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Old 10-21-2017, 07:38 PM
Flyingfool Flyingfool is offline
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Default Can’t get my mp15 to Pivot/hinge

I recently got my sport 2.

When i got it home the first night I had one hell of a time getting it to hinge. The rear pin was all the way out. I could not get my front pin to move at all with my finger.

Eventually I was able to get it to hinge after much manipulation. Weird thing is once it did hinge that first time. There was ZERO problem to get it to hinge normally each and every time I tried it.

Today I finally had time to field strip and clean it all up. I had to pound on the front pin with a wood dowel to get it to budge. I figured the brand new gun was just dry and once I oiled it up good all would be fine.

Not so. The front pin is still extremely hard to get out of the initial detent. I still cannot simply pish it with my finger to pull it.

I finally got the gun back together. And I went to hinge it by pishimg the rear pin. And I have the same “locked up” gun like I had the first night. The rear pin is absolutely fully out. And the upper barely starts to himg and then gets locked up. It will not break open! The pin will not go back in until I really tightly push the upper down, and the rear pin pushes in easily.

What the heck am I doing wrong,? I have not even shot the gun yet!

Should I rerurn this back to S&W under warranty?

Tbis really pisses me off. These things are shpposed to be able to field stripped and reassembled in minutes. I can’t even get mine to break open and to take the upper off without need a small hammer. This seems like total BS!

Maybe I should have bought the Ruger instead!
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Old 10-21-2017, 07:44 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Maybe you should calm down and go shoot it... they loosen up. If it flopped open, you would be on here complaining about how loose it is!
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Old 10-21-2017, 07:49 PM
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Just a hint. Having a cocked hammer and safety on always makes the rear end pivot right up easily.
Second, My Sport is 6 years old. The front pin is still tight and requires more effort to punch out. As time goes on, I find that I rarely feel the need to pop out the front pin. I have a way to clean the chamber well enough in the pivot position.
Lastly, dont get PO`d. Take your time and figure it out.
Hope this helps.
Jim
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:01 PM
Flyingfool Flyingfool is offline
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I figured it out! Stupid me had the bolt locked back! Dah!

Figures I have to post a rant and then 5 minutes later figure out my own stupidity!

This is my first AR so it will take some getting used to the battery of arms I guess. These AR’s sure are not at all smooth and slick like my pre 64 model 70 bolt action. That baby is smooooth!

I do have to say the owners manual is almost 100% completely worthless! I believe I got the bolt assembly back together correctly. As the manual didn't show what position to put the ejector. So I guess it is correct, or It is upside down. But it looks correct to me. And it dry fires fine.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:35 PM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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You pulled the ejector as part of the initial field strip and lube? I've got AR's with several thousand rounds downrange that have never had the ejector pulled.

What is it about some gun guys that makes them want to fix something that isn't broke until it is?
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingfool View Post
I figured it out! Stupid me had the bolt locked back! Dah!

Figures I have to post a rant and then 5 minutes later figure out my own stupidity!

This is my first AR so it will take some getting used to the battery of arms I guess. These AR’s sure are not at all smooth and slick like my pre 64 model 70 bolt action. That baby is smooooth!

I do have to say the owners manual is almost 100% completely worthless! I believe I got the bolt assembly back together correctly. As the manual didn't show what position to put the ejector. So I guess it is correct, or It is upside down. But it looks correct to me. And it dry fires fine.
If you got it back together you got it right. They are designed to only go together one way so you can't install something backwards.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:09 AM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Takedown pins are typically machined by drilling the Detent hole without any de-burring of the sharp edges produced by that drilling operation. As an Engineer I have taken the "AR as Tinker Toy" approach with all my AR's and have built every single one from basic parts. Part of that process is using a 2mm ball shaped diamond burr in a Dremel to make sure that the takedown pins come free with just the right amount of resistance by chamfering the sharp edges of that drilled hole. So, no break-in required.

However as part of the process of building my own AR's I have had to do some test fitting and know from real world experience that the Front Takedown pin can be removed with clever use of a good Dental Pick to depress the Detent Plunger and rotating the takedown pin 90 degrees so it will slide out free. BTW, you will need to "capture" that plunger before removing the takedown pin so I use a dowel pin of the same diameter to push out the takedown pin. Note, failing to do that will/may require the removal of the barrel and ejection port cover to get that plunger back in place. Removing the rear pin is much easier, all you have to do is remove the buffer tube and slide out the plunger spring and plunger.

Point is that these are issues that can be solved with a bit of experience and effort. I will also say that building an AR from a bag of parts is both rather enjoyable and not too difficult. However most will find it very difficult to match the selling price of the Sport II with a home built AR. Truth is there is such a large selection of parts available that it's nearly impossible to not do some "upgrades" when building an AR. For example a Timney Trigger will set you back a bit more than 200 bucks unles you find one on sale.
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:32 AM
Flyingfool Flyingfool is offline
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To be clear, I never took apart the ejector.

I was only trying to figure out what clock position (the clock position of the ejector) the bolt had to be when inserting it into the carrier.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:26 AM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingfool View Post
To be clear, I never took apart the ejector.

