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Old 01-11-2018, 10:09 PM
Kilminator Kilminator is offline
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I purchased a brand new M&P15 yesterday. Was in the process of zeroing this evening. I had fired 15 rounds over about 15 minutes. When I squeezed the trigger next, the gun blew up, knocking my glasses and earmuffs off, and burning my right forearm. As near as I can figure, the round didnít fully seat and allow the chamber to close BUT the gun fired anyway. Much of the gas blew out through the magazine exploding it into pieces and sending unfired rounds everywhere. It scared the **** out of me. I am an army vet and have never seen anything like this. Iím taking it back to dealer tomorrow and expect he will be helpful, but ***....I don't feel comfortable with another S&W. Will probably just get my money back. Is this a problem with this model or did I just get the one in a million?
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:15 PM
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Based on what I've seen. Your experience is very much far from the norm. I don't remember anyone else experiencing the same on this forum or any of the other firearms based forums I belong to.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:19 PM
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Wink WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER.

Look on the bright side. You're 15 shots ahead of the guy whose gun blew up on #31.
AND on the first post too. Fancy that.

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Old 01-11-2018, 10:21 PM
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Welcome...quite the introduction and glad you are OK. I would document everything to the extent possible (photos, parts), save the ammunition and contact factory customer service tomorrow. If you were using factory ammunition, chances are good they will replace it under warranty.

I am not super familiar with the workings of the AR, but I don't think the trigger will drop the hammer unless the gun is fully in battery, so I suspect an overpressure load. Others here may have equally possible theories.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:23 PM
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Glad it wasn't worse, amazing how hot and powerful that gas is...is the rifle a .223 or 5.56?
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:24 PM
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Can't tell you what went wrong but I think you may have won

"most exciting first post"
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:25 PM
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I would not take the gun back to the dealer as they are not responsible. You deserve an answer and restitution from the horses mouth. If the dealer refunds and sends the gun back to SW that is the end of the story. But what about he next guy whose rifle blows up. SW needs to know about it, investigate it, and fix the problem.

If the rebound was not in proper register, then the gun ought not have fired. It did, and that is bad dangerous.

I hold SW in high regard, and they need to know about what happened to diagnose the problem. On top of that they need to at least compensate for a worthless gun.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:28 PM
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An AR-15 will fire out of battery if the bolt is close to closing but not fully locked .

Not gonna venture to guess what went wrong but as long as your OK and the gun is warrantied consider yourself lucky.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:30 PM
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It seems sort of anticlimactic to say "Welcome to the forum" after reading your first post.

I'm sure all of us are glad you were not seriously injured.

However you decide to pursue this, please keep us posted on how it plays out.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:05 AM
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Likely a squib. I'd have the remaining ammunition checked / contact manufacturer. Yet another example why (not the op) grasping the magazine is not a wise thing to do.

Next to impossible for an AR to fire oob unless it has a serious mechanical problem.

Don't let this incident stop you from enjoying another S&W. Even it was a mechanical fault, it's about as rare as getting hit by lightning.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:24 AM
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I don't know how I ended up liking your post. That had to be horrible. I've had a .22 fire OOB once and that was plenty bad enough. I got a piece of brass that smacked my face but luckily did no damage. Burned my arm a little.

I would definitely take my complaint to S&W. They should know about it big time. I've never seen another story like yours so likely you did get that one in a million bad example. Manufacturing is not a perfect thing. Most people are very happy with their rifles. Mine has had no such problem but maybe I'll be a bit more watchful for problems now.

Thanks for posting. It's good for all of us to hear these things to remember to be a safe as possible and watch for problems. And that's what shooting glasses are for. Not saying you should have caught that problem BTW. I doubt I would have or most of us would have.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:46 AM
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What, no pictures.....
You'd think someone who just blew up his brand new gun them immediately joined the forum to tell us about it would at least have pictures.

