Another noobie question.I have seen two different ways to zero.First take your first shot aiming at the center of the target then move reticule to that shot,second take a shot with the center at the target then move the reticule to the center of the target,thanks for the help

The first is fine, but it’s harder than it sounds because the gun can’t be moved while you’re dialing in.

So,you can do it either way?

You can use either method but using the center of the target is easier for me. Start out up close at 25 yards or so and bore sight the scope to the barrel before you start shooting for easier zeroing

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Strange,looking at you tube,where I got these two examples,the guy that said adjust reticule to shot said if you did it the other way you were doing it wrong,said that was the biggest mistake people make when zeroing

If you've got the rifle in a secure device that will not move while adjusting the scope, yes. You can simply fire a shot and adjust the reticle with the windage and elevation adjustments to where the bullet strikes the target.

Most guys don't have such contraptions. So... they aim at a specific point (bullseye) and fire. The distance from point of aim (bullseye) to where the bullet strikes is then adjusted on the scope with the elevation and windage adjustments.

The elevation and windage adjustments on the Spitfire are shown to be .5moa. That means for every click at 100yds the scope will adjust point of aim .5 inches. At 50 yards the adjustment would be .25 inch. At 25 yards .125 inch. If it was at 200 yards it would be 1 inch. Simple math.

Zeroing a scope is easy. Toss the gun atop a range bag or whatever ya got to hold relatively steady. Keep your target close for the first shot (10yds) so you're assured a strike. Adjust windage accordingly. Leave the elevation about 2 inches low at this short distance. You can then move the target further out and be assured a strike. Fine tune your zero at 50yds or 100yds or whatever you like to accommodate the distances you'll be shooting most often.

He's right. If you can clamp the rifle, you can adjust the scope to your tiny 3-shot group you shot using the target center as the aiming point for the shots and the starting point when clamping the rifle before moving the sights.


The more common way uses a little math and does not involve clamping the rifle. At 25yd (so you are sure to be on paper) shoot a tiny 3-shot group. If you can't shoot a group, get someone else to zero it for you.
Now measure the distance you want to move the impact on the target. If you are 3" right of POA and 2" low, you want to go 3" LEFT and 2" UP. If your scope is one click for 1" at 100yd, for this 25yd distance, multiply by 4, which gives you 12 clicks LEFT and 8 clicks UP.
Reshoot to check.
Now move to your desired long range and check zero.
Use a trajectory calculator to pick an intelligent zero for your purpose.
Handloads.Com Ballistic Calculator

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Science plus Art

I am leery of anyone that says "do it this way, any other way is wrong". Rarely is there only one way to do something.
As said above, if you don't have the equipment/ability to hold the rifle completely in place with the first shot, you won't be able to do it the first way. I don't have the equipment for that, so I use the other suggestions.

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Fight socialism. Never stop.

Well... If using a mechanical device to hold the rifle when shooting that takes shooter error out the equation. And if a mechanical device is used to hold the rifle when adjusting the scope that takes guesswork out of the equation for a lot of guys who don't comprehend or haven't taken the time to learn how their scope works and simple math. So for some guys they may see it as the only way to go.

I've seen guys just crank on adjustment turrets to see which direction it would go and how much. Up/Down Left/Right? MOA? Huh? Just spin the turret and see what happens. This usually results in a lot of aggravation and ammo sent down range for nothing.

At first it may seem complicated, but just a few minutes with your optic understanding how it works along with some tips here will go a long way to a quick and easy zero of your new optic.

We had a very simple way to zero in the Corps. Firing from the ultra stable prone position we aimed at the center of the target. Fired one shot which was marked so we could see where it hit. Adjusted elevation ans shot again. Based upon the marker made nothe adjustment for elevation. Then did the same routine for windage. Once each was fine tuned over two to four shots for each setting we shot a series of rounds to determine effectiveness, and made adjustments if necessary, which was rare except on a sporadic windy day. Generally took six to ten shots to be zeroed in.

Every year around hunting season my friends and neighbors used to come over to my range to sight in their rifles. I had a 100 yard target 36"X36". Lined in inch squares. I had a red dot in the center. I would remove the bolt give it a look see down the barrel to see if the bore and the scope were close. I would take a shot after any initial adjustment. Than walk out and measure the elevation and windage. I then adjusted the sights as per the scope click value. Usually only took 3 shots to sight in. I hated the 338 win mags, 300 win mags and the 7mm mags, they rattled my teeth.

