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  #51  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:11 PM
debgram debgram is offline
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So it's normal for the red dot to jitter around? Or was that just me struggling with the arm holding in that position?


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Even with the arms of a 6-footer, I don't like that long reach to hold the rifle.
Use a support for the rifle as much as possible, even when you become proficient. That way, you can focus on the sights and trigger, and not be tempted to jerk the trigger when the sights wander over the target (and they will wander ). THEN, as you practice less steady positions--and there are a TON of them--your shooting will be even better.
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  #52  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:26 PM
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So it's normal for the red dot to jitter around? Or was that just me struggling with the arm holding in that position?
If the rifle is still, the sights won't move. Any contact with a gun will cause movement, which will affect the sight. Minimizing that movement is at the heart of marksmanship. With practice, you will learn how to allow for unavoidable movement. Don't be discouraged--GO FOR IT! There are few things as empowering as developing the skills to get hits under varying conditions.

I had my AR at the range last week, shooting steel plates at 100yd--one of which was a 4" disc. A LOT of my shooting was using support (even if it was just resting the magazine on the bench) so I could focus on the sight picture and trigger, but I also shot standing, with the sights inevitably moving a bit. The faint ting! of bullets hitting steel made all the effort worthwhile!!
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Old 04-21-2019, 03:37 PM
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Cool. Ok so I now know that was me causing the jitter. Cause as my arm kept feeling heavier and sore I wasn't really controlling the gun too well. Yes I defiantly need to use support. What I need to do is save money and get a membership to the new indoor range we have here. Their supposed to have a new deal coming out in a few days maybe I can convince hubby to squeeze some money my way....



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If the rifle is still, the sights won't move. Any contact with a gun will cause movement, which will affect the sight. Minimizing that movement is at the heart of marksmanship. With practice, you will learn how to allow for unavoidable movement. Don't be discouraged--GO FOR IT! There are few things as empowering as developing the skills to get hits under varying conditions.

I had my AR at the range last week, shooting steel plates at 100yd--one of which was a 4" disc. A LOT of my shooting was using support (even if it was just resting the magazine on the bench) so I could focus on the sight picture and trigger, but I also shot standing, with the sights inevitably moving a bit. The faint ting! of bullets hitting steel made all the effort worthwhile!!
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  #54  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:44 PM
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Cool. Ok so I now know that was me causing the jitter. Cause as my arm kept feeling heavier and sore I wasn't really controlling the gun too well. Yes I defiantly need to use support. What I need to do is save money and get a membership to the new indoor range we have here. Their supposed to have a new deal coming out in a few days maybe I can convince hubby to squeeze some money my way....
Good lesson to learn! Fatigue is an accuracy killer. As you shoot, take breaks; put the gun down, relax, take some breaths and get some water.
At that last session, I didn't think I was on the range very long, but after 300rd (even being deliberate, it goes FAST through an AR!), I was a bit surprised how tired I felt as I drove away, and I like to think I'm fairly fit!!
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Old 04-21-2019, 04:00 PM
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Thanks for all the info. You guys are great and I'm glad I was actually helped and not made fun of. Some of these forums people will tear you down and make fun of a question that they deem stupid. Thanks a bunch!!

