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Old 07-09-2017, 11:31 PM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
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Default Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?

I have been trying to get a solid zero out of my MP-15. The zero seems to change every outing. I've gone through a red dot, and 4 scopes. I seem to get dialed in at 50' or 25 yds and then at 100 yds I can't hit a 24" X 40" target. I took it to the 50' range and dialed it in today. But the holes in the target were not round. They looked like the round hit sideways.Any thoughts? For the record I have an MP15/22 and an AR chambered in 9mm. I also shot expert back when at Pendleton and 29 Palms with an M16-A2.
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:50 PM
TX-Dennis TX-Dennis is offline
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I'd call S&W. They will email you a shipping label to return it for service at no cost to you.

Something is definitely amiss. I would hesitate to guess at what it is, though.
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:13 AM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Agree with TX-Dennis. Chances are it is going to be something that you can't fix yourself, outside of swapping a barrel.
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:56 AM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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Are you shooting 55gr or 62gr bullets or some of the heavy for caliber (75gr on up) loads? The heavy ones probably won't stabilize in a M&P15. Are they gun show reloads?Try a different brand before contacting the mother ship. The projectiles could be undersized as has been reported on this forum a couple of times.

Is the rifle new or did you purchase it used? There have been a couple of postings on this sub-forum from shooters that have worn out their barrels in as few as 2k rounds.

Lastly, if new did you examine the barrel and crown? It wouldn't be the first barrel that was defective from Smith.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:48 AM
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Let us know how you resolve this.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:56 AM
Arik Arik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
Are you shooting 55gr or 62gr bullets or some of the heavy for caliber (75gr on up) loads? The heavy ones probably won't stabilize in a M&P15. Are they gun show reloads?Try a different brand before contacting the mother ship. The projectiles could be undersized as has been reported on this forum a couple of times.

Is the rifle new or did you purchase it used? There have been a couple of postings on this sub-forum from shooters that have worn out their barrels in as few as 2k rounds.

Lastly, if new did you examine the barrel and crown? It wouldn't be the first barrel that was defective from Smith.
Bullet weight shouldn't matter. Depending on the twist rate some bullets will stabilize better but the only difference down rang should be more or less accuracy depending on the bullet weight. If rounds are key holing (hitting sideways) there's something wrong with the barrel. Either the lands/groves were cut wrong, or the barrel wasn't finished or it's the wrong diameter. Could be really bad crown.

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Old 07-10-2017, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
tg1stlavmt wrote:
For the record I have an MP15/22 and an AR chambered in 9mm. I also shot expert back when at Pendleton and 29 Palms with an M16-A2.
Which of these two guns is your post concerning; the MP-15/22 or the AR whose maker is not specified?

Before anyone offers advice on fixing your problem, I think we need to know which gun it is that is causing the problem.

Also, you say you have gone through a red dot and four (4) scopes, but you didn't mention whether you have iron sights on the rifle that has the problem and whether you can establish a consistent zero with them.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:53 PM
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ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
Are you shooting 55gr or 62gr bullets or some of the heavy for caliber (75gr on up) loads? The heavy ones probably won't stabilize in a M&P15.
AmmoLand did a test of just that-- 80gr bullets in a 1/9 twist barrel. Every shot was a sideways bullet strike at 25yds with a group of 10 inches.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 07-10-2017 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:56 PM
Arik Arik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
AmmoLand did a test of just that-- 80gr bullets in a 1/9 twist barrel. Every shot was a sideways bullet strike at 25yds with a group of 10 inches.
When talking about 556/223 I never consider anything less than 55 or greater than 77.

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Old 07-10-2017, 02:42 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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Is it possible your barrel is heavily fouled? The situation you're describing...accurate up close but way off at 100 yds. just might be severe fouling that has never been completely removed. Not to upset you but many of us never get our rifle barrels totally clean.

Good Luck.
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:39 PM
patrickd patrickd is offline
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The answer is to build your own AR and then you'll know what went into it. I built mine on our dining room table in a couple of hours from scratch. It runs flawlessly. Lastly, any AR out there these days should stabilize anything 62 gr and under as it is hard to find one with anything slower than a 1/9 twist rate. If you're running something north of 69 gr you'll be wanting a barrel with a 1/7 twist.
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:13 PM
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In the original post, it sounds like the problem is with an M&P 15-22. Have you tried different brands of 22s? Have you inspected the bore to see if the lands and grooves are distinct? It is possible that the bullets in your 22s are undersized, and it is possible that the problem lies with the barrel! It is possible that the barrel is severely fouled, or that the rifling is not fully cut. It is also possible that a 0.224 centerfire barrel was mistakenly in with rimfire barrels. If the bore is clear of lead fouling, let the job fall in S&W's hands under warranty!
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Last edited by lrrifleman; 07-10-2017 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:32 PM
Steve912 Steve912 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Bullet weight shouldn't matter.

No..

Depending on the twist rate some bullets will stabilize better but the only difference down rang should be more or less accuracy depending on the bullet weight.

No..

If rounds are key holing (hitting sideways) there's something wrong with the barrel.

Not necessarily.


Either the lands/groves were cut wrong, or the barrel wasn't finished or it's the wrong diameter.

Not necessarily.


Could be really bad crown.

NO...lol
Ouch!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:03 PM
Arik Arik is offline
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Bullet weight doesn't matter (unless you're picking some hard to find obscure weight). Nothing will tumble using a 1/9 twist with weight ranging from 55-77gr. Nothing tumbles using the same weight in 1/7 twist. Groups may open up or shrink but not key hole. Any off the rack AR will shoot 55-77gr just fine. Unless you have some unusual combo of twist and ammo.

Only time I've seen key holing was with poor barrels. And bad crowns do cause key holing. To both of those.....go buy some Century Arms made barrels. Look em up. Years and years worth of key holing problems due to oversized barrels and bad crowns


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Old 07-12-2017, 07:48 PM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
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The problem is with my mp15. My other ar's are fine. This final test was with Winchester granules recommended for this twist rate. I'll call s&w and see about sending out in. It's a safe queen so its absence is not upsetting.

When I I know more I'll pass it on.

Thanx
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:00 PM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
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Not granules. Frangibles.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:07 PM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
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As many recommended I contacted S&W. They did not seem overly surprised and sent me a mailing label. I m quite pleased with this as I was wondering why this particular rifle was defeating me.Thanks for the help and I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks again!!

Tim
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:21 AM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
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I got the rifle back in about 1 month, with the 2 week downtime. I think that they put a new complete upper on the rifle. At the 100 yd line, once I got a zero, I was able to put ten rounds in a 2" box regularly. Now to get back in practice with a rifle at 100yds.
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Old 08-28-2017, 06:59 AM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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Sounds like bad barrels happen.
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Old 08-28-2017, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tg1stlavmt View Post
I got the rifle back in about 1 month, with the 2 week downtime. I think that they put a new complete upper on the rifle. At the 100 yd line, once I got a zero, I was able to put ten rounds in a 2" box regularly. Now to get back in practice with a rifle at 100yds.
This is the outcome I like to read about. You own a firearm that has a lifetime warranty, why not use it? Why keep throwing money and/or guessing at it with this or that when S&W will fix it, FREE!
SMH!
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Old 08-28-2017, 06:04 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Whereas, if you build your very own frankengun, you also own all the problems.
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