Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles Dedicated to the Smith & Wesson M&P-15 Rifles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:04 PM
feduncan's Avatar
feduncan feduncan is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: SE North Carolina
Posts: 12
Likes: 6
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Default S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE

How does the S&W M&P 15 stack up against the Colt M4 Carbine?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-15-2020, 04:41 PM
thebolt thebolt is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 30
Likes: 33
Liked 103 Times in 21 Posts
Default

I would not say these are comparable other than being of the same platform. You get what you pay for and the quality of all AR rifles is not the same. There are many opinions on this topic but this one is mine, shared by some but clearly not by all. I would not say the M&P AR is in the same class as the Colt. Taurus does not compare to Smith & Wesson revolvers and the S&W AR does not compare to a Colt.

Lets all be respectful as we disagree on this topic.

Best wishes to my fellow forum members!
__________________
LE Det/Instructor-retired
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 01-15-2020, 06:39 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,490
Likes: 4
Liked 2,280 Times in 1,198 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebolt View Post
I would not say these are comparable other than being of the same platform. You get what you pay for and the quality of all AR rifles is not the same. There are many opinions on this topic but this one is mine, shared by some but clearly not by all. I would not say the M&P AR is in the same class as the Colt. Taurus does not compare to Smith & Wesson revolvers and the S&W AR does not compare to a Colt.

Lets all be respectful as we disagree on this topic.

Best wishes to my fellow forum members!
I've never had an S&W AR15 facsimile; they may shoot and function very well and may be just as accurate or more accurate than a Colt. However, if you ever have resale in mind, the Colt likely have more appeal and may be much easier to sell or trade. Also, the Colt will probably retain value better than an S&W or some other copy. Certainly, opinions vary on this.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 01-15-2020, 07:11 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,145
Likes: 223
Liked 2,244 Times in 1,218 Posts
Default

We ran Colts & M&P15s along side each other in what several "other" brands termed abusive use. The S&Ws ran right along with the Colts and has, by far, the better warranty and service in the very few instances it may be needed. It's service with a smile, not a sneer.

Unless it's changed, the Colt warranty is if you break it, you get to keep all the pieces, no extra charge. They've only recently started being reasonable about replacement part costs. The reason doesn't extend across the board on parts. In some cases, you're paying for the name, not the part.

As previously noted, the Sport/Sport II is not the same as the M&P15. It's an item designed, built and sold at a price point.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:00 PM
cd228 cd228 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: working for Uncle Sam
Posts: 39
Likes: 13
Liked 24 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Both are fairly good rifles. I've carried Colt for work and shot S&W for fun and used both COLT and S&W parts for builds. BLUFF: If you are buying it as a duty weapon, used for high round count classes or dedicated fighting rifle I'd recommend the Colt. If you want a range toy, or a fun shooter that could be used for self defense in a pinch, The Smith would be fine.

The Colt will probably cost more and be a little harder to get. The Colt will most likely have a higher resale value (no guarantees). Colt 6920 series rifles have chrome lined 4150 barrels while the S&Ws could have a melonited 4140 barrel (depending on model). While I would expect a longer life span from the Colt barrel due to the metallurgy, that may or may not prove to be the case in your experience (ammo used, firing schedule, maintenance regime all factor in). Colt has been the "Gold Standard" for ARs for a number of years and has provided service rifles for various federal agencies.

The Smith sport series has proven to be very reliable. The late Pat Rogers from EAG tactical, notorious for being hard on rifles, commented many times on how the M&P Sport models made it through his high round count classes. While Rogers recommended Colt and then BCM, he was impressed by the M&P and that impressed me too.

Last edited by cd228; 01-15-2020 at 08:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:59 PM
vonn's Avatar
vonn vonn is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: houston,texas
Posts: 6,543
Likes: 111,389
Liked 21,547 Times in 5,243 Posts
Default

A military grade m4 colt built to military specs is not the same as any of the very many civilian models made by many manufacturers. Civilian models are more than adequate for use but not necessarily combat level. ( Strictly my opinion after a one year torture test
I performed years ago)
__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:57 AM
Univibe's Avatar
Univibe Univibe is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: TX
Posts: 750
Likes: 2
Liked 973 Times in 405 Posts
Default

We have 6920s and a M&P Sport.

The Smith is a surprisingly good value for the money. For $500 you get a M4 type AR that shoots just fine, is essentially as accurate as the 6920 with bulk grade ammo, and is mil-spec enough that you can change out parts at will. The trigger on the Sport, at least on a sample of one, is cleaner than on my 6920.

I think the difference will show up if you run thousands of rounds. The Colt is subjected to higher specs and more testing than the Smith. That's why it costs almost twice as much.

Most ARs sold are shot little, if at all. If you plan on popping a few rounds, get the Smith. If you use it for competition, duty, or to save your life, I'd spring for the Colt (or another rifle in its price and spec range, such as SOLGW or BCM). These and a few others are the $1000 more or less range. You get a lot of rifle in this price range.

