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Old 08-30-2017, 07:27 PM
SCAR333 SCAR333 is offline
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Is Dagger Defense a reputable brand of red dot sights? I am looking for a budget red dot sight and Dagger Defense, specifically the DDHB, for some reason, keeps getting my attention. They don't seem to cost hundreds of dollars, so many people will likely say that they are junk, but maybe that is just personal opinion... I was going to buy the $20 FieldSport that everybody seems to be raving about, but the DD looks like better quality, while still being affordable.

For what it is worth, my AR will be used for shooting at the range and the .000001 percent chance that I would use/need my AR for home/self defense.

Thank you.
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:47 PM
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You really should step up to a Bushnell TRS 25 or 32, a Holosun, or a budget Primary Arms.

I got my TRS 25 on a killer Black Friday/Christmas sale, and a $25 rebate. Ended up about $40

After further poking around, it might be a decent option. You might go through a few until you get a good one though. It sounds like their QC is mediocre, but customer service is pretty good. The 4 Best EoTech Clones – Knock Off Eotech Reviews 2017 I have a number of Mueller rifle copes, and their Quick Shot is another decent choice. But I like the look of the DDHB knock-off Eotech

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Old 08-30-2017, 08:00 PM
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Racer X nailed it. Those are widely used and get decent reviews. Really no need to be experimenting with budget optics.

I know nothing of Dagger Defense but went to their website. This pic must be their flagship posted on the front page. Mount looks like is was put together from leftover parts.

I went to Amazon. 5th review down on one of their products... lens falls out, replacement not centered properly...

The quality of this item is very lacking from my experience, even for the price. My first one, the plastic "lense" in front (the bluish piece in the picture) completely rattle out just by driving in my vehicle on a dirt road to the range, making it worthless. The customer service was great and they sent me a new one free of charge. However, the next one also looks kinda shady and isn't centered properly in the frame. It aligns fine, but the quality just looks poor and I'm afraid to use it for fear of the problem happening again. I'd definitely buy a different brand.


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Old 08-30-2017, 08:26 PM
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Looks like a knockoff of a high end Aimpoint. There's a reason there's a several hundred dollar difference in price.

I learned the hard way many years (OK, decades) ago about optics. The motto buy quality, cry once is the way to go. That said, some optics may have superlative quality but be beyond both your needs and wallet. Back in 2012 I got to play with a Zeiss prototype, I've bought cars for less, but DAMN!!!! Still wouldn't buy one.

The Bushnell didn't look too bad in the LGS, never tried one myself. By the time I saw one I had 30 years experience with Aimpoint.
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
You really should step up to a Bushnell TRS 25 or 32, a Holosun, or a budget Primary Arms.

I got my TRS 25 on a killer Black Friday/Christmas sale, and a $25 rebate. Ended up about $40

After further poking around, it might be a decent option. You might go through a few until you get a good one though. It sounds like their QC is mediocre, but customer service is pretty good. The 4 Best EoTech Clones Knock Off Eotech Reviews 2017 I have a number of Mueller rifle copes, and their Quick Shot is another decent choice. But I like the look of the DDHB knock-off Eotech
I have read a few reviews that said the newer (silver or white lettering) TRS-25s have some issues, as opposed to the first batch (yellow/gold lettering) being squared away. Anything to that?
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:58 PM
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I've read that too about the TRS-25. Too bad. I suspect mine is the earlier one. It's on my back-up Ruger 22/45 Bullseye pistol.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:52 AM
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Aimpoint of course are great, I have a Micro. I also have a couple sub $100 Primary Arms Micros. I've had this one (pic below) for several years. It's now on my wife's AR.

There are so many budget optics these days it can make yer head spin. My suggestion when choosing a budget optic is to pick one that has many years and hundreds of positive reviews on this Forum. For the OP's stated purpose I think the Primary Arms is tough to beat. They are great people to do business with.

Here's the one on the wife's AR. Works good as new. Notice the riser mount isn't an erector set of parts like the DD... and it kinda sorta resembles my Aimpoint.



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Old 08-31-2017, 02:56 PM
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Me being me, I continued to look around. I came across the TruGlo Tru Tec 20mm red dot. Alot of good reviews, and alot of features (auto on/off, for one.) Great price point (anywhere from $115 - $150).

I have always been a fan of TruGlo (started with archery) and would love to support that company.

However, the Primary Arms RBG2 is looking pretty good as well, and not hating the price point either...

Does anybody here have any takes on these two sights?
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:05 PM
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I've read that too about the TRS-25. Too bad. I suspect mine is the earlier one. It's on my back-up Ruger 22/45 Bullseye pistol.

