I presently have this 3-9x scope on my Sport II:


I think this is actually a very nice scope for the price. It was $100 when I bought it and out to 100 yds which is what I've been shooting it's more than adequate.

However, yesterday I went over to the longer range to try some shots at 200 and 300 yds and ran into a problem. My eyes were never great and now that I'm 69 years old they aren't getting any better. The problem is that at 200 yds with the scope at the 9x maximum I could barely see where my shots were hitting making it hard to dial in. At 300 yds there's no way I can see the hits.

I think I need more magnification so I shopped around and found this:


With it's 6-24x magnification it should be what I need, and at $300 it's within my means. Since I really like Bushnell's $100 scope, I'm hoping I'd be just as happy with their $300 one.

Do any of you have this scope? I'd like to hear real world experience from someone who owns one. I'm not a hunter, all I want to do with it is punch paper.

I asked this question on another forum and was pretty much told that no scope under 4 figures would do the job, and I don't believe that. I don't have a grand to drop on a scope, that's never going to happen.

Unless I hear some compelling reason why this scope isn't a good buy I'll probably go for it. Then I can put the scope I'm using now on my 15-22 which is presently wearing a $30 scope which as you can imagine isn't exactly great.

There's some other threads on this. Basically, you need a spotting scope, not a higher power rifle scope. Even then, picking up .22 holes at 300 yards is gonna be somewhere between tough and impossible.

It isn't so much the magnification, it's resolution. Resolution costs. What you read on another forum is pretty close. Leupold had a 15-45 X spotting scope for around that $300, but as I noted, you may/will still have issues at 300 yards.

Have you looked at the "dirty bird" type targets that outline the bullet impact with a ring of contrasting color to make spotting impact easier?

There are also some camera systems that will send images of your target to your cell phone/ipad.

A spotting scope is exactly what you need. Shop Ebay and you may find a good used Leupold. There are others that will be of use.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I have a 60x spotting scope and it is still difficult to pick up .22 cal holes even at 100yds unless the light is just right.
When you increase the magnification on your scope you introduce a couple of other problems that you don't have at lower power.

Mirage becomes a big problem with heat off the barrel and atmospheric heat of the day. Using heavy barreled varmint rifles and high end optics out west, we rarely were able to visualize our "targets" when magnification was increased beyond about 16x. Your target will look like you are looking a the bottom of a - swimming pool.

Vibration/heartbeat becomes a major issue as you increase magnification, even from a good rest. With each heartbeat your reticle is going to rise / fall and without a lot of practice, you will find yourself trying to "force" your shot when the crosshairs pass over your target and that is a recipe for poor hits. Also, there is a reason why most successful snipers /shooters can shoot so well, they are young and in excellent physical condition, which falls back to the heartbeat in the scope issue.

Perhaps more magnification isn't what you need, but perhaps a little better glass with adjustable parallax to help with clarity of your view of the target at the longer ranges.

I'm a budget guy. I prefer single power scopes because in the 90's I learned that all the variables with gold rings I had, shifted impact when I changed power. Now I am learning that all the same scopes are not predictable when I attempt to adjust bullet impact. Iv'e had it. I praise the years I shot NM High Power with iron sight for this reason. I had a K-Mart spotting scope with which I could see 30 cal holes at 300 yds. It cost 25$. I like Steel Weaver 6X scopes but I have one with 4" parallax at 100 yds. I sent it to a repair shop in the mid south for NO good result. The shop owner thinks I don't know what I'm talking about, but I have a identical scope works perfectly. With my experience, I'm thinking about shotguns for fun rather than precision rifle.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

I am a few years younger than you and I have both a decent spotting scope and some pretty nice riflescopes. My vision is not great. I like to keep it simple, but thinking of everything, I have just about convinced myself to try a target camera. I can’t tell much about .22 holes past 200 yards, and even then they better not go into a black target or forget it! I have been shooting at a red aiming point, usually a 2-inch square, on a white background. That helps me a lot.

I cannot advise much about inexpensive optics, in general, though I have had decent luck with one or two. (Tasco and Bushnell) I can’t justify S&B and the good stuff Uncle Sam buys. For my purposes, Leupold products in the mid-price range of their line have worked well for me and are about as much as I care to spend. As a practical matter, especially considering mirage in the summertime, about 20x is as much magnification as I can use - sometimes 25x. (If shooting at small targets with an accurate rifle.) With an AR15 type rifle, I’d say anything beyond 10x or so is of limited utility.