There are many ARs in the $500 range. If I were buying an AR in the $500 range, it would definitely be the Smith.

Indeed, I know somebody who bought a 6920 last year. Shot it a little and when Colt stopped sending rifles and prices went up, he parked it in the safe and got the Smith for range duties. Totally satisfied he is.

Last edited by Univibe; 01-16-2020 at 12:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 01-16-2020, 01:19 AM
the Ar-15 Junkie the Ar-15 Junkie is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Likes: 5
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feduncan View Post
How does the S&W M&P 15 stack up against the Colt M4 Carbine?

What is $400.00 dollars cheaper about a Smith vs the Colt?

Lets start with the Smith barrel. My guess is Smith has less than $20 dollars manufacturing cost in the barrel. It comes with a 1/9 twist which is only really optimized for 55 grain bullets. NO chrome lining. NO government profile. Why does the lack of the government profile even matter, just cosmetics? If a Carbine doesn’t have the Government profile it doesn’t really look like a true carbine in my opinion. I have to wonder though how much $$$ Smith saves when machining a million barrels over 10 years and not having to do the extra machine work on that many barrels, and, it does add to the overall weight. Speaking of weight, that OR Optic Ready gas block is HEAVY, then add that to the non-government profile barrel and the thrill of your cheap quality AR can sub for a barbell lol. And every Smith I removed the barrel nut from was not really tight at all lol.

On ever Smith I have owned the A2 FSB was canted a few degrees from the factory, some more so than others. But most people will never notice. They are first time owners, not precision shooters, and most just throw a red dot on and never notice it. I had one example so canted a drop in piston kit would not even line up enough to function.

For the extra $400 dollars with Colt you get the lighter more aesthetically pleasing government profile barrel, chrome lined, 1/7 twist with A2 front sight blocks properly timed. And the barrel nut properly torqued.

OK take a look at your castle nut staking. WOW, what a joke, every Smith I have seen has the poorest excuse of castle nut staking possible, a joke. Looks like someone took a rusty old flat blade screwdriver they found on the side of the road and made a scratch on the castle nut. Go look at yours and see if any displaced metal exists and if it does is it even on the correct side of the notch? I pointed this out to a salesman the other day at a dealership and he lol when he saw it.

For the extra $400.00 with Colt you get a properly staked castle nut done by a machine that looks perfect.

Now go look at your buffer. See around the outer edge all chewed up from the buffer slamming into the buffer retainer? Some worse than others. I had 2 that were so bad, basically cosmetic yes, so after replacing the buffers I removed the buffer retainer all together and don’t even use it. I had one almost break from being bent. Took the opportunity to fix the crappy castle nut staking at the same time I removed the buffer retainers.

For the extra $400.00 with Colt you don’t have this problem as Colts are built to true military design specifications and the buffer doesn’t impact the buffer retainer when the gun is cycling. AND with Colt you get an H buffer, not a Carbine buffer like Smith provides.

Now, look at your bolt, does it say MP on it? What does that mean? Does it means your Smith bolt has been Magnetic Particle tested? Probably not, Smith does batch testing where they test only a few examples out of every hundred or so that comes off the assembly line.

For the extra $400.00 with Colt you get a MP tested bolt as Colt tests every single one.

Look at the crappy Parkerizing on the Smith BCG and Crappy staking on the carrier key.

For the extra $400.00 with Colt you get a true mill spec parkerized BCG and properly staked Gas key.

I could go on and on about gas tube dimension specs, pin and trigger holes, flash hiders not properly torqued ect, ect.
Now you wonder if a Smith gives you the thrill of a cheap quality AR, its the Colt that gives you thrill of a Quality AR at a bargain price.

There are actually some things about the Smiths I like. The machining of the mag wells are perfect. Every magazine I use snap in and drop put perfectly. The mill spec triggers work great for what they are. I even buy Smith AR lower parts kits for other guns I assemble because they are great quality for the price.
And everything on these Smiths I mentioned above are mostly fixable.

But these Smiths are indeed cheap, and in the long run, it’s a bargain to pay the extra $400.00 for the Colt, or unfortunately it once was when Colts were still available.

I currently own as of writing this 7 Smiths, 2 with Osprey Piston Kits, I enjoy them all.

But yes, Smiths are what they are , pretty much cheap. But I still love mine.


https://i.imgur.com/lxCguoD.jpg

Last edited by the Ar-15 Junkie; 01-16-2020 at 01:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:14 AM
Univibe's Avatar
Univibe Univibe is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: TX
Posts: 750
Likes: 2
Liked 973 Times in 405 Posts
Default

I agree with Junkie above on the price differential. When the 6920 was $900, you were paying a $400 difference and getting much more rifle. Sure, for $900 you can walk out with a budget AR, a red dot, some Pmags, and ammo. On the other hand, if you're going to have that rifle for decades, how much really is $400 more over that period?

