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Old 09-05-2017, 04:27 PM
goodoboy goodoboy is offline
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Hello,

Well, I am doing some research on AR-15 and decided I want to buy a S&W AR-15 for personal/family/home protection, fun shooting at the out door range, and hog hunting (a year from now). And just general target shooting. I have a shot friend AR before.

Rifles | Smith & Wesson I am searching here.

I am on this page and believe I want this one. M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson

Needs/Wants:
1 .5.56/.223 caliber
2. ability to add scope, grip, flashlight, etc in the future
3. learning how to clean it the gun and first thing to do and
perform maintenance

Budget
$400 to $700

I plan to visit a few gun stores to review the rifle I plan to buy just to see and hold it.

Few Questions please

1. What is the difference between gas operated and blow back? See attachment.

2. Are the front sights adjustable? I was concerned can not see out of a scope because of the front sights.

3. What ammo do you recommend for target shooting?

4. What are first thing you recommend I do when i first purchase the gun?

Thanks for the help. So far my pick is this one: M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson

Thanks alot
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:43 PM
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1. What is the difference between gas operated and blow back? See attachment.
In the case of 223/556 ARs, you don't have to worry about this. It'll either be a DI vs Piston, long story short on that one, personal preference (I prefer DI). But since you wanted to know, gas operated=uses the gases from the round to help cycle the action instead of newton's 3rd law in the case of blow back (generally blow backs are for handgun rounds or rimfires). The reason why you see blow back as an option is for the M&P15 22 which fires the 22lr.

2. Are the front sights adjustable? I was concerned can not see out of a scope because of the front sights.
Yup, you'll just need a tool found just about anywhere to adjust the front sight post.

3. What ammo do you recommend for target shooting?
Cheapest you can find that your rifle will shoot (which should be all)

4. What are first thing you recommend I do when i first purchase the gun?
Shoot it.. A LOT.. Once you shoot it enough and become familiar enough with it, you'll find what you want to change without having to ask should I change this or that.. It might just be which do I want between the brands/models on that particular thing you want to change..
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:48 PM
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The Sport II is a great first AR-15!

Let's answer your questions...

1. Gas operated means that there is a port where the gasses are bled off from the barrel and routed back to push the bolt back. The port sits under the gas block, which is part of the front sight on the Sport II.

Blow back is simply operated by recoil. The .22lr works in this manner.

2. Yes, the front sights are adjustable, but not in the sense of folding them out of the way of the scope. However, with a 4x or higher magnification, the front sight will ghost out and not be seen in the scope.

3. Lots of ammo available. Check with your range first to insure they do not have any restrictions... if no restrictions, FMJ in 55 gr or 62 gr that is brass cased and from a reputable manufacturer will work.

4. I recommend that you read the manual and clean the rifle. After that, put at least 500 rounds down range before you start reading about modifying the rifle.

Good Luck!
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
The Sport II is a great first AR-15!

Let's answer your questions...

1. Gas operated means that there is a port where the gasses are bled off from the barrel and routed back to push the bolt back. The port sits under the gas block, which is part of the front sight on the Sport II.

Blow back is simply operated by recoil. The .22lr works in this manner.

2. Yes, the front sights are adjustable, but not in the sense of folding them out of the way of the scope. However, with a 4x or higher magnification, the front sight will ghost out and not be seen in the scope.

3. Lots of ammo available. Check with your range first to insure they do not have any restrictions... if no restrictions, FMJ in 55 gr or 62 gr that is brass cased and from a reputable manufacturer will work.

4. I recommend that you read the manual and clean the rifle. After that, put at least 500 rounds down range before you start reading about modifying the rifle.

Good Luck!
Excellent suggestions and info. Only thing I would add, is buy extra mags. I've got 4 that I normally use at the range, plus 6 extra sitting in a drawer at the house. And I plan on getting more.

