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  #1  
Old 09-05-2021, 11:48 PM
giants1 giants1 is offline
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Default Break-in Period?

Denis9834 posted about some problems he had right out of the box with his new M&P 15:

M&P 15 sport 2 jamming and bending rounds

His post suggests that I should do a break-in period. How many rounds should I fire when I pick up my new M&P 15 to confirm that it's reliable?

I just realized that the LGS didn't show the actual rifle to me when I filled out the paperwork for background check and payment. I'm new to AR-15s, but I know enough to confirm the serial number. I'm wondering what sort of inspection I should do in the store before I take it home?
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:33 AM
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Clean and properly lubricate the rifle and it should be good to go. When I was a LEO we were required to put 500 rounds through a newly issued service pistol but we never put that many through a new carbine, they were all good right out of the box.

I know ammo is kinda expensive these days but youíre gonna want to put some rounds through that rifle just to get comfortable with it (especially if youíre gonna use it for personal defense). ARís are a lot of fun to shoot. I like to keep my ARís clean and the bolt wet (oiled).
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:35 AM
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Smart to ask before you pick it up and it might be prudent to ask if anyone at the LGS, very familiar with that model, can walk you thru an inspection... well worth a doubloon or two.
That will be in addition to the replies here.

With our old and new ARs we just cleaned them and ran a 100 or so before cleaning again and put away until next time when we might add a scope or battery operated sight.

We're a Colt family and no Smith ARs just handguns.
Pic circa 1980.

Enjoy that Smith!!!
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Old 09-06-2021, 01:02 AM
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Default Thanks; How Far to Disassemble?

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Originally Posted by S-W4EVER View Post
Clean and properly lubricate the rifle and it should be good to go. When I was a LEO we were required to put 500 rounds through a newly issued service pistol but we never put that many through a new carbine, they were all good right out of the box.

I know ammo is kinda expensive these days but youíre gonna want to put some rounds through that rifle just to get comfortable with it (especially if youíre gonna use it for personal defense). ARís are a lot of fun to shoot. I like to keep my ARís clean and the bolt wet (oiled).
Thanks.

How far do I disassemble the bolt carrier group prior to firing it?
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Old 09-06-2021, 01:06 AM
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Default Thanks; Colt 6920

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Originally Posted by Imissedagain View Post
Smart to ask before you pick it up and it might be prudent to ask if anyone at the LGS, very familiar with that model, can walk you thru an inspection... well worth a doubloon or two.
That will be in addition to the replies here.

With our old and new ARs we just cleaned them and ran a 100 or so before cleaning again and put away until next time when we might add a scope or battery operated sight.

We're a Colt family and no Smith ARs just handguns.
Pic circa 1980.

Enjoy that Smith!!!
Thanks!

What a great family portrait!

What are your thoughts about the Colt CR(?) 6920 for home defense? Do you think the carbine-length gas system puts it at a disadvantage compared to mid-lengths?
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Old 09-06-2021, 01:20 AM
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Thanks.

How far do I disassemble the bolt carrier group prior to firing it?
Theyíre really not that hard to disassemble, youíve got to do it anyway to clean it. There are probably vids on youtube (if you donít have any buddies familiar with ARís).

The AR was designed for eighteen year old HS grads that have never handled a firearm before. When I was in BCT, the guys that had trouble with their M16A1ís were the guys that had a tendency to overthink things (College boys).

The good news is Iím not aware of any way to improperly reassemble the weapon.
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Old 09-06-2021, 01:23 AM
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We have Colt LEs and CRs and they'll do anything you will need to do, in that caliber, at home or in the field from 300 yds to.....
too close for comfort.

First learn to field strip and clean as per the manual.
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Old 09-06-2021, 08:30 AM
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I would sincerely recommend a 12 ga. pump for home defense; less chance of hurting yourself or others......