I made that decision 2 years ago. After shooting 20" AR for ages, I wanted an M4 type. I skipped the budget lines and bought 6920. I thought it was worth the extra $400.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:17 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,145
Likes: 223
Liked 2,244 Times in 1,218 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Ar-15 Junkie View Post
What is $400.00 dollars cheaper about a Smith vs the Colt?

Lets start with the Smith barrel. My guess is Smith has less than $20 dollars manufacturing cost in the barrel. It comes with a 1/9 twist which is only really optimized for 55 grain bullets. NO chrome lining. NO government profile.
The M&P15 barrels have hard chrome bores/chambers. 1/9 works fine up to 75 grains, depending upon velocity & length. Accuracy superior to 1/7 below those weights by independent tests. Not having grenade launchers, most people can do without the mounting cut.

4140 does machine a wee bit easier than 4150, however the only time the alloy makes a difference is if you're doing endless mag dumps. The chrome lining is about 2-3 times harder than the base metal in either case.

Quote:
Now, look at your bolt, does it say MP on it? What does that mean? Does it means your Smith bolt has been Magnetic Particle tested? Probably not, Smith does batch testing where they test only a few examples out of every hundred or so that comes off the assembly line.
The AR was most likely the last item purchased under the ancient "cost plus ten" standard for government contracts. That is, builders cost plus ten percent profit. There's also the factor that the originator was Fairchild Industries, a manufacturer of aircraft and aircraft parts and that the design was new.

So, you have an original source with both a habit and inclination to OCD inspection and tracking of parts being rewarded for jacking up costs. I'll also note that with modern machinery, materials and practices, the obsessive testing is of much less utility than back 60 years ago. There's also 60 odd years experience with the design, and MP inspected bolts seem to crack locking lugs just like the ones that aren't with enough use.

My apologies for straying from the OPs needs. But, we beat both types without mercy, using specific rifles for training purposes at extremely high round counts and saw no significant difference in breakage, or excessive wear. OTOH, a brand X, Y & Z examples needed replacement of barrel, BCG and entire trigger group parts at the end of a CQB cycle.

Last edited by WR Moore; 01-16-2020 at 11:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:12 PM
feduncan's Avatar
feduncan feduncan is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: SE North Carolina
Posts: 12
Likes: 6
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Thanks for the input guys. I hope I'll be able to find a Colt. I don't know how long it'll be before they are more available though.
FE Duncan
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 01-16-2020, 01:51 PM
AManWearingAHat's Avatar
AManWearingAHat AManWearingAHat is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 259
Likes: 52
Liked 349 Times in 136 Posts
Default

I would say smith and colt are not in the same league. Smith and Wesson AR's are generally a littler lower end on the features and finish than a colt would be.

THAT SAID, I firmly believe and will until I shuffle off this planet that Colt's era of being top dog in the AR-15 market has long eclipsed. There is nothing special about them anymore and they're not worth the premium to have a Pony on it. Daniel Defense, LMT, Noveske, Bravo Company, KAC, all make significantly better rifles.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 01-16-2020, 03:19 PM
the Ar-15 Junkie the Ar-15 Junkie is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Likes: 5
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feduncan View Post
Thanks for the input guys. I hope I'll be able to find a Colt. I don't know how long it'll be before they are more available though.
FE Duncan

Arms Unlimited

Clyde Armory

All in stock ready to ship.


I think the Smith Sport 2 is a good beater gun, good to learn the AR platform on, how to work on, modify, maintain, I have several. I would recommend it as a beginner gun.

Last edited by the Ar-15 Junkie; 01-16-2020 at 03:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 01-16-2020, 05:24 PM
sgtsandman's Avatar
sgtsandman sgtsandman is online now
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 331
Liked 603 Times in 413 Posts
Default

The members above have pretty much covered it. In simpler terms, think of it this way.



If you are going to use it for home defense, range shooting, and/or hunting, a S&W will serve you just fine.



If you are going to be using it to make a living on an every day basis, then get the Colt or another higher end AR.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:43 PM
Univibe's Avatar
Univibe Univibe is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: TX
Posts: 750
Likes: 2
Liked 973 Times in 405 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AManWearingAHat View Post
I would say smith and colt are not in the same league. Smith and Wesson AR's are generally a littler lower end on the features and finish than a colt would be.

THAT SAID, I firmly believe and will until I shuffle off this planet that Colt's era of being top dog in the AR-15 market has long eclipsed. There is nothing special about them anymore and they're not worth the premium to have a Pony on it. Daniel Defense, LMT, Noveske, Bravo Company, KAC, all make significantly better rifles.
How do you know?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 01-16-2020, 09:11 PM
old tanker old tanker is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fort Knox, Kentucky
Posts: 772
Likes: 2,677
Liked 1,366 Times in 470 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonn View Post
A military grade m4 colt built to military specs is not the same as any of the very many civilian models made by many manufacturers. Civilian models are more than adequate for use but not necessarily combat level. ( Strictly my opinion after a one year torture test
I performed years ago)
Yes, a year in the jungle or a year in the sandbox put a real premium on reliability under all environmental conditions. It also makes a difference if you are mounted or dismounted. I am not 100% certain a 7-3/4 pound M4 is better than a 6-1/2 pound M16A1 if the prime mover has to walk everywhere they go with everything on their back.