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Good lesson to learn! Fatigue is an accuracy killer. As you shoot, take breaks; put the gun down, relax, take some breaths and get some water.
At that last session, I didn't think I was on the range very long, but after 300rd (even being deliberate, it goes FAST through an AR!), I was a bit surprised how tired I felt as I drove away, and I like to think I'm fairly fit!!
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Old 04-21-2019, 04:03 PM
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Thanks for all the info. You guys are great and I'm glad I was actually helped and not made fun of. Some of these forums people will tear you down and make fun of a question that they deem stupid. Thanks a bunch!!
We all started from the same place, and it's almost as much fun to help a new shooter enjoy her hobby as it is to actually shoot!
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:46 PM
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I have a M&P 15 Sport II, and after my first range session, my left arm and the tip of my right shoulder hurt, even with the light recoil. (Note -my left shoulder is partially dislocated - permanently. Also blood thinners and other things. I bruise way too easily.) I switched to Magpul furniture, a front vertical grip, and a thick, soft, ATI X2 recoil pad. All the difference I needed. 10 30-round mags in a session are "oh - I have to reload them now?"
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:55 PM
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I have a M&P 15 Sport II, and after my first range session, my left arm and the tip of my right shoulder hurt, even with the light recoil. (Note -my left shoulder is partially dislocated - permanently. Also blood thinners and other things. I bruise way too easily.) I switched to Magpul furniture, a front vertical grip, and a thick, soft, ATI X2 recoil pad. All the difference I needed. 10 30-round mags in a session are "oh - I have to reload them now?"
Do you still use the original handguard, without heat shields? How do they handle heat for you? At my most recent range outing, I put them back on my Sport 2 (I really like the Magpul MOE guards); my hand would get hot from fairly rapid fire (the range prohibits really fast shooting, like mag dumps), but not painfully so.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:12 PM
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Rastoff's "How we were trained" first pic is my experience as well. I also use 10 round mags so I can tuck up even tighter (keeping the mag from tearing at my arm).
But I do have to admit that I trained with an M1. They didn't have enough of those new-fangled rifles for us.
I even went looking for 5 round mini14 mags for the same reason.

As to the buttpad on the stock, regardless of all the "it won't hurt comments", I have some serious bone loss from cancer, and have a replacement pad on mine (magpul) as well. I can pull a 6 inch diameter bruise from leaning against the wall.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:46 PM
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With the vertical front grip, I almost never touch the handguard. I notice it does get warm above my left hand hold, so at that point, I know it's time to lock the action open and let it cool for a few minutes.
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Old 04-21-2019, 07:21 PM
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So the factory handguard has no heat shields? I noticed some heat but nothing major, getting burned by a match would have been hotter. But of course I only shot 1 shot at a time no rapid stuff.


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Do you still use the original handguard, without heat shields? How do they handle heat for you? At my most recent range outing, I put them back on my Sport 2 (I really like the Magpul MOE guards); my hand would get hot from fairly rapid fire (the range prohibits really fast shooting, like mag dumps), but not painfully so.
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:02 PM
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So the factory handguard has no heat shields? ...
Mine is not S&W, so can't say what the hand guard consists of. Mine has a free float quad rail. You can see the barrel through the many rail cuts, so no "heat shield" other than distance. I will say that after 30-60 rounds you can get quite a burn from the barrel, so be careful when you are packing up after a shoot.
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  #63  
Old 04-21-2019, 08:16 PM
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The S&W Sport 2 comes with a black foregrip that looks like the military parts, but does not have a heat shield. In military handguards, the shield is a silvery aluminum sheet riveted to the inside of the parts. The Magpul MOE handguards, which I normally keep on my rifle, have a black heatshield on the inside. Why black? I don’t know.
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:38 PM
BGM109 BGM109 is offline
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Rastoff, That was the best explanation I have seen & read in years. I hope she has fun shooting her rifle. You must have been an Instructor. Great job, makes all shooters stop & think about what their trying to accomplish. take your time, slow down, time your breathing & slowly pull the trigger. the gun will do the rest. Tom
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:32 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Running a couple of things that have cropped up:

Don't have the stock so short your nose touches the charging handle or any other part of the rifle. You want at least an inch-more is better- between your nose and any parts of the rifle. If you mount the gun in a hurry, whacking yourself in the nose is a distinct possibility otherwise.

DON'T hold the magazine, that's not what it's made for. You can have your hand on/against the magazine well (Picture 2 above). Depending upon your hand size though, if your hand is there and the dust cover is closed, it may whack your hand when the bolt cycles the first time.

The jittering of the dot/sight is called the wobble area. Very, very few people can hold a long gun actually still. With practice, you can reduce the wobble area, but what you want to do is keep the wobble area on target and shoot within it. Don't try to yank the trigger when the dot/sight crosses or comes close to your aiming point.

You might want to try shooting from some supported positions to help you learn. These would be prone, sitting, kneeling, barricade (use a post to help stabilize the support hand/fore end) or from bench.
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