As to a scope, got a 3x9 mounted on mine. At the 3x setting, there is no sign of the front sight. If you go with a Red Dot, the front sight will be visible. However, that setup is the way it's designed to be.
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:51 PM
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With the availability of AR parts I honestly believe it's better to build or have one built rather than buying one pre made. Most people buy a pre build doesn't matter who the company is Smith, Colt, Ruger, Etc. and then start taking off parts and replacing them with something they like better. Rather then buying parts twice just start from scratch and get what you want the first time.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snm8510 View Post
1. What is the difference between gas operated and blow back? See attachment.
In the case of 223/556 ARs, you don't have to worry about this. It'll either be a DI vs Piston, long story short on that one, personal preference (I prefer DI). But since you wanted to know, gas operated=uses the gases from the round to help cycle the action instead of newton's 3rd law in the case of blow back (generally blow backs are for handgun rounds or rimfires). The reason why you see blow back as an option is for the M&P15 22 which fires the 22lr.

2. Are the front sights adjustable? I was concerned can not see out of a scope because of the front sights.
Yup, you'll just need a tool found just about anywhere to adjust the front sight post.

3. What ammo do you recommend for target shooting?
Cheapest you can find that your rifle will shoot (which should be all)

4. What are first thing you recommend I do when i first purchase the gun?
Shoot it.. A LOT.. Once you shoot it enough and become familiar enough with it, you'll find what you want to change without having to ask should I change this or that.. It might just be which do I want between the brands/models on that particular thing you want to change..
Thank you snm8510 for the response

Few questions please:

1. So the M&P®15 SPORT™ II is Gas Operated Semi-Auto action, does this mean the rifle is Direct Impingement gas driven or gas piston. I am bit confused.

Last edited by goodoboy; 09-05-2017 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:48 PM
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Hello,

What is the difference between Optics Ready M&P(R)15 SPORT™ II Optics Ready | Smith & Wesson

and M&P®15 SPORT™ II

M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson

Thanks
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoboy View Post
Hello,

What is the difference between Optics Ready M&P(R)15 SPORT™ II Optics Ready | Smith & Wesson

and M&P®15 SPORT™ II

M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson

Thanks
The optics ready version does not include sights... just a railed gas block that you can install a front sight on, and the railed top on the receiver.

Made specifically to use an optic as the primary sighting system.

Last edited by cyphertext; 09-05-2017 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoboy View Post
Thank you snm8510 for the response

Few questions please:

1. So the M&P®15 SPORT™ II is Gas Operated Semi-Auto action, does this mean the rifle is Direct Impingement gas driven or gas piston. I am bit confused.
Direct impingement. The gases are routed back to push directly on the bolt carrier.

A piston AR has a piston that the gases operate. The piston pushes an operating rod that drives the bolt carrier back. Piston is said to be cleaner, but is proprietary... stick with direct impingement, especially for the first one.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy52 View Post
With the availability of AR parts I honestly believe it's better to build or have one built rather than buying one pre made. Most people buy a pre build doesn't matter who the company is Smith, Colt, Ruger, Etc. and then start taking off parts and replacing them with something they like better. Rather then buying parts twice just start from scratch and get what you want the first time.
A person that is this unfamiliar with the platform is probably better served purchasing the first rifle so that they have customer service and warranty. When you build it yourself, you are your own tech support...
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
The optics ready version does not include sights... just a railed gas block that you can install a front sight on, and the railed top on the receiver.

Made specifically to use an optic as the primary sighting system.
Thank you cyphertext for the response,

I am assuming for the M&P®15 SPORT™ II (M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson) once I remove both sights, then it will be same as optics ready?

Thanks
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy52 View Post
With the availability of AR parts I honestly believe it's better to build or have one built rather than buying one pre made. Most people buy a pre build doesn't matter who the company is Smith, Colt, Ruger, Etc. and then start taking off parts and replacing them with something they like better. Rather then buying parts twice just start from scratch and get what you want the first time.
Thanks andy52 for the suggestions.

At this stage, I rather just buy an AR pre built until I learn more about the mechanics of the rifle. I am not ready at all to start building rifles for sure. Its too early for me.
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by goodoboy View Post
Thank you cyphertext for the response,

I am assuming for the M&P®15 SPORT™ II (M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson) once I remove both sights, then it will be same as optics ready?

Thanks
No, you can't just "remove the sights" on the regular Sport II... That fixed front sight is also the gas block. If you remove it, you have to replace it with another gas block, either a low profile type, or a railed one like on the optics ready.