Bump fire mag dump on sunny day range toys, cheap is fine.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:44 PM
sgtsandman's Avatar
sgtsandman sgtsandman is online now
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 331
Liked 603 Times in 413 Posts
Default

The M4 has the advantage of a shorter barrel, which is useful for room clearing and when getting in and out of vehicles. Outside of that, the M16A1 has the advantage of lighter weight, some what better accuracy due to the full length barrel especially at longer ranges, and longer barrel life because of the rifle length gas system over the carbine length gas system. Assuming they share a 1:7 twist barrel.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:03 PM
cd228 cd228 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: working for Uncle Sam
Posts: 39
Likes: 13
Liked 24 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by old tanker View Post
Yes, a year in the jungle or a year in the sandbox put a real premium on reliability under all environmental conditions. It also makes a difference if you are mounted or dismounted. I am not 100% certain a 7-3/4 pound M4 is better than a 6-1/2 pound M16A1 if the prime mover has to walk everywhere they go with everything on their back.

Bump fire mag dump on sunny day range toys, cheap is fine.
I carried both an M16A2 (with round hand guards) and an M4 during a 15 month tour in Iraq (not by choice, I changed duty positions). The M16 got hung up exiting a vehicle on several occasions and it's lack of optics made it slower to come on target. Additionally, it's lack of an IR laser, light (or the ability to easily mount one) and it's lack of an optic was also a noticeable during night missions. So, I for one would have gladly swapped the M16A2 for an M4 with m68 and a PEQ-4, Yes it would have been heavier, but It would have been more effective. Also, I found the adjustable stock M4 easier to shoot while wearing body armor due the length of stock vs the length of my arm (ymmv) Yes, you could put a rail, light, laser and optic (via goose neck) on the M16A2, but it would have weighted more than the M4 with similar equipment.

Yes, a 20 inch barrel provides better performance with M855 on paper, but that could have been nullified by the Angle of attack issue identified with the M855. Of course that issue was fixed with the 855A1. So the M16A2 really provided no advantage except a lighter weight, and that didn't necessarily translate into effects on a target.

That said, if I wanted a simple rifle to shoot paper targets using iron sights in broad daylights, the M16A2 would be an excellent choice. When I shot my personal 20" AR (BCM upper, STAG Lower) after that tour I was amazed how light it felt compared to my duty M4.

FWIW a COLT AR15A4 (20" with detachable carry handle and round hand guards) lists as 7.7 pounds
A COLT M16A1 reissue (20" with fixed carry handle an triangle guards ) lists at 6.37 pounds
A COLT 6920 SOCOM (14.5" SOCOM barrel (heavy) with KAC RAS and MATECH rear sight) lists at 6.95pounds. So you are have a fraction of pound difference between the two.

Last edited by cd228; 01-16-2020 at 11:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:27 PM
Imissedagain's Avatar
Imissedagain Imissedagain is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 752
Likes: 180
Liked 577 Times in 317 Posts
Default

If you only have a S&W AR then you can't' say to Sailors and Equestrians from the East side of the Pond...... let's take a few Ponies out to the barn and shoot them!

Last edited by Imissedagain; 01-16-2020 at 11:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:41 PM
LostintheOzone's Avatar
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is online now
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WA.
Posts: 2,896
Likes: 2,582
Liked 2,715 Times in 1,323 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feduncan View Post
Thanks for the input guys. I hope I'll be able to find a Colt. I don't know how long it'll be before they are more available though.
FE Duncan
I don't think Colt plans to re-enter the civilian market, at least not anytime soon. Prices on used ones are going up well over the cost of a new one when you could get one. As soon as Colt announced no more being available to dealers they were all gone in a few days. The market is saturated with $500 AR's and many saw the Colt as overpriced, which it wasn't.

Good luck finding one.
__________________
That's just somebody talkin.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 01-17-2020, 03:20 AM
old tanker old tanker is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fort Knox, Kentucky
Posts: 772
Likes: 2,677
Liked 1,366 Times in 470 Posts
Default

I was never a fan of the A2. The three round burst feature being the final indignity. I preferred the terminal effects of M193 ball from 1:12 twist barrel to those of of M855 out of a 1:7. Don't know about M855A1, except what I've read. But I will agree on the M68 and PEQ. Having used an AN/PVS-2 mounted on an M16A1, I can appreciate how much better things are at night.

While I spent most of my serious doing business time mounted, with a 90mm (or larger) option. I saw the rifle as only needing to cover to 300 meters max, most of the time. Beyond that, unless they somehow discovered my location, I preferred the PTT on the PRC-77 and a battery six of VT fused i55 HE to sufficiently convey my displeasure.

