I am considering the advantages and disadvantages of a flash suppressor vs a muzzle brake on my M&P Sport II, for 2 gun shoots and wonder if a muzzle brake really makes a noticeable difference in recoil, on a 223/556. The downside to muzzle brakes, is they are much louder and other shooters, alongside you, bear the brunt of it.
To those of you who have experience with both, what are your opinions? Also, I've been reading reviews and watching videos, comparing various brands and would appreciate your input. Expensive doesn't always mean the best.

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NRA R.S.O. & Life Member

For multi gun types of competition, a brake/comp will be of benefit. Not so much in the recoil you feel, though it will be reduced somewhat. The benefit of a brake/comp comes from the reduced muzzle flip. Since part of the scoring is time based, reducing splits between shots will add up over the course of fire.

To comply with new state law, I replaced my flash hider with a comp. Didn't really notice a change in recoil, but did see less muzzle flip. Been to the range multiple times since the comp was installed, and haven't had anyone complain about noise. Nor have there been complaints about muzzle blast. Would I go back to a flash hider if I could-probably not. Like the faster recovery.

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Peace was my Profession

OK, so far as advantages for competition, for the vast majority of competitors, the money spent on widgets would be much better spent on practice ammo. Possibly also on lessons from guys who are top notch competitors.

Flash and blast kind of depends upon individual brake design. The last few years I shot 3 gun (TPC), brakes and other non-duty type equipment was banned. One guy did get permission to shoot his braked AR and we were all astounded by the increase in both flash and noise in a covered shooting position.

If you're experienced and consistently running in the top ten or so, a brake might help. Other than that, it's generally the nut behind the trigger that causes your ;less than stellar performance.

I use a Lantac brake. Significantly reduces muzzle rise and recoil. Really, quite a noticeable difference. There's a bit more muzzle flash in low light conditions over an A2 but it's limited. There is no discernible difference in noise for the shooter. It is louder for those directly to the side but it's not so bad. Once you get used to shooting with a brake you won't want to go back to a flash hider.



I put a Epsilon VG6 on the wife's light weight build but she preferred the Lantac so I ended installing a Lantac on her rifle too.



There's a ton of brake tests and comparisons on the Net. Performance is all over the map. Like most things gun related... it's a compromise. For brakes it's noise and flash vs recoil and muzzle rise performance. One of the best measured performing brakes is the M4-72. No surprise... it's also supposed to be among the loudest.

Happy brake hunting.. there's a zillion to choose from.

My progression with shorter than 16" barrels has been A2 flash hider--> Battlecomp--> A2 flashider--> suppressor

As far as flash suppressors go, the Noveske Flaming Pig does the job especially on short barrels.

Yup, and it really helps with the short barrel concussion too.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

Op, you pretty much got the gist on the muzzle brake vs flash suppressor.

The others have pretty much covered the subject pretty well also.

Personal opinion, with a 5.56/.223 rifle, I would stick with the flash suppressor or go with a very mild brake that biases toward muzzle rise control. These rifles don’t really need a brake like some more powerful rifles do.

In the end, it’s your money and preference and the above is just my personal opinion.


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After you select a brake... consider the below. I too had an annoying slight push right. I think it had more to do with being right-handed but nevertheless this cured it with a brake.

"...... taking it a step further, the holes must favor one side or the other to counteract the effect of rifling spin direction on muzzle jump. Believe it or not, rifling direction does have a rather significant effect on directional recoil.

Using a crescent wrench, you can tune your brake’s effectiveness by turning it a bit at a time until you find that sweet spot. Generally, most modern barrels use a right-hand rifling twist, so the top gas ports should be slightly to the right of perfect top center."




Guns & Ammo 400 Bad Request

I take it the top gas ports to the right, is from the shooters perspective, not from the muzzle end, correct?

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NRA R.S.O. & Life Member

Correct...

A flash suppressor just minimizes the amount of flash from the burning powder as the bullet leaves the muzzle. It's principal purpose is to reduce how visible you are when you fire the rifle in low light conditions.

A muzzle brake reduces recoil by redirecting some of the propellant gasses backwards. One down-side to an effective muzzle brake is that the more gas it directs backwards the dirtier you are going to get so factor in how much gas you want pointed back into your face.

Personally, I don't find the recoil of a 223/5.56 AR to be robust enough to cause me to want to part with the money for a really good, highly effective muzzle brake (and in my opinion, the ones that aren't very effective are just cool looking flash suppressors).

I want to make sure I get the right size muzzle brake. The M&P Sport 2 that I have I presume takes a 5/8" size, but what is the thread pitch?

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NRA R.S.O. & Life Member

Thread pattern for AR15 is 1/2 - 28. AR10 is 5/8-24


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When I started this thread, I was unsure of what to get for my Sport 2. I don't want the blast to upset the people that shoot along side of me, at the bench, but want some decrease in muzzle rise/recoil. I decided to try the Wilson Combat MUZZLE BRAKE Q-COMP, I ordered from Brownell's. It's a hybrid design, flash suppressor/muzzle brake. All the videos I watched said it works great at both, but I don't hold out much hope of that. The worst that can happen is I waste $53. Well see......

