So, my FFL gent is a bit slooow to get back to me regarding pinning my stock or letting me have it to do on my own, (in New Jersey it can't be released to me non-pinned) so I'm wondering, is there a compelling reason NOT to have more than one stock and swapping the buffer tube out to change the LOP? Having 2 different stocks doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but,,,,,,,
Back in the day I used the Army's M16 and was fine with the old style stock, I'm just wondering, as a Jerseyite, if it's allowed. It doesn't make the evil adjustable stock, I think, But it means I don't have to have it pinned, yet would let me change out the stock itself. Am I courting potential trouble with this idea?
Does anyone have an old A2 stock they'd let go cheap?
Keep me outta jail AND the poorhouse, wouldja?

If you change from the adjustable stock, you will need a new buffer tube, but I think you know that already. So if your guy can't or won't pin the adjustable stock, it's very reasonable to buy a fixed A2 stock and A2 buffer tube and just put that on instead. That should keep you out of jail in gun unfriendly NJ.

That being said, I think pinning the adjustable stock will be cheaper.

__________________
Still carrying my S&W 642

As Kadonny said, the A2 stock requires a different receiver extension (buffer tube), spring, and buffer.

If I understand your question, you are asking if it is reasonable to have both setups and just switch back and forth? If so, then yes, that is unreasonable... the castle nut on the carbine stock should be staked in place by the end plate. Plus, each time you want to change it, you run the risk of losing the detent and spring that keeps your rear pin captured, as well as the buffer retainer.

Think about it this way... pull two pins and you can put a different upper on your lower, yet most end up getting a second lower to make two complete rifles. What you are suggesting is more complicated than just pulling two pins... With the laws in your state, your best bet is two different rifles, or at least two different lowers configured how you want them regarding different stocks and LOP.

As cyphertext said it's too hard to swap back and forth, but if you live in NJ you can't legally swap to the adjustable anyway. Perhaps just leave the adjustable stock in the safe (unpinned) just in case you ever move out of Jersey and then you can do the swap back to the adjustable stock. Swapping one time is not a huge issue, swapping back and forth all the time is an issue as said by cyphertext. Not talking legal wise, just talking physically swapping it with all the parts etc.

__________________
Still carrying my S&W 642

I'd just switch to one of the older fixed stocks if the adjustable was banned where I live. Although fixed doesn't have the cool factor and may end up too long for some shooters, you may find that the gun more comfortable to shoot and you won't have the rattle or looseness some find to be a issue with the adjustable stocks.

Kadonny, thanks, it's not that he can't or won't, it's that he is taking too long to even get back to me. As he happens to be an LEO, and among the closest of FFLs in distance to me, I certainly don't want to antagonize him.
He quoted something in the neighborhood of $80 to pin the stock, and the "not-a-flash hider" thread protector at the end of the barrel. He didn't clarify if that was for both, or each.

Cyphertext, from what I have read, and even seen in pics here, staking castle nuts and other things on the rifle seems to have varying levels of how deeply it's done. I have seen a few pics where people expressed concerns about the staking being deep enough.
I think I can find a happy medium between hard to remove and still not vibrating loose, even if it goes so far as to use the "blue" locktite I use on motorcycle bolts I want to keep secure yet loosen later.

I'm not YET to the point where building multiples of the AR is a viable option.
I'm not looking to switch back and forth with any regularity, but wanted to have the option to do so occasionally without having the long arm of the law grab me by the scruff of the neck.

Kadonny, my thinking was that, as a buddy of mine is near a range we both use in PA, I could swap it out a few times when going to his range. This would afford me the chance to honestly appraise what LOP is best suited to me.
Since I cannot have it unpinned in NJ, I could swap it out when I got there, from the A2 stock.
Other than shotguns and rubber shoulder pads added or no, I haven't been in a position to have adjustable LOPs on any firearms to see how they fit me. Closest thing would be using swappable grips on a few handguns.

