17.6 oz and I'm looking at over 20 oz.

The ACOG weighs 14 oz. with mount, which is less, but I am hoping to be in the 8 to 10 oz. range.The Leopold is 8.1 oz. plus mount and doesn't have a lighted reticle.

From what I see, the Primary Arms 3x scope is at 16.8 including mount, which is still heavier than I am looking for.

I might have to settle for another Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot, which is 3.9 oz. plus mount.

I was hoping for something with an etched reticle so I won't need BUIS.
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Old 07-03-2017, 08:28 AM
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Well... I don't think you're going to find a much lighter magnified optic or range of prices than what's already been suggested.

Some guys use a 1x red dot and separate magnifier. That combination is typically heavier that a conventional scope but it would allow you to leave the magnifier in your range bag until needed.

At some point the operator decides what aiming device best serves the intended use. If that's a magnified optic, then extra weight is part of the equation over something than might not be best suited like a 1x red dot. Every rifle is a set of compromises.

Good luck.

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Old 07-04-2017, 02:28 AM
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If you just went with a scope and did away with all the tactical junk, you could likely save weight as a set of super high rings and a lightweight Leupold scope would likely weigh much less. As long as a front sight isnt getting in the way, some lighweight aluminum Leupold Rifleman rings in extra high and basically any of the VX2 series scopes would give you great magnification and in a lightweight setup.

And if you did that, TSS outfitters is the place to buy a Leupold.
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Old 07-04-2017, 11:47 AM
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If you just went with a scope and did away with all the tactical junk,...
What "tactical junk" are you suggesting he get rid of? I don't remember the OP mentioning anything besides the scope.
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Old 07-04-2017, 01:41 PM
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No Tactical Junk on this rifle. BCM KMR Handguard, Faxon Gunner Barrel (14-1/2" pinned with welded FH, Mission First Tactical Minimalist Butt Stock, WMD NiB Bolt Carrier Group, CMC Trigger. Not even open sights! The only thing heavy on this rifle is the Strike Eagle, and I've gone with an ultralight Aero mount for it.

I could save about 5 oz. by going with the Primary Arms 2.5 scope with etched reticle. and about 6 oz. with the ACOG (which I can't afford). The best option without an etched reticle is the Leopold VX-2, but then I'd need BUIS.

Leaning toward the PA right now. Does anyone have any experience with this scope?

Thanks in advance.

Rick
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:06 PM
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I could save about 5 oz. by going with the Primary Arms 2.5 scope with etched reticle. and about 6 oz. with the ACOG (which I can't afford). The best option without an etched reticle is the Leopold VX-2, but then I'd need BUIS.

Leaning toward the PA right now. Does anyone have any experience with this scope?

Rick
Are you concerned about the reliability of Leupold's wire constructed reticle?
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:36 PM
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Are you concerned about the reliability of Leupold's wire constructed reticle?

Yup. Etched won't move and will function like a red dot, even without illumination.
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Old 07-04-2017, 04:42 PM
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I don't understand. You've built a really nice rifle. You've got top of the line or near top components. Why are you going cheap on the glass?
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Old 07-04-2017, 05:46 PM
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Not intending to go cheap, but ACOG is past my "Gag Point". I want reliability, hence Vortex and Primary Arms MD-ADS Red Dot on HD (Sport II) weapon, with 50,000 hr. battery life. It's always on, and I understand it can "take a licking, and keep on ticking". Maybe I'll shop around the "other" AR website and see if I can pick up a used one. At least I can take a look. In all honesty, the ACOG would be perfect, and I respect your appreciation of the sight, but I cannot (nor, would my wife) justify a $1000 optic on my homemade "toy". I just took it to the range yesterday for the first time and it shoots beautifully. My Sport II is carbine length gas, and my new built rifle is mid. It really makes a difference in what little recoil these rifles have.

Thanks,


Rick
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:26 AM
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you have to get an ACOG (I do know where there's a TA33 that can probably be had for $750 though). I'm just saying that you've already bought good to excellent components to make the gun, why not put glass that's worthy of the build? It's like completely restoring a '68 Corvette and putting a 6 cylinder engine in it. Sure, it'll work, but...