Last edited by old tanker; 01-17-2020 at 03:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #22  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:13 AM
the Ar-15 Junkie the Ar-15 Junkie is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Likes: 5
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
I don't think Colt plans to re-enter the civilian market, at least not anytime soon. Prices on used ones are going up well over the cost of a new one when you could get one. As soon as Colt announced no more being available to dealers they were all gone in a few days. The market is saturated with $500 AR's and many saw the Colt as overpriced, which it wasn't.

Good luck finding one.
Arms Unlimited have 100's of Colts in stock including the ones without furniture for $799.00. As of this morning when I bought one they had 21 left in stock.

I just bought a Colt M4 SOCOM 14.5 pin and welded 2 weeks ago from Clyde Armory, they had 2 huge stacks of them sitting in their showroom floor. $1449.00. On their facebook page.

Luck is NOT needed in finding one.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:16 AM
the Ar-15 Junkie the Ar-15 Junkie is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Likes: 5
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

And unlike Smiths that come with cheap plastic handguards, the Colts cheap plastic handguards comes with DUAL Heatshields.

Smiths are cheap fun guns, but people need to be honest with themselves on what they are actually getting with them.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 01-17-2020, 03:36 PM
McChemist McChemist is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 10
Likes: 13
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
I don't think Colt plans to re-enter the civilian market, at least not anytime soon. Prices on used ones are going up well over the cost of a new one when you could get one. As soon as Colt announced no more being available to dealers they were all gone in a few days. The market is saturated with $500 AR's and many saw the Colt as overpriced, which it wasn't.

Good luck finding one.
If Colt abandons the civilian market, then I don't know what market they plan to serve. The new Army carbine/rifle and SAW weapons will fire a 6.8 mm round. As of May 2019, the bidders were General Dynamics, FN, PCP Tactical, and Sig Sauer. Unless Colt is subcontracted or somehow involved, the military market seems like a non-starter. The Army wants to field this in 2020 or 2021.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 01-17-2020, 06:49 PM
AManWearingAHat's Avatar
AManWearingAHat AManWearingAHat is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 259
Likes: 52
Liked 349 Times in 136 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Univibe View Post
How do you know?
Ive handled, shot, owned, competed with and along side several examples of AR's made by most brands you can think of. Colt included. Friends of mine also shot competitively in the industry circuit and relayed their experience to me.

Additionally have a look around at what the top competitors in any shooting game that uses an AR use you'll be hard pressed to find a Colt (except perhaps the guys who are paid to shoot them), you'll spit in the wind and hit a DD or a Noveske. You're welcome to spend your money on whatever roll mark suits your fancy, but I maintain there is absolutely nothing special or unique about Colts anymore.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:59 PM
the Ar-15 Junkie the Ar-15 Junkie is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Likes: 5
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AManWearingAHat View Post
Ive handled, shot, owned, competed with and along side several examples of AR's made by most brands you can think of. Colt included. Friends of mine also shot competitively in the industry circuit and relayed their experience to me.

Additionally have a look around at what the top competitors in any shooting game that uses an AR use you'll be hard pressed to find a Colt (except perhaps the guys who are paid to shoot them), you'll spit in the wind and hit a DD or a Noveske. You're welcome to spend your money on whatever roll mark suits your fancy, but I maintain there is absolutely nothing special or unique about Colts anymore.
How do you know?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #27  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:23 PM
AManWearingAHat's Avatar
AManWearingAHat AManWearingAHat is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 259
Likes: 52
Liked 349 Times in 136 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Ar-15 Junkie View Post
How do you know?
Shooting, building, disassembling, maintaining, and competing with AR-15's across several brands for most of my adult life? What's not clear here?

They're decently built rifles that work well. Nothing more nothing less. Several other companies do the exact same thing, some at a better price point. My whole point is several other companies have also exceeded Colt's variety of offerings, build quality, out of the box accuracy, and reliability over a decade ago. The only thing special about the Pony rifles is the roll mark if that's your particular fetish.

Last edited by AManWearingAHat; 01-17-2020 at 08:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 01-18-2020, 11:23 AM
the Ar-15 Junkie the Ar-15 Junkie is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Likes: 5
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AManWearingAHat View Post
Shooting, building, disassembling, maintaining, and competing with AR-15's across several brands for most of my adult life? What's not clear here?

They're decently built rifles that work well. Nothing more nothing less. Several other companies do the exact same thing, some at a better price point. My whole point is several other companies have also exceeded Colt's variety of offerings, build quality, out of the box accuracy, and reliability over a decade ago. The only thing special about the Pony rifles is the roll mark if that's your particular fetish.
How do you know?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:32 PM
rtquig's Avatar
rtquig rtquig is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Forked River, NJ
Posts: 436
Likes: 25
Liked 160 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Ar-15 Junkie View Post
How do you know?

Come on, your response is sounding a little childish after the second time. It is his opinion. You don't have to agree or disagree.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #30  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:23 AM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,259
Likes: 2,661
Liked 15,762 Times in 5,967 Posts
Default

Only very high end users will be able to tell the difference.