Michigan, I hear ya. Cool factor is pretty far down the list of my needs, but comfort and usefulness are up there near the top.
I have always had to adjust myself to the firearm rather than the other way around, so I am looking forward to the opposite in this case. Of course, the military versions back in the day didn't have adjustments either, and I managed.

And YES, the rattle would surely annoy me!!!!!Great point to make. Even tho it's a small thing it can really grate on ones' nerves.

I kinda expect the organs of state security in the DPRNJ would have issues with you having a separate unpinned stock setup and an AR at the same time.

The A1 fixed stock might be a good compromise. It's a bit shorter than the A2 stock.

Moore, I remember reading that about the A1, I just don't yet know what's my best fit. I was hoping this would help me to decide.

If I understand the laws, then since the stock is only loose parts not attached to the firearm, it would simply be parts. Someone looking to buy a new stock and have it pinned should be able to possess it before it becomes a part of a rifle. Then pin it, or bring it to be pinned someplace.
We shouldn't have to have it shipped to a dealer, gunsmith or FFL guy I think.
I dunno, I might be all wet with that thinking,,,,,,,,

Thanks for reminding me about that A1 option!!

I got you. Still, for me it would be too much of an undertaking to even do the swap occaisionally...especially in the field (at the range). You'll need tools, a place to clamp the lower, you have to deal with small parts (springs, detents etc) that can be lost, lots of larger parts and then if you have to deal with staking of the nut (if any). And you have to insure parts stay put for the day of shooting. It's just not worth the hassle for one day of shooting. You're going to go through an hour of work or so and all that part swapping just to figure out your LOP? Not worth it at all.

Can't you possibly borrow someone elses rifle while in PA and help use that one to figure our your desired LOP? Lot's of guys own a carbine length gun with an adjustable stock. Use one to measure your desired LOP and then replicate that measurement on your gun for NJ. That would be way easier.

Out of curiosity, have you ever built a lower or done work on a lower with regards to a buffer tube and stock swap?

__________________
Still carrying my S&W 642

My collapsible stock may as well be pinned. I set it on the first notch out and only extend it further when I put it in the range bag... ordered the wrong size bag.

My own personal preference is for an A1 or A2 stock over a collapsible. The A1 stock is a little shorter and lighter than the A2. A1 is 12.875” LOP and A2 is 13.5” LOP. But I am more of a traditional target shooter than a tactical shooter so I shoot from the older military target positions, not the “squared up” positions, and utilize a two point sling.

I’d try the A1 first. Numrich has both A1 and A2 used stocks. They will know if they can ship to you. I didn’t see any restrictions on their website. Both the A1 and A2 use the same buffer and tube. But if you go with the A1, get the A1 stock screw. It is a bit shorter than the A2 screw. The extra length of the A2 screw protrudes into the tube with the A1 and can chew up the buffer.

Keep the carbine RE on your lower and get a Magpul Fixed Length Carbine stock. It works on a carbine RE but isn't adjustable. When you go to Pennsylvania, you can swap stocks without having to swap REs. The MagPul Fixed Length Stock is locked to the RE with a cross screw.

Kadonny, regretfully none of the people I shoot with has an AR yet. The fellow I would be shooting with has a place in Pennsy and we can do the swap at his place on the way to the range, he has enough tools and a wood shop vise that we could use if it were needed. Throwing my armorer's wrench and a can of "liquid wrench" in the car is nothing,,,,,,,,,

I haven't taken apart a lower on an AR yet, but have worked on several other firearms, and have been wrenching on cars and motorcycles for 40 plus years. I'm confident in my (admittedly limited as it applies to firearms) skill set regarding the tweaking of the buffer tube/detent/spring etc. not to lose or break much of anything.

Perhaps I'm misjudging the situation, but I actually thought it wouldn't take more than 5 or 10 minutes to swap these out. Maybe it's more of a hassle than I anticipate? It did take a bit more effort to remove the barrel from the upper the first time than I expected, but that is supposed to be a relatively infrequent task, and meant to be on the harder (physically)to do end of the spectrum, I have presumed.
Your responses thus far make me realize you are probably well experienced in this arena, so I AM taking you seriously. And appreciating every word.