Jim
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:59 AM
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Factory ammo or handloads? If factory, S&W will want to know and have a sample of it. Handloads, you probably had a cartridge too long. Case shoulder-to-base length is critical in semiauto rifles firing shouldered ammo. With a bolt rifle, not quite so much, because you'll likely feel it if the case too long. OTOH, if too short, the brass may stretch on firing and thin the case wall to the point it blows out. For shouldered brass handloads, a case gage is your friend and an absolute necessity for me.

Being S&W, not some fly-by-night AR builder, the headspace should have been in limits and the gun test-fired at the factory for your gun.
Nonetheless, I'm paranoid about just what happened to you, and I submitted each of my AR's, including an M&P-15, to a gunsmith for headspace checking before I fired them. One of them (not the S&W) was too short, which could have led to a slamfire like yours.
I'm relieved you survived that without any permanent injury, and I sure hope Smith can get to the bottom of the problem and make you whole again.

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Old 01-12-2018, 01:01 AM
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Default If the dealer.....

If the dealer doesn't satisfy you, call S&W. If you were using factory ammo I know they will want to see what's going on as well as brass and unfired rounds. If it has live ammo I'm sure it must be shipped ground, but S&W will know all of that.

Did you check to see if the barrel was blocked. If there was a squib in that batch of ammo and the case ejected or was ejected, it's highly likely the backup of gas would back up and come out the mag well.

If the gun is at fault, S&W owes you something. If the ammo is at fault, that ammo manufacturer owes you something. Good luck and I hope you pursue it and hopefully get some sort of compensation. I don't care if it's a Maytag or a Whirlpool, it shouldn't blow up first time out.

Honestly I would suspect the ammo first. Not that something couldn't be wrong with an S&W gun, there certainly could, but what malfunction would cause the gun to explode? It just sounds more like an Ammo problem.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:52 AM
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get a pistol caliber carbine or an AK-47.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:28 AM
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Default "Liking" is fluid here.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by C J View Post
I don't know how I ended up liking your post. That had to be horrible. I've had a .22 fire OOB once and that was plenty bad enough. I got a piece of brass that smacked my face but luckily did no damage. Burned my arm a little....

For newbies "Liking" something is fluid here. it can mean:

"I appreciate what you were saying"
"I'm glad it turned out ok for you"
"Thanks for telling us about this"
"We're glad you are getting it checked out"

And several other meanings...

It doesn't mean:

"I'm glad your pet died."
or any similar negative.

The moderators in their wisdom seem to not want 'dislike' or 'I'm sorry' buttons.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:59 AM
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A Google search turns up all kinds of incidences of the M&P AR 15 and the AR 15-22, firing out of battery. I have an M&P AR 15 and have never experienced this problem.
Wolf ammo even sent out a notice about it.

Wolf Gold not recommended for S&W M&P15? - AR15.COM
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith
For newbies "Liking" something is fluid here. it can mean:
Well I'm not quite a newbie with over 700 posts but I can and do make mistakes. I just don't remember clicking the like button. But I sometimes click the mouse just by accident and probably clicked right on the button that time. For whatever reason I didn't mean to imply I liked what happened. I just wanted to be clear about that since the poster was new. I know there are reasons to like such posts and in truth I'm glad that he posted the info. It's good to keep us all on our toes if nothing else and to watch for more issues like that too. But I didn't want to appear crass to someone who is new here and maybe doesn't understand the things you stated so well. I made a mistake and I wanted to clear it up. Simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agksimon
Wolf ammo even sent out a notice about it.
I saw other threads about that warning. It seems that only Wolf Gold ammo was involved. And it had no problems with any other rifle while the Smith's had no trouble with any other ammo. I thought there would be scads of reports about an issue this major if there was a lot to it but that's speculation. I haven't seen too many instances of this problem reported in the 5.56 version of the M&P 15 but I saw a bunch of reports about the M&P 15-22 firing out of battery when I did a Google search for "S&W m&p 15 out of battery". Turns out they were banned at Appleseed events because of an ongoing problem. Makes me wonder if it the 15-22 that was having the issues and Wolf reported on that. Their warning really wasn't very clear. I did see a poster claim that it was based on 7 out of battery occurrences with their .223 ammo which is more than their normal 2 reports per year for any particular rifle. It wasn't Wolf that said that. Could it be that the high volume of M&P 15's being sold especially to newer shooters may have contributed to this? I don't know. It just seems strange that only one brand of rifle was mentioned and there are actually more than one rifle bearing that name. And the 15-22 did have a bunch of reports of firing out of battery. Anyone with any insight would be appreciated by me at least.