IMHO

J.
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Old 09-06-2021, 08:46 AM
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Plenty of AR disassembly and cleaning videos on You Tube. I recommend Gunblue490 ,sooch00 and MrGunsngear
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Old 09-06-2021, 08:51 AM
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Pretend you are buying a "New Car" ...inspect everything , look for defects , damage , blemishes , ...Kick the tires , slam the doors , look inside and out for anything that sends up a red flag .
Right Now is the time to look for anything not acceptable and bring it the dealers attention ... you wouldn't buy a new car with a scratched paint job and dented fender would you ?
Don't accept anything you don't like ...
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Old 09-06-2021, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giants1 View Post
Thanks!

What a great family portrait!

What are your thoughts about the Colt CR(?) 6920 for home defense? Do you think the carbine-length gas system puts it at a disadvantage compared to mid-lengths?
There are pros and cons:

Con;

1) .223/5.56mm NATO is abusively loud when fired indoors. And thatís in a 20Ē barrel. Fire a .223 in an enclosed space from a 16Ē barrel and you can expect hearing damage.

In that regard a 9mm carbine is a better choice, from a noise perspective. Sound levels are down around 117 dB in my 16Ē AR-15.

2) A shotgun is generally faster, easier and more accurate for most shooters to employ in a close quarters home defense situation than an AR-15. Thereís also a great deal of psychological impact when an intruder hears a round being chambered in a pump shotgun.

Pro;

1) Longer barrels are better in terms of tumbling and fragmentation range but anything over 10Ē should allow a 55 gr FMJ to start to tumble and fragment in dry wall, meaning it is less likely to penetrate beyond the next room or exit the house.

With a pistol round, most 9mm, .40 and .45 rounds will exit the average residential structure.

Either way, you still need to be aware of what is behind the assailant and choose your angles for fire carefully. If you live with family members then they need to have and understand a plan for where they will take cover if shooting starts - as low and protected as practical - to keep them out of the potential line of fire and to prevent them from being mistaken for an intruder. (Yes, you need to positively ID your target, but the more layers you have to prevent an accidental blue on blue shooting the better.)

óó

The mid length versus carbine length debate can be endless, but itís not nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be.

If you have a quality 16Ē carbine and you are using quality ammo, youĒll never notice the difference and a carbine length gas system will be just as reliable as a mid length.

The problems start with the carbine length gas system when you start using a low end carbine with cheap steel cased ammo. Gas port pressure in the carbine length system is higher, around 25,000 psi compared to around 21,000 psi in a mid length and 16,000 psi in a full length gas system. That means the gas port in the carbine length system is a lot smaller, so you have a short high pressure impulse of gas compared to a longer push of lower pressure gas. That makes the carbine length system slightly more sensitive to variation in ammo and powder type. But again, stick with a quality AR-15 and decent ammo and youíll have zero issues.
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Old 09-06-2021, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-W4EVER View Post
Clean and properly lubricate the rifle and it should be good to go. When I was a LEO we were required to put 500 rounds through a newly issued service pistol but we never put that many through a new carbine, they were all good right out of the box.

I know ammo is kinda expensive these days but youíre gonna want to put some rounds through that rifle just to get comfortable with it (especially if youíre gonna use it for personal defense). ARís are a lot of fun to shoot. I like to keep my ARís clean and the bolt wet (oiled).
Good advice to recommend a fair number of rounds before putting it to use, just on general principal.

óó

The reasons behind policies are important.

If a department allows officers a choice of pistols, or allows officers to carry something else off duty, then you can have a situation where a required 500 round break in period is important to meet the break in needs of some models that donít apply to others. And of course if the department selected duty pistol needs 500 rounds to reach peak reliability then, thatís what it gets.

Thereís also an unrelated argument that 500 rounds fired by the shooter does a fair not to ensure the officer is competent with it and hopefully confident in it. Since duty pistols are far more likely to be used than a duty rifle, the cost benefit analysis favors putting 500 rounds through a pistol, and that might not be the case for a duty rifle.