There is no need to remove the front sight on the Sport II, unless you plan to use less than 3 - 4 x magnification.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:01 PM
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The most common thing I see new Sport buyers change is the carbine length handguard to a longer freefloat handguard.
My suggestion is to understand handguard options before pressing the buy button on any AR. It will also lead to understanding about iron sight options.

Happy AR hunting.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 09-05-2017 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:54 PM
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The first thing to do with any weapon is to break it down as much as the manual suggests and check it for bad parts / badly installed parts - etc.. You don't want a gun that has a part installed wrong that may blow up in your face. I check "every" firearm I buy before I shoot it.

There are better types of ammo for target shooting. Target shooters generally roll their own (re-load) but there are good brands off the shelf like Black Hills ammo. Every rifle is different. If you want maximum accuracy I suggest trying several different types and brands of ammo to see which shoots better in your particular rifle.

For the first AR I'd say buy one pre-built like the Sport II. The warranty alone makes it a good deal. And you won't get burned by a badly built rifle (which I have been although it was an AK and not an AR). My second AR was built by someone but by then I knew a lot more about what I was getting and what to expect.

I wouldn't worry about changing parts until you shoot a lot. You may find that you don't need to change anything. The only thing I changed on my Sport was the handguard. I wanted one with an actual heat shield. That's probably the weakest part of a Sport. Some say to change out to a free floated design. My Sport shoots really accurate with the stock setup. I can shoot about a 5" group at 135 yards shooting off hand with my Sport. It's going to be a challenge to get one to shoot better than that. You may make it worse instead of better. If the accuracy doesn't suit you as it comes then you might go with a free floated design. I have other rifles that are certainly more accurate because of being free floated but again my Sport shoots plenty good without that. I've seen reviews that say it's going to be hard to make a Sport shoot better just by changing to a free floated design. I'd have to see it to believe it to be honest.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
No, you can't just "remove the sights" on the regular Sport II... That fixed front sight is also the gas block. If you remove it, you have to replace it with another gas block, either a low profile type, or a railed one like on the optics ready.

There is no need to remove the front sight on the Sport II, unless you plan to use less than 3 - 4 x magnification.
Thank you cyphertext for responding to me.

I am concerned the front sights will interfere with scope shooting.

What do you mean 'less than 3 - 4 x magnification"?

I do plan to add a scope on the AR for hog hunting (maybe deer as well). I am not sure what scope I need to get, I haven't read this far into it.

Thanks,
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:42 PM
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I have to agree with CJ's last paragraph since I have some recent first hand experience with this. I did build another AR with a free floated hand guard because I am using it at 300yrds+. However, my Sport II is stock, and IMHO, unless you are shooting past 300yrds, you will not notice much benefit in accuracy from a free floated hand guard until the barrel gets heated up. It will take several rounds for the barrel to heat up enough to make a difference. Of course, the type of ammo and how fast you fire those rounds will make a difference, but for the average shooter, I'd say you would need to fire at least 20rds in quick succession before the barrel would be hot enough to notice any difference in accuracy at less than 300yrds. If you are the typical target shooter who will shoot a group or two and then let the rifle cool while you check results or make adjustments, then you are never going to notice any difference.
If you are the type who is going to empty 30rd mags as quick as you can just for the sake of doing so, then you will want a heat shield and/or a free floated guard to help get rid of the heat, but accuracy is going to be out the window no matter which hand guard you have.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoboy View Post
Thank you cyphertext for responding to me.

I am concerned the front sights will interfere with scope shooting.

What do you mean 'less than 3 - 4 x magnification"?

I do plan to add a scope on the AR for hog hunting (maybe deer as well). I am not sure what scope I need to get, I haven't read this far into it.

Thanks,
If you have a scope that is 3 power, you typically will not see the front sight in the scope. Guaranteed not to see it at 4 power and higher. This is because the focal point of the scope is further out than the front sight is. There is a drawback though... even though you can't see the front sight in the scope, it does block light.

What will be the primary use of the rifle? If it is hunting and using a magnified optic, you may want to consider either the optics ready version, or a rifle with a free float hand guard that covers the gas block and has flip up sights. If you opt for the optic ready version, you can add flip up sights to it, just the front sight should be a metal sight, not the lower cost Magpul polymer type. But if you never plan to shoot the rifle using iron sights, they aren't required.