Mine are great but ..... old.... I have been seeing these comments the past couple of years,,,,,

I may look at Primary Arms in the future for budget optics.......thou I did stick a Vortex Vipor on my 15-22 on a Dagger Defense quick detach riser (got it in 2 days on Prime).... which so far (500rds) is working well.... and doesn't look anything like Phil's picture.......

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Old 08-31-2017, 03:15 PM
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Dagger Defense quick detach riser (got it in 2 days on Prime).... which so far (500rds) is working well.... and doesn't look anything like Phil's picture.......
Pitiful ain't it.

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Old 08-31-2017, 03:48 PM
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However, the Primary Arms RBG2 is looking pretty good as well, and not hating the price point either...
I particularly like the way that one is designed with the removable short base, and the screw pattern in the bottom of the optic is just like Aimpoint. You will need the riser they sell for it for another $25 to use it on an Ar platform. You simply unscrew the the short base and then install the riser. So no triple decker riser bolt up mess like pictured above.

The other nice thing is that when you want to put something else on your AR you'll have more flexibility with the different bases to put the red dot on different rifle platforms or handguns. Same optic on one of my Ruger pistols.


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Old 08-31-2017, 04:03 PM
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I never heard of the brand myself....
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:02 PM
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I particularly like the way that one is designed with the removable short base, and the screw pattern in the bottom of the optic is just like Aimpoint. You will need the riser they sell for it for another $25 to use it on an Ar platform. You simply unscrew the the short base and then install the riser. So no triple decker riser bolt up mess like pictured above.

The other nice thing is that when you want to put something else on your AR you'll have more flexibility with the different bases to put the red dot on different rifle platforms or handguns. Same optic on one of my Ruger pistols.

I am assuming that the PA micro sight is adequate enough for an AR15? Also, will it not fit on a regular riser mount?
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:27 PM
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I am assuming that the PA micro sight is adequate enough for an AR15? Also, will it not fit on a regular riser mount?
Sure, Primary Arms has sold countless Micros for use on ARs. Of course they are not duty worthy.

Keep your eye out for Labor Day sales. Vortex have been selling cheap at Palmetto State Armory. Vortex Sparc including 10 PMAGS for $199. The larger Vortex Strikefire II with 10 PMAGS is $179 free shipping. Attractive deals for someone needing magazines. Vortex also has a lifetime warranty.

The design of the Primary Arms removable short base is for any Aimpoint pattern riser to secure directly into the optic. Are you're asking if you can you leave the short base on the optic then use a generic picatinny riser mount along with it? Yes, you can. That would be the same method as the Bushnell TRS-25 that has a non-removable short base.

Here's how the removable base works. (pics plucked off the Net)

There are four screw holes in the bottom of the optic. That's how the short base or riser base is designed to be secured to the optic.

Optic, short base and riser base.



Remove short base.



Install riser base.



Very clean mounting design.

--------------

Non-removable base like the Bushnell TRS 25 looks like this. Short base mounting to riser base.


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Old 09-01-2017, 01:10 AM
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You will find the Tru Glo True Tec on Amazon for anywhere from $105-120. It IS a rebranded Holosun 503G. That's right, same Holosun quality and performance, and the Tru Glo comes with decent enough mounting bases too. Last count I think I have six of them and no problems at all. My Tru Glo red dots reside on .556, .300 BO, and 7.62x39 AR's and AK's.

I also have a couple of the A3 Tactical red dots from Amazon. These are really nice budget red dots and run $84 including the riser. I also have had great luck with these. Of course they are not as feature rich as the Tru Glo's but the glass and clarity of the dot is nice and they have always held zero with no problems.

I have never bought a Bushnell TRS-25 because I don't want a dot any larger than 2 MOA, so that has always eliminated the TRS-25 from my consideration.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:01 PM
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The thing with any optic is, it's not what's on the outside that matters. It's the stuff you can't see that makes the difference between low and high quality. It might look tough on the outside, but that doesn't mean the lenses are installed properly or the electronics are durable.

If you're on such a tight budget that you're trying to find the best $20 optic, stick with the products that have already been tested by others. Otherwise, you'll spend $20 on this optic and then $40 when that one breaks and then $80 on another when you finally realize that's what you should have bought in the first place. Save $60 and buy the $80 one in the first place.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:26 PM
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You will find the Tru Glo True Tec on Amazon for anywhere from $105-120. It IS a rebranded Holosun 503G. That's right, same Holosun quality and performance, and the Tru Glo comes with decent enough mounting bases too. Last count I think I have six of them and no problems at all. My Tru Glo red dots reside on .556, .300 BO, and 7.62x39 AR's and AK's.

I also have a couple of the A3 Tactical red dots from Amazon. These are really nice budget red dots and run $84 including the riser. I also have had great luck with these. Of course they are not as feature rich as the Tru Glo's but the glass and clarity of the dot is nice and they have always held zero with no problems.