I was only trying to figure out what clock position (the clock position of the ejector) the bolt had to be when inserting it into the carrier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stwings View Post
If you got it back together you got it right. They are designed to only go together one way so you can't install something backwards.
^^^^^^^^^
What he says.

I use grease on the take down pins of my AR's in an attempt to reduce wear on the holes in the receiver and try to keep that nice tight feel. I've had to use a polymer punch on my wife's AR ever since she bought it new in 2007 so maybe it helps.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingfool View Post
I figured it out! Stupid me had the bolt locked back! Dah!

Figures I have to post a rant and then 5 minutes later figure out my own stupidity!

This is my first AR so it will take some getting used to the battery of arms I guess. These AR’s sure are not at all smooth and slick like my pre 64 model 70 bolt action. That baby is smooooth!

I do have to say the owners manual is almost 100% completely worthless! I believe I got the bolt assembly back together correctly. As the manual didn't show what position to put the ejector. So I guess it is correct, or It is upside down. But it looks correct to me. And it dry fires fine.
I feel your pain, just laid down hard earned cash and the cotton picking thing doesn't work like you thought it should. I'm fairly new to ARs myself, they do take some getting used to.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
Takedown pins are typically machined by drilling the Detent hole without any de-burring of the sharp edges produced by that drilling operation. As an Engineer I have taken the "AR as Tinker Toy" approach with all my AR's and have built every single one from basic parts. Part of that process is using a 2mm ball shaped diamond burr in a Dremel to make sure that the takedown pins come free with just the right amount of resistance by chamfering the sharp edges of that drilled hole. So, no break-in required.

However as part of the process of building my own AR's I have had to do some test fitting and know from real world experience that the Front Takedown pin can be removed with clever use of a good Dental Pick to depress the Detent Plunger and rotating the takedown pin 90 degrees so it will slide out free. BTW, you will need to "capture" that plunger before removing the takedown pin so I use a dowel pin of the same diameter to push out the takedown pin. Note, failing to do that will/may require the removal of the barrel and ejection port cover to get that plunger back in place. Removing the rear pin is much easier, all you have to do is remove the buffer tube and slide out the plunger spring and plunger.

Point is that these are issues that can be solved with a bit of experience and effort. I will also say that building an AR from a bag of parts is both rather enjoyable and not too difficult. However most will find it very difficult to match the selling price of the Sport II with a home built AR. Truth is there is such a large selection of parts available that it's nearly impossible to not do some "upgrades" when building an AR. For example a Timney Trigger will set you back a bit more than 200 bucks unles you find one on sale.
I built mine trying to keep it as cheap as possible and came out a penny or 2 cheaper. So you are correct any upgrade will push the price over the top. I'd gladly pay a little more just for the experience.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingfool View Post
To be clear, I never took apart the ejector.

I was only trying to figure out what clock position (the clock position of the ejector) the bolt had to be when inserting it into the carrier.
Your referring to having the the extractor on the bolt orientated the correct direction when in the bolt carrier. If you pull the bolt back out and take your bolt cam pin and try to put it in the bolt on both side's you'll see it only fits in one side. So like the other's have said you can only put it back together the correct way.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:13 AM
ditto1958 ditto1958 is offline
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With all due respect, this sure seems like a lot of crying over not much of anything. As others have noted, it generally is a good thing for an AR to have tight pins when new. They loosen up with use; if they’re too loose to begin with, they can walk out while you’re shooting. That’s not good.

Shoot the doggone thing- a lot. And enjoy it.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:21 AM
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I love my pre 64 Model 70, but it is a very different animal than my ARs or AK. An apples to oranges comparison will prevent you from appreciating your AR for what it is. Good luck. I hope you come to like your new rifle.
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:50 AM
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Read your owner's manual.

The issue you encountered is described on pages 21 and 22.
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
scooter123 wrote:
As an Engineer...
What form of Engineer? Mechanical? Chemical? Civil?
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stwings View Post
If you got it back together you got it right. They are designed to only go together one way so you can't install something backwards.
You can install the bolt backwards.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:30 AM
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You can install the bolt backwards.
Do mean the BCG? It's impossible to put the bolt in backwards since it won't fit into the carrier.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:08 PM
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OK, maybe backwards isn't the right word. It can be installed rotated 180 degrees out of correct, with the extractor and ejector on the wrong side.
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Old 10-24-2017, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
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OK, maybe backwards isn't the right word. It can be installed rotated 180 degrees out of correct, with the extractor and ejector on the wrong side.
How about calling it upside down?
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
OK, maybe backwards isn't the right word. It can be installed rotated 180 degrees out of correct, with the extractor and ejector on the wrong side.
You can physically put it in rotated the wrong way, but the cam pin won’t fit in. You can’t fully reassemble the rifle to function with the bolt oriented the wrong way.....which is good.
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Last edited by Kadonny; 10-24-2017 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
OK, maybe backwards isn't the right word. It can be installed rotated 180 degrees out of correct, with the extractor and ejector on the wrong side.
No, the cam pin will only fit one side of the bolt. The hole on the other side is smaller.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:39 PM
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Lubricate both front and rear pins.
My front pin sometimes needs to be pried up a bit with a flat screwdriver blade to get it started, especially if it is dry.
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