I've been where you are. I completely understand the "gag" reflex when looking at the price of optics. I've also learned the hard way that cheap optics are just cheap. The optic on my long range rifle cost twice the price of the rifle.

Let me come at this from a different angle...
Why did a $275 forearm and a $200 trigger (what you actually paid for them isn't important) not cause you to balk at the price, when you could have bought a $100 forearm and an $85 trigger that would have worked?

This is a rhetorical question. We don't really need the answer. It's just an attempt to provoke thought from a different angle.
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:15 AM
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I just took the Vortex Strike Eagle and the mount off my Sport 2 flattop and took them back to Cabela's for store credit. I couldn't get it to hold a zero. I should have known there was something wrong when I bought it, as I could just about turn the adjusters with my fingernail. I went back to Vortex Spitfire 3X and can benchrest under 2" at 100 yards with it, so good enough. It is a little lighter too, but not a lot.
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:42 AM
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No Tactical Junk on this rifle.

The best option without an etched reticle is the Leopold VX-2, but then I'd need BUIS.

Leaning toward the PA right now. Does anyone have any experience with this scope?

Thanks in advance.

Rick

Nice rifle but IIRC you called it a ''range toy".........but you need BUIS if you've got an optic w/o etched reticle.

Not sure what "this" rifle is going to be used for........... to me use defined what optic is "needed"

As I stated I went with either a Aimpoint or Leupold scope on my rifles........ BUIS are just that ..... so I'm good to go with Magpul sights for $80 a set......... < $500 for sights.

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Old 07-05-2017, 02:54 PM
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It is a range toy and plinker. I don't need BUIS nor do I want them due to added weight and bulk. A scope without etched reticle would require me to have some sort of back up, if I want to play all day and something happens to the illumination.

That is why my use requires etched reticle. After my first range trip with the Strike Eagle, and seeing how easy it points, how clear the glass is and how well it holds zero, I might just keep it on there in spite of the 4 to 6 oz penalty.

Here are (I'm trying) some pictures.
Need a new optic-100_0341-jpg

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Old 07-05-2017, 07:05 PM
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You sure made it hard on yourself. I have one AR and four sights depending on the outing. The laser stays mounted and I can turn it on/off or use a thumb switch. When parked behind the door, it has the red dot. When plinking, it has a Nikon scope. When hunting (day or night) it has an X-Sight II mounted. I labeled each one on where it goes on the rail (for zero) and the QRs make it simple to change. I don't use the iron sights.

Added: Oh, and if you're worried about shaving a few ounces, change to 10/20-round mags.
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Old 07-06-2017, 01:16 AM
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I do use 10 and 20 rd mags, that is the only one I have with the "foot" so the rifle will stand up proud for pics.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:04 AM
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Tinhack's post gives some good ideas......as I stated different optics for different uses .....just take a extra optic to the range with LaRue Tactical quick release mounts....... have a little red dot fun ...... followed by "teeny tiny group time" with a nice Leupold scope,


LaRue carries a Aimpoint ACO optic with Mount for just $393...... sweeeet.

LOL on your choice of magazines....... my personal theory...... 30 rd mags for TEOTWAWKI........20 rounders for when the SHTF....... 10 round magazines 99.999999% of the time!

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Old 07-06-2017, 08:05 AM
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Concerns about the reliability of a wire constructed reticle on the Leupold, particularly on a low recoil rifle for simple recreational range use, might be worth reconsidering. Vortex offers models with wire constructed reticles such as the the Viper HS-T. They get mounted on a variety of rifles with much greater recoil than 5.56. I doubt guys are using BUIS on their Rem .308 .700s .

Optics fail, particularly budget optics, for reasons other then reticle issues. See post #21 failed mechanism Strike Eagle. With reliability being a high priority it was curious to see something like $100-$200 Chinese budget optics like PA were being considered at all. That's not a knock on PA, I have three of their optics... but they is what they is...

IMO, I think you made a good choice to keep the Strike Eagle on the rifle until more settled on a set of criteria for a different optic.

Happy optics hunting.
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