Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:31 PM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?

I have been trying to get a solid zero out of my MP-15. The zero seems to change every outing. I've gone through a red dot, and 4 scopes. I seem to get dialed in at 50' or 25 yds and then at 100 yds I can't hit a 24" X 40" target. I took it to the 50' range and dialed it in today. But the holes in the target were not round. They looked like the round hit sideways.Any thoughts? For the record I have an MP15/22 and an AR chambered in 9mm. I also shot expert back when at Pendleton and 29 Palms with an M16-A2.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:50 PM
TX-Dennis TX-Dennis is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: West Texas
Posts: 891
Likes: 1,474
Liked 902 Times in 461 Posts
Default

I'd call S&W. They will email you a shipping label to return it for service at no cost to you.

Something is definitely amiss. I would hesitate to guess at what it is, though.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:13 AM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
US Veteran
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 3,930
Likes: 857
Liked 2,969 Times in 1,631 Posts
Default

Agree with TX-Dennis. Chances are it is going to be something that you can't fix yourself, outside of swapping a barrel.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-10-2017, 06:56 AM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: God's Country
Posts: 4,236
Likes: 927
Liked 2,888 Times in 1,501 Posts
Default

Are you shooting 55gr or 62gr bullets or some of the heavy for caliber (75gr on up) loads? The heavy ones probably won't stabilize in a M&P15. Are they gun show reloads?Try a different brand before contacting the mother ship. The projectiles could be undersized as has been reported on this forum a couple of times.

Is the rifle new or did you purchase it used? There have been a couple of postings on this sub-forum from shooters that have worn out their barrels in as few as 2k rounds.

Lastly, if new did you examine the barrel and crown? It wouldn't be the first barrel that was defective from Smith.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 07-10-2017, 07:48 AM
vonn's Avatar
vonn vonn is offline
US Veteran
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: houston,texas
Posts: 4,789
Likes: 73,315
Liked 16,713 Times in 3,795 Posts
Default

Let us know how you resolve this.
__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-10-2017, 07:56 AM
Arik Arik is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,927
Likes: 6,520
Liked 14,757 Times in 6,365 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
Are you shooting 55gr or 62gr bullets or some of the heavy for caliber (75gr on up) loads? The heavy ones probably won't stabilize in a M&P15. Are they gun show reloads?Try a different brand before contacting the mother ship. The projectiles could be undersized as has been reported on this forum a couple of times.

Is the rifle new or did you purchase it used? There have been a couple of postings on this sub-forum from shooters that have worn out their barrels in as few as 2k rounds.

Lastly, if new did you examine the barrel and crown? It wouldn't be the first barrel that was defective from Smith.
Bullet weight shouldn't matter. Depending on the twist rate some bullets will stabilize better but the only difference down rang should be more or less accuracy depending on the bullet weight. If rounds are key holing (hitting sideways) there's something wrong with the barrel. Either the lands/groves were cut wrong, or the barrel wasn't finished or it's the wrong diameter. Could be really bad crown.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:34 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Texas
Posts: 436
Likes: 6
Liked 246 Times in 158 Posts
Default

Quote:
tg1stlavmt wrote:
For the record I have an MP15/22 and an AR chambered in 9mm. I also shot expert back when at Pendleton and 29 Palms with an M16-A2.
Which of these two guns is your post concerning; the MP-15/22 or the AR whose maker is not specified?

Before anyone offers advice on fixing your problem, I think we need to know which gun it is that is causing the problem.

Also, you say you have gone through a red dot and four (4) scopes, but you didn't mention whether you have iron sights on the rifle that has the problem and whether you can establish a consistent zero with them.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:53 PM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,971
Likes: 7,050
Liked 18,351 Times in 5,412 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
Are you shooting 55gr or 62gr bullets or some of the heavy for caliber (75gr on up) loads? The heavy ones probably won't stabilize in a M&P15.
AmmoLand did a test of just that-- 80gr bullets in a 1/9 twist barrel. Every shot was a sideways bullet strike at 25yds with a group of 10 inches.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 07-10-2017 at 01:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:56 PM
Arik Arik is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,927
Likes: 6,520
Liked 14,757 Times in 6,365 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
AmmoLand did a test of just that-- 80gr bullets in a 1/9 twist barrel. Every shot was a sideways bullet strike at 25yds with a group of 10 inches.
When talking about 556/223 I never consider anything less than 55 or greater than 77.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:42 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
US Veteran
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,814
Likes: 6,434
Liked 1,835 Times in 959 Posts
Question

Is it possible your barrel is heavily fouled? The situation you're describing...accurate up close but way off at 100 yds. just might be severe fouling that has never been completely removed. Not to upset you but many of us never get our rifle barrels totally clean.