Finally, it depends on the duty rifle. If you are issuing proven rifles or carbines that are known to run right out of the box with proven issued ammunition, then firing 100 rounds to verify that rifle or carbine runs, and familiarizing the officer shooting it might be plenty.

The point here is that none of those arguments might be valid with someone choosing an AR-15 given the wide range of quality in AR-15s and the wide range in quality and characteristics in ammo.

I recommend shooters put a minimum of 200 rounds of ammo through any semi-auto weapon, with 100% reliability using all the magazines they plan to use, before considering it fit for self defense use.

In other words, if you have a failure to feed or eject on round 30 you are now looking at a minimum 230 rounds to reach the 200 consecutive round threshold. If you find a pattern of failures with a particular magazine, it gets marked, gets eliminated from the test phase, and is subsequently not used for anything other than range practice use.

Last edited by BB57; 09-06-2021 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 09-06-2021, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-W4EVER View Post

I know ammo is kinda expensive these days but youíre gonna want to put some rounds through that rifle just to get comfortable with it (especially if youíre gonna use it for personal defense). ARís are a lot of fun to shoot. I like to keep my ARís clean and the bolt wet (oiled).
The above comment is spot on. An AR-15 does like to be run wet, regardless of what you might hear otherwise.

Pre-Gulf War and even pre-Afghanistan and Iraq Iíd hear people claiming the AR-15 needed to be run dry in the sand box to keep it from collecting dust and failing.

That didnít work out so well but it took an unbelievably long time to kill off the ďrun it dryĒ rumors.

A clean AR-15 will run ok dry, but as soon as it gets any dirt or dust in it at all, itíll stop running unless itís well lubricated.

An AR-15 doesnít need to be dripping, but donít worry about over oiling one either. If it has too much oil, itíll just chuck out any excess it doesnít need. Particularly when itís new and the parts in contact with each other are still wearing smooth, more oil is definitely better,
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Old 09-06-2021, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
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The above comment is spot on. An AR-15 does like to be run wet, regardless of what you might hear otherwise.

Pre-Gulf War and even pre-Afghanistan and Iraq Iíd hear people claiming the AR-15 needed to be run dry in the sand box to keep it from collecting dust and failing.

That didnít work out so well but it took an unbelievably long time to kill off the ďrun it dryĒ rumorsÖ
When I served in the Army (early 1970ís) we were taught to run our M16A1ís ďdryĒ but that theory has been debunked since then.
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Old 09-06-2021, 10:49 AM
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For me, I donít have a specific ďbreak in periodĒ based on round counts (ie Ď500í before it is ok), more I base it on when I am content on how the gun operates, feels, etc and that has worked well for me on all my SW MP handguns.
Now for my Sport 2, which is my first AR, I am taking more time with it. To get comfortable with that platform and to be competent in its operation.
So guess I donít run rounds to break one in but rather for my own confidence and education.
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Old 09-06-2021, 11:13 AM
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if a new item needs to be "broke in" --- don't buy it.
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Old 09-06-2021, 11:43 AM
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I'm not sure if we are being trolled here or not, as the OP is all over the place with these questions. If we are not being trolled, the OP appears to have very limited firearms experience.

OP, if you are wanting this rifle for HD, yes, you will need to shoot it to insure that it functions properly and that you understand how to use it. You will need to be able to clear malfunctions... and all of them will have a malfunction at some point. You will need to put a few magazines of your preferred defensive ammo through it too, not just cheap 55 gr FMJ range ammo.

All the technical stuff that you are worried about, such as gas systems... forget about it. At your level it doesn't matter a bit. You need to keep it simple for now. Basic carbine with a red dot and a light at most. I don't even have a light on mine, but we have night lights all throughout our home (and the AR is not my goto HD gun).