The value is in the design. Stoner made a brilliant design. Yes, there are differences in quality or longevity, but you won't ever notice.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #31  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:32 AM
Imissedagain's Avatar
Imissedagain Imissedagain is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 752
Likes: 180
Liked 577 Times in 317 Posts
Default

The Colts are like the BT99s of Trap.
They get the job done, break 25, and keep on running.
Resale value, if maintained properly, is good.... not that I would sell any of them.
A Series 70 MKIV Gold Cup is the same, a starter with a decent trigger.

My '79 Sporter felt like a conductor's baton.
When I bought the 6920s, if I closed my eyes, it felt like picking up an FN-FAL....front end Heavy........ wishful thinking.

My boy, his Marine Gunnery Sergeant/Machinist buddy and his USAF MP buddy since kindergarten, the 3 Star General's boy, rarely missed at 300yds, at Homestead with stock irons, although the rear is plastic.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #32  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:00 AM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,490
Likes: 4
Liked 2,280 Times in 1,198 Posts
Default

I'm not much of an AR zealot like many folks here seem to be. I've had experience only with Colt ARs, and only three of them. No complaints. I seldom do any modifying to any gun - no trigger or handguard replacements, no optical sights that have oddball reticles or require batteries. If a firearm doesn't perform as expected straight out-of-the-box, I generally don't keep it long.

I can't see a need to overheat or abuse a barrel by seeing how fast a magazine can be emptied. To me, ten rounds through an AR means it needs a cooldown. I've tried many cheap, bulk ammos - all went bang but none were accurate. The only factory ammo I've found that shot with good accuracy was a Federal Match round. Lots of experimentation with powder, bullets and primers has resulted in accurate handloads.

After reading the comments on this thread, it seems it might be worth the trouble and expense to buy one or two AR copies, maybe an S&W and/or Ruger and do a lot of shooting. I have no real idea what is available from either manufacturer or others. I don't know whether buying the cheapest model, the most expensive, or somewhere in between (if such choices are available) would be the best route to follow, but it might serve as the basis for an interesting informal project.

Last edited by rockquarry; 01-19-2020 at 01:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #33  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:18 PM
feduncan's Avatar
feduncan feduncan is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: SE North Carolina
Posts: 12
Likes: 6
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Default

I mostly want a good "M4 TYPE" Carbine to keep at home for self defence. It probally won't get shot a whole lot, as there isn't many compatitions going where I live. I'm disabled. My left arm got messed up bad in a motorcycle wreck several years ago and I have limited use of it from the elbow up to the shoulder. That's why I need a colapsable stock on the weapon in order to be able to hold it up to my right shoulder as I'm right handed. I also intend to install a Laser so I would be able to shoot from the hip also. The maximum distance I would use it would probally be around 50 yards. The way politics is going now I wanted to get something this year before the elections come up. So that's the main resons I want it for. What ever I buy I don't intend on selling it unless I end up with a malfunctioning firearm.
Thanks every body for yor advice and comments,
FE Duncan
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #34  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:58 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is online now
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 4,410
Likes: 984
Liked 3,499 Times in 1,884 Posts
Default

Guess I'll dip my toes into this...

Value is perceived by the consumer. What I consider a great value, others may not. In my line of work, value is derived from two parts, utility and warranty. Utility means it is fit for purpose, or "what it does". Warranty means it is fit for use, or "how it is done". If you have both of those, your product or service is providing "value".

So if I apply this to the S&W, the utility is that the firearm is an AR-15 style, semi automatic sporting rifle for the civilian market (non-military) that is accurate, reliable, and safe to shoot. We could also say that the Colt shares the same utility. Both rifles are fit for this purpose.

Warranty is where it differs. S&W uses 4140 steel for the barrel, where Colt uses 4150. If I look at the utility, or purpose, the 4140 steel meets the purpose. The 4150 also meets the purpose, but it was actually used to meet a different standard... three round burst or auto fire. The consumer would have to decide if they see value there or not. Personally, I don't.

Chrome lining is the same type of thing... When fired semi auto, chrome lining doesn't offer more protection than a nitride barrel or extend barrel life. If you fire a lot of full auto cycles, chrome has an advantage. Again, not worth a premium to me.

We can go back and forth on all the specs... full auto carrier vs. semi carrier, twist rate, M203 cut out, etc.

S&W did leave heat shields out on the Sport to reduce costs. Don't have the concrete facts to prove it, but based on pictures on this site, most owners change out hand guards anyway.

Long story short, the Sport meets my needs when it comes to an AR-15 patterned rifle. For the difference in cost, I can buy an optic, or ammo and range time.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #35  
Old 01-19-2020, 02:04 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is online now
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 4,410
Likes: 984
Liked 3,499 Times in 1,884 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feduncan View Post
I mostly want a good "M4 TYPE" Carbine to keep at home for self defence. It probally won't get shot a whole lot, as there isn't many compatitions going where I live. I'm disabled. My left arm got messed up bad in a motorcycle wreck several years ago and I have limited use of it from the elbow up to the shoulder. That's why I need a colapsable stock on the weapon in order to be able to hold it up to my right shoulder as I'm right handed. I also intend to install a Laser so I would be able to shoot from the hip also. The maximum distance I would use it would probally be around 50 yards. The way politics is going now I wanted to get something this year before the elections come up. So that's the main resons I want it for. What ever I buy I don't intend on selling it unless I end up with a malfunctioning firearm.
Thanks every body for yor advice and comments,
FE Duncan
Sounds like a M&P 15 Sport would meet your needs. Handle one before you purchase to make sure it is not too front heavy though. I'm not sure how much your disability affects your use of a rifle, but you may want to look at an AR pistol with arm brace as well...
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:12 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,145
Likes: 223
Liked 2,244 Times in 1,218 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
Guess I'll dip my toes into this...

