I don't understand 2 stage triggers. I guess the idea is to help with precision shots when necessary. The first stage is to give you a little prep time and the second stage is to allow easy let off for long/precision shots. When shooting quickly, think controlled pairs, you don't really notice the first stage.

I have always preferred single stage. I like that there is just one "feel" to the trigger. A good trigger, even if it's 5lbs, is still easy to use for precision if your fundamentals are correct.

I do have a 2 stage in my X95. It was the only type available for that gun in an after market trigger. Mine is a Geissele and is very nice. It literally feels like a decent trigger with a lot of creep. I don't really see the advantage.


Which do you like? Why?

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Like anything else, time is money. This is why Mil-Spec triggers are gritty. PROPERLY honing them smooth, not removing more than a tenth of a thousandth or two, takes a little time, but produces a dramatic improvement in smoothness and trigger pull weight. Add a JP reliability spring set and your 6-10 pound trigger is now a very smooth, crisp 4-4.5 pounds. I've done dozens of them and have a lot of happy shooting buddies.

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NRA R.S.O. & Life Member

So....do you like single or 2 stage?

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Freedom isn't free.

A good 2 stage trigger lets you prep the trigger when you need to take a precise longer range or even shorter range shot. You take the first stage out of the trigger say 2.5 lbs and then you can feel the "wall". From that point all you have to do is break the 2lbs remaining which will be about half of a good single stage trigger.

When you are banging away at short range man of minute targets you can simply pull through the wall and you have what is essentially a single stage 4.5lb trigger.

This theoretically allows you a more precise long distance accurate trigger at distance while still having a 4.5lb trigger for up close serious business.

Now take up is a very subjective thing in both rifle and pistol shooting. As is reset. In the end it comes down to preference and training. One is not objectively better than the other. Which ever you choose shoot enough so you can run that trigger effectively.

Some people have trained themselves to prep a trigger and run and gun with a 2 stage. Others have learned to run and gun with a controlled slap. Each technique requires or demands a different trigger style. A good trained shooter can get good results with either style but there will always be a preference. IMHO.

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Use should dictate gear!

I'm an old shooter who learned when 2 stage was the norm, and the final shoot off was sometimes driving roofing nails with the shot.
The 2 stage feels natural to me, and also shooting revolvers, pulling straight through when in a hurry is no challenge.


Depends on what you know and were trained to do.
Learned on a single shot and the 2 stage is my friend.

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Science plus Art

Most military triggers I have experienced over a large number of mil-surplus weapons are 2 stage triggers of a somewhat heavy pull weight and I believe that is to prevent accidental/unwanted discharges by the troops to who they are issued. Once you learn them they are sufficient for combat accuracy but for precision shooting a single stage trigger may contribute to improved accuracy. I advise caution on using very light single stage triggers for anything besides bench type target shooting for safety reasons.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

The double stage trigger does have an application for service use, as Vonn noted above. The first stage allows a user to acquire the trigger under stress, possibly with touch impeded by gloves or cold, without causing an inappropriate loud noise. The rather robust trigger weight also helps.

The first time you stack up for an entry-unless you're tail end Charlie-you gain a whole new appreciation for service weight/2 stage triggers. Also body armor.

I use a single stage, Mil-Specs that I've reworked myself. At 4 pounds, they work great for 2 gun shoots or change to a higher power scope and bench-rest it. I don't think I'd really gain anything with a 2 stage, 2 pound pull trigger. Grip exercisers help, they really do.

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What do you consider very light?

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Use should dictate gear!

Two pounds and less would be light in most situations in my opinion.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

This is why I like the SSA and the MBT-2S, with the heavier spring at 5-5.5lbs, for a duty gun. It lets me prep the trigger when I want to shoot a 2lb trigger but allows me some take up before taking a shot.

Shooting steel or paper targets at speed controlled slapping on a square range is not the same at stacking up. I have never had to do that but I intellectually understand the difference.

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Use should dictate gear!