My setup for hogs is a Sport I. Fixed front sight, flip up rear and I use a Millet red dot sight. No magnification, but I am typically no more than 70 yards away from the hogs.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoboy View Post
Thank you cyphertext for responding to me.

I am concerned the front sights will interfere with scope shooting.

What do you mean 'less than 3 - 4 x magnification"?

I do plan to add a scope on the AR for hog hunting (maybe deer as well). I am not sure what scope I need to get, I haven't read this far into it.

Thanks,

He means that scopes with more than 3X magnification will make the front sight "disappear" because the front sight is so close to the optics it can't come into focus. So don't worry about the front sight if you are going to use a scope.

In fact, don't worry about the front sight at all. If you go with a red-dot or electronic sight (which usually have little or no magnification), get one that is mounted so it will "co witness" with your iron sights, that way you can use either the irons or the optics as you choose without changing anything.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:07 AM
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Right or wrong, I refused to learn all this stuff.
I just went out and bought a Bushmaster, took it home, and started shooting.

A couple thousand rounds later, I know everything I need to know.

Oh, my plan was to sell the first rifle, and buy what I needed after the Bushmaster "taught" me what I needed to know.

I still shoot the Bushmaster, but, I did buy a second "cheapo" recently at a gunshow. $300.
It is a beater, but, I have had that one apart and back together dozens of times.
The beater shoots great,, looks terrible.
The beater came with a bunch of "extras, even a 22LR adapter.
I was amazed when the beater cycled with bulk 22LR ammo.

So, what I am saying is,, start enjoying, rather than studying,,
you will learn what you need to know along the way!!
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:38 AM
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I am concerned the front sights will interfere with scope shooting.
The front sight mounted on this rifle is out a couple inches further than a standard carbine length so it's a tad bit clearer at 1x, but this will give you an idea of what to expect.

1x.......



4x........


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Old 09-06-2017, 07:00 AM
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I am assuming for the M&P®15 SPORT™ II (M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson) once I remove both sights, then it will be same as optics ready?
No. The A2 front sight on the Sport also serves as the gas block and secures the handguard. You would have to replace it with a gas block similar to what's on the Optics Ready or replace the handguard with a freefloat and low profile gas block.

If your overriding concern is the A2 front sight I would suggest looking at rifles with free float handguard and also longer in length to better accommodate the light you want to mount and anything else.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:03 AM
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OP, first, welcome to the forum. I hope you'll find the information and opinions here useful.

A few years ago I bought a Sport I as I had never had or shot an AR. My prior 30 years experience with rifles was all with bolt actions and 22LR autoloaders. The Sport is a well built and reliable rifle. It's not just a good "starter" AR, it's a good AR at a very competitive price. Buying a Sport as your first AR allows you to see how the rifle is designed and engineered and which parts and their fit are critical to a functioning and reliable rifle.

While ARs are very customizable, I echo the suggestions from the members here to clean your new rifle and then shoot it a lot for several sessions before you start changing parts around.

If you are fairly new to rifle shooting I'd suggest getting some instruction on the the basics such as breath control, sight picture, trigger control, and holds. Learning those human mechanics will help you determine whether your rifle is accurate or not. Simply changing out parts does nothing for accuracy if you don't know the basics of rifle shooting. There are some good USMC videos on line to get you started.
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:58 AM
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Since the rest of your questions were pretty much answered, I'll just add ammo info. So if you are going to shoot a lot to get used to the rifle (which you should absolutely do) then get some good cheap plinking ammo like Wolf Gold or some Federal M193 or equivalent. That stuff is not match grade accurate, but for what you are going to be using it for, it's perfect. Many of us here shoot the same stuff at the range.

Good luck, enjoy the journey and listen to the others, do not go buying stuff for the rifle until you fully understand how it works and what parts will fit/work on it. We've seen a lot of newer AR shooters buy stuff that won't even work with their rifle then they have to return it. Learn first, buy later.
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:07 PM
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When I bought ARs for both my sons, I ended up deciding that the Sport II was (pardon the pun) the best bang for the buck.