I see that you are looking at a 15-22 as a trainer. I would recommend spending that money on ammo and range time, possibly with an instructor over trying to set up a .22lr to mimic your AR. That would serve you better at this stage in my opinion. If you feel you must go with the .22lr solution due to ammo cost, buy a .22lr conversion kit for your AR so that you are still using the same trigger, same sighting system, etc. Less money on hardware, more money for software (training and practice). I read where you think that the conversion kit is "fussy" on ammo... all .22lr can be. Some .22lr feeds better than others in a semi auto. I have both, a CMMG setup and a 15-22... I buy high velocity, bulk pack ammo and it runs fine. I get the occasional dud, but that is typical of .22lr.

If I lived in California, I would not jump through all the hoops to own an AR... I would select firearms that were legal in a normal configuration, such as a pump shotgun or a Mini 14 if you feel like you have to go with a rifle. The Glock you own and a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 would be a simple, less expensive option.
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
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if a new item needs to be "broke in" --- don't buy it.
I guess you never purchase anything mechanical as new? Everything mechanical has a break in period. Parts are going to wear together. Ever buy a new car? Everyone that I have purchased has directions on how to drive it for the first 500 mile break in.

How about shoes? Ever buy new shoes and the get more comfortable the longer you wear them as they start to form to your foot?

Same is true with a firearm. I wouldn't take a new pistol and carry it without cleaning it and firing a few hundred rounds through it to insure proper function. Mass produced firearms are not hand fitted. Those moving parts need a break in period to insure that they wear together. It is not uncommon to see wear marks and peening after a firing a couple boxes of ammo through a new firearm where the moving parts have settled in together.
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Old 09-06-2021, 01:54 PM
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Default Thanks; Type of Ammo?

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Originally Posted by Johnnu2 View Post
I would sincerely recommend a 12 ga. pump for home defense; less chance of hurting yourself or others......

IMHO

J.
Thanks. My house has stucco, and so do the two detached houses on either side. The third side is exposed to a hill, the fourth a bay window as a backstop to my hallway, which is where I'm concerned about any ammunition over-penetrating. What shotgun cartridge type(s) would you recommend, given my house's situation?
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Old 09-06-2021, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks. My house has stucco, and so do the two detached houses on either side. The third side is exposed to a hill, the fourth a bay window as a backstop to my hallway, which is where I'm concerned about any ammunition over-penetrating. What shotgun cartridge type(s) would you recommend, given my house's situation?
Anything that is going to penetrate to hit vitals will go through walls and such as well. The best way to avoid the over penetration is to hit what you are aiming at!

The distances that you have mentioned in other posts, 2 to 7 yards, you could go with either #00 buck, #1 buck, or #4 buck. As the numbers get larger, the pellets get smaller, but there are more in the shell. For example, in 12 gauge, 2 3/4" shells #00 buck is going to have 8 or 9 pellets that are .33" in diameter, #1 has 12 - 16 pellets that are .30", and #4 has 21 - 28 pellets at .24". I have an 12 gauge 870 loaded with #00, and two 20 gauges loaded with #1 buck.

Best recommendation is Federal 2 3/4" #00 buck with FliteConrtol. The FliteControl wad keeps the pellets grouped together longer after they have left the barrel to give you a tight group on your intended target. Unfortunately, they are hard to find right now.

If you are worried about missing and shot going through the walls into a neighbors home, use #1 or #4. Disadvantage to those loads as there are not as many choices in defensive rounds as they are not as popular.
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Old 09-06-2021, 04:17 PM
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Overpenetration has Two contexts , that might or might not overlap on case by case :

Hitting the intended target , and projectiles go all the way thru the Felon in question .

You miss the Felon , and projectile(s) hit something else .


The number One goal is to Not Miss the intended recipient , for multiple reasons . They are a danger to you/ others or you shouldn't be shooting . Missing doesn't cause them to fall down and cease their deadly threats . With reasonably suitable ammunition , a solid hit upon intended recipient also reduces the danger to bystanders from errent projectiles .

55gr FMJ .223/ 5.56 actually breaks up surprisingly well in interior drywall walls , penetrating less than defensive handgun ( or pistol cal carbine ) rounds . ( Still has that muzzle blast going on , but most of life is a series of tradeoffs .)

