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Old 06-18-2018, 10:19 PM
goodoboy goodoboy is offline
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Hello,

I currently own the M&Pģ15 SPORTô II (M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson).

I currently own a 9mm SW M&P and use it as home protection. Now I would like to add to my home protection and setup my AR-15 for home protection as well or just going to the range with my family (wife and 18 year old daughter) for target shooting at about 25-100 yards.


This is my first modification and I am just planning all my hardware and cost. I would like to add the following to my AR with a budget less then $200-$300 (please let me know if more money is recommended and I just save up some more)

Vertical Grip
Red Dot Optic
Tactical Flashlight Lemons
Rail to mount accessories

Thank you
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:09 PM
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The handguard on the Sport II is filmsy and has no heat shield, first option would be to replace handguard.

MOE SL(R) Hand Guard, Carbine-Length – AR15/M4

Or

Two Piece Drop-In
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobiless2 View Post
The handguard on the Sport II is filmsy and has no heat shield, first option would be to replace handguard.

MOE SL(R) Hand Guard, Carbine-Length – AR15/M4

Or

Two Piece Drop-In
Thank you mobiless2 for comments. The heat shield is not needed right now , I don't plan on doing a lot of shooting at the range often.

Last edited by goodoboy; 06-19-2018 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 06-19-2018, 03:51 AM
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Heatshield might not be necessary, but using a handguard like the Magpul has definite advantages. First, it simplifies mounting accessories. You'll have one standard mount for everything. Second, you will have multiple options as to where you place everything except for the red dot.
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:52 AM
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I recommend you to get a 2 point sling, to add to your list.

Assuming you have little experience, because you said it's your first AR-15:

Work on learning the sight offset in close distances, such as would occur inside your residence.

Also work on malfunction drills. Although the best option in a gunfight is to let the sling hold the rifle while you unholster a working gun from your body.
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoboy View Post
Thank you mobiless2 for comments. The heat shield is not needed right now , I don't plan on doing a lot of shooting at the range often.
As other's have mentioned, you need something sturdy to attach your vertical grip, light, & red dot.

The S&W OEM handguard has no M-Lok or Keymod attachment points. Once you switch the handguard then it's just a matter of adding your rail attachment, then your accessories.

https://www.magpul.com/firearms-acce...sories/see-all.
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Old 06-19-2018, 03:25 PM
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I settled on the MagPul accessories for my MP Sport II in carbine length. I like the handguard that extends a bit further forward around the front sight fixture very well. They sell a few differently designed sling attachments that fit the slots in the MagPul handguards as well as the pushbutton sling attachments on the frame of the rifle. I settled on the rear sling attachment that fits where the buffer tube attaches to the frame since the ring on that one will move from one side to the other and allow your sling rear attachment to work on either side of the rifle. I do not care for a front hand grip but do like the attachment that fits the handguard well that allows your hand to press forward at one certain location and keep fingers off the hot barrel, etc. I also chose to replace the OEM rear hand grip with one of the MagPuls that is a bit more comfortable and handfilling for my hand. Lastly, I personally like the MagPul magazines, specifically the 20 round ones that hold plenty of ammo without sticking much down below the outline of the rifle and get in the way for any reason. I have the 30 rounder that came with the rifle for backup if needed. I am in full agreement with the two point sling attachment and I use one of the MagPul slings that can easily be attached or removed from the rifle. I had to experiment some with where to attach it to best fit the gun to me for my needs, and I can allow the rifle to hang if necessary while using both hands for other needs. If you intend to use your rifle for home protection, I believe you have all you need with this rifle to do so, once you get it set up for yourself! Good Luck!!
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:37 PM
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I recently bought a M&P-15 Sport 2 OR and it came with the Magpul Mlok fore end. I like it much better than the standard round one. Plus you can add rail sections that mount flat to suit your needs. It feels so good I have no need for a forward grip.
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:58 PM
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The one thing about using either mlok or keymod handguards is that accessories mount directly on the handguard. Rail sections are not needed. Since the military is starting to adopt mlok, and it's basically open source, you'll find more extras that utilize mlok. Your red dot will mount on the rail section on the upper. Vertical grips will mount directly to the handguard using either mlok or keymod. Same thing with a light. Mounts are available that bolt directly to the handguard.
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Last edited by Westie1; 06-19-2018 at 08:02 PM. Reason: added extra
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westie1 View Post
but using a handguard like the Magpul has definite advantages.
Thanks Westie1,

What Magpul handrail do you recommend?

Last edited by goodoboy; 06-19-2018 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:16 PM
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Hello,

Should I get a quad rail like this first to mount additional accessories?