All this JMHO, of course.

You will also find that your 24 power scope on a hot day might not allow you to see the holes due to mirage, the reason to be able to crank it down when that happens as at lower powers it is less of a problem.

60X Spotting scope maybe, or do you have a smart phone? How about a used target camera? I have two that I use at 1,000 yards and I get to see every shot including the last one fired (it blinks on that one) right from my shooting bench.

Bob

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Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.

I'm not asking this to contradict anyone but because I honestly don't know the answer. Why would $xx spent on a spotting scope buy a better tool than the same amount spent on a rifle scope? Is it because some of the money spent on the rifle scope goes into making it resistant to recoil?

And why wouldn't some of the issues that crop up with higher magnification on a rifle scope not be the same on a spotting scope?

As for the targets I'm using the splatterburst ones like what you describe and the yellow outline around the hole on a black background is probably as visible as you can get. The halo is between 3/8" and 1/2" in diameter so tough to see at 300 yds even with such good contrast.

The idea of a target camera is something I'd never even heard of but that sounds promising. I know nothing of that so some research will be in order. I'll need to find out what kind of price range I'm looking at and exactly how the device communicates with my phone as I'm not really up to speed with phone tech.

Along similar lines to my questions above, if a used higher end spotting scope would be better than a new lower end one, would the same hold true with a rifle scope?

I'm not dead set against the idea of a spotting scope but think I'd prefer my optic on the rifle.

Thanks for your thoughts. If I didn't want your opinion I wouldn't have asked for it.

I usually shoot my pistols at white paper plates that I put a red dot in the center because they are much cheaper than the splatterburst targets and at short range they are easy enough to see.

I've always used the splatterburst targets for rifle shooting because I thought that at ranges 100 yds or more they'd be easier to see, but maybe I'm wrong about that as I've never actually tried the plates at those ranges. I'll do that next time out, so thanks for mentioning that.

Could you elaborate on why you think more than 10x is of limited use with an AR? I shoot mine off a bipod with a pillow under my trigger elbow and the rifle feels pretty stable. If I could see my hits at the 300 yd mark I think I could dial in fairly well. With my present 9x scope I had 5 out of 30 shots hit a 12" diameter target at 300 yds. While 5/30 isn't a very good percentage it was better than I expected since I couldn't really adjust elevation and windage from what I was using at 200 yds since I didn't know where I was hitting till I walked up.

I definitely want to look into this target camera thing. Anybody want to offer suggestions or links?

I have an Android phone. It's an older Samsung Galaxy S4 so I don't know if it's up to snuff with more modern equipment. I wonder if it would have the range to work with a target camera.

I don't have any idea of what technology is involved with sending video from a camera to my phone in real time, but I'll bet my son does. I'll have to get his input.

If something like that could be made to work and not be too expensive it sounds like the best solution to my problem.

I'm glad I started this thread as I've already found some avenues to explore that I hadn't thought of at all.

It's darn tough to see 22 cal holes at 300 yds even with the best glass. Magnification increases don't help if you don't have good glass. Even then, mirage will get you. I think the key is to make your hits more visible. Buy some Shoot-n-see targets so the impact area "blooms." They also provide more contrast. If you're shooting black bullseye targets, your hits can get lost in the bullseye. Try putting some fluorescent orange target stickers on white paper or the backside of a standard buff target. Another thought is putting a black or white backer behind you target. Depending on the lighting or target color, the backer can increase visibility.

In a nutshell, more magnification isn't the panacea a lot of people think it is. Making your hits more visible is the key. For example, there's a reason that highpower matches put people in the butts to spot targets. You can't see .308 holes with a scope at 500 or 600 yds. So they put a large marker stuck in the hole. We've gone beyond that and use electronic targets. You see your hits on a tablet next to you at the firing line. It's luxurious, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. It may be too expensive. It transmits to an access point near the firing line. The access point connects to your phone or tablet via wifi.

ShotMarker

People have been skirting the question by saying, "It's hard to see .22 holes at 300 yards." The truth is, you're NOT going to see .22 holes at 300 yards. Sorry, but that's just life.

You can buy a 60x scope if you want, but it won't really improve your situation. If you want to see hits beyond 200 yards, get a WiFi camera.

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Freedom isn't free.