My $.02:

First, you want to adjust the optic based on where you KNOW the gun is shooting. If you have a physical support that will hold the gun then 1 shot should give you a pretty confident feel about where the gun is shooting. But if you're shooting it yourself off a bag or something, one shot is not a reliable enough determiner of where the gun is shooting. Three shots minimum, IMHO, and 5 is preferable. The center of that group (ignoring any obvious flyer/mistake shots) is where I consider the gun to be shooting. If you adjust your optic based on one shot shooting off a bag, I've found, it becomes a long and frustrating day. You're sort of chasing each shot around the target. One data point does not make a pattern, as they say.

I then adjust the optic thinking in terms of moving the group. As a previous poster said - if you need to move the group x" UP/DOWN, and/or y" LEFT/RIGHT, the scopes I've used are marked precisely for that. Where I aim is always constant - at the bullseye. I adjust the optic to have the group be where I want it to be.

Another responder went through the math of how much to move it based on how far away the target is. Moving the group n" at close distance will take more clicks than moving it n" at a longer distance. Most scopes I've seen have one click to move point of impact 1/4" at 100 yds.

OR

Boy,you guys have a lot of good advice,gonna take my Sport out next week will let y'all know what happens,thanks

Geezer,
I've been unhooked from the forum for a couple weeks, did you settle on an optic?

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America First

Ryan Cleckner has some excellent videos on Youtube, do a search using his name. The first two I'd recommend are "Understanding Minute of Angle" and "Rifle Sight-in Process"

Rather then buying targets for sighting in, I find that these free download ones work great.

ARMA DYNAMICS - Red Dot Zero Targets

ARMA DYNAMICS - Scoped Rifle Targets

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Peace was my Profession

If you can shoot well in the prone position, this is a good way to zero. I zero 2" high at 100 yards using a benchrest, which puts bullet impact right on at 200 yards. I use mostly 65-69 grain bullets. Lighter or heavier bullets may have different points of impact.

However, if I shoot offhand after zeroing, bullet impact is usually about 2" low at 100 yards and 4" low at 200. Best to zero for the position you will use most. May make little difference for some people and a significant difference for others. Shoot enough groups to verify.

A few thoughts:

1) The "move the reticle to the bullet hole" method works fine as long as you have a front rest or a bipod, and a rear bag. After the rifles recoils, you still have your original point of aim, so just realign the rifle so that it sits unassisted with the reticle resting on the point of aim again, then carefully make the reticle adjustments without disturbing the rifle.

I did this for an Asian gentleman at the range a few weeks ago who was really struggling to get the rifle zeroed. Turns out he had a lot of experience shooting in South Vietnam, but never with a scope. After 40 plus years he wanted to get back into shooting again.

2) Some folks get really confused about which way to adjust the windage and elevation on a scope and they end up having to look at the little arrow on the turret. There's no need for that. Instead just use the "right hand rule". Extend your thumb on your right hand and curl your fingers. Point our thumb in the direction you want the point of impact to move (up or down, or left or right) and then turn the turret the same way your fingers are curled.

The exception is if you have a scope made in the former Soviet Block - the adjustments work in the other direction on those so, you'll need to use the "left hand rule". That's really handy if you don't know the Cyrillic letters on the turrets.

The same left hand rule also works for metallic aperture sights.

3) What distance to zero a rifle at depends on a few things.

a) If you are using a BDC reticle, or have MOA or MIL dot target or tactical turrets and plan on making adjustments in the field, then you want a 100 yard zero. You'll then adjust up from that 100 yard basic zero.

b) For most hunting purposes, with high velocity rifle cartridges, it makes sense to zero for what ever range give you your maximum point blank range. For medium sized game that is normally defined as the range where the bullet does not rise or fall more than 5" above or below the line of sight. For varmint or small game hunting, it's reduced to +/- 3".

For a 55 gr FMJ with a 2.9" high mounted scope on a 20" AR with an MV or around 3240 fps, the 5" PBR zero range is 318 yards, and will leave you 5" high at 200 yards and 5" low at 367 yards. If you don't have access to a 300+ yard range, you can zero it 3.1" high at 100 yards.

The 3" PBR for the same load is 270 yards, or 2" high at 100 yards. That zero will leave you 3" high at 170 yards and 3" low at 310 yards.

For a .308 with a 165 gr Game King at 2700 fps and a more normal bolt action scoped rifle sight height of 2", the 5" PBR zero range is 280 yds, leaving you 4.1" high at 100 yards, 5" high at 160 yards and 5" low at 325 yards. With a 150 gr bullet at 2800 fps, the PBR zero is 285 yards - 3.9" high at 100, 5" high at 160, and 5" low at 335 yards.

c) Many hunters zero so that they are 4" high at 100 yards. Obviously that works for the .308 with both 150 and 165 gr bullets, and in fact it actually works pretty well for a number of non-magnum high velocity rifle loads (.270, .280, .30-06, etc), so if you're in doubt about the ballistics, just sight in 4" high at 100 yards and limit the range to around 325 yards.