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Old 01-12-2018, 07:00 AM
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Wow! I'd be pretty disgusted myself. I did learn something though. I "had" a habit of resting my palm on the bottom of the magazine and bracing my elbow against my side. Glad you are OK and welcome.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:42 AM
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I will attach a couple pictures. They arenít very good. The carrier is stuck in place I assume with the expended round in chamber. The bulk of the energy blew out the magazine well. Thanks for the well wishes....I am very thankful!! Iíve grown up around firearms and spent 6 years in the army. Ive literally seen hundreds of thousands of rounds go down range, never seen anything like this. It could have been a lot worse.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:09 AM
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I hope you will keep us posted on how this turns out for you. Had a friend who blew a Berretta 9mm apart from a bad shell case on a reload . He was ok and after putting the grips back on the gun with a new mag it was ok. Hope the experience doesn’t cause you to give up shooting.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:32 AM
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Ive heard this happened here in ga to a guy right before I arrived at the range, don’t know if it was a S&W but I know it was an ar15
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:45 AM
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I "liked "your post because you were not seriously injured .Bu I agree you need to send the rifle and ammunition to S&W ASAP so they can get to the bottom of the problem. Please do keep us posted as we are generaly fans of S&W firearms or at least owners and shareing information is what's its all about . Good luck .
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:10 AM
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In the first photo, the bolt doesn't appear to be fully forward - how it got that way (meaning if there was a bore obstruction or a mechanical/structural flaw, or if this was the cause or the end result of the 16th round) is the question. Please let us know what happens with contacting the factory.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:46 AM
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Glad you are OK ! Please keep us posted what you find out.

I've never seen or had a firearm kaboom. But, I know a few that have,, shotgun, handgun , & rifles.
Sometime they figure out what went wrong, sometime not.

Kind of scary when you think about setting off 10,000 to 50,000 psi of pressure off right under your nose.

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Old 01-12-2018, 09:57 AM
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Thank you for sharing this. Please let us know
how is goes.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:50 PM
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While it is remotely possible, with the perfect set a mechanical break downs, I don't believe you had an OOB discharge. There are several other more common/likely issues that I would check before pointing to an OOB discharge.

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Old 01-12-2018, 01:29 PM
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I don't see any info on the ammo used or photos of fired cases?

Are there 14,15 or 16 holes in the target(s)?
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:22 PM
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What I see in the photos is an action that performed exactly as designed in the case of a cartridge case failure. I would be curious to know the details of the ammo used. Cannot determine if there was an out of battery firing from the photos. Fortunately for the shooter, the rifle DID NOT "blow up in his face".
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:33 PM
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Unhappy MISTAKEN IDENTITY, SORRY.

It appears I wrongly ASSumed you were the same recent poster with a somewhat similar issue. My apology & welcome.
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  #31  
Old 01-12-2018, 02:46 PM
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Glad you're here and apparently still typing with all your fingers. Please keep us up to date on the investigation progress . . .

Oh, and welcome from the bootheel of Missouri, the Show Me State and the heart of flyover country . . .
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilminator View Post
I will attach a couple pictures. They arenít very good.
The photos look fine.

