Smith & Wesson Forum

Advertise With Us Search
Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Rifles and Shotguns > Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles

Notices

Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles Dedicated to the Smith & Wesson M&P-15 Rifles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-07-2021, 04:29 PM
giants1 giants1 is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 267
Likes: 364
Liked 76 Times in 51 Posts
Default Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?

My M&P Sport ii (made in 2020) has a standard 16" barrel. I read that 20" barrels provide higher velocity resulting in better terminal ballistics, especially tumbling and yawing, in home defense scenarios.

My ammo is Winchester M193 and M855, Hornady Super Performance Match BTHP, 75 grain, and Winchester Super X Jacketed Soft Point, SPRX in 55 grain.

I don't anticipate doing room clearings, but rather shooting from cover (though I keep in mind Mike Tyson's quote that everyone has a plan until he gets punched in the face).

What are your thoughts about my upgrading to an upper with a 20" barrel?

Thanks!

Last edited by giants1; 12-07-2021 at 04:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-07-2021, 04:43 PM
mscampbell2734 mscampbell2734 is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 748
Likes: 32
Liked 813 Times in 343 Posts
Default

Make sure you do your research before spending money.

Tumbling of 5.56 rounds is a concept that ONLY applies to 55 grain rounds, fired from barrels with 1:12 or 1:11 twist rate. Heavier M885 and up rounds, fired from barrels with twist rates of 1:9 and higher, will NOT tumble, regardless of the muzzle velocity.

Reducing the barrel from 20 inches to 16 inches DOES reduce the MV, and therefore the range at which tumbling will reliably occur, but we're talking about HUNDREDs of yards. In other words M16 and M16A1s firing M193 ball could reliably cause wounds from tumbling and yawing out to something like 250 yards. Going down to 16 inches decreased the MV and reduced the distance down to something like 200 yards. Going to the XM177 platform reduced the barrel length, MV and therefore tumbling/yawing distance to around 150 yards, give or take.

SO in your case do your home defense scenarios involving a distance over 200 yards? If not then..............

Last edited by mscampbell2734; 12-07-2021 at 04:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 12-07-2021, 04:54 PM
Pisgah Pisgah is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 3,450
Likes: 37
Liked 5,435 Times in 1,762 Posts
Default

At a range of feet nobody will know the difference.
__________________
Pisgah
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 12-07-2021, 05:05 PM
M1903A3's Avatar
M1903A3 M1903A3 is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 16
Likes: 5
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Default

I would think that the maneuverability of the 16” barrel is not worth losing. The M4 is very handy and ideal for indoor home defense use. The extra velocity would only generate better penetration, maybe of course over penetration, which is undesirable in this scenario. I would stick with the 16” for a “Personal Defense Rifle” and then if you WANT a 20” barreled AR in .223 you can build one! I think my M&P15 is ideal for home defense. Also, LOTS of police departments have or allow or issue M4 clones, often M&P-15’s so I wouldn’t rush to condemn 16” barrels. They are good for many scenarios.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 12-07-2021, 05:31 PM
Old_Cop Old_Cop is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Crawford County PA
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 4,394
Liked 6,713 Times in 2,420 Posts
Default

20" is good for NRA High Power. 16" offers better maneuverability and lighter weight.
__________________
Made it, Ma! Top of the world!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 12-07-2021, 06:23 PM
AlHunt AlHunt is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,354
Likes: 5,462
Liked 2,783 Times in 1,263 Posts
Default

At those distances, it'll make no difference at all to the recipient. Those couple extra inches will make it harder to maneuver, I would think. A pistol length would be more practical in that kind of scenario.
__________________
Just Say No - To Social Media
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 12-07-2021, 06:32 PM
waffles waffles is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,790
Likes: 1,088
Liked 4,110 Times in 1,171 Posts
Default

For home defense uses I don't think it'll matter much at all, and I'd rather ditch 5.5" of barrel and get down to a 14.5 with a pinned muzzle device.