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-C...OMP-1%5C2X28/#

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NRA R.S.O. & Life Member

My experiences tell me that most brakes, suppresors and AR gizmos are bought for their aesthetic value rather than their function. 98% of AR owners are tacticool paper punchers or milk jug commandos, 1.9% are competitors, and the other .01% are actual operators. For the 98%, which now includes me, could do just as well with no muzzle device afixed to our barrels. I will admit that my ARs are adorned with some sort of flash hider, mostly because they look cooler than a naked barrel, but they do help when hunting coyotes at night. Don't get me started on the chubby, 5.11 clad, beard wearing, cheato eating armchair killers. Then again it's better than spending money on booze and chicks. Of course, this is Just my opinion.

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I agree with you and I'm part of the 1.9%. I enjoy the two gun shoots and benchresting, but you are right, the cool factor soothes the ego.

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NRA R.S.O. & Life Member

I'm right there with you. But I did buy a Daniel Defense Superior Suppression Device for my Ruger.

It

Did it change anything? Not really. Does it look cooler than the factory bird cage? Definitely. I have yet to shoot in the dark with it...

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Jorge

All for people spending their hard earned money on stuff that makes 'em happy and it's great for the industry, 2A and economy. Just keeping things in proper perspective. .

I'll be at SHOT in a couple weeks. 90% of the show will have to do with tacticool gizmos - same with the annual NRA conference. Funny thing is my personal ARs are laden with much more **** than any of my ARs did while working in LE or in Afghanistan.

To each their own on muzzle devices. To me, a brake isn't needed on an intermediate caliber rifle but I don't compete. I do find a flash suppressor to be useful in low light. Especially with shorter barreled rifles due to the muzzle flash.

My suppressors are AAC so my 5.56 and 7.62 rifles all have the AAC Brakeout 2.0 combo FH/Brake on them. They work well for muzzle rise and tend not to have nearly as much blowback as a straight up MB does and in testing have almost as muted of a flash signature as their Blackout FH. And if you're plinking at a crowded range where you're worried about annoying a neighbor (and don't have a suppressor) you can put on a Blastout muzzle device to send the blast forward.

While felt recoil is a subjective thing, let's put the recoil of the AR15 clone in perspective. Depending upon full size, carbine and/or barrel weight but with no excessories (intentional spelling), the recoil impulse of a typical example runs 2.5-3.5 lbs. Or, about half that of a fairly typical service pistol.

Given that, I'll paraphrase Ken Hackathorn's comment: "If you need to reduce recoil, the best way is your bedroom floor. Lay on it every day and push it away 20 times. Work up from there."

While that's somewhat simplistic, good instruction would probably help more than widgets, but hey, it's your money.

Necessary? No. There isn't a single muzzle device on any shoulder fired gun that's necessary. Helpful? Well, that's the argument isn't it?

On my .308Win bolt gun I find the muzzle brake very helpful. It reduced muzzle rise by at least 80%.

There are many that say they don't see any difference when they put a muzzle brake on their 5.56/.223 rifles. For me, I found a world of difference. I wouldn't have an AR without one. I find that it's much easier to keep the gun flat with the muzzle brake.

Considering the guys around you at the range is a nice gesture, but unnecessary. Most will understand and work with you. To the few it bothers, move down the line further.

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Freedom isn't free.

Dr.Lou's comments put me in mind of an opinion poll, followed by a debate on the IQ of the respondents I heard about one time.

The opinion poll dealt with fishing tackle---(Why is it made?).

It seems the distinct majority of the respondents thought it was made to catch fish.

The few remaining were pretty sure it was made to sell to fishermen.

Without knowin' the first thing about S&W M&P 15 rifles, and supposing they were rompin', stompin' big bores, I took a look at this thread to see what the folks had to say about tamin' rompin', stompin', big bores. After I'd looked for a spell, I decided I better find out for sure just what sort of rompin', stompin', big bore this was---so I did. Near as I can tell, this M&P 15 is sort of like my old Colt Sporter-----one of those .223 "assault rifle" things.

Then I decided I'd best be going back to the folks talkin' about neat, old handguns. I understand those folks.

Ralph Tremaine

Several years back at a TPC (Tactical Police Competition) match, some one mentioned that none of the competitors seemed to be wearing....tactical clothing...... A quick look around confirmed that the only 5.11 stuff seemed to be confined to the manufacturers reps hawking products (Did we mention our Police Discount?). This was despite the presence of real world HSLD folks as competitors/honored guests.

This lead to a spirited discussion that concluded that the prime market for that gear was for folks-let me see if I can put this delicately-who need to reinforce their self image or get a firmer grip on their man card.

Or who need more pockets. I like 5.11 pants. Cheetos.........not so much.

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Freedom isn't free.

I find your stereotype quite offensive. I am neither a tacticool paper puncher nor a milk jug commando. I prefer to be categorized as an Armadillo Assassin. And when I was growing up an operator is who you talked to when you dialed 0. I didn't know they carried AR 15's

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