They were correct right out of the box, solid, accurate and are backed by a company with first-class customer service.
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
The most common thing I see new Sport buyers change is the carbine length handguard to a longer freefloat handguard.
My suggestion is to understand handguard options before pressing the buy button on any AR. It will also lead to understanding about iron sight options.

Happy AR hunting.
Thanks ChattanoogaPhil,

If I want owner has a MP-22 II with front sights, and later decides to get longer freefloat handguard, will the iron sights and gas block have to be modified so the longer handguard wil fit?

Thanks
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hugger-4641 View Post
I have to agree with CJ's last paragraph since I have some recent first hand experience with this. I did build another AR with a free floated hand guard because I am using it at 300yrds+. However, my Sport II is stock, and IMHO, unless you are shooting past 300yrds, you will not notice much benefit in accuracy from a free floated hand guard until the barrel gets heated up. It will take several rounds for the barrel to heat up enough to make a difference. Of course, the type of ammo and how fast you fire those rounds will make a difference, but for the average shooter, I'd say you would need to fire at least 20rds in quick succession before the barrel would be hot enough to notice any difference in accuracy at less than 300yrds. If you are the typical target shooter who will shoot a group or two and then let the rifle cool while you check results or make adjustments, then you are never going to notice any difference.
If you are the type who is going to empty 30rd mags as quick as you can just for the sake of doing so, then you will want a heat shield and/or a free floated guard to help get rid of the heat, but accuracy is going to be out the window no matter which hand guard you have.
Thank you hugger for the good response.

A few questions please:

1. How far can a AR MP Sport II shoot?

2. Can the standard AR MP Sport with no free floated hand guard shoot 300 yards?

3. How does a free floated hand guard protect the barrel from getting hot? I ask because I do plan to take the family and friends out shooting when the come over at times. I want to show my entire family that owning an AR is a right and can be fun as well. My family is not into guns. So I don't want the rifle to get to hot too quickly after shooting 1 magazine of 30.

4. What do you mean by "but accuracy is going to be out the window no matter which hand guard you have."?

5. Don't laugh. What you mean by "empty 30rd mags " ? Does this means 30 bullets?

Thank you

Last edited by goodoboy; 09-06-2017 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:05 PM
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Thanks ChattanoogaPhil,

If I want owner has a MP-22 II with front sights, and later decides to get longer freefloat handguard, will the iron sights and gas block have to be modified so the longer handguard wil fit?

Thanks
If you mean the M&P 15-22 (.22LR), no. The 15-22 handguard is not compatible with an AR platform. And, there is no gas block on a 15-22. The front sight on a 15-22 simply mounts to the handguard, or it could mount to the railed gas block of the Optics Ready you mentioned earlier.

Suggest going to a gun store and looking at different AR configurations. You'll see free float handguards with low profile gas block underneath and sights that attach to the handguard versus an A2 style like the Sport. It's really simple stuff with the gun in hand... but can be a bit much to absorb with just words.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:26 PM
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Goodoboy,
I guess you can see that you have to get the nomenclature correct, or you will confuse everyone...

Which rifle are you talking about now?

1. M&P 15 Sport II - This is the 5.56mm rifle with the fixed front sight and the flip rear sight.

2. M&P 15 Sport II ORC - 5.56mm Optics Ready Carbine... no sights included

3. M&P 15-22 Sport - This is an AR style rifle that is chambered in .22lr and includes a MLOK handguard with flip up sights.

4. M&P 22 - This is a .22lr pistol

I'm going to assume that we are still talking about either option 1 or 2. Yes, with 5.56mm, you can shoot out to 300 yards. With either of the 5.56mm rifles, if you decide that you want the long, free float hand guard, then yes, you will more than likely have to remove the front sight / gas block... I say more than likely because there are a few "drop in" solutions that have a cut out for the front sight, but most opt to get rid of it.

Is this your first rifle? What is your level of experience. I'm not trying to make you feel stupid... It will help us help you if we know exactly what your experience is. If you are fairly new to shooting, I would say not to worry about 300 yards, free float hand guards, etc...
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Old 09-06-2017, 08:49 PM
hugger-4641 hugger-4641 is offline
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Thank you hugger for the good response.