The consumer would have to decide if they see value there or not. Personally, I don't.

Chrome lining is the same type of thing... When fired semi auto, chrome lining doesn't offer more protection than a nitride barrel or extend barrel life. If you fire a lot of full auto cycles, chrome has an advantage. Again, not worth a premium to me.
The US Army Match Training Unit (competition shooters) would disagree with you. They found no significant difference in accuracy between the two types, but a marked difference is barrel life in what's termed across the course (semi-auto) match shooting. This was particularly true in the match nick named the "rattle battle": a 600 yard rapid fire match.

Our tax dollars at work.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #37  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:27 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is online now
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 4,410
Likes: 984
Liked 3,499 Times in 1,884 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
The US Army Match Training Unit (competition shooters) would disagree with you. They found no significant difference in accuracy between the two types, but a marked difference is barrel life in what's termed across the course (semi-auto) match shooting. This was particularly true in the match nick named the "rattle battle": a 600 yard rapid fire match.

Our tax dollars at work.
Interesting... my info came from a barrel manufacturer.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #38  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:13 AM
the Ar-15 Junkie the Ar-15 Junkie is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Likes: 5
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Only very high end users will be able to tell the difference.

The value is in the design. Stoner made a brilliant design. Yes, there are differences in quality or longevity, but you won't ever notice.
Your reply is exactly like the ones on the various crotch rocket forums where a squid goes out and buys the latest 200HP liter bike, then squid claims no one can use all its power, because he cant use all its power. Make sense? Because you cant notice doesn't mean the rest of us cant.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:14 AM
the Ar-15 Junkie the Ar-15 Junkie is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Likes: 5
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtquig View Post
Come on, your response is sounding a little childish after the second time. It is his opinion. You don't have to agree or disagree.
Correct, his opinion and why exactly do I not have any right on a discussion forum to agree or disagree with said opinion?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:14 PM
sgtsandman's Avatar
sgtsandman sgtsandman is online now
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 331
Liked 603 Times in 413 Posts
Default

This discussion is going the way I expected. Just like the "which pistol round is the best" debate. No consensus will ever be met and it just breaks down into bickering back and forth.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #41  
Old 01-20-2020, 04:56 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,456
Likes: 3,230
Liked 5,060 Times in 2,274 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtsandman View Post
This discussion is going the way I expected. Just like the "which pistol round is the best" debate. No consensus will ever be met and it just breaks down into bickering back and forth.
Might want to have a second look; vis-a-vis OP's original question, answers have been polite and largely in agreement that overall Colt takes the nod. Wasn't until it went off-topic and became Colt vs more expensive brands that the bickering started.

And since I'm here: M&P Sport is an excellent economical choice that serves most users quite well; Colt's my pick, though, for overall superior parts and build quality.
__________________
Pickpocket
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #42  
Old 01-20-2020, 05:04 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,456
Likes: 3,230
Liked 5,060 Times in 2,274 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McChemist View Post
If Colt abandons the civilian market, then I don't know what market they plan to serve.
Colt isn't abandoning the civilian market, but as far as what other markets they have (for the M4), they're currently fulfilling multiple huge contracts for overseas militaries.

Quote:
The new Army carbine/rifle and SAW weapons will fire a 6.8 mm round. As of May 2019, the bidders were General Dynamics, FN, PCP Tactical, and Sig Sauer. Unless Colt is subcontracted or somehow involved, the military market seems like a non-starter. The Army wants to field this in 2020 or 2021.
Has the 6.8 actually, officially been chosen? I can't find anything indicating that this is past the solicitation phase, and we all know how often much sturm und drang surrounds solicitations and trials only for the whole thing to be canceled -- replacement for the Bradley fighting vehicle being just the most recent example.
__________________
Pickpocket
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #43  
Old 01-20-2020, 05:07 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,490
Likes: 4
Liked 2,280 Times in 1,198 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Might want to have a second look; vis-a-vis OP's original question, answers have been polite and largely in agreement that overall Colt takes the nod. Wasn't until it went off-topic and became Colt vs more expensive brands that the bickering started.