Can i mount 2 rails on the existing handrails? 1 rail for the flashlight and another rail for the vertical grip like this. Access Denied

Screenshot by Lightshot or the individual rails Screenshot by Lightshot to mount on the existing hand rail

Last edited by goodoboy; 06-19-2018 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:17 PM
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This is the one I have on my personal Sport II
MOE SL(R) Hand Guard, Carbine-Length – AR15/M4

With this one, the installed sling mount has to be removed. They do make one that is shorter and allows use of the existing sling mount. There are other brands available, some of which will require modding/removal of the front sight assembly. Just google M Lok hand guard, and you'll see what I mean.

With the M lok system, you don't need the add on rails. This will explain how it works.

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Last edited by Westie1; 06-19-2018 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobiless2 View Post
As other's have mentioned, you need something sturdy to attach your vertical grip, light, & red dot.

The S&W OEM handguard has no M-Lok or Keymod attachment points. Once you switch the handguard then it's just a matter of adding your rail attachment, then your accessories.

Rails and Accessories - See All.
mobiless,

I do not understand what you stating. Can you show an example please of what to do?

Are you saying attach the M-Lok rails to my existing handrails like this?

Screenshot by Lightshot
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westie1 View Post
This is the one I have on my personal Sport II
MOE SL(R) Hand Guard, Carbine-Length – AR15/M4

With this one, the installed sling mount has to be removed. They do make one that is shorter and allows use of the existing sling mount. There are other brands available, some of which will require modding/removal of the front sight assembly. Just google M Lok hand guard, and you'll see what I mean.

With the M lok system, you don't need the add on rails. This will explain how it works.

MagPul M-LOK Accessories Mounting System Demo at SHOT Show 2015 - YouTube
Thanks Westie1,

But I am getting confused. Which rails do you recommend I buy on the link below to install a flash light and Vertical Grip? I will buy a sling from Academy Friday. I just need to know what rails (rails or quad rail) to buy please.

Also, what red dot and flash light do you recommend I buy to aim efficiently and blind an intruder please?

Access Denied

Last edited by goodoboy; 06-19-2018 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:38 AM
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Westie1 is recommending the Magpul MOE I think. It's a quality very inexpensive handguard to swap with the factory Sport II handguard. The Magpul MOE allows you to add the stuff you want to add without buying a quad rail or quad rail sections, that's what the M lok system does. You can buy M lok mounts for both a flashlight and a verticle grip and attach them right to the MOE handguard. Quad rails are out, they are heavier and are very uncomfortable to hold, M lok and Keymod handgaurds are in.

Flashlights are hard to recommend because there are a whole array of them out there and a lot depends on lumens and quality of the light. Find one in your budget and buy it. Streamlights are very popular.

Red dot? Again, what's your budget. Aimpoint or Trijicon are the best IMO but expensive. Primary Arms makes a great budget red dot too so figure out what you want to spend.
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:53 AM
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Since the invention of M-Lok, quad rails are out. Quads are bulky and uncomfortable to handle. Most people end up buying covers to go on most of it to keep from tearing up their hands.
With M-Lok you can choose where and how much rail you need and many accessories can be mounted directly to the handguard without rails.
Check the Magpul web site and see what all is available.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadonny View Post
Westie1 is recommending the Magpul MOE I think. It's a quality very inexpensive handguard to swap with the factory Sport II handguard. The Magpul MOE allows you to add the stuff you want to add without buying a quad rail or quad rail sections, that's what the M lok system does. You can buy M lok mounts for both a flashlight and a verticle grip and attach them right to the MOE handguard. Quad rails are out, they are heavier and are very uncomfortable to hold, M lok and Keymod handgaurds are in.

Flashlights are hard to recommend because there are a whole array of them out there and a lot depends on lumens and quality of the light. Find one in your budget and buy it. Streamlights are very popular.

Red dot? Again, what's your budget. Aimpoint or Trijicon are the best IMO but expensive. Primary Arms makes a great budget red dot too so figure out what you want to spend.

Thank you very much. So the quad rails are heavier then the MOE handrails?
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayfox View Post
Since the invention of M-Lok, quad rails are out. Quads are bulky and uncomfortable to handle. Most people end up buying covers to go on most of it to keep from tearing up their hands.
With M-Lok you can choose where and how much rail you need and many accessories can be mounted directly to the handguard without rails.
Check the Magpul web site and see what all is available.
Thanks,

So if I buy this MOEģ M-LOKģ Hand Guard, Carbine-Length Ė AR15/M4 MAG424$29.95

What rails do I buy and how to install on the handguard?
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:45 PM
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With the M lok system, rails are NOT necessary. If you view the video I posted above, you'll see how the system works.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:46 PM
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Hello all,

After some research I have the following ready to buy.

