Hand fit is better for me and no trigger pinch which happened with my previous Glocks.

Either gun can be good for those who can use them.

jed

I'm just going to go along with the chorus here...

Reasons I went Sigma over glock:

1) Grip, in hand feeling
2) American Made - being my first hand gun I didnt know much, but I did know S&W was a brand to trust
3) Price + rebate offer!

I impressed myself with my Sigma today. All of us own firearms were I work. We had a mental health day at work today. In our warehouse we setup a 15 yard shoot with a very large 1" boiler plate 45 degree back plate with a 8' x 8' x 24" ditch tray. I shot off rest 1.5" groups with the Sigma. 1" groups with the CZ-52. I out shot the co. owner and his XD .45 with the Sigma. A 6K$ collector Luger was not in the game. But a Hi-Point 9mm shot close to me in 8 round groups against the Sigma. I took the day with the Sigma.

1st place Sigma,,,,, Thank God!!!
2nd place a Colt .44 SAS shooter!!!
3rd place the Hi 9mm.

All the rest cost twice to 3 times the cost of 1st and 3rd. A few of us are going to shoot in the morning on private land. Got to teach the G folks how to shoot. LMAO!!!!!!!

Here are my reasons:
1. Awesome ergonomics.
2. Accurate.
3. Shoots lead bullets, without having to buy an aftermarket barrel.
4. Uses high quality stainless mags.
5. Great customer service, lifetime warranty.
6. Made in USA.

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NRA Life Member

Serious .. you have gotten unjacketed lead bullets through it !! I wouldnt do it because I wouldnt want to clean all the lead but .. it would be pretty impressive if it would.
Alex

Well this being my first post I guess this is as good of place as any. After much deliberation I recently got a sigma 40. My parents college graduation present to me. Although its been so cold and snowy I have had no opportunity to shoot it. I do love the way it feels, and the lifetime warranty is a good bonus too.

Cast bullets are dead cheap and shoot just as good as jacketed. I shoot them through all my pistols and almost exclusively through my 1911's.

Main reason MADE IN USA

We give enough of our money away

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Freedom Is Not Free

Let's face it - almost everyone who came along after John Browning "stole" some design features.

The Glock has, essentially, the operating system of the Austrian 1907 Roth-Steyr, the tilting barrel locking of the Browning High Power, the use of the barrel hood for locking instead of lugs on the barrel and corresponding machine cuts in the slide from the SIG Sauer 220, the polymer frame of the Heckler and Koch VP70Z, the high capacity magazine of the Browning High Power, the firing pin safety of the Walther P4, and I guess I could go on and on.

The "feature" which was the subject of the Glock v. S&W lawsuit is the feature described in the Glock patent as the "positive guide means," which, if I understand the documents correctly, is the "shelf" on the left side of the Glock frame which prevents the cruciform sear from dropping out of engagement with the lug on the firing pin until the moment of firing, which Glock refers to in its literature as the "drop safety" (since it prevents the sear from "dropping" out of engagement with the lug on the firing pin safety before the moment of firing).

Just why it is called a "positive guide means" in the patent documents is a mystery except that engineers sometimes call a part one thing when designed and another thing when it is presented to the public.

The fact that Glock felt it had a legal claim when you look at the inside of the two pistols was a mystery to me, but then again, I am not a patent attorney, nor am I the inventor of the Glock pistol. I suppose if I were Gaston Glock, I might think my idea had been infringed upon also.

While parts may not interchange, the way the two uppers work is identical. That said, there is nothing in the upper that is really so unique as to deserve a patent.

The lowers on the Glock and the original SIGMA 40F just did not look enough alike or operate the same to my amateur eye to justify a settlement, but sometimes settlement decisions are made based upon other factors (cost of the suit, etc.).

I love my S&W's but went with G-29 for CCW over Sigma for two reasons, looks and it's 10mm of thunder.

Also I like the accuracy and trigger, it can be stripped bare of all parts and put back together by trained blind monkey.

Shoots LSWC with better accuracy then my 610 5" and stays cleaner in the process and lot easier to clean.

Down side is no manual safety unless installed by end user like I have done. I would love a full sized M&P 10 mm and would buy one in a heart beat.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

I've owned 2 Glocks and my 40ve out-performs them all after a few minor mods to the 40.

Thought you weren't supposed to fire lead out of the glocks? Did you have to spend more money for another barrel to do that?

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Pete.

No it's stock barrel. There have been 22 rim-fire rifles with polygonal barrels for years shooting lead in some very high end target rifles. It all about correct powder and proper cleaning.