A few questions please:

1. How far can a AR MP Sport II shoot?

2. Can the standard AR MP Sport with no free floated hand guard shoot 300 yards?

3. How does a free floated hand guard protect the barrel from getting hot? I ask because I do plan to take the family and friends out shooting when the come over at times. I want to show my entire family that owning an AR is a right and can be fun as well. My family is not into guns. So I don't want the rifle to get to hot too quickly after shooting 1 magazine of 30.

4. What do you mean by "but accuracy is going to be out the window no matter which hand guard you have."?

5. Don't laugh. What you mean by "empty 30rd mags " ? Does this means 30 bullets?

Thank you
No laughing here, we were all new to this at some point!

To answer your questions :

The Sport II is capable of shooting further than your or my skill will probably make use of. I do not consider myself an expert, but I am probably on the upper side of "average" shooters. I can reliably hit a man sized target at 300yrds with my stock Sport II, shooting offhand, with any amo. If I put a 6x scope on it, I can reliably hit a five gallon bucket at 300yds. If I shoot from a bench, I can put ALL rounds in a dinner plate at 300yds.

A free floated hand guard does not really prevent a barrel from getting hot, but it allows more air flow around the barrel to help dissipate the heat quicker. I can shoot 30rds as fast as I can pull the trigger and still comfortably hold my stock Sport II. If I slap in a second mag and keep shooting, by the end of the second mag the handguard is getting too hot to hold.
This is what I meant by "emptying mags". 30rd mags are the most common unless you live where they are outlawed like CA, NY, MA, etc.

If I just start pulling the trigger as fast as I can, I can empty a mag in a few seconds. However, very, very few people who do this can actually hit ANYTHING at 100yds. IF I want to shoot 30rds and actually hit a target every time at 100yds, it takes me close to a minute to empty a mag. At this rate of fire I can shoot several mags before I worry about letting the barrel cool.
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Old 09-06-2017, 11:24 PM
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If you have a scope that is 3 power, you typically will not see the front sight in the scope. Guaranteed not to see it at 4 power and higher. This is because the focal point of the scope is further out than the front sight is. There is a drawback though... even though you can't see the front sight in the scope, it does block light.

What will be the primary use of the rifle? If it is hunting and using a magnified optic, you may want to consider either the optics ready version, or a rifle with a free float hand guard that covers the gas block and has flip up sights. If you opt for the optic ready version, you can add flip up sights to it, just the front sight should be a metal sight, not the lower cost Magpul polymer type. But if you never plan to shoot the rifle using iron sights, they aren't required.

My setup for hogs is a Sport I. Fixed front sight, flip up rear and I use a Millet red dot sight. No magnification, but I am typically no more than 70 yards away from the hogs.
Thank you cyphertext for the response.

The rifle will be used for hog and deer hunting, so a scope is needed. It will also be used for target practice and just general shooting in the outdoor range. Of course for home protection as needed. As time goes on, I will invest in another rifle strictly for home protection, as needed.

I will eventually put a scope on the AR, so buying the optic ready is a good option. Unless I put a riser on the back rail and put the scope on there.
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Old 09-06-2017, 11:28 PM
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Goodoboy,
I guess you can see that you have to get the nomenclature correct, or you will confuse everyone...

Which rifle are you talking about now?

1. M&P 15 Sport II - This is the 5.56mm rifle with the fixed front sight and the flip rear sight.

2. M&P 15 Sport II ORC - 5.56mm Optics Ready Carbine... no sights included

3. M&P 15-22 Sport - This is an AR style rifle that is chambered in .22lr and includes a MLOK handguard with flip up sights.

4. M&P 22 - This is a .22lr pistol

I'm going to assume that we are still talking about either option 1 or 2. Yes, with 5.56mm, you can shoot out to 300 yards. With either of the 5.56mm rifles, if you decide that you want the long, free float hand guard, then yes, you will more than likely have to remove the front sight / gas block... I say more than likely because there are a few "drop in" solutions that have a cut out for the front sight, but most opt to get rid of it.

Is this your first rifle? What is your level of experience. I'm not trying to make you feel stupid... It will help us help you if we know exactly what your experience is. If you are fairly new to shooting, I would say not to worry about 300 yards, free float hand guards, etc...
Thanks cyphertext. I appreciate the help. Yes, this all fairly new to me. No worries, i appreciate the help.