That said, the original SP1/Colt 604 20" pencil configuration is an absolute joy to shoot in a way that would surprise many modern AR users. Don't need it for home defense but that definitely made me love some 20" goodness.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 12-07-2021, 07:19 PM
giants1 giants1 is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 267
Likes: 364
Liked 76 Times in 51 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlHunt View Post
At those distances, it'll make no difference at all to the recipient. Those couple extra inches will make it harder to maneuver, I would think. A pistol length would be more practical in that kind of scenario.
Thanks. I'm in Kalifornia, so pistol length and, in fact, anything shorter than 16" is a no-no.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-07-2021, 08:23 PM
double-dipper's Avatar
double-dipper double-dipper is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Kansas
Posts: 720
Likes: 1,919
Liked 1,143 Times in 454 Posts
Default

I'm a fan of 20" barrels.

YES, if you're going to stretch its legs out every once in a while.

If not, then there is no need to but, there are a lot better choices than an AR for home defense.

builds.jpg
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 12-07-2021, 08:40 PM
smoothshooter smoothshooter is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 2,640
Likes: 338
Liked 3,290 Times in 1,361 Posts
Default

Shorter barrels = increases muzzle blast.
For home defense, any high-powered rifle is far from a good choice. I would not use one for that unless nothing else was available.
Get a handgun or short .410 or 20 gauge shotgun.
Handgun, preferably. May be difficult that is out there in the People’s Republic, but goes with the territory you chose.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 12-07-2021, 10:18 PM
giants1 giants1 is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 267
Likes: 364
Liked 76 Times in 51 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by double-dipper View Post
I'm a fan of 20" barrels.

YES, if you're going to stretch its legs out every once in a while.

If not, then there is no need to but, there are a lot better choices than an AR for home defense.

Attachment 546784
Thanks. I recognize the two black rifles. What is the brand and model of the brown rifle on top?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-07-2021, 11:40 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,583
Likes: 4
Liked 8,931 Times in 4,140 Posts
Default

I have two with 16" barrels and one 20". I much prefer the 20". Just has a better balance and feel to me. Weight difference between the two is negligible. Velocity difference is only about 100-125 fps less with the short barrel.

It's sort of like 22" vs. 26" barrels on hunting rifles. I've carried both in brush; virtually no difference as far as getting hung up on limbs and twigs, though the premise of a shorter barrel to avoid brush hangups sounds good on paper even if it actually matters little in the field.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-12-2021, 08:21 PM
bubbatime bubbatime is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 101
Likes: 69
Liked 178 Times in 54 Posts
Default

From a ballistics standpoint , you won’t notice a difference. Complete waste of money getting a 20 inch upper for such a small ballistics advantage.

Some of the folks above said that the AR is not a very good home defense platform and tactically speaking they are wrong. Yes it’s noisy . It’s biggest con. But a self loading magazine fed rifle in an intermediate cartridge is the best home defense gun currently available.

Op, the troops overseas have complained about the performance of 5.56 FMJ military rounds and they are trained to shoot the subject down to the ground. Multiple hits and continue shooting the subject down to the ground. No need to modify your gun… just modify your tactics. You are not stuck using military FMJ rounds. You can use soft points/expanding ammo which increases its effectiveness.

Last edited by bubbatime; 12-13-2021 at 11:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-12-2021, 09:09 PM
quikdraw67's Avatar
quikdraw67 quikdraw67 is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Northeastern PA
Posts: 3,981
Likes: 3,850
Liked 9,014 Times in 2,700 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by giants1 View Post
Thanks. I recognize the two black rifles. What is the brand and model of the brown rifle on top?
It looks like it is some sort of Ruger 10/22, but IDK what caliber, or even it's a Ruger, but it seems to be in that family of rifles.
__________________
BTDT, Got The T-Shirt
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-12-2021, 11:50 PM
sgtsandman's Avatar
sgtsandman sgtsandman is offline
US Veteran
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Posts: 1,400
Likes: 351
Liked 714 Times in 476 Posts
Default

For a general purpose rifle, you are better served with the 16" barrel. Especially for home defense.