I have never bought a Bushnell TRS-25 because I don't want a dot any larger than 2 MOA, so that has always eliminated the TRS-25 from my consideration.
I have all but made my mind up that I am going to go with the TruGlo. You have put me over the fence on it. It is good to hear that you have so many of them, which tells me that they are good quality optics. Plus, it is hard to beat all of those features at that price. Thank you.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:48 PM
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Lifetime warranty, 10 PMAGS, free shipping.

Vortex Sparc Red Dot Scope & Ten Magpul PMAG 30rd Magazines
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:59 PM
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OpticsPlanet currently has the Bushnell on sale for $80 ($85 with a battery), but I am skeptical as to whether or not it is the new one (silver lettering) or the old one (gold lettering), even though the picture has the gold lettering.

Phil, that is very tempting, but the extra mags will cause me to spend more money on ammo, plus I am trying to keep it around $100 - $150.
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:47 PM
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If any of you guys have ever considered getting a Trijicon RMR for your AR or handgun... Cabela's has the 3.25 and 6.5moa for $261 delivered. Never ever seen a price like that. Less than half price. Just ordered one... now I need to find a place for it.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:20 PM
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Did you go for he 3.25 or the 6 MOA?
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:30 PM
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3.25.......

I think it would go well on one of my suppressed Rugers, the wife's AR or maybe one of my Glocks.

Buddy of mine just bought one. $247 with military discount.

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Old 09-03-2017, 03:11 PM
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And... there is a new player in the game...

Sig Sauer ROMEO5 1x20mm 2 MOA Red Dot | Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore

And go!
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Old 09-03-2017, 03:33 PM
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And... there is a new player in the game...

Sig Sauer ROMEO5 1x20mm 2 MOA Red Dot | Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore

And go!
Just another cheap, Chinese made red dot... same advice as above... go with a known budget model, unless you want to be a guinea pig. Order what you want from a reputable source... if it is bad, return it.
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Old 09-03-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
If any of you guys have ever considered getting a Trijicon RMR for your AR or handgun... Cabela's has the 3.25 and 6.5moa for $261 delivered. Never ever seen a price like that. Less than half price. Just ordered one... now I need to find a place for it.
Got a link for that? All I can find on their website is the $491 version.
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:30 PM
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Got a link for that? All I can find on their website is the $491 version.
Sold out.

I'm not that familiar with Trijicon but I think it's their Gen1 version. Should be good enough for range use. Heck, I paid near that much for a lousy Burris FFIII. Maybe put in on one of my suppressed Rugers .22s or get a LaRue mount and put it on the wife's AR. I've got a Gen2 Glop 17 that I have relegated to range duty. Maybe that'll give me a project. Friend of mine who is more familiar with trijicon bought one at the same time. He got the military discount... $245

Trijicon RMR(R) LED Reflex Sight : Cabela's

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Old 09-03-2017, 04:43 PM
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I thought the so called "Gen 1" was changed long ago. If it is an original, it's been sitting around for a long time.

I have a Trijicon RMR, the RM08G. I can tell you that it's the toughest sight I've ever laid hands on. This sight has had the snot beat out of it. I've accidentally slammed it up against rocks, metal poles, dropped it on the ground and even my receiver hitch once on purpose, just to demonstrate how tough it really is. Amazing optics.
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:51 PM
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Looks like a knockoff of a high end Aimpoint. There's a reason there's a several hundred dollar difference in price.

I learned the hard way many years (OK, decades) ago about optics. The motto buy quality, cry once is the way to go. That said, some optics may have superlative quality but be beyond both your needs and wallet. Back in 2012 I got to play with a Zeiss prototype, I've bought cars for less, but DAMN!!!! Still wouldn't buy one.

The Bushnell didn't look too bad in the LGS, never tried one myself. By the time I saw one I had 30 years experience with Aimpoint.
I agree with you and learned the same lesson. I buy as good as I can afford of the well known top brands. Cheap optics cost more in the long run when you have to replace them with stuff that actually works.
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:12 PM
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I thought the so called "Gen 1" was changed long ago. If it is an original, it's been sitting around for a long time.

I have a Trijicon RMR, the RM08G. I can tell you that it's the toughest sight I've ever laid hands on. This sight has had the snot beat out of it. I've accidentally slammed it up against rocks, metal poles, dropped it on the ground and even my receiver hitch once on purpose, just to demonstrate how tough it really is. Amazing optics.
Maybe its not a Gen1, I really don't know that much about Trijicon. Seems to match up with what's on Trijicon's website. Anyway... I'll have something to look forward to in the mail.

RM01 Type 2 RMR - Trijicon, Inc.
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