Good Luck.
__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-10-2017, 03:39 PM
patrickd patrickd is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 403
Likes: 320
Liked 428 Times in 194 Posts
Default

The answer is to build your own AR and then you'll know what went into it. I built mine on our dining room table in a couple of hours from scratch. It runs flawlessly. Lastly, any AR out there these days should stabilize anything 62 gr and under as it is hard to find one with anything slower than a 1/9 twist rate. If you're running something north of 69 gr you'll be wanting a barrel with a 1/7 twist.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-10-2017, 04:13 PM
lrrifleman's Avatar
lrrifleman lrrifleman is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 2,567
Likes: 2,722
Liked 1,281 Times in 710 Posts
Default

In the original post, it sounds like the problem is with an M&P 15-22. Have you tried different brands of 22s? Have you inspected the bore to see if the lands and grooves are distinct? It is possible that the bullets in your 22s are undersized, and it is possible that the problem lies with the barrel! It is possible that the barrel is severely fouled, or that the rifling is not fully cut. It is also possible that a 0.224 centerfire barrel was mistakenly in with rimfire barrels. If the bore is clear of lead fouling, let the job fall in S&W's hands under warranty!
__________________
Judge control not gun control!

Last edited by lrrifleman; 07-10-2017 at 04:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-10-2017, 08:32 PM
Steve912 Steve912 is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 739
Likes: 765
Liked 575 Times in 321 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Bullet weight shouldn't matter.

No..

Depending on the twist rate some bullets will stabilize better but the only difference down rang should be more or less accuracy depending on the bullet weight.

No..

If rounds are key holing (hitting sideways) there's something wrong with the barrel.

Not necessarily.


Either the lands/groves were cut wrong, or the barrel wasn't finished or it's the wrong diameter.

Not necessarily.


Could be really bad crown.

NO...lol
Ouch!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:03 PM
Arik Arik is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,927
Likes: 6,520
Liked 14,757 Times in 6,365 Posts
Default

Bullet weight doesn't matter (unless you're picking some hard to find obscure weight). Nothing will tumble using a 1/9 twist with weight ranging from 55-77gr. Nothing tumbles using the same weight in 1/7 twist. Groups may open up or shrink but not key hole. Any off the rack AR will shoot 55-77gr just fine. Unless you have some unusual combo of twist and ammo.

Only time I've seen key holing was with poor barrels. And bad crowns do cause key holing. To both of those.....go buy some Century Arms made barrels. Look em up. Years and years worth of key holing problems due to oversized barrels and bad crowns


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-12-2017, 07:48 PM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

The problem is with my mp15. My other ar's are fine. This final test was with Winchester granules recommended for this twist rate. I'll call s&w and see about sending out in. It's a safe queen so its absence is not upsetting.

When I I know more I'll pass it on.

Thanx
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 07-12-2017, 08:00 PM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Not granules. Frangibles.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:07 PM
tg1stlavmt tg1stlavmt is offline
Member
Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15? Tumbling Projectiles from MP-15?  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

As many recommended I contacted S&W. They did not seem overly surprised and sent me a mailing label. I m quite pleased with this as I was wondering why this particular rifle was defeating me.Thanks for the help and I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks again!!

Tim
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
38super 9mm or 38 projectiles???? Marke Reloading 9 01-10-2016 02:17 PM
Projectiles in .9, .38/.357, .40 & .45 mosquito Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 13 02-06-2014 09:57 AM
Count your projectiles..... Lodogg2221 Reloading 32 07-06-2013 02:07 PM
9 MM Projectiles F/S.................... 8ball Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 0 03-20-2012 12:03 AM
Old Projectiles diamond_c The Lounge 13 08-28-2010 11:33 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:38 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)