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Old 07-05-2017, 12:37 PM
Scotiapilot Scotiapilot is offline
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Default Sport II Hammer and trigger

For a trigger and hammer assembly there is nothing wrong with the SPort II product.

HOWEVER

it appears to be aMIM product and it is NOT MIL SPEC

It also has casting lines that are vertical on the hammer and it will scratch the BCG on the underside. Ill post pics later.

You should look at your BCG and hammer. Run you nail across the hammer face.

For 25.00 it is well worth buying a true milspec trigger group and replacing. Itw ould also be a great time to polish the faces of the new TG prior to installing.

EVEN polishing the hammer face, all the HIGH end trigger companies do it and its a simple job.
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:03 PM
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Why would you replace the stock trigger for what could be a worse trigger in a true mil-spec trigger? What is to be gained by that?

I see no reason to swap it because of what equates to wear marks on the BCG.
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:17 PM
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Be careful how much polishing you do on the replacement parts as they are cast parts and only surface hardened.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:07 PM
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I hated the stock sport II trigger, but being a budget rifle i couldn't see using an expensive trigger with it. I had a couple extra BCM triggers sitting on the shelf so I threw one in, much smoother feel and a crisper break.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:14 PM
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In my Sport II, I have an ALG ACT. Love it! And is very reasonable.
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:45 PM
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My hammer had no such casting marks. The trigger was a little steppy though so I did some polishing. Smooth as silk now with 4.5 pound pull and snappy break. No extra parts needed.
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinhack View Post
My hammer had no such casting marks. The trigger was a little steppy though so I did some polishing. Smooth as silk now with 4.5 pound pull and snappy break. No extra parts needed.
I did the same thing as you, plus installed a JS spring kit, using the red spring, for hard primers. A dab of aluminum anti-seize on the end of a toothpick, put on the hammer contact surface and the trigger breaks at a very smooth and crisp 4.5 pounds.

When polishing, you take off less than .001, so no worry of removing the case hardening.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:08 AM
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100% better, I polished the mil-spec perfectly. Including hammer face etc. 2000 grit paper, buffing wheel. Amazing the casting imperfections you can see when you do that.
Trigger is excellent. Certainly lighter to the pull and much more crisp.
Well worth the $ and time spent.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:17 AM
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Default Sport II Hammer and trigger

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdrolling View Post
I hated the stock sport II trigger, but being a budget rifle i couldn't see using an expensive trigger with it. I had a couple extra BCM triggers sitting on the shelf so I threw one in, much smoother feel and a crisper break.


This. It's a budget rifle and S&W doesn't advertise it as milspec. Mine has run fine throughout the 4,000 I've put through it in a few years time and I've noticed no unusual wear patterns on the bolt. In short, it's held up and doing what it's supposed to do. That said, I have another designated rifle that I use for self defense. Now, if you just want to upgrade the trigger for whatever reason please do so (for weight or piece of mind). Don't, however, assume that a mim part is < a forged for this specific function (trigger). Show me some hard proof it is inferior vs a milspec tigger.

Last edited by jagular; 07-06-2017 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:08 AM
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Many modern car and truck engines use powdered metal connecting rods no problems. Hammers and triggers in an AR should be an easy engineering exercise. Today's technology isn't always just about cheap,many times it's about better. You can usually improve on a given part if cost is not considered but the stock part is usually more than sufficient to get the job done. I have had many military surplus rifles over the years and AR triggers compare very well to any of them.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:08 PM
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I left my Sport I ALL factory.
But, in my AR-556, I installed a new PSA BCG, and an AR STONER trigger with a JP ENTERPRISE 3.5 lb. spring kit. Seriously, it went from an 8.50-8.75 lb. pull to just under 4.75 lb. pull!
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonn View Post
Many modern car and truck engines use powdered metal connecting rods no problems. Hammers and triggers in an AR should be an easy engineering exercise. Today's technology isn't always just about cheap,many times it's about better. You can usually improve on a given part if cost is not considered but the stock part is usually more than sufficient to get the job done. I have had many military surplus rifles over the years and AR triggers compare very well to any of them.
MIM is not my preferred method of parts manufacturing but if done properly it works. My issue with MIM is not that it cannot be done well it is that it is done because the manufacturer is engaged in a race to the bottom in terms of MSRP and street price and MIM is the fastest way to get there. 99% of the time gun manufacturers are not using it to make the product better they are using it to make the product cheaper and easier to produce. The other thing to note it that in general if a MIM part is going to fail it fails early in its life.