Handguard MagPul
Access Denied

Grip Magpul
Access Denied


Rail to mount Flashlight
Access Denied

Example of Flashlight Mount
MOE(R) Scout Mount, LEFT or RIGHT
http://prntscr.com/jxfhl3
http://prntscr.com/jxfhrj


Do you have a recommendation on Flashlight (+500 lemons with possible pressure switch mounted to grip) and red dot optic (0-200 yards). My budget on optics is $200?

Thank you. I well come all comments and advice.
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:26 AM
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I have the same Magpul handguard mentioned by others. You may not want to shoot a lot at the range but if you shoot more than just a few rounds you will find the OEM handguard getting very hot. It will become too hot for your hand quickly.

I originally used a rail that attached to the OEM handguard and I mounted a vertical grip to that. That worked fine but it didn't leave me with enough space to mount a flashlight and a red dot. I had the Vortex Strikefire II red dot mounted at the time. I probably would have had room with my current Primary Arms Advanced Microdot (with the knob brightness adjustment) sight to mount a flashlight. That sight has a 5 year battery on it meaning you can leave it on for about 5 years. So chances are it won't be dead if you change the battery once a year or so.

I went with the Magpul to get more space for mounting things and to have a more sturdy setup. Plus the heat shield helped. I still use a vertical grip BTW. I just like them for more accurate shooting.

I also have a flashlight mounted. There are MANY capable flashlights on the market today and you don't have to pay high prices to get a good one. Here's one example.




A CREE XML2 LED and a 18650 battery will provide you with plenty of blinding light. In some cases you might actually blind someone permanently with one of those lights. They come with a warning about shining them into the eyes of a human. They are VERY bright and that includes the ones that just cost $20 or so. I have several of these lights and none of them have ever failed. If I was going into a jungle or a desert to fight a battle I would probably want a better quality light but these are pretty darn good. The batteries are a key. You need one that won't die completely if discharged. Some shut down before they get too discharged. A good charging system is also a must. Again these lights are VERY bright. More expensive models usually have more modes where you can adjust for brightness and go from spotlight to flood light. Those are things you can get by without on a gun designed to pick up a target in the dark quickly and engage that target without great risk to yourself. I wouldn't want a dimmer on a light on a rifle. Most battles will be over very quickly and the batteries last a good while even on the brightest settings.

If I can get to it I'll post a photo of my setup here. I'm very pleased with it. I do have a 2 point sling but I find that I use it much less than I would on a rifle without a vertical grip. It's good to have it wrapped around your hand though just to prevent someone from taking your gun away quickly. A sling almost always means more accuracy if you use it right. They aren't just for carrying a rifle. I never use a wide sling made for comfortable carrying. To me a sling is primarily about accuracy.

I had another AR with quad rails that were long. They were awkward for holding the rifle by the handguard IMO and they were considerably heavier. It was a more sturdy setup but it wasn't worth the problems it created to me.
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:27 AM
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I have the same Magpul handguard mentioned by others. You may not want to shoot a lot at the range but if you shoot more than just a few rounds you will find the OEM handguard getting very hot. It will become too hot for your hand quickly.

I originally used a rail that attached to the OEM handguard and I mounted a vertical grip to that. That worked fine but it didn't leave me with enough space to mount a flashlight and a red dot. I had the Vortex Strikefire II red dot mounted at the time. I probably would have had room with my current Primary Arms Advanced Microdot (with the knob brightness adjustment) sight to mount a flashlight. That sight has a 5 year battery on it meaning you can leave it on for about 5 years. So chances are it won't be dead if you change the battery once a year or so.

I went with the Magpul to get more space for mounting things and to have a more sturdy setup. Plus the heat shield helped. I still use a vertical grip BTW. I just like them for more accurate shooting.

I also have a flashlight mounted. There are MANY capable flashlights on the market today and you don't have to pay high prices to get a good one. Here's one example.




A CREE XML2 LED and a 18650 battery will provide you with plenty of blinding light. In some cases you might actually blind someone permanently with one of those lights. They come with a warning about shining them into the eyes of a human. They are VERY bright and that includes the ones that just cost $20 or so. I have several of these lights and none of them have ever failed. If I was going into a jungle or a desert to fight a battle I would probably want a better quality light but these are pretty darn good. The batteries are a key. You need one that won't die completely if discharged. Some shut down before they get too discharged. A good charging system is also a must. Again these lights are VERY bright. More expensive models usually have more modes where you can adjust for brightness and go from spotlight to flood light. Those are things you can get by without on a gun designed to pick up a target in the dark quickly and engage that target without great risk to yourself. I wouldn't want a dimmer on a light on a rifle. Most battles will be over very quickly and the batteries last a good while even on the brightest settings.