The gentlemen above are giving you good advice. I have a Celestron Ultima 80 20-60x. Sometimes depending on heat, sun, Target, I see bullet holes. Not all the time. As was said, if you want to see bulletholes at 300, invest in a video system. Or I”d go 80X with a 100mm lens

I agree, find something that might actually let you see .22 caliber holes at 300 yards (no suggestions). I don't mess with variables anymore either. Not that all of them didn't work, most did. For me, however, I found I just mainly used one setting anyway.
I pick a scope to match the intended use of the rifle. Most people around my neck of the woods don't shoot at that range unless it's for curiosity, or they have $$$ and are paying for a guided hunt, which isn't here. Simplicity is usually better for the most part, IMHO. Suppose I'm just getting to be an old fart...

The mirage effect caused by atmospheric heat cannot be overstated. When I got my first high power optic (binoculars 25x)I was disappointed that I just couldn't seem to get them to focus. I called the company and they sent me a replacement pair (after returning the originals). When I tried to focus them I had the same issue and blamed the quality of the glass. One morning very early I tried looking at some eagles and was astonished to see how clearly they focused (glasses not the eagles). That's when I realized that heat was the problem not the glasses.

I may have misunderstood the OP but i thought he is asking about a better scope for his Sport 2. That he only mentioned he would then put his current scope on his 22.
So the long range targets are for the Sport 2.

I dont have one (yet) so only following the thread as I find scope info interesting.

I can’t disagree about getting a target camera probably being the best approach. I don’t have one, but if it works it sure sounds handy. I can tell you I have, from time to time, been able to see .22 caliber holes at 300-yards when conditions were perfect. It doesn’t happen often. And when it does happen, conditions usually don’t last long. I’ve had my present spotting scope three years, I think, and I can recall it happening twice. Once was recently, a week or two ago. About fifteen minutes later it was a struggle to make out a .30 caliber hole. Things changed that quickly.

Are you getting confused with the .22 caliber term? You do realize that the .223Rem round is a 22 caliber, right?

I have a Vortex Razor HD Gen II 3-18x50 scope. The optics on this scope are amazingly clear. Your eyes must be better than mine. With this high end scope set to 18x, I can't reliably make out .22" holes on the best of days at 300 yards and I live in an area where we have a lot of really good days.

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Freedom isn't free.

Yeah my bad. Not yet an AR owner so yes when i saw the 22lr model mentioned, thought that’s what some meant by seeing a 22 hole at such distances.
Thx for the info/correction!

Thanks to all who took the time to respond to my questions. I spent a lot of time yesterday researching both spotting scopes and target cameras. After thinking it over I went ahead and ordered the Bushnell Nitro scope:

Buy Nitro 6-24x50 Riflescope and More | Bushnell

The MSRP is listed as $549-$699 and I bought it for $299. I know MSRP is always inflated but that seemed like a good price to me.

The spotting scopes I looked at all cost as much or more and I think I'd prefer having the scope mounted on the rifle.

The target camera in theory sounds like the best solution, but any that I saw with reviews saying they worked out to 300 yds were in the $600-$800 range which is more than I am willing to spend. Those in the $300-$400 price bracket advertised as having 300 yd range max had reviews that pretty much said 300 yds was iffy.

Maybe someday if I really get into long range shooting I'll spend the money for a good target camera as that does seem like the best approach but for now I'm just playing around and not willing to make that kind of investment.

I can just see the hits at 200 yds with my present 3-9x scope so I'll be real disappointed if I can't see those clearly with the new scope. Whether it will be adequate for 300 yds is something I'll find out soon enough.

I don't really have much to lose by trying this as I've been wanting to put a better scope on my 15-22, and the one I am using now on the AR will go on it and be a big upgrade there. The new scope should certainly be an upgrade for the AR even if it's not really up to the task at 300 yds. Worst case I'll either be limited to the 200 yd range or have to take a hike every time I want to see where I'm hitting the 300 yd target.

I don't want anyone to think I'm just blowing off the good advice they gave in this thread. You gave me a lot to think about and I'm doing what I think is best within the confines of my budget.

The scope is scheduled to arrive Tuesday, so barring bad weather I will let you know how it goes on Wednesday next week.

This whole discussion has been fun. We have great members here.

If you can see the .223 (actually .224) holes with the scope you have now at 200 yards, you'll probably see them a touch better with the new scope. I'll be surprised if you can see them at 300 clearly.