Now, if you plan on getting into precision matches and target shooting. Then a 20" barrel might make more sense. Perhaps compromising with an 18" might be the answer. But from personal experience, working with a 16" barrel is generally much better than with a 20".
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 12-13-2021, 08:21 AM
shocker's Avatar
shocker shocker is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 550
Liked 1,427 Times in 666 Posts
Default

I compromised, 18" barrel. 55 gr bullet FMJ, if it doesn't tumble, is designed to fragment so it's still devastating if significant body mass is hit.

Dr Andreas Grabinsky Lecture on Gunshot Wounds - YouTube
__________________
To cannon, all men are equal
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-15-2021, 03:42 AM
Tiribulus's Avatar
Tiribulus Tiribulus is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 243
Likes: 364
Liked 152 Times in 95 Posts
Default

I wouldn't want to stand before a California jury with some gun hating prosecutor showing them my sooper dooper, military grade, warmongering, 6000 rounds per second assault rifle as what he'll call the murder weapon.

Not to mention that it will blow your ears out (and anybody else in the room) inside a house without ear-pro.

Last edited by Tiribulus; 12-15-2021 at 03:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 12-25-2021, 09:02 PM
Pisgah Pisgah is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 3,450
Likes: 37
Liked 5,435 Times in 1,762 Posts
Default

I have to back up and admit that there is one undeniable advantage to a 20" barrel over a 16" barrel: it gets you 4 inches closer to your target.
__________________
Pisgah
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 12-25-2021, 10:15 PM
RCL-09 RCL-09 is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 697
Likes: 292
Liked 1,307 Times in 394 Posts
Default

For home/self defense purposes the 16" is more than enough, and a 20" barrel gives you no advantage.

As it relates to terminal ballistics a light jacketed 40-55 gr. varmint bullet is best and will offer less penetration than handguns, and the velocity out of the 16" will not suffer at all.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-25-2021, 10:26 PM
rogerwnuss's Avatar
rogerwnuss rogerwnuss is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Spfld., IL.
Posts: 544
Likes: 955
Liked 589 Times in 239 Posts
Default

Forget the 20" upper. Neither the increased velocity or sight radius will matter indoors. What will matter is having earplugs
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-25-2021, 10:48 PM
Scharfschuetzer's Avatar
Scharfschuetzer Scharfschuetzer is offline
Member
Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers? Your Opinion on 20" Barrel Uppers?  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Puget Sound Area
Posts: 888
Likes: 39
Liked 2,388 Times in 649 Posts
Default

I carried the 20" M16A1 in VN and the 20" M16A2 later in my military service as well as the 14" barreled M4A1 in various nice places overseas.

I never did see a hoot of difference in portability between the three-barrel lengths, but I definitely preferred the 20" barrel out in the desert and even in the tropics or clearing buildings.

Now, why not compromise and consider an 18" barrel with a Wilde chamber and a 1 in 8" twist barrel? a few years ago, I couldn't get a 20" barrel for a new upper that I was building and went with the 18" tube. It has worked out well for the recreational shooting that I now do. It's a good compromise and my chronographed velocities for 69 grain and 75 grain bullets are not that far behind a 20" tube and they remain stable and accurate to way out yonder.
__________________
Keep your powder dry.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Speaking of the Coen Brothers, Give me your Opinion Of "O Brother Where Art Thou" Gulfecho The Lounge 54 09-03-2016 06:00 PM
Opinion Needed: 19-2 w/ 5" barrel tlmetesh S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 9 03-24-2016 06:49 AM
Factory "Custom" by Talo? Your Opinion lrb1200 Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 12 09-26-2015 05:13 PM
Your Opinion Re: Match Barrel Cleaning doc540 S&W-Smithing 8 07-04-2012 12:09 PM
"Super" Sport builders $79 BCM blem uppers back in stock Splittiebus66 Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles 2 02-24-2012 08:47 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:19 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)