If I can get to it I'll post a photo of my setup here. I'm very pleased with it. I do have a 2 point sling but I find that I use it much less than I would on a rifle without a vertical grip. It's good to have it wrapped around your hand though just to prevent someone from taking your gun away quickly. A sling almost always means more accuracy if you use it right. They aren't just for carrying a rifle. I never use a wide sling made for comfortable carrying. To me a sling is primarily about accuracy.

I had another AR with quad rails that were long. They were awkward for holding the rifle by the handguard IMO and they were considerably heavier. It was a more sturdy setup but it wasn't worth the problems it created to me.
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoboy View Post
Hello all,

After some research I have the following ready to buy.

Handguard MagPul
Access Denied

Grip Magpul
Access Denied


Rail to mount Flashlight
Access Denied

Example of Flashlight Mount
MOE(R) Scout Mount, LEFT or RIGHT
Screenshot by Lightshot
http://prntscr.com/jxfhrj


Do you have a recommendation on Flashlight (+500 lemons with possible pressure switch mounted to grip) and red dot optic (0-200 yards). My budget on optics is $200?

Thank you. I well come all comments and advice.
Ok, with all due respect you are still not getting it. If you buy the Magpul M Lok handguard as you reference above (your link is correct, buy that one), you will not need any picatinny rail sections. None, zip, zilch. The M Lok hand guard has an attachment system that does not use picatinny rails, it uses M Lok accessories. It's called the M lok system. So in your links above you link to a picatinny rail section and a verticle grip that attach to picatinny rail sections. Forget both of those. Your flashlight mount you link above attaches to a standard MOE handguard, which you will not be buying. So forget that one too.

Ok, so here is what you will need. All of these will attach directly to the Magpul M lok handguard you will be buying.

Verticle Grip
https://www.magpul.com/products/m-lok-mvg-vertical-grip

Flashlight Mount (example of one)
https://www.odinworks.com/M_LOK_Flas...acc-flm-ml.htm

That's all you need (along with the M lok handguard). No rail sections, no scout mounts. All you need then is to buy a flashlight that will fit the mount and you'll be good to go. Whatever accessories you buy, just make sure they say "M lok" and they will fit your rail.

Got it now?
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Last edited by Kadonny; 06-21-2018 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:22 AM
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Ok, with all due respect you are still not getting it. If you buy the Magpul M Lok handguard as you reference above (your link is correct, buy that one), you will not need any picatinny rail sections. None, zip, zilch. The M Lok hand guard has an attachment system that does not use picatinny rails, it uses M Lok accessories. It's called the M lok system. So in your links above you link to a picatinny rail section and a verticle grip that attach to picatinny rail sections. Forget both of those. Your flashlight mount you link above attaches to a standard MOE handguard, which you will not be buying. So forget that one too.

Ok, so here is what you will need. All of these will attach directly to the Magpul M lok handguard you will be buying.

Verticle Grip
M-LOK(R) MVG(R) Vertical Grip

Flashlight Mount (example of one)
M-LOK Flashlight Mount

That's all you need (along with the M lok handguard). No rail sections, no scout mounts. All you need then is to buy a flashlight that will fit the mount and you'll be good to go. Whatever accessories you buy, just make sure they say "M lok" and they will fit your rail.

Got it now?
Thank you so much. Makes perfect sense. Thanks
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:40 PM
C J C J is offline
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That's all you need (along with the M lok handguard). No rail sections, no scout mounts. All you need then is to buy a flashlight that will fit the mount and you'll be good to go. Whatever accessories you buy, just make sure they say "M lok" and they will fit your rail.
That is all perfectly true but I found the selection of add on parts to be limited for M LOK mounts. So I added one rail so I could add the vertical grip I wanted. I used the top rail on the Sport to mount my red dot and my flashlight. I attached a rough photo of how it is set up. I didn't show the rail I attached to the handguard so I could use the vertical grip I wanted.
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Old 06-23-2018, 03:08 AM
MistWolf MistWolf is offline
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goodoboy,

Get the MagPul Slimline handguard. It's M-Lock compatible and gives you a little more handguard length than teh MagPul MOE handguard.