The gun, not so much.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:13 PM
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It's my understanding that the rifle should not have fired OOB no matter what. That at least should indicate a problem with the rifle. The ammo certainly may have contributed but firing out of battery is a pretty serious problem and really shouldn't happen even if there was a squib in the way of loading a round.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Kliminator wrote:
I’m taking it back to dealer tomorrow and expect he will be helpful...
I just saw this and realize I may be a little late, but the problem is between the manufacturer and the shooter and that's where it should be resolved.

Also, the shooter should take several, good, clear pictures of the rifle from many angles, write a detailed account of what happened and then contact S&W.

Do not surrender the rifle, ammunition or debris to either the distributor or S&W until the matter is resolved with finality. If you hand over the evidence of a problem, the distributor may develop "amnesia" regarding your claim. Protect and treat all evidence as if you were preparing for a lawsuit. You don't have to sue, but you do want to protect your own interests until the matter is resolved to your satisfaction.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:11 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
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Quote:
Stakeout wrote:
I don't see any info on the ammo used or photos of fired cases?
No we don't.

Nor did the OP answer the oft-repeated question about the brand of the ammunition and whether or not they were reloaded.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:19 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdwhit View Post
No we don't.

Nor did the OP answer the oft-repeated question about the brand of the ammunition and whether or not they were reloaded.
Yep, I wouldn't be quick to blame the rifle... Need to know more about the ammo before any conclusions can be drawn.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:14 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is online now
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Did the OP fire reloads? Just a quick educated guess by looking at the pics that it looks like a case head separation or the case burst or split open on the side. I bet the remains of the case are still in the chamber
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:45 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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I've seen half a dozen of these involving several brands of rifle. So far as can be determined without extensive/expensive testing, the rifle was either fed an over pressure round, had a blockage in the barrel resulting in over pressure case rupture, or had the rifle fire without the bolt fully locked, leading to a case rupture due to lack of support.

OP, skip the dealer, he didn't warranty the product. Go straight to S&W and follow their instructions. BTW, you did clean the rifle before firing, right?

Beware of cheap ammo and handloads other than your own. Even your own if you're not very careful. I'd tend to think ammo related. Yes, the ruptured case will still be in the chamber and the BCG jammed.

Last edited by WR Moore; 01-12-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
For newbies "Liking" something is fluid here. it can mean:

"I appreciate what you were saying"
"I'm glad it turned out ok for you"
"Thanks for telling us about this"
"We're glad you are getting it checked out"

And several other meanings...

It doesn't mean:

"I'm glad your pet died."
or any similar negative.

The moderators in their wisdom seem to not want 'dislike' or 'I'm sorry' buttons.
...and one more "I agree with what the person said in this post"
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:49 PM
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As mentioned, without pictures and documentation of the AMMO, this is all hearsay and even then SPECULATION!
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  #41  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:55 PM
Dad_Roman Dad_Roman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
As mentioned, without pictures and documentation of the AMMO, this is all hearsay and even then SPECULATION!
Yep, good thread and I hope to see a positive outcome from it.

but...

Im inquisitive about the circumstances like everyone else. Dont doubt anything the OP has stated but also have a ton of additional questions.

The thread is titled "Brand New.....Blew Up In My Face". It insinuates that the gun blew up when it appears to me that its possible that the round blew up (for what ever the reasons) and the magazine took the brunt of it with the gun possibly even SAVING him from harm. Im going to go ahead and insinuate that the gun "saved his life" (yes....Im a bit of a S&W fanboi) and after a long investigation we will find the truth somewhere in the middle

(run my M&P @ full auto rate on wolf with no issues) yet

Last edited by Dad_Roman; 01-12-2018 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:11 PM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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------------------puts me in mind of a visit to my BIG TIME client several years ago.

I was making my way up the back stairs from the shop area to the office. Now the front stairs were built by folks who know how to build stairs---the back stairs were pretty much home brew. The risers were mostly too tall, and pretty much none of them were the same height------------and all of them were filthy dirty!