And since I'm here: M&P Sport is an excellent economical choice that serves most users quite well; Colt's my pick, though, for overall superior parts and build quality.
I must agree. Most of the respondents in this thread have have been pretty respectful. Usually, such a thread arouses participation by those perpetually in search of an argument, even if they have little interest in facts.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #44  
Old 01-20-2020, 07:18 PM
S. Kelly S. Kelly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 474
Likes: 1
Liked 83 Times in 56 Posts
Default

I was at a police shooting event where S&W was a major sponsor. They had a S&W M4, a real M4, with 1/7 marked 14.5 inch barrel, 3 round burst, etc. on display. I believe it was made up to show whomever (.GOV?) that in time of crisis, they could step in and make a military grade M4. After a few people began asking about it, it got put away.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #45  
Old 01-20-2020, 08:30 PM
pasound's Avatar
pasound pasound is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 467
Likes: 229
Liked 571 Times in 255 Posts
Default

Other than my personal M&P Sport, and those of a couple of friends, don't know about other brands. We all find ours are reliable and accurate. I always drooled over the Colt and Daniel Defense, and others, but the Smith was in my budget. What I do know are friends in the local city PD and the state PD. They all had Colts in the past. They all have M&P's now - the difference? When the Colts needed factory parts or work, it cost too much. S&W never asked, just fixed them. And interestingly, they said the Smiths needed much less maintenance overall. Just my observation.
__________________
Heavily armed old man.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #46  
Old 01-20-2020, 08:41 PM
rtquig's Avatar
rtquig rtquig is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Forked River, NJ
Posts: 436
Likes: 25
Liked 160 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Ar-15 Junkie View Post
Correct, his opinion and why exactly do I not have any right on a discussion forum to agree or disagree with said opinion?

On this forum you are free to agree or disagree. It is the tone that you used twice to rebuff a response. "How do you know" that to me seems a little Pushy for a new member.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #47  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:24 AM
jkasch's Avatar
jkasch jkasch is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 128
Likes: 46
Liked 94 Times in 34 Posts
Default

Unless Im missing something, the OP asked how the S&W M&P 15 compares to the Colt M4. Nearly all the discussion and bickering has been comparing a Colt to a Sport. Smith certainly makes ARs with 4150 barrels and/or chrome lined barrels. At least they did the last time I checked.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #48  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:58 AM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,259
Likes: 2,661
Liked 15,762 Times in 5,967 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I'm not much of an AR zealot...

I can't see a need to overheat or abuse a barrel by seeing how fast a magazine can be emptied. To me, ten rounds through an AR means it needs a cooldown.
These two statements fully support each other. The AR style gun can handle 10 round and then 10 more and then 10 more without a cooling down period in between. That's what they're designed to do. You aren't hurting your gun by shooting 30 rounds in 30 seconds.

I understand why you want to cool down the barrel, but you're not extending the life any significant amount by doing so.

Also, the gun is designed as a battle rifle. The accuracy most see out of the box, with cheap ammo, is 2MOA or better. I get 1.5MOA or better with every AR I've ever used. If you're expecting better than that from an off the shelf AR, your expectations are too high.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #49  
Old 01-21-2020, 07:31 PM
pasound's Avatar
pasound pasound is offline
Member
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 467
Likes: 229
Liked 571 Times in 255 Posts
Default

My M&P 15 OA is called a "Sport" in some literature. Also advertised as such at the Cabelas where I bought it 3 years ago. It's mechanically identical to the M&P 15's used by my local and state police. There is a WVSP M&P 15 Commemorative in my museum collection now, and after having stripped and cleaned it, I know it's the same rifle. All I know otherwise is mine is very accurate with Federal Eagle 55-grain. And I know what local city and state armorers have said to me.
__________________
Heavily armed old man.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-25-2020, 09:04 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,259
Likes: 2,661
Liked 15,762 Times in 5,967 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Ar-15 Junkie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Only very high end users will be able to tell the difference.

The value is in the design. Stoner made a brilliant design. Yes, there are differences in quality or longevity, but you won't ever notice.
Your reply is exactly like the ones on the various crotch rocket forums where a squid goes out and buys the latest 200HP liter bike, then squid claims no one can use all its power, because he cant use all its power. Make sense? Because you cant notice doesn't mean the rest of us cant.
I understand what you're saying, but that's why I started with the first sentence qualifying what I was getting at. You're right, there are some people out there that will notice and are capable of using the differences. Even so, the vast majority of those who buy ARs won't notice any difference.

The motorcycle reference is apt. The average street rider will never be in a situation where they could utilize the full abilities of a modern sport bike. That doesn't mean that no one can, just that most don't/can't.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Colt AR 15 A2 Government Carbine CLASSIC12 Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 3 10-06-2019 10:13 AM
FS Colt ar-15 gov. Carbine .223 rockyars613 GUNS - For Sale or Trade 0 08-26-2016 08:54 PM
Colt Carbine M4 5.56 Air Blair Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 12 08-19-2015 02:08 AM
*SPF* NIB Colt LE6920 M4 Carbine Firehouse GUNS - For Sale or Trade 7 09-13-2012 12:00 AM
M&P 15-22 or Colt M4 Carbine .22 desakto Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 5 08-13-2010 10:41 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:41 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2020
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)