As your AR has a front sight base, I would suggest getting a Mossie Tactical Midnight Mount from Arisaka Defense. I've been using one for years and it's great. It mounts to the front of your front sight and places your weapon light at the 12 o'clock position. This puts the light shadow at 6 o'clock. It also places your light in a good place to operate it. Mossie Midnight 1913 FSB Mount – Arisaka

I don't know what your budget is, but I recommend the Surefire X300. They aren't cheap, but they are light, rugged and throw a beam brighter than anything that small has a right to. I've been using mine for years, on ARs, pistols and in my pocket.

For a sling, take a good look at the one made by Blue Force Gear. I've tried several slings, but keep coming back to the Blue Force sling because of its strength and ease of use. It's ease of adjustment by itself is worth the price of the sling.

If you cannot afford the price of an Aimpoint, get a Primary Arms Micro Enhanced with the dial illumination control. Optical quality isn't up to Aimpoint standards, but it's rugged enough to last and surprisingly, battery life is measured in years. You would be better off if you can swing the price of an Aimpoint Pro, but if you can't the Primary Arms Micro Enhanced is worth the money you'll pay for it. The same cannot be said for many of economy brand red dots.

Every house defense rifle should have a weapon light, RDS and sling. In order of importance-
1) Weapon light. If you cannot see and identify your target, you cannot shoot safely.
2) It's a toss up as to whether you should get a sling next, or a red dot sight. A sling makes handling the rifle easier. The sling is the rifle equivalent of a pistol holster. However, a red dot sight will be much easier pick up in low light than iron sights.

Don't worry about the vertical foregrip. It's nice to have if you like them, but are not essential. If it comes down to spending money on a foregrip or a sling, or putting the money towards a light or RDS, get the sling/light/RDS
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:55 AM
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At night in my house, I keep several lamps on during the night throughout several rooms. I donít need a light on my home defense AR. Thereís plenty of lamp light, I donít want any clutter on it that I donít need and I donít want an intruder knowing where I am.

Am I wrong?

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Old 06-23-2018, 10:05 AM
345sire 345sire is offline
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At night in my house, I keep several lamps on during the night throughout several rooms. I donít need a light on my home defense AR. Thereís plenty of lamp light, I donít want any clutter on it that I donít need and I donít want an intruder knowing where I am.

Am I wrong?
Seems to me you have it right, especially if your lights will enhance your view without making it clear to the intruder where you are. I mean, if you can see them, cannot they also see you?
Hallways, and I don't know if it applies in your case, are kind of like pinch zones, they restrict WHOEVER is using them a little, you or the others. Lights there might be a problem, depending on where located, you don't want to BE a silhouette but maybe have them be.
So no, it's my view (not quite worth 2 cents) that not having a light on your firearm isn't a bad thing, it's all about preference (yours) and a given situation.
On the other hand, if you could find a light that wouldn't be in the way on your defense tool, you'd still have the option of using it. Like the fire extinguisher, better to have it and not need it,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:34 AM
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Seems to me you have it right, especially if your lights will enhance your view without making it clear to the intruder where you are. I mean, if you can see them, cannot they also see you?

Hallways, and I don't know if it applies in your case, are kind of like pinch zones, they restrict WHOEVER is using them a little, you or the others. Lights there might be a problem, depending on where located, you don't want to BE a silhouette but maybe have them be.

So no, it's my view (not quite worth 2 cents) that not having a light on your firearm isn't a bad thing, it's all about preference (yours) and a given situation.

On the other hand, if you could find a light that wouldn't be in the way on your defense tool, you'd still have the option of using it. Like the fire extinguisher, better to have it and not need it,,,,,,,,,,,,


An intruder would not be able to see me. At least not very easily. My bedroom is dark. I would be stationary. I would not seek an intruder. Where I would be looking has lights. Hopefully that makes sense.
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:40 AM
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At night in my house, I keep several lamps on during the night throughout several rooms. I don’t need a light on my home defense AR. There’s plenty of lamp light, I don’t want any clutter on it that I don’t need and I don’t want an intruder knowing where I am.

Am I wrong?
I assume that with the lights left on, lighting is still dimmer than normal. There will still shadowed corners and patches an intruder could hide in. Having a weapon light would let you better search them from a safe position.

An intruder could turn the lights off or kill the power to the house. Or, power grid could be interrupted by a storm or accident. Lights kept on all the time burn out their bulbs quicker. Having a weapon light means you still have light to see by. A weapon light is under your direct control. You decide when to use it and where to shine it. Having a weapon light (in addition to the lights left on in the house) is to your advantage.

A weapon light helps you in court. If you have to defend yourself and Mother Dint Donuffin sues you for shooting her precious baby breaking into your home and coming after you with the intent of doing bodily harm, they can't claim you couldn't even see what was going on.