Life is too short and ammo is too expensive to shoot a poor or even middling trigger IMHO. This does not mean that the stock Sport II trigger is bad but it has been my experience that mass market stock triggers are not consistent. Some are great some not so much. If I get one in the not so great category they get swapped out with something like a LaRue MBT-2S or a Geissele SSA. YMMV
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:59 PM
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I purchased an ALG ACT last Saturday during their 4th of July sale for $55.20 from all I've heard it's a solid piece, guess I'll see for myself in a week or so. The stock trigger seems a little mushy to me compared to the FN made A2 I carried while in the Army Reserve

Last edited by Micah Johnson; 07-06-2017 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Scotiapilot wrote:
HOWEVER

it appears to be a MIM product and it is NOT MIL SPEC

It also has casting lines that are vertical on the hammer and it will scratch the BCG on the underside. Ill post pics later.

You should look at your BCG and hammer. Run you nail across the hammer face.
So what?

The Sport II is not a mil-spec rifle and S&W doesn't market it as being a mil-spec rifle, so I don't see any point in trying to make it into one.
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hdwhit View Post
So what?

The Sport II is not a mil-spec rifle and S&W doesn't market it as being a mil-spec rifle, so I don't see any point in trying to make it into one.
Good for you. Me either. That's why I just changed the trigger to mil spec and improved on the mil spec.
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotiapilot View Post
Good for you. Me either. That's why I just changed the trigger to mil spec and improved on the mil spec.
But again, what did you gain from changing the trigger from stock to "mil-spec"? You could have saved yourself $25 and performed the same polishing on the stock trigger.

I understand swapping the stock trigger with a known better trigger, but not a run of the mill, mil-spec trigger.
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
But again, what did you gain from changing the trigger from stock to "mil-spec"? You could have saved yourself $25 and performed the same polishing on the stock trigger.

I understand swapping the stock trigger with a known better trigger, but not a run of the mill, mil-spec trigger.
Familiarity of the mil spec, trust in mil spec tolerance and finish.
The SW trigger is pretty unique in that the it actually has a sort of built in step that after about 500 rounds was already rounded. I think the rounding of that step is an issue The reset hook on the hammer is longer because of the design. The mil spec piece is something I am very used to. I can count on it in 3 gun matches production class.

Ill post pics as soon as I can to show you. I need to find a hosting sight
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:33 PM
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\

Last edited by Scotiapilot; 07-07-2017 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotiapilot View Post

Ill post pics as soon as I can to show you. I need to find a hosting sight
Flickr is what I had to start using, here is the factory sport II trigger that I pulled and the BCM trigger (silver) that I replaced it with.

IMG_8369 by hd_rolling, on Flickr
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:38 PM
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If you notice the rolled edges on the factory SW piece you can see its made oddly. The seer catch on the trigger or the seer shelf is barely making contact.
The rounded edges causes that mushy feel and inconsistent feel.

SO how much more proof is needed to show the cruddy ness of the sw trigger. The MIM type casting wearing out as can be seen by the photos, How a mil spec trigger will top it in feel, fit and finish.

I am not sure how to take the nay sayers here as the proof is indisputable along with pics etc. Nevermind the experience in handling this and others.

Yes mil spec is better by a long shot.
MIM cast parts are of lesser quality. (or whatever sw used on these trigger sets)

Last edited by Scotiapilot; 07-07-2017 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:29 PM
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Been reading a bunch of posts complaining on this forum about the S&W Sport II and its parts not being "mil-spec". For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would purchase an economy AR and expect the parts to be "mil-spec". Buy a Colt LE6920 and be done with it if it's so important to you to have the parts "mil-spec".