I have 0 experience with rifle ownership. I only been to the range with a friend to shoot his AR.

I am referring to option 1 and 2 for the decision making. And yes, I am very new to shooting.

Thanks,
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:03 AM
Ricrock Ricrock is offline
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I'm not sure the 223 is capable of deer hunting. Probably hogs, but deer??
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:21 AM
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Yes, .223 is legal for deer in many states, including TN. Wouldn't be my first choice of weapons for deer. Ammo choice and shot placement are more critical compared to other more common deer rifles like .308 for instance, but .223 will take down a deer.
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Old 09-07-2017, 03:43 AM
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I'm not sure the 223 is capable of deer hunting. Probably hogs, but deer??
I would say hogs are harder to kill than deer... hide is thicker, and the vitals are lower and more compact than vitals on a deer.

With the ammunition available today, the .223 is quite capable of taking deer and hogs. Use a premium round made for hunting, keep within 150 yards, and be a little more selective on your shots.
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Old 09-07-2017, 04:34 AM
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Thank you cyphertext for the response.

The rifle will be used for hog and deer hunting, so a scope is needed. It will also be used for target practice and just general shooting in the outdoor range. Of course for home protection as needed. As time goes on, I will invest in another rifle strictly for home protection, as needed.

I will eventually put a scope on the AR, so buying the optic ready is a good option. Unless I put a riser on the back rail and put the scope on there.
Ok, so I see a couple of issues... You say that the rifle will be used for hunting, so you want a scope. It will also be used for shooting at the range, so far so good... but then you add home protection. A rifle set up for hunting is typically not going to work well for home protection.

Also, you say you will "eventually" add a scope. If you are not going to put an optic on it day one, then I would not get the optic ready rifle. It doesn't have any sights at all on it. If the optic is a purchase for later on down the road, get the Sport II with sights. Otherwise you will have to purchase a set of sights for the optic ready, and that is going to increase your price by at least $100 for a decent set.

Personally, I would go for the Sport II with sights. It is cheap enough that you can get it, shoot it for a while, and then either put a scope on it, free float it and put an optic on it, or buy a whole different upper to set up for hunting. Add a red dot and a light to the Sport upper and you have a decent set up for home defense.
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:56 AM
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Buy the gun and a few Magpul PMags. The only mod you need is a sling. Attend an Appleseed to learn to shoot the gun with iron sights.

Add optics later after you know what you are doing.
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:58 AM
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A Burris MTAC 1-4x is a good scope that you can use for hunting, defense, and action gun games.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:51 AM
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Some have mentioned accuracy to 300 yds . My son , a former Marine always had to qualify to 500 yds , open iron sights . He became a 6th level expert shot . That means he qualified 6 times expert in a row .
A few yrs earlier he was representing his company at the battalion shooting matches in Okinawa . A " Gunny " from the Marine Corps shooting team took him aside , told he that he shot well , but he was going to teach him to shoot his weapon better . That bit of training that day made the difference for him .
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:44 PM
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If hog hunting is a big part of why you want your rifle I'd suggest using a red dot instead of a scope. Scopes are great for hitting a target at longer distances but picking up a second target after you have shot once (like another hog or several in a pack) is going to be slow with a scope. Chances are other targets will be gone before you can pick them up using a scope unless you are using a very low power scope. A red dot would be better for hunting hogs IMO because you can quickly pick up second and third targets with practice.

And speaking of practice, that is something you are going to want to do a lot if you want to hit what you're shooting at. Shooting is really a simple thing but it takes practice to get it right anyway. If you can't afford to shoot 5.56 rounds a lot you may want to consider getting a .22 to learn shooting. They are by far the cheapest gun to shoot. And what you learn shooting a .22 can be applied to shooting almost any rifle except maybe the true high power stuff (the 5.56 is not a high power rifle despite what they say on tv).
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
The front sight mounted on this rifle is out a couple inches further than a standard carbine length so it's a tad bit clearer at 1x, but this will give you an idea of what to expect.

1x.......



4x........

Thank you so much, This explains alot.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
Ok, so I see a couple of issues... You say that the rifle will be used for hunting, so you want a scope. It will also be used for shooting at the range, so far so good... but then you add home protection. A rifle set up for hunting is typically not going to work well for home protection.

