I have several HGs for HD/SP and finally picked up a Sport II, all because I have ~3,500 extra bullets, powder, and primers extra. My Remington .222 needs were over-estimated and over-ordered. Got bullets, got powder, got primers... so I figured picking up a Sport II.

Bottom line is that my immediate "defend my own property" is at best ~50yd in any direction. And NO, I do not plan on pursuing beyond my property in case of HD/SD. That being said, is it safe to say that I do NOT need to even think about adding a scope to my new Sport II? BTW, if I need 200yd then I have my Remington .722 with a 10x Weaver(El Paso,TX) that is nearly as old as I am... . Plus have a 9mm Sub-2k...

Not wanting to over-think this but with all of this CoronaVirus Lock-down going on, I am planning on/for any possible breach in normal societal behavior. Any thoughts on this subject? Not planning on having a tricked out "super AR" or anything...

Folks are friendly here in Texas for now, yet I suspect a less than current acknowledgement of the true problem coming at us.

A red dot could do you some good, quicker target acquisition and much simpler sight picture.

If you're never going to shoot your AR more than 50 yards then I agree, long as your eyes stay good you probably don't need magnified optics. That said, tricked out high end AR's with good optics are a lot of fun!

Maybe a 1x4 scope with an illuminated center reticle. Something you could use close and fast with both eyes open at 1x like a red dot sight, and the ability to reach out with some precision at 4x, taking advantage of the rifles abilities. Could probably co-witness with pop up iron sights at 1x.

Larry

Point and shoot, not using sights, at 50yds is good practice for long guns.
Think Chuck Conners!

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

...my M-14 has iron sights...with a 6.5 x 20 scope mounted above them...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

I agree with you. These guns should work very well straight out-of-the-box.The standard aperture sight is more than adequate if you don't plan on shooting at distance. It's also very simple and requires no batteries. However, I think there are many unaware of how well ARs and copies shoot without an aftermarket adornment of gadgetry.

After one develops proficiency with the basic guns, perhaps that's the best time to make an educated selection of extras.

No scope or red dot needed. Those aperture sights will all you need. Even if you do that 200 yard shot, the aperture sights are up to the task on zombie sized targets.

I agree with you, if you open fire on a BG or several BG’s with an AR UNDER 50 yards you will stop them or they will leave in a hurry.

Unless they're moving. Iron sights quickly reach their limitations on moving targets actively trying to not be shot.

Having had most of my AR experience divided between an A2 Service Rifle and an A4 target rifle, I will make the dangerous presumption that your Sport has an A3/4 upper configuration.

Based on my own experiences, I know that when I bunker down and concentrate on my iron sights for an aimed shot, I tend to develop tunnel vision. If the majority of shots were at threats within 50 yards, with the potential of multiple threats at the same time, the last thing that I would want is the distraction of iron sights. I would strongly suggest installing a red dot sight for engaging threats within 50-75 yards, and save the iron sights for more distant threats. If you want to not sorry about a red dot, you could consider a green laser zeroed for 50 yards in concert with either iron sights or a low power scope.

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Judge control not gun control!

I would love to see that setup. I would like to do that with my M1A1


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I've never found the need to have to concentrate with aperture sights. Properly used you ignore the rear and just place the post on your target, the same as a red dot. I do much prefer a red dot over standard open sights where you actually need to concentrate on sight front and rear sight alignment. I always prefer a traditional scope with magnification for long range hunting or target work, but don't find their needed for the type of shooting the OP is talking about.

Today new shooters are like check outs in big box stores. They can’t make change for a dollar without the computer cash register. New shooters tend to buy all the bling when they buy the gun. Red dots, reflex, scopes and lasers. They couldn’t shoot without them. A m16 would easily take down 300 meter targets with aperture battle sights.
I’m not into ARs but would like to pick up one similar to M16 because of current social ills. Carry handle, battle sights. Hardly any sold like this. I guess Colt had one for $2300 RVn vets are generally not stupid enough to pay that.

Carry handle uppers have gone the way of the dodo bird. The flat top upper makes it easier to add optics if you wish. However, you can still use iron sights as well. If you are not going to use optics, purchase an upper with a fixed front sight base and purchase a removable carry handle. Or purchase one of the many fixed rear sights available.

I put this on one of my rifles from time to time... just like using the battle sights in the carry handle.
Tactical Rear Sight - LMT

I realize what’s available and don’t want them, don’t want removable handle. Not interested in tricked out ARs. Not hard to understand. The less gagits and removable parts the better. In fact really not interested in other than Colt. I’ve had ARs NIB and took dozens on trade. Can only remember firing them to sight in scopes for customers.

Up to 300 yards I'm good with iron sights.

I don't even own a scope.

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Expect the unexpected

It's been repeatedly proven that optical sights are faster and more accurate in target acquisition and shot placement than irons. And that's in daylight. In dim light, the (quality) optic-particularly the dot type sight-has a staggering advantage.

Now, up close & dirty the front sight tower and a good cheek weld is enough, but again, you have to be able to see it. A mounted light can take care of the vision issue at reasonable ranges, but see paragraph one on speed/accuracy.