Huh? Too SMALL to fit in the bag? Wow, that sounds like my complaints about my jockstrap!

Or am I reading what you wrote wrong?

Spad, Thanks, I hadn't realized the difference between the stocks was that small. I thought I read someplace they were 3 inches or so different, but you seem to be talking from personal knowledge. And the screw being different is something else I did not pick up on yet.
Numrich is one of the places I have looked, but it seems their site is a little light on details on the stuff listed. But they DO have decent schematics.
Thanks for speaking up!

I'm not fond of what most of the Magpul stocks look like.
However the lack of effort required to change out is a serious positive factor. And if the buffer tube can stay in place, it makes it FAR easier to get used to the idea of accepting something less than beautiful mounted temporarily. Good idea!

Umm, maybe I'm having a brain glitch, but I can't recall what "RE" is. Is that another way of saying the buffer tube assembly? ( I know that seems a rookie question, well, I AM a rookie with AR 15s)

RE= Receiver Extension, the proper name for what some call the "buffer tube"'

Swapping REs isn't difficult, but every time you remove or install a carbine RE, you run the risk of damaging the threads with the backing plate. Then there is the hassle of making sure the carbine RE isn't crooked.

Nope, you are understanding the issue... apparently ordered a rifle length bag. I have to extend the stock fully to be able to have the barrel in the pocket at one end and the strap around the stock at the other to hold it in place.

Ahhh, okay, that's new phrasing to me, thank you.
I'll add it to the growing list of words and terms that are specific to the AR genre. Like bullet puller outer thingy and clipazine.

No, really, receiver extension does makes sense once you think about it.

That I understand perfectly! Some shotguns were in cases that are close to a foot too long. Took time to find suitable ones.

Well, it's way better to have a shop and tools available for the swap, way more secure.

So I'm trying to remember the time it takes with all the steps involved. I've built a whole bunch of lowers so I've done it many times. It's not super hard, it's a little tedious and the steps have to be done in sequence or it won't work. 5 or 10 minutes for a complete swap? No way. Half hour? Maybe. You have to take your time or you can mess things up or even strip threads.

If you feel comfortable to do it, go ahead and try. I'd be very interested in seeing how long it takes somene who has never done it before and what your thoughts on it are. There are 2 springs and detents that will fly out if not careful, one in the endplate when removed and one in the buffer tube (RE) that holds the buffer in (buffer retainer). Other than that, do a Youtube look up before doing it so you know the steps and give it a whirl.

Still, maybe I can see you doing this swap once, it won't be something you will want to do on a regular basis. Trust me.

So where in PA are you shooting? I'm a eastern PA guy.

__________________
Still carrying my S&W 642

I actually have skimmed a couple of videos of several processes, and am a big believer in R.T.F.M., so yes, I will probably do the YouTube thing.
Changing spark plugs in my machines isn't something I do a lot of either, but I have gotten decent at it.

I have been to the Heritage range a couple of times, and another in Easton, I forget the name, but lately my buddy had me join the East Bath Rod and Gun Club, in yes, East Bath. It's less than 30 minutes into Pa.,where Rte.78 comes in.
Is it too much of a coincidence to hope you'd have been there too?

354sire, using the MagPul Fixed Length Carbine stock, with a simple screw driver you can go from this


to this, in just two minutes

I would HATE a pinned stock. I would absolutely prefer an A2 stock. What about the Magpul fixed stock that fits over the carbine buffer tube? Id go that route if legal. Super easy install, no need to pin anything.

