remington umc 180 gr range packs (250 rounds)? i have 5 boxes and went shooting for a bit today, well the first two mags, 28 rounds, were flawless, then the next mag, first shot was FTE, drop mag and clear, reload,2 more shots, FTE. 28 shots maybe 6 FTE, stopped shooting at that point. i have probably 800 rounds through this gun, wwb and federal from wally world, both i believe are 165 gr. these remington's are 180 gr, are they too powerful for this gun? im pretty religious about cleaning, doesnt matter if i shoot 1 or 100, i clean after each use, so its not a dirty gun issue. i came home and took the barrel out and dropped 50+ rounds into the chamber to see if any were sticking, not one did, any suggestions, are the casing expanding too much at 180 gr, anybody use this stuff? sh1tty thing is i have 1250 rounds of this stuff that i stock piled and ran out of everything else so i took this **** out and got a big surprise. dont stock pile without feeding a bunch first to make sure your gun likes the taste, lesson learned, the hard way as usual. is this the reasoning for the problem though? thanks

I have shot a couple of thousand of it with no problems. Probably 8-10 boxes of the 250. There are a lot of people who don't like it but I love it. For the money I think it's a great deal. Only complaint I have is it shoots dirtier than some other factory ammo but, like you I clean after every trip so it hasn't been a big deal.

I have shot about 1k rounds of it through my HP .40, and probably about 300 through my SW40VE with no problems at all. About middle of the road as far as dirty, not as bad as Magtech, not as clean as Federal. Never had any FTE in either weapon, had one hangup (cant call it a stovepipe, it was perfectly front to back in the ejection port!) in the SW40VE but it is still in break-in I guess with less than 500 rounds through it.

Shot that exact ammo for the first 250 in my SW40VE.
Zero issues.

I had some in my 9ve and the bullet was pushing in the brass about 1/4 inch. I shoot the walmart 100 pack winchesters almost all thee time.

__________________
The kool-aid Sigma drinker

just want to make sure im using the correct term, fired it and the casing was sitting in the chamber but sticking out just a little bit and the next round was barely trying to feed into that one, took more force then usual to release the magazine, then it popped right out with no problem, that is a failure to extract correct, why does the casing pop out so easy once i remove the magazine, like i said i have about 800 through it of the fed and wwb with zero issues, now i have dang near 6 in a row in 2 mins, im puzzled???? it was raher hot out but then again ive got it pretty hot before and rapid fired 2 mags at 14 each, this was slow fire when it happened, any suggestions?

Just a thought... but do you keep your mags fully loaded all the time?

one of them but this has been gone over a million times that its okay to do this? its the load and empty, (compress and release) thats bad for them? plus only one is loaded all the time at home, and with the 6 fte's it was 2 different mags so cant be that, i dont think? plus i switch the mag that is loaded regularly. thank you though

did something happen to the extractor or ejector? If either one of them got bent or broken or even crudded up, that could be your problem.

I can't imagine that there is an incompatibility issue with the gun and this ammo.

I wont even pretend to be a gunsmith, but I know my grandfather was having this issue with his Glock 23C... but only after being out in the sun and clearing the mags once or twice. (he also kept his mags fully loaded) Replacing the mag springs ended up being the fix.

Might try getting in touch with frank at LSG and asking his opinion.

Try holding the gun tighter. If that doesn't work change the recoil spring to a heavier spring.

FTE is commonly used as failure to eject, not extract. If it is leaving it in the chamber, it is usually only one of two things, extractor or buildup of carbon in the chamber. Sigma's have been known to chunk extractors.

I'm not a gunsmith, but....My best guess is a broken, or damaged extractor. First remove the slide, put a round under the extractor hook, flat against the breech face. If the round won't stay there, the extractor is damaged, or sticking. First check to make sure it isn't just dirty. Carbon or brass shavings could be causing it to bind. If you feel comfortable remove the extractor and spring, and thoroughly clean the extractor, the spring, and extractor recesses in the slide. Examine the extractor, especially the hook for damage. Compare it with another extractor if you have one available. Reassemble. If you are not sure how to remove the extractor, then clean it the best you can with a brush and solvent. The extractor should move freely without binding.