You don't shoot lead at 1200 to 1600 FPS, I load my hard cast 170's so they will only be in 900 to 1100 range. Makes for pleasant day at the range, and hand and wrist still functional next day.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

"Down side is no manual safety unless installed by end user like I have done." Simply out of curiosity, why would anyone want a manual safety on a pistol? It's not going to fire unless you pull the trigger or fail to properly handle the pistol. And in that case, no safety will prevent accident if one is not safely handling a pistol. Sincerely. brucev.

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<><

Couldn't agree more with this post. I bought the S&W 40VE over the Glock, and I'm glad I did.

It's not as simple as you say, but I will attempt to enlighten you.

First for my part the gun is CCW that is often carried in right front pocket where it would be easy in a emergency to accidentally have the 3.5 lb trigger snagged or pulled. The gun is also a car gun and if not being carried is in a cubby box ender front edge of the Benz and could be accidentally pulled when trying to get it out.

Also all my life I have always had 1911's or other auto's and manual safety is heavy ingrained or trained after 50 plus years and I don't really feel safe w/o the safety. If G-29 had a 10 or 12 lb long throw like my 6 revolvers it would not need the manual for a pocket gun, but it don't and I am trained to have one.

Well that about covers it and hope you have understood where I am coming from. But just remember you are human and sometimes we have lapse of training and that's why every once in a while a LEO trained on Glock will either shoot self or send a round down range by accident when stumbling or the excitement of the moment.

Any more questions?

PS: I was not offended and don't mean to offend but often do when writing. However I am sure if you're not offended someone here will be because this is a S&W forum and I am what some would say praising a Glock. I only own one Glock a G-29 and have put off several years on buying the G-20 waiting for a M&P 10mm, but have about given up and thinking about buying the G-20 this spring or summer.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Thanks for the clarification.

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Pete.

Hey Old Navy. I followed your logic on the preference for the trained usage of a safety on a 1911. Are you also making the point, maybe not on purpose, for why the Sigmas have long strong triggers in DAO? Being an old revolver guy, I remember 30 years ago taking a .357 to a gunsmith and asking him to lighten the trigger. When I got it back, it was silky smooth, but still heavy. When I complained about it he said "son, that is a .357 and you better MEAN it when you pull this trigger."

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SW40VE Sigma
Ruger SR9c

Hey Dude,
That gun is the Pride of The Iraqi Armed Forces!
See also- Rebate!

I own a sigma and have owned 2 glocks and i shoot just as good as i did with the glock.Glock is over priced in my opinion and i no longer own my glocks and i would recommend a sigma to anyone.I like the extra magazines and the lower price. A glock is a good gun but i like my sigma.

For cc one can understand the concern for some sort of a manual safety. Less obvious is the need for a manual safety on a pistol that will be carried in the dash of a car, etc. Nevertheless so carried, it is not unreasonable that one would want a manual safety.

With a lifetime of using autos with manual safeties, to use a striker fired pistol such as the Glock, etc., without a manual safety would be less than satisfactory to many users For those who have less experience with older designs and more experience with the Glock, perhaps trigger discipline and absence of a manual safety is less disconcerting. Using a quality holster of correct design, lack of a manual safety would seem to be of less significance. I agree that a longer revolver like trigger movement would render more safe unholstered carry of the Glock in cc. Perhaps as mentioned in your comment, training is a significant variable.

As I do not currently cc, that issue did not enter into my thought about the need or lack of need for a manual safety. I think that as originally conceived, Browning did not plan for the 1911 to have either a grip or thumb safety. That it did have both reflected the insistence of the US Army. On Brownings Hi-Power, only the thumb safety remained but a magazine safety was added. Perhaps the Glock safe-action design only reflects similar original assumptions of Browning. Personally I would find it hard to conceive of the 1911 design absent the grip and thumb safeties. A SA Mil Spec currently sits on the nightstand... cocked and locked.

All in all, I would imagine that circumstances for the LEO are seldom ideal. My twin-brother (deceased LEO) used to tell me of some of the situations they encountered at the range and in day to day duty. The issue of safety for officers was for him a major concern.

Thank you for responding to my question. Your response is certainly not offensive. Further I can well understand your appreciation of the Glock. It is a very excellent design. I have no experience with the M&P series. From what I've read, many are pleased with its performance. That it has a safety doubtless will help its acceptance by some users.