If you're shooting a iron sighted 30-30, sight in 5" high at 100 yards and limit your range to 250 yards.

The 8" bull on the standard 100 yard small bore rifle target is ideal for the 4" high at 100 yards method as you can hold on the bottom of the bull and zero so you are hitting in the X ring.

It also works well with an iron sighted 30-30 as well, you just shoot with the front blade at the 6 o'clock position on the bull, and put the center of the group about 1" above the X on the target.

4) Assuming you will not be adjusting the elevation on the scope, and you will be shooting beyond the point blank range of the rifle, generally speaking you'll want to zero at about 85% of the maximum range you plan to shoot. That's an artifact of how the trajectory works, with the bullet dropping very quickly once you've passed your zero range.

For example if I am shooting a .308 168 gr SMK at 2700 fps, and I want to shoot out to around 500 yards, I'm going to want to zero at around 425 yards. This will leave me 5" low at about 450 yards and a still manageable 14" low at 500 yards, and about 27" low at 550 yards (call it a foot low and two feet low respectively on a deer or antelope sized critter and you're good to go).

The mid range trajectory is also about 14" high at 225 yards, and that's a reasonable amount of hold under for closer shots that might pop up. In fact I can hold a foot low anywhere from 150 yards to 350 yards and get a solid hit in the vitals with that 425 yard zero.

5) You can also establish a basic zero based on the minimum distance you plan to shoot. Again way back in the day when the .308 was used for sniping out to 800 yards, the minimum range was considered to be about 500 yards. Shorter ranges increased the chances of being detected, without significantly increasing the probability of a first round hit, for a well trained sniper. So the basic zero was 500 yards and the sniper adjusted the hold up from there.

6) It's common to zero at 25 or 50 yards, particularly if all you have are indoor ranges with those maximum distances. If you have a ballistics program and you properly enter sight height, muzzle velocity and BC, you can get fairly good data. But...the problem is that a small error at 25 yards/meters becomes a very large error at 300-400 yards/meters - by a factor of 8.

Thus if you establish a "zero" at 25 yards or 50 yards, you need to verify that zero at 100 yards or more before you actually take your rifle in the field. You'll almost always find you make an adjustment to correct it. You'll also find differences due to change in temperature and elevation, and if you flew, you'll discover the airline often isn't kind to your rifle and scope and the reticle can be jarred off target.

7) As noted in the post directly above, positon can and often does make a difference in zero. Ideally, in the field most people shoot prone, or even better off a bipod, and zeroing prone or prone using a bipod is thus the preferred method to zero. A shooter's eye is farther back from the scope when shooting from a bench compared to prone, and if the scope isn't mounted so your eye is centered on the optical axis, and you are shooting well away from the 150 yard parallax ranges most scopes intended for high power rifles are set at, you'll get parallax error.

The rifle also recoils differently in different positions, which affects the angle of departure, and thus the point of impact. When I shot service rifle with M14s and M1As, I had separate sight settings for prone, sitting, and offhand positions and had the change from the basic (prone) zero, written on the sling for the other two positions. I do the same thing now shooting 3 position small bore.

Never attempt to zero a firearm with just one shot.

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Freedom isn't free.

I'm one that believes in shooting at the center of the target and then adjusting the reticle until the POI coincide with POA. Most of us don't get anywhere as much trigger time as we want, so any excuse to send more lead downrange without just making noise is acceptable.

One shot and then adjusting the reticle to the bullet hole; what fun is that? Besides, unless you shoot a minimum of three shots the point of impact is in question due to statistical variation.

You may be missing the point, and may not understand how it works in practice.

For getting an initial round on the paper, with the target 10-25 yards downrange, you're looking for a point of impact that is between 1.5" (10 yards) and 1" (25 yards below the point of impact for most center fire rifle rounds, and a scope height (distance between center of bore and center of scope) in the 2" ball park.

At those ranges, group size should be too small to worry about, unless you are an awful shot, and in that case finding the mid point of the "group" can be flawed if one of the three shots was actually well executed. At those ranges, you should be talking 1 hole groups.

Take one shot, then adjust to the appropriate spot below the point of aim. Then take another shot and see if the point of impact is indeed where it is supposed to be. If not, make the necessary adjustment - which should be pretty small, and fire a third shot to confirm.

Even if the scope adjustments are perfect, if the cold bore or a clean bore shot goes some where other than the rest, it'll be a 3 shot process rather than a 2 shot process.