No, you don't need a BDC reticle, externally adjustable knobs, massive magnification or other cool features.

One evening maybe a decade ago I'd been reducing the groundhog population on leased pastures. As evening dropped into darkness I found myself with pickup mounted trespassers (who'd opened closed gates to enter) while armed with a .223 HB bolt gun with a 6-18 scope. They left without incident or interaction (think they were surprised to find someone there) but I was very aware that I was potentially in deep do do. The rifle was pretty much useless in those circumstances.

My eyes are not what they used to be. I can use iron or peep sights out to 50 yards ok, but nothing beats a scope.

Once I got an ACOG, I was spoiled. I don't see myself ever going back.

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Freedom isn't free.

Not sure anyone would consider an AR with a removable carry handle as "tricked out", but whatever... Guess if aren't willing to adapt, you will have to pay the price for the fixed carry handle receiver. Me, I like options but YMMV.

My go to will probably be an M1 Carbine. I've run it out to 100 yds and I'm not seeing a need for a dot or a scope. I do have a 4X on a Ruger Mini but that's for >100 yds. I guess, not really sure.

I understand the dot, I have one on a pistol. The problem is the batteries keep dying. They usually last awhile but you just never know when one's going to carp out on you.

Learn to shoot your irons.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Well then enjoy paying mark ups for a roll mark from a company well past its heyday in a configuration that, as others have pointed out, is on the endangered species list.

As to your point, the less gadgets and removable parts the better. The US Military, law enforcement, and the industry leaders beg to differ. Options are pretty great.

Buy a better pistol dot. An RMR will go two years on a battery. An RMR with a lower third Co-witness with suppressor sights is about as good as it gets.

I agree; your comments make a lot of sense, but many people that are interested in ARs and AR copies are gadget-oriented. That's fine, but there are probably some of them that have never fired an out-of-the-box gun enough to find out how well they work as is.

They work just fine. I have one I kept in stock configuration just for giggles as a beater rifle. They are just more comfortable and easy to shoot with some upgrades.

With my 70 year old eyes, I'd need a scope if I wanted to keep groups below two feet at 50 yards.

25 yards is about the limit for iron sights unless I'm hunting elephant.

When I went in Army was in basic with M16. Had little respect for it because of bad rep at the time. I had lot of experience with BA 222s and 220s before military. I was surprised of accuracy of M16. We didn’t shoot bullseye, shot pop ups out to 300 meters ( might have been yards ) I think 1st row was 25 meters. They taught us to shoot these by instinct with a rod that fit over sights. I guess optics is personal choice. For me deer hunting where shots are under 100yds and fast and furious the aperture sight is faster for me.

The peep sight has been my favorite sighting system since I started shooting. I've got peep sights on all my lever rifles, and that's what I stuck with for my AR. In a SHTF, scenario, I don't foresee any long shots.

If I need to reach waaay out there, I have a scoped .270 Win.

Depends on your age/eyes...... at 14-22 I spent 8 years shooting on rifle teams with iron sights..........three decades shooting ironed sight handguns...

For the past decade or two,at 45+ I've gone scopes or red dots....... Aimpoint PROs or 1.5-4x20 scopes on ARs........

My CZs in .223/5.56 wear 1-4x 20 Leupolds....... great for Penn's Woods.

Fiber-optics are my new best friend on handguns. Wilson has a Amerigloglow "Hackathorn" front sight on his high end Berettas..... that is really nice....
big orange ring around a tritium nightsight.

For SHTF..... shot placement at speed will be the name of the game.

I’m not into any semi auto rifles so I’m not interested in AR with optics.
I have a #3 Ruger 223 with 10x scope and 722 Rem 222 with 10x if I want to shoot varmit at long range.
When I buy any gun I’m buying models that are top of the line and will hold their value. I also only buy what suits me, I could care less what others like.

Of the 5 ARs I own only one has a scope, the other 4 have red dots and back up irons. The one with the scope is a full size rifle meant for longer range. The rest are shorter ranging from 8.5 to 16 inches those like the OP I consider CQC guns of 50-100 yds. I personally find red dots to be much faster on target acquisition but like any electronics a red dot can fail and that's the reason for back up irons.

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SWHF #595

I've used scoped and unscoped ARs. Both are useful, but even with a scoped gun, I prefer to have an aperture sight and front sight (what they come with is fine) and have them zeroed for 100 yards or thereabouts. As for a scope, a good quality one with a simple and uncluttered crosshair reticle that uses no batteries is a good one for any use I can imagine. I doubt I'd ever shoot an AR beyond 250 yards, so high magnification in a variable or fixed power scope isn't necessary for me, though it be for someone shooting much farther.

So why are you here, in a forum dedicated to semi auto rifles, the AR rifle in particular?

It could be as in post #13 that I am interested in buying AR-15, in original form.