While I understand the benefits of two stage triggers for precision shooting, I choose single stage drop in triggers and my choice has been Wilson Combat TTU's for my AR's. Love the feel of them, simplicity and that added built in drop safety. Nothing to not like about them in my book except maybe the expense. Looks like I'm not the only one

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Webfarmer

Well, some shooting disciplines like Service Rifle competitions require a minimum 4.5# trigger, so you can do a 2.5# first stage then a 2# second stage for 4.5# total. Once you take up the first stage, the second stage feels like a single stage trigger anyway. For long range shooting, this is way easier to shoot than a single stage 4.5# break.

I had a Black Rain single stage in one AR and bought a Geissele SSA-E 2 stage for my other AR earlier this year. Within 5 mins of installing the Geissele, I had already gone in and ordered another to replace the Black Rain single stage, and it went on Ebay an hour later. Now that was my preference. I felt that 2 stage gave me better control since I could takeup and feel the wall better. Before that, I had no experience with a good 2 stage. All of my shooting is backyard stuff, and generally for somewhat precision. If I were doing 3 gun or any kind of speed shooting, I'd have a single stage most likely.

For offhand shooting there's a practical limit to a lighter weight single stage trigger. Around 4lbs is generally considered the threshold. Much lighter than 4lbs increases the likelihood of the shooter inadvertently firing before ready. A two stage trigger, while sometimes having an overall heavier trigger pull than some single stage triggers, provides a short lighter second stage at the expense of suffering a long first stage to help avoid inadvertently shooting before ready.

I shoot offhand with a 4lb single stage to my satisfaction. So... I don't care for a long first stage to chase after a lighter second stage. Tennessee has a mild climate so I have no need for a heavier single stage or the long pull of a two stage for winter gloved shooting.

Generally speaking, I think if a guy gets ahold of quality aftermarket trigger, single or two stage, he'll likely think it's wonderful in comparison to a typical gritty, stacking, heavy GI trigger. Having the opportunity to try several different aftermarket triggers allowed me to find what type trigger well suited me. My primary AR has a Wilson Combat TTU. I recently purchased a LaRue MBT-(two stage) for the wife to try on her AR. Like I said in another thread... I wouldn't waste ammo with it. But more importantly, it will be what the wife thinks that counts.

Happy wife,happy life! I have spent a buck or two on both types of triggers over the years and can live with either type as long as they have a clean repeatable break. Practice with attention to the basics works for me.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Right. While different designs can be inherently better suited for particular applications, overall operator skills and fitness is key. Long past my prime... this reality grows more annoying every year.

I like both but...

All of my AR's in .556, .223 Wylde, .300 BO, and 9mm do have single stage triggers only and the overwhelming majority have CMC 3.5lb triggers installed.

All my AK-47's have 2 stage triggers. And all the AR47's that I have built have Rock River Arms National Match 2 stage triggers installed (4.5-5lbs). The RRA National Match triggers have excellent hammer velocity and as a result I've never had a single issue with hard primers not firing with this trigger. I have built AR47's in 16, 10.5, and 7.5 inches. The RRA National Match trigger along with the scope I have on the 16 inch version is a very accurate and an excellent hunting set up believe it or not.

To each their own, this is a system I practice and train to and it works for me.

You're right about that, friend.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

I also am using a Wilson 4lb. TTU. I can't add any more than what webfarmer,
Blues 7 and ChattanoogaPhil have already said.
It's a great drop-in unit.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

I prefer single at 3lbs and under with no discernible pre-travel and minimum reset for all applications.

To get a single stage trigger down to that low of a pull, would require a very weak hammer spring and it might not fire hard primers.

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NRA R.S.O. & Life Member

The primary purpose of a two stage AR trigger is to give the shooter a short sear break without compromising safety. The AR trigger has a long pull to ensure there is plenty of sear engagement to prevent sear bounce when the rifle is dropped, bumped or otherwise handled roughly.

The 2 stage G trigger reduces trigger pull, but is designed to increase pull just before the sear releases the hammer.

A crisp 5 lbs trigger with minimal creep and backlash is a joy to shoot.

Bullpup triggers are a completely different breed than AR triggers. Bullpup triggers are often horrible compared to a factory AR trigger.