Then take your target to the 100 yards line and shoot a 3 shot group. Adjust that group as needed to get the point of impact you need for your preferred zero and shoot another 3 shot group to confirm it.

In short, you're looking at between 8 and 9 rounds total to got from initial bore sighting to confirming your zero.

Then if you have a suitably long range you can place a target at your actual long range zero (if it is not 100 yards), or if you are using a 100 yard basic zero and are using a BDC reticle or scope adjustments for longer ranges, you can fire a group at that longer range to confirm you're actually getting the results you expect.

Now we're at 12 rounds minimum, and 15 if you've made an adjustment - and each round in meaningful practice, in stead of just guessing your way to an initial bore sight and zero.

I think so.

After initial zeroing, it's likely that the shooter will still end up further fine tuning zero based on general patterns being revealed that weren't apparent during the zero process.

I think the most important thing is familiarity with how the scope adjustments work, direction and amount of movement, and initial target being close. The idea here is to avoid unneeded frustration and enjoy the process, not dread it.

Nearly every scope manufacturer has directions on how to do exactly this. It works perfectly. The also will let you download small targets with squares that will tell you exactly how to at what yardage and what a "click" means to get your crosshairs on target.
Here is a good example.
How to Zero Your Aimpoint Sight

You may well be the one missing the point, The way the OP phrased his question it could be assumed that he was talking about final zero. Even if he wasn't I firmly believe that a rifle should be zero'd at a usable range for the rifle/scope/cartridge combination. The 25 or 50 yards zero commonly mentioned is a battlefield zero good for combat but is of limited usefulness for hunting or targets.

It works well to first shoot at 25 yards to find out where impact is or else you may well miss the target completely at longer ranges. More than once I've had to move in to twelve yards to get holes on target because of poor alignment of the scope and barrel. Iron sights on an AR are most commonly 2.6 inches high for removable sights on a carbine and 2.8" high on a fixed carry handle type sight. Most scope mounts on an AR are at a height that mimics the distance above the bore with irons.

Low mount scopes on bolt guns are usually 1.5" above the bore, but as mentioned, may be as high as 2" on higher mount scopes. All of this must be taken into consideration. An inch low at 25 yards may work well with a low mounted scope but will throw bullets high at 100 if you are sighting in an AR.

The OP is obviously a new shooter or one new to AR's. I have seen more than one once a year deer hunter unable to put three shots in a two inch group at 25 yards. The question then becomes exactly where is the actual POI. Everything needs to be verified.

^^^ This.

For my AR rifles I have a pattern down on zeroing. I redneck bore sight the upper and optic at home down my long hallway (take out bolt, look down barrel and focus on a small object while upper is set on a fixed surface, adjust optic to the same small object seen down barrel). I then go directly to the 100 yard range and hang up a 3' x 2' white paper piece with my bullseye target in the middle. With the the redneck zero, I can get on the white paper at 100 yards almost always. One shot at at time to start. At my range I can't walk downrange and measure so I eyeball how far my shot is off. I adjust and then shoot again noting my POI movement. Repeat until you are around the bull. This really only usually takes me 5 shots or so. Once I'm sniffing the bull I then go to my 3 shot pattern to fine tune it.

The hardest part can be just getting on paper as @MichiganScott said, once that's done the rest is easy.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

Yeah, I guess I'm not getting the point. I mean, sure we all love to shoot, but why waste time and ammo chasing zero?

If you bore-sight the gun properly, there's no need to waste time shooting at 25 or 12 yards. I've shot with plenty of optics, both cheap and really good ones. I've never had any trouble hitting an 8.5"x11" piece of paper with the first three shots. I've zeroed at 50 and 100 yards this way many times.

Ok, one time I did have trouble, but it turns out the barrel needed to be replaced on that gun.

Do we need to go into how to bore sight the gun?

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Freedom isn't free.

Interesting posts on how various people zero. Having been trained first by the Boy Scouts (WW II vets) and then by the Army I think 25 yard shooting is very important to a shooter developing proper technique. If you can't shoot small groups at 25 yards to get your zero it won't be worth anything at longer distances. Competitive shooters go through huge amounts of ammo perfecting technique and learning what works for them. Practice makes perfect and live fire is the best practice.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

This old Tennessee boy takes aim at a piece of debris, rock or weed on a dirt bank at 50yds. Click. See dirt splat and adjust accordingly. Next shot on paper. Costs about 30 cents and takes no time. For me, I consider bore sighting (looking through the bore, lasers or those bore sight scope thingies) an unnecessary step, waste of time/money. For others, it may be a very useful, efficient and cost effective step in zeroing their rifle.

This goes full circle to the OP's original question of only one correct way to do something.

This gets a double "Like".

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990