I touched on this in the other thread about SG ammo :

1Buck is theoretically the best for all around Buckshot , but is outnumbered on dealer shelves by at least 100: 1 by 00Buck .

BUT , if distances will be limited to inside the room , and local Felons don't wear heavy clothing suitable for Montana or Alaska winters , 4Buck will be acceptably effective , rarely exit Felons with solid torso hits , and penetrate comparitively fewer walls than other defense suitable shotgun loads .
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Old 09-06-2021, 04:26 PM
Biggfoot44 Biggfoot44 is offline
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Break In -

( Presuming we don't mean custom built extra tight target 1911 or such ) , most current era firearms intended for potential Duty Use require little to no break in of the Firearm itself . ( Of course , strip down , clean, and suitably lubricate before using .) If something is initially defective , it will *usually* show up imeadately .
.
However , I personally err on the side of caution as to compatibility of particular Ammunition in particular guns .
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Old 09-06-2021, 07:30 PM
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To be honest, ANY kind of 12 ga ammo will work.... even light loads. Hell, you are shooting inside a house, the noise and flash will protect you. If anyone is still around to bother you after the first shot, you are in trouble.... I have always had a 12 ga. to prop up against the bedroom door while we exit thru the bedroom window... we can land on the A/C compressor and not break anything. I send my wife first (just to be sure).

J.
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Old 11-16-2021, 06:47 PM
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To respond to the original post...I just bought my Sport II four days ago. No probs with FTF or FTE. At first I was not happy with the trigger, but after putting 250 rds of green tip 5.56, the trigger was working just like my Sig Patrol 516. When I would first squeeze the trigger it was very smooth coming back, then it would stop and the next squeeze fired off the round. There was no nervous anticipation of not knowing at what point in squeezing the trigger that the gun would fire. One has to love that. I sure did and do! FYI: I took off the plastic foregrip and replaced it with an M-Lok with a flat rail on top, foregrip. I then mounted an EOTech XPS-2 sight. At 50 and 100 yds. I was hitting the bullseye quite consistently.
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Old 11-16-2021, 10:05 PM
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55gr FMJ .223/ 5.56 actually breaks up surprisingly well in interior drywall walls , penetrating less than defensive handgun ( or pistol cal carbine ) rounds . ( Still has that muzzle blast going on , but most of life is a series of tradeoffs .)
I'd like to see the source material for that claim. Also, there are several different specifications for "drywall" that include certified fire barrier material that's thicker than the standard product. There might be a drywall specification that might support that claim, but I'd bet you won't find it most houses. Multiple walls might help somewhat.

A professional acquaintance stated that M193 will pass through a 6 x 6 pine beam without stopping. My personal testing on standard drywall panels on each side of a 2 x 4 frame showed that virtually any .223/5/56 mm projectile passed through apparently intact and with sufficient energy for serious injury/death to result. The only thing I found that reliably stopped in one "wall" was a .177 pellet at about 300 f/s.

The carefully worded penetration stats in LE ammo information are for penetration in simulated tissue.

And, about breakin. I've been through transition training on several weapons systems. While out of the box, the items might have been factory proof and function tested, but that doesn't mean each and every example is good to go with whatever ammunition you may have on hand. There will be machining artifacts that need to wear in. Sights may be off to some degree, extractors may be overly stiff and the triggers will almost certainly function much better after, say, 500 rounds/dryfire cycles.

Added edit: the term "wet" as used above doesn't mean "dunk the BCG in a quart of oil". I will admit no experience with the flour like sand in some areas of the Middle East.

Last edited by WR Moore; 11-17-2021 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 02-14-2022, 01:13 PM
Moe Mentum Moe Mentum is offline
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NO break in period, just shoot it.
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Old 02-14-2022, 11:40 PM
Oldsalt66 Oldsalt66 is offline
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Field strip, clean, and lubricate the rifle (donít bother to remove and lubricate the extractor pin).

Then shoot it.








Last edited by Oldsalt66; 02-14-2022 at 11:43 PM.
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