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Old 06-23-2018, 10:44 AM
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I assume that with the lights left on, lighting is still dimmer than normal. There will still shadowed corners and patches an intruder could hide in. Having a weapon light would let you better search them from a safe position.



An intruder could turn the lights off or kill the power to the house. Or, power grid could be interrupted by a storm or accident. Lights kept on all the time burn out their bulbs quicker. Having a weapon light means you still have light to see by. A weapon light is under your direct control. You decide when to use it and where to shine it. Having a weapon light (in addition to the lights left on in the house) is to your advantage.


Great points.

And an intruder will come when you least expect them to. Someone broke into my house 6 years ago on Thanksgiving night at 9 PM. I was not home, but my fiancť was. I call her Superwoman now. Itís a long story and she didnít get hurt, thank the Good Lord above. Sheís a brave woman.

However you set up your home defense strategy, itís a good thing to at least have one. You never know. Iím more prepared now than I ever have been. I still need to practice more. Thatís my sermon for today.

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Old 06-23-2018, 11:31 AM
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Great points.

And an intruder will come when you least expect them to. Someone broke into my house 6 years ago on Thanksgiving night at 9 PM. I was not home, but my fiancť was. I call her Superwoman now. Itís a long story and she didnít get hurt, thank the Good Lord above. Sheís a brave woman.

However you set up your home defense strategy, itís a good thing to at least have one. You never know. Iím more prepared now than I ever have been. I still need to practice more. Thatís my sermon for today.
A good defense strategy is more important than just about any other factor including what gun you use, what caliber it is, whether it's a shotgun, rifle or hand gun, how many rounds it holds and what sort of accessories you have on your gun. Those things are important too but if you're well protected and have a well thought out plan of attack you are miles ahead of the bad guys.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:36 AM
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A good defense strategy is more important than just about any other factor including what gun you use, what caliber it is, whether it's a shotgun, rifle or hand gun, how many rounds it holds and what sort of accessories you have on your gun. Those things are important too but if you're well protected and have a well thought out plan of attack you are miles ahead of the bad guys.


Awesome post! Spot on in my opinion. I also have something now that most donít, and that an intruder would not like. I have a 5 year old Doberman. His name is Boss. He doesnít like intruders. He says hi.



With him... Iíll likely never have an intruder ever again. But I always keep in mind... It can happen when you least expect it.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ARVOL View Post
At night in my house, I keep several lamps on during the night throughout several rooms. I donít need a light on my home defense AR. Thereís plenty of lamp light, I donít want any clutter on it that I donít need and I donít want an intruder knowing where I am.

Am I wrong?
A weapon light isn't just for seeing... it can also be used to blind and disorient the intruder. Like others stated, it is a light you control.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:54 AM
345sire 345sire is offline
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An intruder would not be able to see me. At least not very easily. My bedroom is dark. I would be stationary. I would not seek an intruder. Where I would be looking has lights. Hopefully that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense! On the defensive as you are describing, your odds of survival are increased for sure.
Having said that, the other gent makes a valid point about lighting in your home having the potential to be beyond your control. Again, his comments mirror my "better to have it" remark.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:57 AM
345sire 345sire is offline
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I assume that with the lights left on, lighting is still dimmer than normal. There will still shadowed corners and patches an intruder could hide in. Having a weapon light would let you better search them from a safe position.

An intruder could turn the lights off or kill the power to the house. Or, power grid could be interrupted by a storm or accident. Lights kept on all the time burn out their bulbs quicker. Having a weapon light means you still have light to see by. A weapon light is under your direct control. You decide when to use it and where to shine it. Having a weapon light (in addition to the lights left on in the house) is to your advantage.

A weapon light helps you in court. If you have to defend yourself and Mother Dint Donuffin sues you for shooting her precious baby breaking into your home and coming after you with the intent of doing bodily harm, they can't claim you couldn't even see what was going on.
You make so much sense it's almost disgusting! The point about court is a great thing to consider. Thumbs up to you.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:03 PM
345sire 345sire is offline
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Awesome post! Spot on in my opinion. I also have something now that most donít, and that an intruder would not like. I have a 5 year old Doberman. His name is Boss. He doesnít like intruders. He says hi.



With him... Iíll likely never have an intruder ever again. But I always keep in mind... It can happen when you least expect it.
Love it, Dobies are terrific animals, especially if they have even simple basic obedience training. And they make better pets than most people might think, they are far more than just guard dogs.
BTW, do you have to modify the trigger guard for him?
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Old 06-23-2018, 02:33 PM
MistWolf MistWolf is offline
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goodoboy, here is basic AR setup with everything you need for self defense use and nothing you don't


MagPul Slimline furniture (note the extra length of the handguard), Aimpoint H1, Blue Force Gear adjustable sling and weapon light.