If the part does not have a NSN number it's not "mil-spec". Semi-auto AR15 rifles by definition are not "mil-spec" because they can not meet the Technical Data Package. Mil-spec is one of the most over used and abused terms in the firearms industry.
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Old 07-08-2017, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
Been reading a bunch of posts complaining on this forum about the S&W Sport II and its parts not being "mil-spec". For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would purchase an economy AR and expect the parts to be "mil-spec". Buy a Colt LE6920 and be done with it if it's so important to you to have the parts "mil-spec".

If the part does not have a NSN number it's not "mil-spec". Semi-auto AR15 rifles by definition are not "mil-spec" because they can not meet the Technical Data Package. Mil-spec is one of the most over used and abused terms in the firearms industry.
Nothing is truly mil spec unless its a true mil rifle AKA FA colt FN etc.

The thread is simply about the trigger. Fact is FA trigger sets DO NOT come with a NSN number stamped on them period.

Colt, FN or any other is simply a rifle put together with civi pieces that are designed as close to milspec as possible. Semi auto trigger groups are rarely if EVER used in US military rifles. matter of fact I have never seen a US Mil rifle semi only unless the depo removed the seer for training......I have never seen that.

I am not sure any COLT, or any other clone maker rifles stay "stock" as there are so many other awesome add ons that make it better.

As the OP here, I can safely say the 25 dollar trigger is much better than the Sport trigger. if it saved money on the build it was dimes to a dollar at best. I suggest using the Mil spec type of trigger for a better feel, its a heck of lot better than spending 200-300 for aftermarket two stage for a battle rifle.

Mil spec doesn't always mean the best. But in triggers, in this scenario it does means "better". It also means familiar with many of us who only know a mil spec trigger feel is better, more crisp and more familiar than the sport stock piece. I think its safe to say the stock sport trigger is an easy piece to replace that will allow the user to invest some labor, get to know his rifle and produce a better option for him.....and still not spend the huge dollars other manufacturers charge for similar product.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotiapilot View Post

Mil spec doesn't always mean the best. But in triggers, in this scenario it does means "better". It also means familiar with many of us who only know a mil spec trigger feel is better, more crisp and more familiar than the sport stock piece. I think its safe to say the stock sport trigger is an easy piece to replace that will allow the user to invest some labor, get to know his rifle and produce a better option for him.....and still not spend the huge dollars other manufacturers charge for similar product.
If we took 10 identical rifles and all had a stock "mil-spec" trigger but one, and it had the Sport trigger, you would not be able to pick the one out of the group by shooting and feel alone.

I would bet money that you would pick the wrong one! AR triggers are inconsistent and each one has a different feel. Many Sport owners are happy with the stock trigger compared to basic "mil-spec" triggers and feel that they are not as gritty feeling and break cleaner. Mine does not exhibit any rounding of the edges.

If you are happy with a slicked up, basic trigger, then great. It works for you because you are playing games with rules... But I don't think it is necessary for folks to change out the stock Sport trigger over to a "mil-spec" trigger... having several rifles with both, I just don't feel a big difference between them.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
If we took 10 identical rifles and all had a stock "mil-spec" trigger but one, and it had the Sport trigger, you would not be able to pick the one out of the group by shooting and feel alone.

I would bet money that you would pick the wrong one! AR triggers are inconsistent and each one has a different feel. Many Sport owners are happy with the stock trigger compared to basic "mil-spec" triggers and feel that they are not as gritty feeling and break cleaner. Mine does not exhibit any rounding of the edges.

If you are happy with a slicked up, basic trigger, then great. It works for you because you are playing games with rules... But I don't think it is necessary for folks to change out the stock Sport trigger over to a "mil-spec" trigger... having several rifles with both, I just don't feel a big difference between them.
Your argument is called "reductio ad absurdum" Look it up.

I can say OH HUH and you can make a stupid comment and say HUH, but for me to be actually able to prove it is nonsense. Line up a bunch of rifles for me to test. Stupid way to argue and seriously WT EF do you care.

Given the vast differences of many triggers I am very doubtful I could tell one cruddy trigger from another. Now place my mil spec polished trigger amongst your stock sw and non polished triggers and I will pick mine out every day.

Last edited by Scotiapilot; 07-08-2017 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:10 PM
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Looks like we're done here.
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