If you don't feel comfortable doing this have a gunsmith check it, or call S&W.

well i clean my guns ALL the time, so i doubt its that but as far as the extractor, does anybody have a close up detailed pic they can post, mine looks sharp on the edge that grabs the casing, but it doesnt look even? i took a round and stuck it in there and it held it, and when i clean i take it ALL apart and clean it all really good, but like i said it doesnt look completly even, is this normal? how much is this part? im gonna go get a box of wwb from wally world and try it fri and try the umc again, what are the odds its the ammo? where would i get this part, would it be replaced for free, since the gun is under warranty, i believe, would i have to send it in or just call them and tell them its broke? this sucks. thanks everyone

are they not the same thing, sorry for the noob question, which one is mine doing, its like halfway out of the chamber and the next round is jamming the casing up making the slide lock back. thanks

Didn't mean to imply your guns were dirty, but unless you detail strip the slide you can't get all the crud under the extractor.

Here are a couple of pics of a new Sigma extractor...

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	IMG_0717.jpg (26.1 KB, 60 views)

yeah thats what mine looks like, its a relativly new gun, so if thats not broken, and the gun is clean, than what else could be goin on here?

1. Bad magazine. Mark them so you can tell them apart (1,2,3..) See if one mag is causing the problem. Round jumping out under recoil and binding up extraction/ejection.

2. Bad ejector, not ejecting the empty and allowing it to be pushed back into the chamber.

3. Low power rounds, not fully cycling the slide, case never pulled completely out of the chamber.

mags should be good, they are pretty new, never keep full, and alternate every month so one is always empty, it happened on both mags?... whats the ejector look like, i thought the next round is what hit the casing out?... low power rounds? i have been shooting 165 gr, these ones causing the problem are 180 gr. are there any other tests i can safely do at home, (im not big on putting rounds in the chamber until im safe to shoot, AT ALL)? if i pull the pin out, is it safe to say i cant fire a round if i try cycling a few? to be honest i dont think id even be comfy with JUST removing the pin so nevermind, gonna be at the range tomorrow so i need some ideas cause i wont have access to computer while im there so i need a list of things i can try, keeping in mind i only have the 2 mags and it happened with both of them? sorry to be a noob about this, but i cant understand not having 1 problem with 800 rounds then i switch the brand and have dang near 6 in a row, i just cant look at the gun as being the prob, well i hope to find out tomorrow??? thanks for ALL the help guys.

9c, the terms are close but not the same... a failure to extract term usually refers to the spent brass being left in the chamber, like as if the brass swelled to the sides and the extractor key was unable to maintain it's grip enough to force it out. Another instance might be the extractor lip being damaged, or the spring broken or crud built up behind it, anything that prevents the extractor from being able to get a good grip on the brass and pull it out.

Failure to eject could also point towards the extractor being weak. Basically, when the slide cycles back, the spent brass being held in place by the extractor, it comes back till the brass comes in contact with the metal lever that projects forward through the slide, which tips it out and away. If you pull your slide back (empty weapon of course) you will see it project through. There are several reasons that this can happen. Anything the slows the slide to the point where it doesn't fully cycle such as damaged parts, underpowered ammo, etc. are what you usually see.

I would try different kinds of ammo. My SW40VE doesn't like some brands at all. Others it eats with no problem whatsoever. It detests WWB and Magtech Guardian Golds. The green box Remington is usually considered their "WWB", pretty much range ammo only.

Empty brass in the chamber is NEVER a magazine issue.
Just sayin.

Fails to extract is typically a bad/broken/dirty/chipped extractor, or the spring that powers it has crapped out. Sometimes it's the ammo.

I recall years ago Ayoob talking about S&W extractors and Remington ammo being a problem when mixed due to how Remington makes their rims, I'll have to see if I can find that article reference.

somebody on here said the extractor should be loose, like as in easily moved with your finger tip? if so mine doesnt, but i can get it to move with the tip of a small flat head driver, could this be an issue? i see the long narrow protrusion when slide is pulled back, is this whats known as the ejector, so its not the next round that forces it out? my 40ve LOVES wwb, and no probs with federal, this is the first time using this remington stuff, and i see all these issues, just makes me think its the ammo, my extractor looks EXACTLY like the "new" one posted earlier. well if i load a full mag of wwb and rapid fire it with no problems then have an issue with the umc, i gues i have my answer, if nobody has issues with this stuff and my gun doesnt like it, how do i sell it, because i dont know anybody local who would want it, so it would be a matter of shipping it, or does it have to be ftf sale only. sorry to swerve of course, im just worried i have 1250 unusable rounds sitting here, back to subject does anybody know how much these pieces cost and were to get them (extractor/springs etc...) if they are the reason for the problem? im also was wondering if im not thinking about this right, the xxxgr. is the power behind it right? i only ask to make sure because i said i went from 165gr to 180gr and people keep saying possible underpowered round, wouldnt 180gr be more powerful than 165gr? i love to ask questions, the only way to know what you are talking about is to ask questions, right? thanks everyone!

