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Old 09-01-2017, 02:30 PM
SCAR333 SCAR333 is offline
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Default It is probably just me being paranoid, but...

...will this be an issue (refer to the picture)? The grip is just barely touching the magazine well, and I mean barely... I am assuming that this will not cause any issues with sighting in the rifle, or anything else for that matter? Worse case scenario, I could just take a file to it very lightly and it will no longer be touching, but I prefer to not modify things that way if I don't have to.

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Old 09-01-2017, 03:03 PM
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I assume you're referring to the forward handguard, if so, that shouldn't cause any problem. Your picture didn't come through. Pohotobucket said you need to up date your account to allow third party hosting?

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Old 09-01-2017, 04:05 PM
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Hopefully this works...

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:08 PM
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No pic, you don't need photobucket.
Just post pic directly from your album to here.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:09 PM
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PhotoBucket changed it's Terms Of Service and no longer allows Third Party Hosting (what your trying to do).

You can attach photo files directly to the thread, or use another service.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:22 PM
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:55 PM
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Hopefully this worked...
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:01 PM
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Ummm, how in the world wide of sports shooting do you have that mounted?

Can you take a pic further back? Need to see what you've got going on there.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:34 PM
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I had it mounted like that so the entire flashlight mount would fit flush. However, I was able to move it one slot forward and still mount the flashlight, even though the flashlight is now sticking one slot off of the front of the rail. It shouldn't be an issue for the shooting that I do. And, if for some reason, SHTF (not that I think it will), it will work in a pinch.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:49 PM
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Hey Rastoff, there's your California upper hinge limiter.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Hey Rastoff, there's your California upper hinge limiter.
It should now be clear for breakdown purposes. If not, it wouldn't take 30 seconds to undo the screw, slide the grip forward, and unhinge the upper.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:58 PM
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May I suggest that you mount the light at either the 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock position and then move the AFG all the way forward on the handguard?
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:14 PM
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...if it's dark...and you have a light on your gun...won't the bad guy know exactly where to shoot?...i.e. at the light...

...I'd rather the bad guy had a light on his gun so I'd know exactly where to shoot... i.e. at the light...
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:22 PM
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Without a light how would you even know that it's a "bad guy"?
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:39 PM
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Without a light how would you even know that it's a "bad guy"?
You ground check 'em!
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:03 PM
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SMH, like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:04 PM
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Without a light how would you even know that it's a "bad guy"?
...just tell them to point their light at their face so you can decide whether or not to shoot...
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Hey Rastoff, there's your California upper hinge limiter.
Yep, I had the same idea, just not using the AFG.

I'm with cyphertext here. I'd add a rail at 10 o'clock and move the light up there. Kinda like this:

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Old 09-01-2017, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
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...if it's dark...and you have a light on your gun...won't the bad guy know exactly where to shoot?...i.e. at the light...

...I'd rather the bad guy had a light on his gun so I'd know exactly where to shoot... i.e. at the light...
Ahh but you are missing the finer details, see he has a scope and a light, so the light must be a 100k lumen beast to light up the target at 200+yards. No one is going to be able to look at a light that bright let alone shoot at it, they'd be instantly and permanently blinded, and then shot (across the 250yard great banquet hall he has in his house). Ultimate SHTF home defense setup the scope + AFG + mega-light combo, well know in operator circles but not really outside of them.

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Hey Rastoff, there's your California upper hinge limiter.
LMAO
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
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...if it's dark...and you have a light on your gun...won't the bad guy know exactly where to shoot?...i.e. at the light...

...I'd rather the bad guy had a light on his gun so I'd know exactly where to shoot... i.e. at the light...
That's why they put a momentary switch on em such as Streamlight's paddle switch. One side you can bounce it on and off and the other side is a on/off switch. With someone able to shoot back I rather think one would not turn on the light and leave it on.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:39 PM
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Ahh but you are missing the finer details, see he has a scope and a light, so the light must be a 100k lumen beast to light up the target at 200+yards. No one is going to be able to look at a light that bright let alone shoot at it, they'd be instantly and permanently blinded, and then shot (across the 250yard great banquet hall he has in his house). Ultimate SHTF home defense setup the scope + AFG + mega-light combo, well know in operator circles but not really outside of them.