KAFLAMMATER!!! I trip, fall down---and forward---sprawled full length on the stairs. It was not a pretty sight!

The shop foreman, an east Tennessee "good old country boy" (with accent to match), was at the bottom of the stairs---looked up, and called out------------

"Raelph---you want me to call you a laaaawyer?!!"

Ralph Tremaine

Last edited by rct269; 01-12-2018 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:21 PM
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Very glad you are ok..................
also welcome to the forum.

I am old fashioned and don't do "Black".............
I use the M1 or older.

Stay safe.
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:38 PM
Kilminator Kilminator is offline
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Default Updates and questions answered

The weapon was wiped down, and thoroughly inspected prior to loading. The ammo was new factory loads. I bought several boxes at the same time I bought the gun. It is Federal XM193F M193 ball ammo. 5.56mm which is what my rifle is chambered for. There were 16 rounds fired, there were 16 holes in the target. One of the last group fired hit about 10 inches low at 25 yards. I assume this was the final round that was so low because the detonation occurred without the breach being fully closed. My guess but I'm open to other theories. I took the gun to the dealer today and we called S&W together. I documented everything and left the gun with the dealer. S&W asked a number of preliminary questions and sent us a shipping label to return. The dealer agreed with me that the gun detonated out of battery. I expect S&W to contact me when they receive the weapon and make some determination. Thanks for all the concern.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilminator View Post
The weapon was wiped down, and thoroughly inspected prior to loading. The ammo was new factory loads. I bought several boxes at the same time I bought the gun. It is Federal XM193F M193 ball ammo. 5.56mm which is what my rifle is chambered for. There were 16 rounds fired, there were 16 holes in the target. One of the last group fired hit about 10 inches low at 25 yards. I assume this was the final round that was so low because the detonation occurred without the breach being fully closed. My guess but I'm open to other theories. I took the gun to the dealer today and we called S&W together. I documented everything and left the gun with the dealer. S&W asked a number of preliminary questions and sent us a shipping label to return. The dealer agreed with me that the gun detonated out of battery. I expect S&W to contact me when they receive the weapon and make some determination. Thanks for all the concern.
Please let us know the outcome.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:46 PM
bamashooter bamashooter is offline
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Glad you're none the worse for wear and welcome to the forum.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:49 PM
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Default OOB discharge???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiakco View Post
While it is remotely possible, with the perfect set a mechanical break downs, I don't believe you had an OOB discharge. There are several other more common/likely issues that I would check before pointing to an OOB discharge.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
OH, 'out of battery discharge'. I thought I was reading about a medical condition.
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  #48  
Old 01-13-2018, 12:01 AM
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Default NO BIG DEAL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by C J View Post
Well I'm not quite a newbie with over 700 posts but I can and do make mistakes. I just don't remember clicking the like button. But I sometimes click the mouse just by accident and probably clicked right on the button that time. For whatever reason I didn't mean to imply I liked what happened. I just wanted to be clear about that since the poster was new. I know there are reasons to like such posts and in truth I'm glad that he posted the info. It's good to keep us all on our toes if nothing else and to watch for more issues like that too. But I didn't want to appear crass to someone who is new here and maybe doesn't understand the things you stated so well. I made a mistake and I wanted to clear it up. Simple as that.

Please don't be sore. You aren't a newbie, so that is fine. Zero criticism was meant for any post of any kind on this thread. It's ALL good stuff. Just telling actual newbies that there is no such thing as a negative 'like'.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:11 AM
C J C J is offline
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Quote:
OH, 'out of battery discharge'. I thought I was reading about a medical condition
These days it's more likely to be "get out of that bed, you're discharged" even though they barely read your chart and treated you for something you didn't have and left it at that. Trust me I know. Just happened to me recently. And I have double insurance.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:10 AM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
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Smith & Wesson WILL make it right for you. Ring them in the morn.
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