Also, you say you will "eventually" add a scope. If you are not going to put an optic on it day one, then I would not get the optic ready rifle. It doesn't have any sights at all on it. If the optic is a purchase for later on down the road, get the Sport II with sights. Otherwise you will have to purchase a set of sights for the optic ready, and that is going to increase your price by at least $100 for a decent set.

Personally, I would go for the Sport II with sights. It is cheap enough that you can get it, shoot it for a while, and then either put a scope on it, free float it and put an optic on it, or buy a whole different upper to set up for hunting. Add a red dot and a light to the Sport upper and you have a decent set up for home defense.
Thank you very much cyphertext for the response.

Thanks to all the others comments as well.

You are correct, I want be added scope or red dots til later on.

I will proceed with buying the Sport II with sights, read the manual, follow the cleaning steps, and check if rifle for correct parts and setup.

I will worry about modifications (red dot, scope, extra stuff later on) after some general shooting. One step at a time.

Thanks,
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
Buy the gun and a few Magpul PMags. The only mod you need is a sling. Attend an Appleseed to learn to shoot the gun with iron sights.

Add optics later after you know what you are doing.
Thanks tomrkba, that makes sense to me.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:17 PM
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A Burris MTAC 1-4x is a good scope that you can use for hunting, defense, and action gun games.
Is this scope good for hunting? With the small objective lens, I think you would be giving up too much light gathering abilities for dusk and dawn... an additional 5 minutes of hunting on either end can be the difference between success and a day sitting in the field.

I forget what scope we had mounted on my son's .243, but the difference between it and my Nikon Monarch was night and day. We were in our stand early morning, sun just barely breaking the darkness and we heard the hogs come in to our feeder and eating the corn. Could barely see them with the naked eye. Could not see them through my son's scope, just too dark. Could see them through mine though! I didn't take a shot because I wanted my son to get his first hog. By the time there was enough daylight for him to see the reticle, the hogs were gone.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:54 PM
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Ah, this user name is coming out of being done WRONG, to suggest that you buy a Sport I. If you can, make sure it has the 5R 1:8 barrel. The 1:9 barrel ________ (insert your favorite word).
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
If you can, make sure it has the 5R 1:8 barrel. The 1:9 barrel ________ (insert your favorite word).
I have two AR's - one is 1:9 and one is 1:8. I've been shooting over 50 years. I can't tell any difference between the two. The one I have noticed is the 1:9 is more accurate but I'd bet a dollar that isn't affected by the spin rate. There certainly is a difference in the way barrels are treated but the spin rate is a bit overblown IMO. I haven't shot hundreds of each or anything. I have shot more than a few.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:48 AM
Ricrock Ricrock is offline
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Ah, this user name is coming out of being done WRONG, to suggest that you buy a Sport I. If you can, make sure it has the 5R 1:8 barrel. The 1:9 barrel ________ (insert your favorite word).
Hey Disabled, What happened to sour you on your Sport II?
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  #48  
Old 09-14-2017, 08:37 AM
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Hey Disabled, What happened to sour you on your Sport II?
He doesn't have a Sport II... has Sport I and Ruger AR-556.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:50 PM
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I really like my sport2, it's my first one also. It shoot well (after cleaning and oiling it).....But if i were to do it over again, i would pickup a AR pistol chamber in .300 BO w/ 8.5" barrel.

Later on if you want to put in back in "rifle", just change out the stock and 16" upper. But if you buy a "rifle" then you can't convert it to AR pistol.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:55 PM
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I really like my sport2, it's my first one also. It shoot well (after cleaning and oiling it).....But if i were to do it over again, i would pickup a AR pistol chamber in .300 BO w/ 8.5" barrel.

Later on if you want to put in back in "rifle", just change out the stock and 16" upper. But if you buy a "rifle" then you can't convert it to AR pistol.
Or you could file the appropriate paperwork with the NFA and register it as a SBR, then just slap a stock on the 8-1/2" barrel and go down the road.
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another newbie derbiv New Members Introduction 9 05-01-2012 07:55 PM
Newbie here and a newbie to handguns, sort of. roadhog96 New Members Introduction 10 01-10-2012 09:13 PM

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