LMAO
The scope is on there so I can hunt this year (near the end of my recovery from open-heart surgery/less recoil than my .270).

I am not going to mount the flashlight until after hunting season, and I put everything back to how it was/how I want it to be (red dot/light/pressure switch). I am always planning ahead, so I wanted to go ahead and put them on to see how they would fit. Like I mentioned before, I have no intention/desire to use my AR for home/self defense, unless the .00000001% chance of SHTF breaking out occurs...

I am thinking that getting a three slot rail, and mounting it at 2 o'clock, will be the best way to go.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:44 PM
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Old 09-02-2017, 11:19 AM
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The light mount I pictured above will fit just about any typical AR Flash light (my light is exceptionally large, well the light bezel anyway)..
At any rate, I really like this mount, it keeps the light right in line with the barrel, and is well forward and out of the way, I've shot a lot, and thus far zero issues..
they make them in a few various colors as well, and i'm pretty sure they have options now, for quick release swivel strap ends. (even though I can still use a regular strap, which just happens to not be on my riffle in this pic, also the light can be moved forward farther etc, the above pic of mine was just a quicky pic when I first mounted it, to show the off set from the barrel for another reason, hence the red line and CTC distance)..
Almost forgot to add, the "mount" comes with a quick release SCREW, so you can quickly, and easily remove the light from the mount any time ya want.. the Screw is NOT in the mount in my pic above, as again I just took this pic right quick after first installing it.. you can see the hole where the quick release screw goes..

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https://www.environmentalled.com/Elzetta-ZFH1500-Front-Sight-Base-Holder-Black-p143.html?src=GPS_Eled&gp_id=ElzettaoZFH1500oFrontoSightoBaseoHolderoBlack&gclid=CjwKCAjwranNBRBhEiwASu908KnyupAW59mvG-MZrt8Uf-lIQS4i4lyj_zAfaZv9ABxAOLgXMwfHfRoCVk4QAvD_BwE

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Old 09-02-2017, 11:31 AM
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This is the quick release strap mount they make to go with it, but man pricey! ugh

ZSS1500D Ambidextrous QD Sling Swivel Kit - Elzetta Tactical Lighting
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Old 09-03-2017, 01:42 AM
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That's why they put a momentary switch on em such as Streamlight's paddle switch.
Any weapon mounted light needs a momentary switch.

The proper way to use it is:
  • Light on - examine area (1.5 seconds or less)
  • Light off - move to new location
  • - Repeat as necessary

Used any other way is a ticket to being shot.
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Old 09-03-2017, 12:18 PM
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Technically you shouldn't be using a weapon mounted light to ID a target. "Never point a weapon at something your not willing to destroy". Just saying..

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Old 09-03-2017, 01:27 PM
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If you can't identify your target,how do you know it's not friendly.If you hear a noise in the night,how do you know that other people in the house might be investigating the noise.If you do a little research you would be amazed how many friendly's are shot each year.If you ck out some of the experienced people on you tube,ex armed forces ,police officers,they tell you the first thing to add to your rifle is a white light,for home defense.imo.
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Old 09-03-2017, 02:02 PM
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Technically you shouldn't be using a weapon mounted light to ID a target. "Never point a weapon at something your not willing to destroy". Just saying..

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I get what you are saying, but you don't have to point the light (and the rifle) at something to ID it. A light pointed up at a white ceiling in a house illuminates a room for IDing.

But yes, at some point, that light and rifle could be pointing at something you do not wish to shoot... That is where the other 3 safety rules come into play... If you fail at one but the others are still followed, an accident is avoidable.
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Old 09-03-2017, 02:24 PM
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So how does it shoot? Isn't the "purpose" of accessories to improve accuracy?
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Old 09-03-2017, 03:37 PM
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Technically you shouldn't be using a weapon mounted light to ID a target. "Never point a weapon at something your not willing to destroy". Just saying..
Indeed you are correct. This debate goes round and round. There are pros and cons any time you use a firearm.

One night I heard a noise in the back yard and went to investigate (probably not the smartest idea). Anyway, I had a handgun with a weapon mounted light (WML). As I was searching, using the method I listed above, I noticed that I muzzled my dog. I removed my light and now use a hand held light. Yes, I practice with the light.