The MagPul Slimline stock accepts M-Lok accessories including QD cup for mounting a sling (cup is on the left side). The extra length gives the shooter more handguard to hang on to and protects the shooter's hand from the hot gas block. Slimline handguards further protect the shooter's hand with heat shielding. They are comfortable, slim, lightweight and rugged.

The Mossie Tactical Midnight Mount locates the 12 o'clock position for easy operation. It holds the light securely and in all the years I've put it to use, it's never come loose.

The Surefire X300 is light, rugged and the switch is ambidextrous, easy to use and simple. Push the switch for momentary and rock the switch up or down to lock it on. It's really bright and the beam gives good coverage.

The sling is padded for comfort and it's easy to adjust. Material is rugged and stitching of good quality. It's a good sling.

I can't think of anything to do to make this AR better for home defense except shortening the barrel and adding a suppressor, but that's another discussion altogether would only detract from this thread.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:04 PM
Dad_Roman Dad_Roman is offline
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Hello,

I currently own the M&Pģ15 SPORT™ II (M&P(R)15 Sport™ II | Smith & Wesson).

I currently own a 9mm SW M&P and use it as home protection. Now I would like to add to my home protection and setup my AR-15 for home protection as well or just going to the range with my family (wife and 18 year old daughter) for target shooting at about 25-100 yards.
Honestly. This is all just a buncha ******* to add to a rifle. Is it cool??? Yea....Is it all on mine??? Yea.

But these weapons are a bit news to you and yours....I think you made good choices, they are the exact choices I made way back when I got into guns.

The most important thing you can do to make them for home protection is to shoot the livin **** outta them both and have everyone become intimately familiar with them (including cleaning at the end of a day)

The most important thing you need to invest in for your guns???

***AMMO***

Theres three of ya....and everyone needs to shoot around 1000 rounds to be comfortable.

Theres ya something to invest in! Thats roughly 600 bucks in 9mm ammo alone.

....kinda makes a flashlight look like a rinkydink expenditure dont it?

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Old 06-25-2018, 10:16 AM
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I also have something now that most donít, and that an intruder would not like. I have a 5 year old Doberman. His name is Boss. He doesnít like intruders. He says hi.
I have a watch dog also. He is something else. He barks wildly when anyone approaches until he figures out if he knows them. He doesn't bite because that will get you a lawsuit too quick. But he sure makes you think he will bite. He's also extremely fast so forget giving him a kick. If he doesn't want to be touched no one is going to touch him. For a long time he wouldn't take food from strangers until the UPS man started giving him treats. I think he probably found them after the guy had left and associated him with the treats. I wish he had not done that.

The dog sleeps inside with us. If someone is around he's going to hear them and bark a lot. He goes with my wife every time she goes outside. We live in the woods with bears and wild hogs and he keeps a watchful eye out for her. I saw him chase two bears up the hill once after they had already killed one of my cats.

A good watch dog is worth it's weight in gold IMO. Best alarm system going. He isn't an attack dog but he is relentless when it comes to intruders. He's a feist BTW. It's a very old breed that has been kept for watch dog purposes for centuries. One saved my great, great, great grandfather's life once. Grandpa shot at a black bear and didn't kill it. Then he got his feet tangled up in some brush. The dog kept the bear busy while grandpa reloaded and killed the bear. That was in about 1840.

The photo shows what it looks like trying to catch my dog. It just isn't possible if he doesn't want to be caught.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:18 AM
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Vertical grips, can openers, microwaves, TV satelite dishes, etc....

Almost all newbies put everything and anything on their new modular rifles. None of it is needed. Its all garbage. The only thing you need is a good flashlight. A flashlight is an absolute necessity. One should never fire at a shadow, and should always know what they are shooting at.

A red dot is a nice to have. Not absolutely necessary, but it does make you more accurate, and quicker, and more likely to get accurate hits. This is the second thing you should buy, after a good flashlight and flashlight mount.

A sling is another nice to have option. Some like them for home defense. Others don't. I don't really think they are necessary for the average home owner, unless you live on lots and lots of acreage and are patrolling a large area.

There you have it. A white light. A red dot. A sling if you want one. Everything else is just added weight.

I buy quality gear, so my flashlights are made by Surefire, Malkoff, Elzetta, or Streamlight. Any of these will serve you well.

For a flashlight mount, look at Elzetta. Cheap, but quality. Impact Weapon Components makes some high quality mounts as well, for a bit more cost. Arisaka Defense makes excellent light mounts as well.

