Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols > Smith & Wesson SD & Sigma Pistols
o

Notices

Smith & Wesson SD & Sigma Pistols SD & Sigma Pistols in All Generations


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-29-2015, 03:03 AM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 951
Likes: 682
Liked 301 Times in 210 Posts
Red face SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption

I think that in several posts I have indicated that I believed that the striker was partially cocked during recoil.

I believe that was incorrect and maybe one quick response will let this thread die quickly.

I now believe that recoil does not do anything to the striker and that the "sear" engages the striker lug only after the trigger is released "reset" after the gun is fired. There is clearly a click as the trigger moves forward after releasing the striker, and all of the work done to ready the striker is done when the trigger is pulled.

This is a little hard to demonstrate while dry firing my CA gun because the magazine has to be in for the gun to fire. So, to do the test, I have to dry fire it, rack it again, and while holding the trigger back, release the slide lock. Releasing the trigger then results in a distinct click when the "sear" rides over the bevel on the back of the striker lug.

I should have known this some time back, the first time I took the gun to a range, an outdoor range. It had some nice 4" steel disks on arms and they spun around when you hit them. I decided to see how fast I could fire the gun, but sometimes it didn't fire when I pulled the trigger . . . Reason, I wasn't letting the trigger reset!

My apologies wherever I may have posted incorrectly and just one answer should close this thread.

Thanks,

DAW

===========================
I may have to apologize. I couldn't sleep so I did more tests.

It does appear that the striker is indeed partly set during racking or recoil. The positions of the striker lug and the sear, with the slide off, seems to show that they have to be engaged after a recoil. When relaxed they are far from overlapping. That doesn't explain the reset "click" so someone will have to help me understand what's going on. (I did once understand that the Glock has a partial striker pre-set feature).

Last edited by ou1954; 01-29-2015 at 03:38 AM. Reason: Apology
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-29-2015, 08:51 AM
scwv67's Avatar
scwv67 scwv67 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 961
Likes: 222
Liked 351 Times in 214 Posts
Default

The striker does or should engage the sear when the slide comes forward after firing. That click is the trigger bar re-engaging the sear. The striker on the SD is partially cocked just like a Glock. Pulling the trigger completes the cocking.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-29-2015, 01:15 PM
AnthemBassMan AnthemBassMan is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Tuscarawas County, Ohio!
Posts: 423
Likes: 393
Liked 222 Times in 148 Posts
Default

But on a Glock, I think the striker is fully cocked. The trigger just releases it. The SD is partially cocked, resulting in he heavier trigger pull. Get reset on the SD trigger is pretty much all the way forward.

L8R,
Matt
__________________
SD40-VE owner and proud of it!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-29-2015, 01:19 PM
scwv67's Avatar
scwv67 scwv67 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 961
Likes: 222
Liked 351 Times in 214 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthemBassMan View Post
But on a Glock, I think the striker is fully cocked. The trigger just releases it. The SD is partially cocked, resulting in he heavier trigger pull. Get reset on the SD trigger is pretty much all the way forward.

L8R,
Matt
No, the Glocks are partially cocked strikers. Though they do have a better trigger out of the box.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-29-2015, 04:05 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 951
Likes: 682
Liked 301 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Thanks everyone. Great answers to a somewhat stupid question.

On the other hand, in my defense, I like to know how things work but could come up with two different answers. Also, I had recalled the Glock info and that influenced me.

I will still have to rationalize what happens when I look at the position of the key elements with the slide off.

Maybe, as a minimum, this short thread will be of interest to other owners.

Thanks again,

DAW
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 01-29-2015, 05:48 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 951
Likes: 682
Liked 301 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Well, one more question. I can accept the fact that the click you hear and feel when the trigger reset happens is caused by the sear riding up (down with respect to the earth) and over the ramp on the striker lug, makes sense.

Now my question. In looking at the parts with the slide off, there is a considerable distance between the resting position of the sear and the striker ramp.

So, once the gun is cocked and ready for a trigger reset, what holds the striker (and it's lug) in a position where the sear can ride over and sit down in front of it for final cocking?

I do see a linear cam on the inside of the slide and it might be involved in all this but I really don't know what it does.

[It's sort of like my engineering days. I had some antenna guys in my group and although I could communicate with them and do simple antenna things myself, when it came to more exotic things I always told them they were dealing with "black magic".]