I was looking for a new Colt A4 (20" barrel, fixed stock, carry handle) several years ago and asked a Colt rep why they were so hard to find, being a catalogued item. He said half-jokingly that only old guys want them and Colt makes 50 of the 6920 model for every one A4. Whether or not the "50" was an exaggeration, I don't know, but he did eventually locate an A4. I really like it. I've been shooting it for several years just as it came out of the box. It wasn't anywhere close to $2300, in fact, less than half that.

I wonder what Colt had against taking old guys money? I have herd many Vets say they would like to have old style AR-15. In fact some would probably never shoot them. Colt is not known for smart decisions the last 30yrs. The $2300 model they thought they were going to sell Vietnam vets didn’t do well. It turned out that at least the receivers were farmed out.

It has nothing to do with old guys. It has everything to do with capacity and marketability.

The 6920 is popular so, they're going to make far more money from that than they will from the A4. That doesn't mean the A4 is not obtainable. They just don't make as many. They're not hard to find on the internet.

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Freedom isn't free.

I think the "old guy" share of the market is rapidly waning as well. Younger generations are, generally, less interested in bone stock AR's and wood and steel. Just the way it is. I'd start looking to cash out on those engraved and short run "collector" firearms sooner rather than later. Almost no one I've talked to in my generations gives a wooden nickel about engraved guns. Unless its an original Tiffany and Co Smith and Wesson, most of those engraved guns you see advertised in the rags I see as the "Precious Memories" figurines of the gun world, but at least they are functional firearms in the end I guess.

Interesting posts . You give up around 10% of the energy when using short barrels compared to 20” barrels and AR’s aren’t all that powerful to start with so I prefer rifle length. I can still function with iron but I understand the people who like the dots and scopes.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Agree. Most of the young guys are looking for utility, and are very much function over form. Look at the big sellers... Parkerized and matte finishes with polymer stocks and grips. They want reliability and accuracy, at the lowest price point.

When I go to the range, I rarely see revolvers, and most of the semi autos on the line are Glocks. Move down to the rifle range and I see a lot of ARs, sometimes an AK... very rarely do I see a bolt gun unless it is a week before hunting season opens. When I go shoot skeet, rarely do I see O/U guns anymore. Pumps and low cost semi autos rule with the younger guys.

So yes, that Vietnam era configuration is going to be harder to find as it just isn't what sells anymore.

That's what the AR-10 is for!

Very true; I'd have to look up my figures, but I've chronographed mostly handloads and the velocity decrease in a 16" barrel is considerable when compared to the velocity of the same load in a 20" barrel. And, yes, the .223 /5.56 in comparison with a game hunting cartridge is not very powerful anyway in a standard length barrel. Granted, it was never designed as a game cartridge.

I have 1000 yard capabilities as well as close quarter capabilities. Milsurp battle rifles and hunting rifles that make drt out of whatever you aim at.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Old style A2 rifles are still available. Actually they've become popular again.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...-a2-rifle.html

The A2 uppers and stocks are available if you want to convert. There's lots of them out there.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Close, but has removable carry handle so not an A2.

For the 5.56 in most parts of the country, the scope's main benefit is target ID. If the shooter's up to it, precision for a tight shot (an assailant peeking/aiming around cover) is a plus. I'm one of those whose older eye appreciates a dot, though when I finally get my A1 clone with the full-length sight plane, the front sight should be back in focus.
When all's said and done, though, nothing teaches and reinforces the fundamentals like 'iron' sights, even if only the plastic back-ups. I do like putting a removable carry handle on to really get down with irons, though.

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Registration? NEVER!

No, but this is: LEWIS MACHINE & TOOL AR-15 A2 UPPER RECEIVER STRIPPED BLEMISHED | Brownells

So, yeah, the A2 upper is readily available. Why anyone would want one is beyond me though.

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Freedom isn't free.

Concerning defensive shooting:

I think it shooting a rifle with both eyes open is easier with a red dot.

For a defense/utility AR I prefer the A1 type setup, I have a pretty severe astigmatism so Illuminated Dots look like a tear drop of a blurry mess to me, so instead I use a 1X prismatic illuminationated scope for close range on flattops.

I have more trouble with iron sights now as compared to a few years ago.

There is a YouTube channel called InRAnge TV, and they have some interesting episodes on the AR, called What Would Stoner Do ?

It involves quite a bit of decluttering an AR.

I still use old surplus A1 uppers on my AR15s. I really prefer open sights.

Sorry, but the A2 is virtually identical to an A1, it just has a micrometer adjustable rear sight adjusted by knobs, not a bullet tip like an A1.

The ARs that had an A2-style detachable handle were typically A3s and A4s. My HBAR MATCH TARGET is an A2 and the carry handle is fixed to the upper.

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Judge control not gun control!

A bit of caution if you take their advice as I did, I tried one of those Faxon firearms light profile barrels... they're garbage. I had it fully free floated and it would open up to 6-8 inch groups at 50 yards in under 15 rounds worth of barrel heat. Repeatably. Everything was properly torqued with proper tools, checked everything and retested, same issues. Took a credit card dispute to get Faxon's customer service to respond to me and 3+ weeks of emails to get my refund. Never. Again.