I've been in the AR game now for about 15 years now. Years ago, I used to deck my carbines out with quad rails, lasers, espresso makers, and everything else. The result was a fat pig. My go to war carbine now is a pencil barrel Colt 6720, a Surefire scout light in a IWC mount, and an Aimpoint micro red dot. Thats it. Thats all I want.

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Old 06-29-2018, 01:53 AM
C J C J is offline
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I buy quality gear, so my flashlights are made by Surefire, Malkoff, Elzetta, or Streamlight. Any of these will serve you well.
I don't think a person has to spend big money on a flashlight. The cheaper models work just as well. They aren't highly technical electronic devices like a red dot sight is. There are some electronics in most modern lights but I've had nothing but good luck with $20 lights with CREE 2 bulbs and a modern battery. They are VERY bright and unless you plan on spending a lot of time in a jungle they are likely to be as effective as any light you can mount. I have expensive lights. They have more features but they aren't for mounting on a rifle. They are headlights that are used for working when various levels of light are a must.

Also I don't think a vertical grip is "garbage" at all. Anything that gives me added stability in how I hold a rifle is an asset IMO. Holding onto a hand guard can mean a lot of heat really fast. I have a rifle with a wood hand guard and I've seen smoke roll from that and it only took a couple of mags (30 round mags) to get it very hot. Something that keeps my hand away from that is definitely a plus. I've been shooting high capacity guns for well over 30 years. They all get hot when you shoot them enough. Too hot to handle.
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Old 06-29-2018, 03:24 PM
bubbatime bubbatime is offline
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A $20 flashlight should not be placed on a home defense weapon. They are made in China, the electronics are not robust, the switches are not robust, they are not designed to handle repetitive recoil etc. If your poor and you have to make do, then by all means. If you can afford a $600-$1000 AR15, I would argue that you could afford a $60-$100 flashlight. A $100 Streamlight is a one time purchase. You can use the light for the rest of your life, and it will serve you fine. So don't cheap out. Is your life worth $50?

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Also I don't think a vertical grip is "garbage" at all. Anything that gives me added stability in how I hold a rifle is an asset IMO. Holding onto a hand guard can mean a lot of heat really fast. I have a rifle with a wood hand guard and I've seen smoke roll from that and it only took a couple of mags (30 round mags) to get it very hot. Something that keeps my hand away from that is definitely a plus. I've been shooting high capacity guns for well over 30 years. They all get hot when you shoot them enough. Too hot to handle.
A home defense firearm use is going to be 1-3 shots fired. How hot are those handguards going to be? Vertical grips are just more weight and something else to get snagged, in my personal opinion. I don't care for them. If you like a vertical grip, then use one.
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:34 PM
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Help Setting up 1st AR for Home Defense Mods Help Setting up 1st AR for Home Defense Mods Help Setting up 1st AR for Home Defense Mods Help Setting up 1st AR for Home Defense Mods Help Setting up 1st AR for Home Defense Mods  
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbatime View Post
A $20 flashlight should not be placed on a home defense weapon. They are made in China, the electronics are not robust, the switches are not robust, they are not designed to handle repetitive recoil etc.

A home defense firearm use is going to be 1-3 shots fired. How hot are those handguards going to be? Vertical grips are just more weight and something else to get snagged, in my personal opinion. I don't care for them. If you like a vertical grip, then use one.
I think you're contradicting yourself here. You say a home defense situation is only 1-3 shots but I need a flashlight that will handle repetitive recoil?

The plain fact is my $20 flashlights have stood up to lots and lots of recoil on a 12 ga. shotgun firing buckshot and slugs. My experience is different from your speculation.

Also I fire my AR for more than just home defense. I actually practice with it. It gets hot. The vertical grip is no more of a problem than a sling or the 30 round mags sold everywhere. All can get caught on things. And the weight is negligible given the advantages it gives. You can shoot your AR how you like and so will I. I like a vertical grip because it is easier to hold it stable and it protects me from the searing heat of an AR barrel that has been fired more than a few times. I find the hand guards awkward to hold effectively and it's hard to use a sling with the large mag sticking out of an AR IMO. I have tried it both ways. I think a vertical grip gives a clear advantage.

Also I believe I said I had expensive lights. I can afford more of them if I wanted. I find them much more effective for work environments. But on a rifle a cheap one works just fine for me. One last thing. Not all Streamlights are made in the US. Some are made in China and all of their chargers are. But being made in China doesn't always mean low quality. I have a Norinco SKS that has never failed to feed or fire except from bad ammo or a modification I made. I returned the rifle to the stock state after the modification and it went back to working perfectly through many thousands of rounds over 26 years.

Last edited by C J; 06-30-2018 at 07:40 PM.
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