I've watched guys do the scope dance many times. I've done it myself. Having spent hundreds on cheap scopes, it wasn't until I got a decent one that I realized there really is value in buying a quality scope. A $300 scope will probably suit you just fine out to 300 yards which is what most people call long range. However, if you have any interest in precision shooting, you'll need a better scope.

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Freedom isn't free.

If long range shooting is what you want to do, then buy a good fixed power scope. 3-9X to me is a good 100 yards scope, get a Nikon or a Leupold. For longer ranges get a fixed 24X or 36X Leupold. Much clearer and better glass. Used or new will do, as Leupold has a lifetime warranty.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

mmb617,

Sorry for getting into this discussion late.

Back when I shot iron sight 30 cal NM, I used a Kowa TS601 spotting scope with a 25X eye piece. At 200 yards, I could actually see the.30 bullet holes. At 300 yards and beyond, I needed the assistance of either golf "tees" or spotting discs. When I graduated to my AR HBAR, even with the 25X eye piece, I couldn't see my bullet holes at 200 yards with my spotting scope unless it was open blue sky behind the target, like you see at Camp Perry.

Now that I'm disabled and shooting F class, I retired my spotting scope, and using my rifle scope to read mirage and (when not using electronic scoring) view the scoring discs. On my 600 yard AR, I use an old El Paso Weaver T10. My Rem 700 in 308 wears a Weaver T16. My Rem 700 Long Range (1000 yard rifle) wears a Vortex Viper PST. My 224 Valkyrie upper will wear another Weaver T10 when it hits the 600 and 1000 yard lines. While magnification can be your friend, it can also be a greater enemy!

The likelihood of being able to view a quarter inch bullet hole or smaller at 200 yards or more will typically require a spotting scope with an eye piece of at least 60X, if not more.

Good luck in your quest!

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Judge control not gun control!

Well to my surprise the new scope that was scheduled to arrive on Tuesday actually got here yesterday. Today is another of the 95* ones we've been having lately so I went to the range at 8 AM to try out my new scope and beat the worst of the heat.

The good news is that I'm really happy with this scope. I set splatterburst targets out at 100, 200 and 300 yds. I first used the 100 yd distance to sight in the scope which was pretty far off to the left at first but was really clear at 10x, super easy to see the holes. I'm new to scoped rifles and later reading leads me to believe that I'd be better off sighting in at 50 yds so I'll do that next trip out. Today was just getting the feel of things and checking the sight picture at some longer ranges.

Next I tried the 200 yd targets and found I liked 12x best for that distance. Again the shots were very easy to see, much better than with my old scope.

Finally I moved out to the 300 yd ones and quickly found that 24x was blurry. The temp was already over 80* by then which I'm sure didn't help. But when I dialed back to 16x the image was crystal clear and I could make out my holes although they were a little hard to see. Then I noticed that while my target was in the shade the left portion of the target stand was in full sunlight so I made that long walk to change the position of the target into the sun. Wow! Big difference. I could now see the hits quite clearly at 300 yds.

I brought along my 15-22 with it's new scope (the old one from the AR) and was pleased to see how much better it is now at 100 yds which is as far as I expect to shoot it.

I'm very glad I went ahead and got the 6-24x scope. It's capable of doing what I wanted, that being letting me see my hits at 300 yds. I don't see any reason I'll ever need anything for any distance greater than that as it's the longest range at my club. I've got lots of room for improvement in my accuracy at that distance but I'll work at it.

I will be the first to admit that I'm no marksman but I will also say that there's obviously some room for improvement in my equipment other than the optic. For one thing I'm still not happy with my trigger. I did install an aftermarket single stage trigger but I still think it's too heavy and not smooth enough. I'm thinking about maybe trying a two stage, as I've never used one but from what I've read they sound like a solution to what I don't like about my present trigger.

I also don't like the amount of rotational flex in my handguard. I need to do more research on possible cures for that.

I just wanted to give an update to those who gave their input. It was appreciated.

mmb617. I don't know which aftermarket trigger you have now but I am thrilled with the 3lb Timney trigger I installed. It feels a lot more like the triggers on my revolvers. When finger pressure reaches 3lb's the gun fires. After installing the Timney I fired the best rifle group of my life. Probably just luck but still.... great trigger.

With those targets you don't even need a scope to see the hits.

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Freedom isn't free.