The Magpul MOE fixed carbine stock.
MOE(R) Fixed Carbine Stock – Mil-Spec

Here is my Precision AR, built by myself and I was going for a look based on the original M-16. The A2 butt stock is by DPMS and purchased from Midway. Also note the 20 inch barrel, it's a Shilen barrel with nothing but a crown at the muzzle. Should be perfectly compliant for NJ and it will shoot to sub 3/10 MOA when rested front and rear. BTW, the upper and handguard is by Gibbz Arms and I can HIGHLY recommend their products.

Attached Images

ar15 First Test Small.jpg (89.9 KB, 174 views)

I don't see anything in the posting.
I tried opening what seems to be 2 links in what shows up in the response window, but it says that the "smugmug" link has that 404 error we see all the time.

But, you make a valid point for sure even with just your typing.

I don't love the idea of a pinned stock either, believe me. But until I can get wifey to agree on moving elsewhere,,,,,,,,,,,,

I wish the A1 or A2 stock would fit with the same EZ swapout, they look better IMHO.

Looks nice! I haven't seen that particular handguard look before, it's an interesting mix of perforation hole styles.
I see the rail on top, but the other openings, at least in the pic, I only notice the M-Lok sort of slots in a couple places, but the others don't look like keyhole types.
As I'm still new to all this, is there another style of attachment I'm missing?

The A2 stock and the bright barrel really complement each other, btw.

I'm not sure what's going on. The photos aren't showing up when I try to view them on my phone, but they came through fine on my computer.

I don't have a smartphone. I use the computer for all this stuff.
The flip phone I do have is so old it has a dial.

I even tried cut and paste with the gobbledygook that showed in the reply box here. Didn't work for me. Guess MY level of computer skills is limited, maybe to pencil sharpening 101.

I have not, but I'm not far from there. My range is Reading which is only about a half hour from Allentown/Easton.

Anyway, good luck if you do the swap. Let me know how it goes.

__________________
Still carrying my S&W 642

I found the problem and fixed it. You should see the photos now

Gibbz has a rather unique method for mounting their handguards. First there is a Base Mount that threads into the upper and you slide an internal castle nut to secure the barrel to the upper. After that you slide the upper onto the Base Mount and secure it with 4 button head screws. Makes it very simple to remove the handguard if you want to add some rails to it. Those long narrow slots are the mounting points and it's a hex shaped handguard. So, you have the top rail, provisions for adding rails or rail sections for the full length of the bottom and at forward and rear positions on the upper angled surfaces on either side of the top rail.

As for the upper, it's a side charging upper and Gibbz offer them in right or left handed and with options in terms ejection port size, ports covered or not, and bolt assist or not. They also offer uppers for AR-15 or AR-10 caliber setups. Plus they offer a variety of Cerakote colors or patterns. Downside is that these parts are NOT cheap but when you are building a full on custom you have to expect it will be rather spendy. This rifle was a present to myself as a reward for going a full year without cigarettes. BTW at present I am 6 years smoke free.

I will, for sure, thanks.
I'll have to ask my buddy or do a search for Reading, see where it is in relationship to his range, or to me.
Thanks for adding your many cents worth!

Oooh, purty! And EZ, too, if 2 min. with a screwdriver does it.
I appreciate your messing with the photos on my behalf.

6 years? GOOD ON YOU!!! I have quit many times, but still working on making it last. Doc just ordered me some pills to help, so we'll see.

Not ready to commit to an expensive build yet, still have to decide if the AR type rifle is right for me and mine. But that outfit does seem to make some cool stuff!

You're welcome

Remove one cross screw and the MagPul Fixed Length Carbine Stock just slides off the RE.

I think fixed stocks are most CooL.

And yet with 4 in the pic, only one has that feature!

Don't mind me, that's just jealousy on my part rearing it's ugly head up! 4, dang!

I don't have the one one the left anymore, it was a Spikes pistol AR I bought local for $400, then sold it for $600.

Never liked the pistol AR's, but love the short barrel ones... stamped my 2 back when ATF wait times were only 5 months.

Still my favorite might be the 16" one with the A2 stock.

Well, none of 'em is ugly, thass fer sher!