The ejector is that shiny pin you see when the slide has been locked back and the magazine has been removed. Should be about 1/2" long and point directly forward. It's what the case bumps up against when the slide cycles back to eject it. The next round may give it a slight bump, but is not necessary for ejection. If you don't see the ejector, or it's bent then that's your problem!

"New" mag doesn't mean "good" magazine. Damaged feed lips or a weak spring could allow the next round to move forward/up under recoil. It could possibly bind up the action.

If you don't think you would "be comfy with removing the pin" then you didn't remove the extractor to reach all of the crud that could be under it and preventing it from properly grabbing the case.

Low power means that there's not enough powder to provide enough energy to cycle the slide. Nothing to do with the bullet weight (165 or 180 grains). Try another box, or different brand of ammo. If that works OK, then call Remington, and tell them what is going on. They should replace the ammo.

If you have the same problem with a different brand of ammo, then it's time for you to call Smith & Wesson and have them look at it for you under warranty.

Have a good day, and be safe!

no i didnt mean i dont feel comfy removing the spring, ive done that and everything else, i COMPLETLY strip it to clean it, what i meant was i dont feel comfy ONLY removing the pin and cycling LIVE rounds through the gun when im not somewhere that the gun can safley discharge. i have removed the extractoe and spring and firing pin and all that to clean so thats why i didnt think that could be the problem. i just went to wally world and picked up 100 round pack of wwb, so tomorrow i should have my answer. p.s. my ejector looks just fine as well. what do you think remington would do for me? also im still confused IF i do have to sell all this ammo. and should it move freely by my finger (extractor) or should it be a little more stiff than that? should i somehow check the mag by maybe slapping the bottom, i smacked the bottom of the mag with 10 out of 14 rounds in it and the second smack it moved forward a bit, is this normal? the pin/spring that hold the extractor in place, the spring end should be in the gun by the extractor right, maybe i replaced this backwards, would this affect anything? thanks

the only thing i can add to this is it sounds to me like a bad batch of ammo. I have shot federal 116gr fmj's for as long as i have had my gun and never really had problems with them. About two weeks ago i bought 4 boxes and went out to the range. Low and behold about every 7th round would screw up from the one box. tried the other boxes and all was fine. so this might be the case here. I would try another box and see if it keeps happening.

New and busted extractor.





New part was bought from NUMRICH as S&W would not sell me one and Frank told me I purchased junk. Send the pistol in BS!!!

New part is working fine.

If the extractor is clean and in good shape. Measure up the ammo to see if it's in spec. Also examine the spent brass. The spent brass can tell you stuff also.

yeah mine looks even newer than that. as far as the spring/pin for the extractor, do i have it in right?

just looked it up, the spring end goes towards the back, i had it backwards,DUH.... would this have anything to do with it, hopefully? pure logic says no though.

Uh, yeah? You are saying that you had the hook end at the rear? Of course that would present a problem, since the spring end isn't machined to grip the rim of the brass properly. When properly installed you shouldn't be able to move it with a fingertip at all.

How did you get it to work/together with it in backwards? Why did it function at all? I just tore 2 down and they do not work that way! I am curious! Did you have it backwards or upside down? As for the rest of the questions:
1, If it is in the chamber it did not extract
2, If it is in the receiver it did not eject open end towards the sky->stovepipe
3, If it is in the magazine-----VOODOO
Causes- dirt, breakage
Mags- My wife just got a custom gun- beautiful except that it stovepiped the last round every time!!! Put the same mag in box stock gun , it worked fine???The only mag that I have 100% trust in is the ones I just emptied!! I rotate out 6 carry mags every 6 mo, is it needed?-prob not just habit. I do empty every mag and reload it each mo because I have seen them shift around from being carried. At the end of the year I shoot all of the carry ammo and open 2 new boxes from same case.- Temp, weather, being chambered could cause a problem???? I shoot the 93 rounds and smile.
I carry 165 gr win ranger the original with black bullet.
135,165,180 gr will probably have different velocities, and foot/pounds but one is not STRONGER than the other.
Selling ammo: FTF or on line- get a copy of driver license, buyer 21 or older, statement that person is not prohibited from purchasing or possessing this ammo. Have them sign and date it. It is illegal to ship to NJ, CA and poss other states, EZ to check ammo laws. It is ILLEGAL to ship via US mail!!!UPS will be about 12-20$ depending on where its going. It is not worth saving 5$ to ship USPS instead of UPS- Lawyers are expensive!!!