However, I like to continually learn and update my processes. As cyphertext said, you don't have to point the light directly at something to ID it. A WML can illuminate a room by just pointing at the ground, it doesn't even need to be a shiny surface. This is easily verified any night at your own home.

That method doesn't work as well outside. But, if I'm searching outside, I know where all my family members are and anyone that I point my muzzle/light at is not supposed to be there anyway.
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:26 PM
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I get what you are saying, but you don't have to point the light (and the rifle) at something to ID it. A light pointed up at a white ceiling in a house illuminates a room for IDing.
And softly and perfectly illuminates you for shooting at much more clearly than a blinding light in the eyes of an intruder. A WML serves two purposes. Helping you see the bad guy, and preventimg him from seeing you . . .
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:40 PM
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And softly and perfectly illuminates you for shooting at much more clearly than a blinding light in the eyes of an intruder. A WML serves two purposes. Helping you see the bad guy, and preventimg him from seeing you . . .
True... Just depends on your level of comfort and competence with pointing a loaded weapon at another person who may or may not be an intruder.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:49 PM
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True... Just depends on your level of comfort and competence with pointing a loaded weapon at another person who may or may not be an intruder.
I'm good . . .
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:33 PM
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I'm good . . .
Well, since the question was brought up, obviously not everyone here is as good as you.

ETA: While my reply is snarky, there is some truth to it. I don't know what Muss's background and training is, or his environment... maybe he is ex Delta and has no trouble pointing a weapon at someone before positively IDing them, or maybe he lives alone so anyone in his house is an intruder.... With me, I have a wife in the house full time, and a son in college. I wouldn't want to find myself pointing my firearm at my son because he came home one weekend without telling me. So while Muss may just point the light directly at the person to blind them while identifying them, I'm more likely to bounce the light to identify the target, unless I know exactly where my wife and my son are.

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Old 09-04-2017, 12:03 AM
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I've lit up more then one person with my WML... but I didn't pull the trigger.. didn't need to..

Pointing a weapon at someone wont hurt them.. but pulling the Trigger will..
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:39 AM
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Well, since the question was brought up, obviously not everyone here is as good as you.
Just a point of parliamentary procedure, but around these parts, "I'm good" in that context means "I'm satisfied with the current situation . . . " or "I got this . . ." The words are pronounced with equal, understated emphasis.
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:02 AM
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I've lit up more then one person with my WML... but I didn't pull the trigger.. didn't need to..

Pointing a weapon at someone wont hurt them.. but pulling the Trigger will..
I don't know how the law is where you live, but in Michigan, if you are out in public and you are not a LEO, if you point a gun at someone and it is determined you did not have the right to do so, you will probably be arrested, lose you gun(s) and you carry permit. You may also do some jail time.
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:34 AM
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Got an Echo in the bedroom. We can turn on the lights in any part of the house. "Alexa... Livingroom on" (at night with no other noise you can quietly whisper and Alexa works great. Figure it will probably scare away the bad guy and I can go back to sleep. Besides, my AR is in the safe.
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:24 AM
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Technically you shouldn't be using a weapon mounted light to ID a target. "Never point a weapon at something your not willing to destroy". Just saying..

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It's interesting how this went from "my grip is touching" to the "virtues of a wml".

Of course I just HAD to help it along with my above post. "Click bait" if you will.

I didn't realize how many professional gunfighters/operators/SWAT/SF/Delta Force/LEO/SAS/CIA/Seal Team 6, etc are on this forum.

To be able to give freely, such wonderful training advice and actual use tips for FREE is so generous! Look at how much TigerSwan/Gunsight/Sig Sauer Academy charge! Forget that! I'm cancelling my next training class and just coming here to learn all I need to know.

Thanks for the show! It is probably just me being paranoid, but...


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Old 09-04-2017, 12:25 PM
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I don't know how the law is where you live, but in Michigan, if you are out in public and you are not a LEO, if you point a gun at someone and it is determined you did not have the right to do so, you will probably be arrested, lose you gun(s) and you carry permit. You may also do some jail time.
Correct...

I wasn't referring to running around in public pointing weapons with, or without lights on them at people....

Spent some years living in FLINT's lower east side..
It's madness over there..

I have had "Thugs" come up in my yard, on my porch, take shots at my house etc..