I hope I haven't ran you guys to the point of exasperation. I have seen the Glock animation, which is neat, but some of the finer details of striker loading aren't clear, even there. Help-

Last edited by ou1954; 01-29-2015 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Expand a bit
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-29-2015, 06:39 PM
brchambersjr's Avatar
brchambersjr brchambersjr is offline
US Veteran
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 285
Likes: 122
Liked 106 Times in 68 Posts
Default

When the gun fires and the slide moves rearward the disconnect arm rides across that little hump on the slide and causes the sear to move forward so it is ready to catch the striker lug when the slide locks back up. If you take the slide off and pull the trigger, push down on the disconnect arm and you will see the sear jump forward. As you release the trigger you will see the small ramped part of the trigger bar move forward and resetting on the sear. That is the click that you hear.

Bill
__________________
Remember the Alamo!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-29-2015, 06:55 PM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 607
Likes: 440
Liked 121 Times in 94 Posts
Default

With the slide off push down some on the prong that rides over the striker disconnect, then pull the trigger.

Then lift your finger off of the prong and release the trigger, you'll get the idea of how it works.

3
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-29-2015, 07:52 PM
JWH321 JWH321 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 287
Likes: 3
Liked 135 Times in 90 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hounds View Post
With the slide off push down some on the prong that rides over the striker disconnect, then pull the trigger.

Then lift your finger off of the prong and release the trigger, you'll get the idea of how it works.

3
Absolutely -- great advice.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-29-2015, 08:21 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 951
Likes: 682
Liked 301 Times in 210 Posts
Default

What I was finally able to see is that if the trigger is not released after the gun is fired or the slide is racked, the trigger bar does not re-connect to the sear, however, the sear is once more holding the prong on the striker in a partially set position.

That is the mystery I couldn't solve, just exactly what was holding the striker back.

I now see that what happens when you let the trigger do a "reset" is that the linear cam on the slide lets the trigger bar pop up and once more engage the sear which is still holding the prong on the striker. That little pop up (click) is what you feel and hear as the "trigger reset".

The sear itself is what is holding the striker back, it just can't be activated until the trigger link is released to re-connect with it.

I was wrongly looking for some magic holder and there is none, it's the sear all the time!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-30-2015, 10:01 AM
brchambersjr's Avatar
brchambersjr brchambersjr is offline
US Veteran
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 285
Likes: 122
Liked 106 Times in 68 Posts
Default

ou1954, That is correct.

Bill
__________________
Remember the Alamo!

Last edited by brchambersjr; 01-30-2015 at 10:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-30-2015, 03:22 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 951
Likes: 682
Liked 301 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brchambersjr View Post
ou1954, That is correct.

Bill
Thanks - I still don't how the sear gets back up from it's rotated back/down position but clearly it does.

In any case I won't be waking up in the middle of the night and taking the gun open and trying to peak inside it with a flashlight.

My wife is very happy about that but still thinks I am compulsive.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-30-2015, 04:07 PM
brchambersjr's Avatar
brchambersjr brchambersjr is offline
US Veteran
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 285
Likes: 122
Liked 106 Times in 68 Posts
Default

The disconnect arm is pushed down by the little hump on the bottom of the slide as the the slide moves back during recoil and in turn releases the sear from the little incline hook on the trigger bar.

Bill

IMG_2632.jpg
__________________
Remember the Alamo!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-30-2015, 05:46 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 951
Likes: 682
Liked 301 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brchambersjr View Post
The disconnect arm is pushed down by the little hump on the bottom of the slide as the the slide moves back during recoil and in turn releases the sear from the little incline hook on the trigger bar.

Bill

Attachment 182741
Yup, I had just realized that. That linear cam allows the sear to pop back up and catch the striker lug as the slide moves forward. You can even see that if you hold the trigger when you rack the slide from a non-cocked condition. Takes a good flashlight and some careful looking to see it. In my case, the CA version, you have to have a magazine in and release the slide while still holding the trigger. It's all very simple once you understand the process.

I was assuming that cam did something during backward movement when it is designed to do it's job during recovery.

Thanks for the help. You helped cap off the whole process.

Now for an afternoon nap.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 01-30-2015, 05:47 PM
DAinTX DAinTX is offline
Member
SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption SD_VE trigger reset, wrong assumption  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Family ranch in Texas
Posts: 470
Likes: 6
Liked 167 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
My wife is very happy about that but still thinks I am compulsive.
Can't imagine why.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New trigger reset in the 45s yet? Nakanokalronin Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 6 12-25-2013 10:38 PM
M&P 15-22p trigger reset Chrisgt2 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 6 08-11-2013 11:39 AM
M&P trigger reset Z Elk 5 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 12 05-01-2013 04:10 PM
trigger reset? k-dog Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 9 03-08-2013 02:01 PM
Trigger won't reset...Help hunter16 S&W-Smithing 6 02-12-2012 05:29 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:03 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)