I like a good trigger, whether it's single stage or two stage. I don't like gritty triggers of any kind. Use the trigger type you like best.

Be wary of single stage triggers with little to no creep. Bump a bolt action rifle with a trigger that has too little sear engagement and it can only fire one shot. Bump a self loading rifle with the same trigger and it's ready to go again and again.

That's one of the reasons I chose a Wilson Combat TTU. Unlike Mistwolf's drop (un)safe description, the TTU prevents the hammer from falling all the way forward unless the trigger is depressed.

Wilson Combat® Exclusive 1911 Style Half-Cock Notch Makes The TTU The Safest AR Trigger on The Market and Allows The TTU to Meet or Exceed Military Specifications For Drop Safety

I had never seen that info on the Wilson trigger,learn something new everyday. Going to check that out more fully.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

If dropped or for whatever reason sear engagement fails, the hammer has a notch that will catch the trigger before the hammer reaches the firing pin as long as the trigger is not depressed. At that point everything stops. The hammer cannot fall further forward and the trigger cannot be pulled.

Notice the angle of the hammer having been caught by the Half-Cock Notch design.

While the half cock is a good safety feature, if the hammer does fall, it will need to be re-cocked to fire the weapon. Chances are that your AR won't see handling rough enough to cause sear bounce, but it is something to keep in mind, especially when the AR is slated for a defensive or duty role.

So, what? If a regular trigger group hammer falls, the gun will fire. I'd rather have to re-cock it than have a negligent discharge.

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Freedom isn't free.

The longer sear engagement of the regular trigger group stops hammer fall to begin with.

The choice is long travel and no hammer fall vs short travel and a half cock in case of hammer fall.

Right.

For the benefit of anyone who might not be familiar... The safety only blocks trigger movement. It does not block the hammer from striking the firing pin.

That's why Mistwolf's earlier comments regarding aftermarket triggers with near zero creep are worthy of consideration. Creep is reduced by reducing the amount of sear/hammer overlap. That overlap is the only thing preventing the hammer from falling forward and striking the firing pin. While loss of sear engagement is uncommon with aftermarket triggers it is worthy of consideration. Warnings you might see about do-it-yourslf trigger jobs honing past the surface hardening is directed at this issue. Loss of surface harding results in greater wear and eventually less sear/hammer overlap.

This is a good video for anyone not familiar with the design.

There is a difference between "honing", which would remove a couple tenths of a thousandth and removing a few thousandths. I have "honed" many trigger hammer to sear contact surfaces (under a lighted magnifier with proper tools) and never remove more than a tenth or two. Surface case hardening penetrates at least .005 or somewhat more, so a tenth or two is negligible.

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A trigger that is built properly will not allow the hammer to fall unless the trigger is pressed. If the safety is set up properly, the trigger cannot move at all. Therefore, even with very little sear engagement, the hammer won't fall as long as the safety is on.

The problem comes when a DIY person doesn't understand the nature of how the safety works with the trigger and sear engagement.

The half cock position on the Wilson trigger will never be used because they know how to properly build a trigger. It's there for piece of mind or some crazy combination of errors (which won't happen unless the user messes with the trigger).

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Freedom isn't free.

Rough handling does not only occur when the safety is engaged.

This isn't to say that a trigger like the TTU must be avoided at all costs. It's just to say, be aware of the facts when choosing a trigger.

True, but it should be. There is no reason to take the safety off until ready to fire. You're only ready to fire when sighted in on the target.

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Freedom isn't free.

You cannot account for all possibilities. On a square range, chances of rough handling are all but eliminated with just a little care. But what about on a mountainside? Can you be 100% certain you won't lose your footing just as you are preparing for a shot? Can you be absolutely certain something won't go wrong between the time you disengage the safety and get ready to fire when in a fight?

No. If a soldiers could control all the variables, they would put all the bad luck on their foes and stay home. If it was just a simple matter of trigger discipline, Wilson wouldn't have bothered with a half-cock position on their TTU.

Truer words have never been spoken. Mr. Murphy is alive and well and wandering the world.

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Freedom isn't free.