One day, I had a friend over who had his young daughter with him (she was maybe 9?)
anyway, He and his daughter were in the side yard playing, and I had stepped in my house for a sec, then I heard a BOOM!..
I "grabbed", ran to my front door, and there was a gansta thug IDIOT literally walking down the middle of the road, with a 12 gauge in which he had just blasted off..

The dude was yelling some BS etc. so I zeroed in on his head, and had he of pointed that towards my yard at all, he would have been dropped.. this is not related to a light, but just saying..

Another time I did lite someone up on my porch (with my WML).. I heard my door rattling, Knew it was wrong (NOT someone coming home, visiting etc, was very late at night)..

Next thing I know, my door swings open, and they got blinded by a VERY bright lite, they RAN..
THE END..

All that said, I would much prefer not to point anything at anyone, but depending on the situation, I do see a good use for a WML..

The light on my AR does have a pressure switch (not connected in my pic above), anyway, one tap is solid light, two taps is strobe.. Which can be debilitating to someone un expecting..

Last edited by Pro2nd; 09-04-2017 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 09-04-2017, 04:49 PM
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Just a few minor points, a WML on a long gun is very helpful as it allows maximum control of both light and firearm. Also can allow you to keep something illuminated and still open a door. Yes, a separate hand held light is a good thing.

The light exposes your position. Inside a house, especially one with walls painted re-lo white, there's enough reflection that virtually any light is going to allow you to be seen. NVG anyone?

Light mounts-at least non-metallic ones-should never be mounted on the front sight tower. If you've never noticed, it can get quite hot. I'm sure they refer to the material as "heat resistant" but that may be a highly subjective label.

The multi function light with one switch has it's own set of issues. How exactly does one skip a function? Do you have to cycle through the whole menu to turn the cotton picking thing off? When things get exciting, exactly how to you figure out where you are on the menu? I stuck an extra o-ring under the cap of my some of my lights so I only have a momentary switch. The Streamlight paddles are a good option. The tape switches less so-yeah they work, but wait till you have to buy a new one!

Last edited by WR Moore; 09-04-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:29 PM
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My light don't get hot.. At worst, it only gets a bit warm, and that takes a WHILE!..

As far as "cycling through".. Mine is steady on, or flash..
I can tap the pressure switch in roughly .02seconds and switch to either.

That said, I'm honestly not worried about exposing my position, because by the time someone mentally grasp it, it would be too late anyway...
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by agksimon View Post
I don't know how the law is where you live, but in Michigan, if you are out in public and you are not a LEO, if you point a gun at someone and it is determined you did not have the right to do so, you will probably be arrested, lose you gun(s) and you carry permit. You may also do some jail time.
Why would you be pointing a gun at someone when you didn't need to shoot?

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Got an Echo in the bedroom.
This is better than any WML.

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My light don't get hot.. At worst, it only gets a bit warm, and that takes a WHILE!..
He was talking about the gas block not the light.


Exposing your position, not exposing, blinding...these are all just different ways of looking at things. Hand held or WML, both have pros and cons. Me, I'm staying put and waiting for the bad guy to come to me. This eliminates the chance of shooting a household member. They would announce before coming into my room.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:38 AM
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He was talking about the gas block not the light.

.
Yeah I realize that now.. but its still not an issue, I have blasted through full 30's and it did not effect/hurt my mount at all..

Last edited by Pro2nd; 09-05-2017 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:41 AM
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Just out of curiosity, is your light mount plastic? If so, what brand?
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:27 AM
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Just out of curiosity, is your light mount plastic? If so, what brand?
glass-filled polymer.. manufactured in the USA..

ZFH1500 - Elzetta Tactical Lighting

Last edited by Pro2nd; 09-05-2017 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:59 PM
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I made the comment about the light mount based on a strange smell that made its presence known during a night fire portion of an instructors course. After we got back in the light, we found out what caused it. Don't know the brand involved, but as they say, it was a teaching moment.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:10 AM
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That light mount kinda dovetails with another discussion about different types of handguards. There just isn't much real estate on a standard carbine handguard to accommodate much more than the support hand... which can manifest into less than ideal mounting solutions.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:22 AM
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Really, back to the original question. Get a differentl mount for your light and then move that AFG forward to get the entire thing in contact with the rail. That hanging over the edge stuff is not the best idea.
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