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

IMHO if the ammo won't cycle the gun and other ammo will (e.g. Winchester Whitebox) then the ammo is defective. Call Remington, explain the situation. Pretty sure they will replace it.

If you do try to sell it please be up front with the buyers and let them know why you are selling it.

He said he had the extractor in backwards, Marlin...the ammo is fine

the way he was talking it sounds like he had the spring in backwards.

I'm waiting for the next range report....

Waiting for range report also. And still curious as if it was extractor or extractor spring/assembly ?? Backwards??

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

At this point Im not sure he has a Sigma...

ok ok im sorry i got married this weekend and just got back, yes i have a sigma, no it wasnt the extractor that was backwards im talking about when you take the black plastic piece out of the back of the slide to remove the firing pin, there is another "rod" in there that will shoot out and it has a spring on the end of it, it presses against the extractor, thats what i had in backwards, as far as range report, i filled 14 rounds of wwb (800+ rounds with NO problems) in one mag and 14 rounds of "problem ammo", i first shot rapid fire "problem ammo" with NO problem, then rapid fire wwb and sure enough, same problem half way thru, it wasnt doing it as frequently but none the less its now happening with good ammo, but EVERYTHING looks new, ***? i dont know what to do, before i went out, i SCRUBBED EVERYTHING clean and lubed it, so now what? as far as selling it i dont think i need to now but i would never scam somebody and not tell them, karma can be a *****. sorry to keep everone waiting, thanks for all the replies, also again where can i get these parts and how much do they run, if its under warranty, is this something that should be covered if so would they just send me the parts or am i shipping it off? this might end up being a long thread... lol

also i dont know if it matters but i did the "trigger job" and removed the pigtail spring so when i cleaned it this last time i put it back in to return it to completely stock, if it matters??? thanks

personally i would call smith and explain to them whats going on. If your extractor is in like new condition there may be another underlying issue.

yeah im gonna call them this week, anybody got a number for them off the top of your head???? i REALLY just dont want to send my gun in the mail, well i guess i might be sleepin with the mossberg for a while...lmao

the info for the texas warranty center is:
LSG Manufaturing
10059 hwy 1476
Comanche, TX 76442
(325) 885-2700

When you get her back let us know what the problem was, I'm betting on the extractor. Maybe we should start a poll, extractor, ejector, ammo.....

after it did it with the wwb i HIGHLY doubt ammo is the culprit. i keep putting the spent casing in the chamber and racking it back, it pops out perfectly EVERY time, is it possible heat could be an issue? i ask because ive noticed the first time i shoot, all is well, it isnt until at least one full mag is shot through it that the issue is present? the thing that gets me is i have put 3 mags in a row rapid fire through it with no issues in the past so one mag isnt getting it hot enough to jam up like that is it? all internals look brand new, and again would this be something covered by warranty, ive got to dig out my paperwork to see date bought and warranty info, i think its only a year if i remember correctly, and it might be past that, this sucks.

Think we've beat it to death. Lifetime warranty. Call S&W

hey all, its been a long time, anyways im FINALLY gettin around to sendin it in. THOUGHT i found out the problem as being limp wristing, cause everything was fine for about 300 rounds, didnt have one problem, then one day it started back up again, i watched my buddy shoot it and noticed the casings are coming out at wierd angles and speeds. not like when there is no problems and they come out 3-4 oclock at the same speed and go about the same distance. now they are coming out at 5 oclock, not as far, one hit him square in the face. a few dang near fell out the top at like 7 oclock. a few flew over his LEFT shoulder, a bit different then going straight out the side in the other direction. well ill let you know how it goes, im waiting for my prepaid shipping box now. i just thought it was wierd how it stopped and then started happening again. ill let ya know. have a good day