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<><

Yes I was pointing out the revolver like trigger I encountered when I fired a club members Sigma that was a early model, but that was 2 years ago and only one I have experience with. He was saying it was one thing he and his wife didn't like about the gun (it was wife's) was the long trigger pull, and I told them that was the safety for the pistol. I got a strange look and explained why using my G29 & 610 as training aids and hands on example. Seen them several times since and the lady is pretty good now with her 9mm Sigma. She did have accidental discharge when picking up the Glock off the firing bench the first and only time to shoot the Glock, she shot the dirt below and behind the 25 yard target. She held the gun out and asked for someone to get the gun out of her hand, in a very firm manner using words not allowed here.

Speaking of revolvers I have 4 Dan Wessons and one of the the several differences for the gun over the S&W is a very short and smooth DA trigger pull that often rattles first time shooters that are Smith revolver shooters and for me shooting both I tend to shoot the DW's more because less strain on arthritic hands. From the short easy DA and SA that is better then most 1911's you can buy. The guns are a true wonder and I wish S&W would take up the design, but they had a lot of hand fitting and a S&W made the same way would be in the $1500 to $1800 range for a plain PC revolver. That might not sell well.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Owned one of the first 9VE to hit town many many years ago. Didn't shoot it much but really liked the way it felt in the hand. Local PD started having trouble with their Sigma 9s and got rid of them fast. Grizzled sergeant told me there was a felt washer in the trigger assembly that would disintegrate when exposed to cleaning solvents and render the gun into a club. So i sold mine. Was the felt washer present back then as told to me? If so, is it still there? That would prevent me from buying another.

Oh yeah, this is the first post of a long-time lurker.

Welcome lurker.

Can't answer the question though. Sorry.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

My SW40VE has something inside the trigger spring, kinda looks like felt. I read somewhere that it was to absorb 'spring oscillation'. Doesn't look like the loss of it would affect the operation... it's just a little cylinder of material inside the spring.

I've owned two (.40 and the 9mm) and I've really enjoyed them both. I've had zero FTF or FTE on either guns, even the 9mm which is my most recent. (Aside from some FTFs that turned out to be caused by a weak magazine spring, not the gun) I have about 500 rds through it so far. I am kinda a clean freak though and I strip and clean all of my guns every single time that I shoot them.

The price was not the deciding factor for me but dang man, who can argue with it!?

Fits my hand in a nice way and is a natural pointer. Plus it just has a great feel to it.

The only negatives I've really found with it, and they're not super huge issues, is accessories. I can get a holster made for the Glock 19 at the checkout stand of a 7-11 but trying to find one for a Sigma is pretty tough. YES you can find them on the internet, but no they are not nearly as available as other guns. Same goes for magazines ($40 vs. $20), mag spring replacements, trigger parts, etc.. I honestly think that S&W could clean house with this gun if it had an aftermarket availability like Glock does. And don't even get me started on the fail rail. Come on S&W! lol

The real hang up with the gun I see is most look at it as not pleasing to the eye, granted it not fugly like a Highpoint, but before I would buy the Sigma I would pay the extra $$$ and get a M&P w/o a doubt.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

+1 for appropriate use of the word "fugly". But for something to stick in your BOB that you dont care if it gets rained on or stolen, cant beat a hi-point!

I can't see why anyone would steal one, but guess stupid is as stupid does.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Hahaha! I've heard they make good tire stops for boat trailers.

I like the Sigma better but that is only my opinion.

I have two Glocks, but the Sigma design interests me, so will pick up a used example (inexpensively) in two weeks. Find Sigma's to be attractive looking designs, that get no respect. I realize they had early problems, and carry a bad reputation. Much like my late model Glock G36, that works flawlessly. Cheers

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NRA Certified Instructor

For me, the decision was:

1) It's a Smith & Wesson.

2) I liked the way it felt in my hand.

3) I didn't like the way the Glocks looked and felt. (I have never fired one, though...to be fair.)

4) You cannot beat the price...I just bought my second one tonight, in 9mm this time, at Academy Sports. $299 plus the $50 or 2 free mags coupon.

My personal reasons for buying the Sigma included price but that wasn't all. The Glocks I shot didn't feel good in my hand at all. The Sigma feels and points so much more natural, which translates to much easier to hit your target in a stressful situation. S&Ws warranty and customer service is second to none. My only concern before trying one was the hype about the trigger so I dry fired it several times before I bought it. Sure the pull was heavier and longer but smooth as silk and I was able to keep it aimed at a light switch 30' away while dry firing with ease. Maybe having strong hands from 30 years of construction has something to do with it but I find squeezing the trigger on a Sigma without pulling to be effortless. From a down position I can pull up, aim at a spot on a target and hit it way faster than with any of the Glocks I've fired. Plus the one time I actually witnessed someone using their gun in a defensive situation it was guy with Glock vs guy with steel pipe. Glock fired once, missed then jammed. Guy with Glock lost. It wasn't a pretty picture.

Glock lost me as a customer many years ago when a friend of mine happened to purchase one after all the hype about being able to slip them through airport metal detectors. My Friend bought a Glock 17 when they first came out and a short time later he bought a couple of the mag extenders for it. First day on the range with his modified mags and < 3 shots down range, his mag floor plate, spring, follower and the rest of his ammo were on the ground. After spending 20 minutes trying to find all the pieces (twice), I swore I would never own a Glock.

Now I am aware Glock wised up and started metal lining their mags to prevent them from flying apart like that but the fact that they are still plastic where the floor plate mounts is enough to keep me away from them.

The other reason I won’t own one is due to the way the slide is retained, which is a problem with the Sigma as well for me. If someone grabs your slide and gets a good grip on it, they can take your gun apart before you know it. Give me the old metal frame with the removable takedown pin and you can keep the spring lock. The bad guys won’t be taking mine apart if they happen to get that close.

The slide won't come off unless the striker is de-cocked. Also the slide needs to be retracted slightly before the take down device is engaged for the slide to be removed.

If your ever faced with that situtation and you agressor is someone who has that kind of skill and dexterity... well you best stop messing with ninjas ...

WildCard:

I remember a thread here on S&W forums I read not to long ago where a guy mentioned he had a friend who was a LEO and he showed how the slide of a Glock could be put on the frame of a Sigma and would fire. The two pistols are very much alike in the slide.

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Smith & Wesson Sigma SW9VE

I would have to call BS on that. The sear and trigger arrangement on the sigma is quite different than that of the glock as well as the way the two function.

Yes they are quite similar in overall design, but far from interchangable.

I don't know about that. They look an awful lot alike.

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Smith & Wesson Sigma SW9VE

Love Smith revolvers. Would never own or trust my life to any pistol other than Glock. I have never ever ( that includes thousands upon thousand of NYPD data reports that one ever did not fire the round in the chamber.

I bought a Sigma in 9mm when they first came out because it was hi- capacity and relatively inexpensive. It functioned fine and was accurate but I sold it because I do a lot of shooting at paper and by the time I got down to the 17th round my finger was flat tired out. I bought another Sigma when I found one in 357 Sig. I paid a lot more for that one, they only made those for a couple of months. I don't shoot it much. I have 2 M&P compacts for concealed carry. I bought the 9mm first then a 357 Sig when they became avaliable. I like them both and both are accurate and reliable. They are not a cheap firearm even with the rebates. I don't like Glocks, I admit I haven't shot one but I don't have an urge to do so.

17th round? Mine only holds 16.

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Smith & Wesson Sigma SW9VE

I own both . I've had the glock since 1988 model 17. Very accurate. Read the test results on punishment to this weapon its what sold me. Sigma is also a fine weapon. I do like the feel of it, it fits the hand better. I'm a smith collecter but the glock came first.

I love my S&W's, specially my 610's. But I never leave home w/o my G29SF and go to bed at night with my Para PXT 14-45 Gun Rights 1911 close at hand. Love the thought of 14+1 of 45ACP to confront some bad guy.

May replace the Para this summer with a G20, local pusher says I can have one for $515 OTD anytime I want one. Sure is tempting, I would hate to lose the beautiful custom Para to PD evidence locker over some worthless AH meth-head looking to steel from my house to support his habit.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Your pic don't work but please give it a try and report your findings back to us ...

Mine holds 17. 1 in the chamber and 16 in the magazine. I prefer the Sigma. As stated, better ergonomics and price.

Sigma is a good gun for half the price of a glock.I had 2 glocks got rid of both now have the sigma40ve soon to have sigma9ve. i like the gun.

I don't have a Glock to try changing parts with a Sigma with. I think it would work though.

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Smith & Wesson Sigma SW9VE

To all Sigma shooters, I wish you happy shooting.

The Sigma is not for me. I payed $420 for a G26 NIB plus the same amount for a G19 NIB, and $450 for a G30 LNIB with night sights. The Glocks have been fantastic period (for me). I can justify every penny over the Sigma cost, but that is just MHO. The Sigma I tried was a terrible shooting gun. It did feed, fire, and eject, but that is all it has in common with my Glocks.

Do yourself a favor try em both.

I like my Sigma. Mostly because it is my first handgun. But when I look for a more concealable gun or just another handgun I plan to shoot different models and price won't be as much of a concern with this next gun purchase.